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BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of China

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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#21 » by kane2021 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:16 am

If I’m not mistaken franks mother is a nurse and his brother is a doctor.


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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#23 » by nykballa2k4 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:33 am

Red Vines wrote:He can arrange to meet Larry Brown anytime he wants...


Larry Brown may start coaching in China next. Worked for Marbury.
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#24 » by blanko » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:12 am

Dr. Detfink wrote:Emmanual Mudiay once said, during an interview...that his mom worked so hard to keep a roof over their heads that the opportunity to make money and play overseas vs having her help him in college influenced his decision to bring home a paycheque to give to his mom sooner rather than later. It's a decision ANY young man would have difficulty making. Even IF you have a college scholarship, um that doesn't include living expenses, books, and um food. Heaven forbid you want to go out for a night on the town.

I paid my way through college because my parents couldn't afford to. I respect ANY person who has to agonize over that decision. Naw, I will NEVER criticize Mudiay's decision to make money. I'm sorry. Money > Education.

Thugger HBC wrote:I doubt he's be one and done under LB too.

Random thought...Chauncey Billups would be perfect to mentor our two young guards.


IF the Knicks weren't so stupid to burn their bridges with Chauncey, that would be a PERFECT fit. The size and length of both Mudiay and Ntilikina would be perfect frame to learn how Billups used to post up on opposing guards, bullying them and opening up cutting lanes and causing all kinds of havoc.

Gawd, I HATE the Knicks front office. A bunch of clowns. :nonono:


Chauncey isn't going to be an assistant coach. He wants to be the GM.
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#26 » by mrcalzone » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:06 pm

He's a Knick now. He's not going to suddenly turn it around and turn into an allstar. Thats now how the Knicks develop people in their culture/program
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#27 » by kane2021 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:21 pm

mrcalzone wrote:He's a Knick now. He's not going to suddenly turn it around and turn into an allstar. Thats now how the Knicks develop people in their culture/program

I’m kinda curious where this comes from. I’ve seen it said before. I took some time to really think about it.

It seems like we’ve done an excellent job of taking border line talents, and producing over achievers. We’ve got a really long list of guys like that. Many of which, left, and never achieved the same success.

I can’t think of too many where it’s the other way around. MAYBE Tim hardaway? We gave up early there but maybe that’s one.

I mean really. Where does that opinion come from? And I’m not saying that it’s not true. It’s just when I really think about it, it kinda seems like we might actually be good at getting more from less.


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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#28 » by Capn'O » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:23 pm

kane2021 wrote:
mrcalzone wrote:He's a Knick now. He's not going to suddenly turn it around and turn into an allstar. Thats now how the Knicks develop people in their culture/program

I’m kinda curious where this comes from. I’ve seen it said before. I took some time to really think about it.

It seems like we’ve done an excellent job of taking border line talents, and producing over achievers. We’ve got a really long list of guys like that. Many of which, left, and never achieved the same success.

I can’t think of too many where it’s the other way around. MAYBE Tim hardaway? We gave up early there but maybe that’s one.

I mean really. Where does that opinion come from? And I’m not saying that it’s not true. It’s just when I really think about it, it kinda seems like we might actually be good at getting more from less.


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Also, I'm fairly certain we still haven't extended a rookie since Charlie Ward so how would we even know?
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#29 » by nyczlegacy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:32 pm

well looks grim for him as a player

hornacek gonna turn him into a g league scrub by the time hes finished with him
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#30 » by kane2021 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:48 pm

Capn'O wrote:
kane2021 wrote:
mrcalