PG Thread: The Tank Goes On

[Kinglee]

An outside the first few games, dude has been getting destroyed on defense

Destroyed?

Beaten sometimes? Needs some work on angles at times? Yes

Destroyed?

Once again, give me a break.

I know you want to be seen as some unbias arbiter of talent, but basically you relentlessly bashed KP and now that he tore his ACL, you've slid the same routine over to Frank. Sure KP has flaws and sure, Frank has more - I figure that would be true at 3 years younger and a rookie, and it just might yet mean it's because he's not good, but geeze, ease up on the routine.

In fact, it would have been more fun if you just continued to rail on KP and talked about how "his ligaments are weaker than dried rubber bands" or something.

Why when someone state more negatives than positives about a player because he does more negatives than positives is it considered bashing? We just grabbed a whole new pg because the kid stinks. Hahn and Clyde say this OFTEN. He was a Phil pick, dude has no future here. We don't have to protect him like he's going to be our kid that we are watching grow up.

Roberson without the defense or dumber Eric Snow. What's the proper comparison?

Im fact, instead of quoting me and trying to attack everything I say, tell me your thoughts on the kid? What you think his potential is and who you compare him to?

[dakomish23]

[dakomish23]

I don't know what people expect to see. Frank is going to look worse with less talent around him. He should have been playing with the starters more months ago. He WAS for a few games. Then it stopped. He is not ready to be a starting player. So what. Now he should get the minutes and work through it. Study film of what he's doing wrong and what he's doing right. There shouldn't be ANY pressure at this point. That's on Jeff. He played with poise when he first came out and had EVERY ONE OF YOU EATING CROW WILLINGLY. That thread was comical. He's going to struggle. If he's going to succeed he has to work through it. There is no one here yet who needs more work. There's no reason he shouldn't get it. We're not winning another game with Westbrook at point guard.

Also...Toronto is a good team with the best bench in the league. Not a good time to play 4 D Leaguers with Frank.

It's going to take a while for this kid IF he ever puts it together. Giving up on a kid who's barely 19 is silly. Especially in this environment. With Jeff pulling him when he's playing well early and putting him in an hour later.

There is no reason to play any vets at the 1 or 2 except Timmy. Jeff needs to stop with the all vet lineup trying to win games. Enough dude. Mix in vets to help keep the kids together. Let the kids get most of the minutes. Period.

I think GreenArrow can stop counting now. On the road to 23-59!!! Its almost a guarantee we don't win another game. Look at our guard situation. It's a mess. Our defense. 3pt defense. Roster. I mean....who are we beating? We lost to Atlanta with KP! CHI beat us!! Now we are probably the worst roster in the NBA.

Fully agreed. Thanks for stating the obvious.
I don’t know what people are expecting.
Every year the same Bs. Some are already cheering for “winning a trade” with Denver while the guy we acquired didn’t even play a minute for the team. As if you could judge a trade the day you’re doing it.

I don’t know how many games and seasons we need to lose for people to realize how far this team is from competing. They make trades which are pointless. Just pointless. Emanuel Mudiay ? Dude lost minutes on a well coached team as his rookie contract progressed.
We are not a well coached team. We make bizarre selection and substitutions that don’t translate to wins, and confuse the hell out of our players. We don’t grow our young talent. Some we even trade away, and sign back at big money because of the development job a competing organization did.

The team looked better in November than in January. That says something when your talents showcase their skills and win games early on, and you regress throughout the season. We didn’t lose KP at 32-23, but at 23-32.

You don’t fix that by trading 2nd round picks, trading away a big talent who didn’t get an opportunity, and acquiring a guard who’s been a bust his first years in the league.
Guys who think we can fix that doing so, and then tank patiently, waiting for the draft to happen and get a high pick, are fooling themselves, and have most likely fooled themselves since Dave Checketts left, which was the last time the Knicks were not the joke of headlines.

We tanked and hit a home run with Porzingis, and have yet to show even a .500 record for it. A Doncic or whatever won’t do better. Karl Anthony Towns wouldn’t have done better in such environment. And now, even when we pick in the lottery, we don’t play the kid with our best unit in favor of journeymen.

We are due to suck and suck and suck again for a very very long time, just like we have been sucking the past 20 years. Keep buying that if you like, I can’t keep it up and watch this. It’s just too hard to do but it will be even harder to find another team to root for.

I get your point but, calm down man. The reason they have sucked is because they have yet to properly rebuild through the draft in forever. This is only 4 months into the 1st rebuild in my life. I'm not in a rush to condemn it to failure. Patience for a reason is better than patience because Knicks. You know?

KP is our Hinkie pick. Injured in year one of the rebuild. Frank needs a year or 2 to develop(if ever). Timmy is an ok piece if he gets this slump out of his system. Mudiay another young project we may hit on. Kornet has potential. We have all our 1sts and we have 2nd round picks to go with them.

We should be in or near top 5 pick this year. Next year we won't be much better. I'll let it play out before I lose patience. I'm not happy with Jeff right now. I'm not too convinced the FO is any good but, they haven't done anything too terrible just yet. I'm riding the tank and looking forward to watching kids play and develop. The last few times we were in the lottery...we were trying to get to the playoffs. The other times...we had no picks. Its a long process unless you get extremely lucky. We have at least 2 years before we see the playoffs. People need to buckle up and take the bumpy ride. Or put on an apron and watch the Food Network instead.

Yep. Let’s let this play out. We tanked for KP. We got Frank. If we land one of the top 5 guys, I think we’ll start to turn the corner.

It’s going to take some time for this to build up. First thing to do - play the kids you have now together and the majority of the time.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Fully agreed. Thanks for stating the obvious.
I don’t know what people are expecting.
Every year the same Bs. Some are already cheering for “winning a trade” with Denver while the guy we acquired didn’t even play a minute for the team. As if you could judge a trade the day you’re doing it.

I don’t know how many games and seasons we need to lose for people to realize how far this team is from competing. They make trades which are pointless. Just pointless. Emanuel Mudiay ? Dude lost minutes on a well coached team as his rookie contract progressed.
We are not a well coached team. We make bizarre selection and substitutions that don’t translate to wins, and confuse the hell out of our players. We don’t grow our young talent. Some we even trade away, and sign back at big money because of the development job a competing organization did.

The team looked better in November than in January. That says something when your talents showcase their skills and win games early on, and you regress throughout the season. We didn’t lose KP at 32-23, but at 23-32.

You don’t fix that by trading 2nd round picks, trading away a big talent who didn’t get an opportunity, and acquiring a guard who’s been a bust his first years in the league.
Guys who think we can fix that doing so, and then tank patiently, waiting for the draft to happen and get a high pick, are fooling themselves, and have most likely fooled themselves since Dave Checketts left, which was the last time the Knicks were not the joke of headlines.

We tanked and hit a home run with Porzingis, and have yet to show even a .500 record for it. A Doncic or whatever won’t do better. Karl Anthony Towns wouldn’t have done better in such environment. And now, even when we pick in the lottery, we don’t play the kid with our best unit in favor of journeymen.

We are due to suck and suck and suck again for a very very long time, just like we have been sucking the past 20 years. Keep buying that if you like, I can’t keep it up and watch this. It’s just too hard to do but it will be even harder to find another team to root for.

I get your point but, calm down man. The reason they have sucked is because they have yet to properly rebuild through the draft in forever. This is only 4 months into the 1st rebuild in my life. I'm not in a rush to condemn it to failure. Patience for a reason is better than patience because Knicks. You know?

KP is our Hinkie pick. Injured in year one of the rebuild. Frank needs a year or 2 to develop(if ever). Timmy is an ok piece if he gets this slump out of his system. Mudiay another young project we may hit on. Kornet has potential. We have all our 1sts and we have 2nd round picks to go with them.

We should be in or near top 5 pick this year. Next year we won't be much better. I'll let it play out before I lose patience. I'm not happy with Jeff right now. I'm not too convinced the FO is any good but, they haven't done anything too terrible just yet. I'm riding the tank and looking forward to watching kids play and develop. The last few times we were in the lottery...we were trying to get to the playoffs. The other times...we had no picks. Its a long process unless you get extremely lucky. We have at least 2 years before we see the playoffs. People need to buckle up and take the bumpy ride. Or put on an apron and watch the Food Network instead.

Yep. Let’s let this play out. We tanked for KP. We got Frank. If we land one of the top 5 guys, I think we’ll start to turn the corner.

It’s going to take some time for this to build up. First thing to do - play the kids you have now together and the majority of the time.

We backed into a Hinkie sort of. He drafted injured players that missed the first year for what...3 straight drafts? Or is it 4 now? We just started the youth movement with KP and Frank etc. KP is down for a year. Frank is a project. We have Mudiay etc. It takes time. We have to draft well. We have to move Noah. Yada yada yada. It's only the beginning.

[thebuzzardman]

An outside the first few games, dude has been getting destroyed on defense

Destroyed?

Beaten sometimes? Needs some work on angles at times? Yes

Destroyed?

Once again, give me a break.

I know you want to be seen as some unbias arbiter of talent, but basically you relentlessly bashed KP and now that he tore his ACL, you've slid the same routine over to Frank. Sure KP has flaws and sure, Frank has more - I figure that would be true at 3 years younger and a rookie, and it just might yet mean it's because he's not good, but geeze, ease up on the routine.

In fact, it would have been more fun if you just continued to rail on KP and talked about how "his ligaments are weaker than dried rubber bands" or something.

Why when someone state more negatives than positives about a player because he does more negatives than positives is it considered bashing? We just grabbed a whole new pg because the kid stinks. Hahn and Clyde say this OFTEN. He was a Phil pick, dude has no future here. We don't have to protect him like he's going to be our kid that we are watching grow up.

Roberson without the defense or dumber Eric Snow. What's the proper comparison?

Im fact, instead of quoting me and trying to attack everything I say, tell me your thoughts on the kid? What you think his potential is and who you compare him to?

I"ve said about a million times I see his ceiling as a somewhere between Hill and Derek Harper. I've also said he just might turn out to not be good, but I'm not even to begin thinking about saying that until midway next year, and really, more like midway of year 3.
Seems like a long leash? Yeah, because he's 19. And I've also said many times that even the "good" version of Frank won't be a terribly exciting player, but one who is steady, plays within himself, runs a team, knocks down jumpers, and drives enough to keep his jumper honest. Which is why I don't even put his ceiling at just Derek Harper, but take it down a bit to George Hill. Or like Hill with Derek Harpers hops. I think he'll be a no flash, steady player of the kind you want in the rotation on a good team. Maybe. Unlike other posters here, I'm not Miss Cleo. I think this is where he'll go but he could be Landry Fields with an outrageous accent.

I mean, there are posters on here now amped about Mudiay but this guy looked like hot garbage 2 years ago. He looks MUCH better than he did. Please don't argue "well, he's more athletic, this that". Just the simple fact that Mudiay looked raw 2 years ago and now he doesn't. Might mean Frank goes from raw and untalented to unraw and untalented, but I still hold that some players need a couple of years. It's been 1/2 a year so far.

[prophet_of_rage]

Jeff almost got a tech for arguing about Frank's blown layup, it's nobody's fault the kid is not NBA ready.

That was ridiculous. Like he flatout missed, wtf was he arguing

Trying to motivate and protect his player. Coaches argue calls sometimes not because they believe they are wrong but to show to players they have their backs and keep them engaged. You really think a travel call is enough to get a coach a tech? No, the coach will deliberately get the tech to fire up the team.

[NewEra]

Kornet > WHG

THJ is really NOT that dude

Lance and Jack needs to go away where Noah is

[Nazrmohamed]

Lmao

[dakomish23]

Lmao

Give me any of

Doncic
Bagley
Bomba
Ayton
Porter

Don't let this season be a waste. We already threw away so much developmental time for the kids.

[Nazrmohamed]

Destroyed?

Beaten sometimes? Needs some work on angles at times? Yes

Destroyed?

Once again, give me a break.

I know you want to be seen as some unbias arbiter of talent, but basically you relentlessly bashed KP and now that he tore his ACL, you've slid the same routine over to Frank. Sure KP has flaws and sure, Frank has more - I figure that would be true at 3 years younger and a rookie, and it just might yet mean it's because he's not good, but geeze, ease up on the routine.

In fact, it would have been more fun if you just continued to rail on KP and talked about how "his ligaments are weaker than dried rubber bands" or something.

Why when someone state more negatives than positives about a player because he does more negatives than positives is it considered bashing? We just grabbed a whole new pg because the kid stinks. Hahn and Clyde say this OFTEN. He was a Phil pick, dude has no future here. We don't have to protect him like he's going to be our kid that we are watching grow up.

Roberson without the defense or dumber Eric Snow. What's the proper comparison?

Im fact, instead of quoting me and trying to attack everything I say, tell me your thoughts on the kid? What you think his potential is and who you compare him to?

I"ve said about a million times I see his ceiling as a somewhere between Hill and Derek Harper. I've also said he just might turn out to not be good, but I'm not even to begin thinking about saying that until midway next year, and really, more like midway of year 3.
Seems like a long leash? Yeah, because he's 19. And I've also said many times that even the "good" version of Frank won't be a terribly exciting player, but one who is steady, plays within himself, runs a team, knocks down jumpers, and drives enough to keep his jumper honest. Which is why I don't even put his ceiling at just Derek Harper, but take it down a bit to George Hill. Or like Hill with Derek Harpers hops. I think he'll be a no flash, steady player of the kind you want in the rotation on a good team. Maybe. Unlike other posters here, I'm not Miss Cleo. I think this is where he'll go but he could be Landry Fields with an outrageous accent.

I mean, there are posters on here now amped about Mudiay but this guy looked like hot garbage 2 years ago. He looks MUCH better than he did. Please don't argue "well, he's more athletic, this that". Just the simple fact that Mudiay looked raw 2 years ago and now he doesn't. Might mean Frank goes from raw and untalented to unraw and untalented, but I still hold that some players need a couple of years. It's been 1/2 a year so far.

I don't know that Frank is raw though. Raw to me is about great athleticism and maybe even having scoring ability but just not understanding nuances of the game. Frank to me knows allot of nuances, he's fundamentally sound. He's just severely lacking in the understanding that in this league it's your responsibility as a PG to show out. Nobody wants a caretaker at pg besides maybe Phil Jackson and Larry Brown and they are both unemployed by the league.

I don't mind mistakes, I don't mind missed shots. I can't stand the timid nature, the caretakers mentality. He's too robotic

[Nazrmohamed]

Lmao

Give me any of

Doncic
Bagley
Bomba
Ayton
Porter

Don't let this season be a waste. We already threw away so much developmental time for the kids.

I'd add in Trae Young and Jaren Jackson. But hell yeah

[Dr. Detfink]

Knicks gotta tank REAL hard in order to get in that top 5 worst. Right now, they are soooo mired in mediocrity with 10th-11th pick. FU'K you Mills and Perry, competitive my arse!

[shtolky]

Lmao

Give me any of

Doncic
Bagley
Bomba
Ayton
Porter

Don't let this season be a waste. We already threw away so much developmental time for the kids.

I'd add in Trae Young and Jaren Jackson. But hell yeah

Add the Bridges boys and Wendell Carter too. The draft is loaded and worst case we should be able to add a very good player. With some luck maybe a future superstar.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Give me any of

Doncic
Bagley
Bomba
Ayton
Porter

Don't let this season be a waste. We already threw away so much developmental time for the kids.

I'd add in Trae Young and Jaren Jackson. But hell yeah

Add the Bridges boys and Wendell Carter too. The draft is loaded and worst case we should be able to add a very good player. With some luck maybe a future superstar.

I remember thinking we'd be picking mid teens or later. That we'd be lucky to crack top 10 and wouldn't sniff top 5. That was back in November early December. Wow how things have changed.

[thebuzzardman]

Why when someone state more negatives than positives about a player because he does more negatives than positives is it considered bashing? We just grabbed a whole new pg because the kid stinks. Hahn and Clyde say this OFTEN. He was a Phil pick, dude has no future here. We don't have to protect him like he's going to be our kid that we are watching grow up.

Roberson without the defense or dumber Eric Snow. What's the proper comparison?

Im fact, instead of quoting me and trying to attack everything I say, tell me your thoughts on the kid? What you think his potential is and who you compare him to?

I"ve said about a million times I see his ceiling as a somewhere between Hill and Derek Harper. I've also said he just might turn out to not be good, but I'm not even to begin thinking about saying that until midway next year, and really, more like midway of year 3.
Seems like a long leash? Yeah, because he's 19. And I've also said many times that even the "good" version of Frank won't be a terribly exciting player, but one who is steady, plays within himself, runs a team, knocks down jumpers, and drives enough to keep his jumper honest. Which is why I don't even put his ceiling at just Derek Harper, but take it down a bit to George Hill. Or like Hill with Derek Harpers hops. I think he'll be a no flash, steady player of the kind you want in the rotation on a good team. Maybe. Unlike other posters here, I'm not Miss Cleo. I think this is where he'll go but he could be Landry Fields with an outrageous accent.

I mean, there are posters on here now amped about Mudiay but this guy looked like hot garbage 2 years ago. He looks MUCH better than he did. Please don't argue "well, he's more athletic, this that". Just the simple fact that Mudiay looked raw 2 years ago and now he doesn't. Might mean Frank goes from raw and untalented to unraw and untalented, but I still hold that some players need a couple of years. It's been 1/2 a year so far.

I don't know that Frank is raw though. Raw to me is about great athleticism and maybe even having scoring ability but just not understanding nuances of the game. Frank to me knows allot of nuances, he's fundamentally sound. He's just severely lacking in the understanding that in this league it's your responsibility as a PG to show out. Nobody wants a caretaker at pg besides maybe Phil Jackson and Larry Brown and they are both unemployed by the league.

I don't mind mistakes, I don't mind missed shots. I can't stand the timid nature, the caretakers mentality. He's too robotic

Good points. I used the term raw in terms of comparing him to Mudiay, who is definitely raw. In Frank's case, I used raw more as a synonym for "there is stuff that needs to be worked on", regardless of the fact that he shows nuances. I don't want to take this comparison too far, but it's as if Frank and Mudiay are somewhat inverted. Mudiay attacks more, is more athletic or uses more of his athleticism but plays a bit out of control, where Frank, to me at least, has shown a decent head for the game (again, not like Mudiay hasn't at times either - I'm making a broad statement here) and a mentality that is very cautious. I'd like to assume that he's so ingrained to take care of the ball and not do things outside of a comfort bubble that become "bad ball" that this is as much a part of his hesitation as is his ability - that maybe when his ability rises, his attacking will. Or maybe it won't. It really seems to me that this is the reason, but maybe I'm giving him too much credit and he's just an enormous bust. Seems odd he'd get that much consideration for the top 1/3rd of the draft, but it's not like some other consensus guys haven't flamed out in the past.

Should be interesting. Both players have something to offer the other in style and technique, but not sure if that'll happen.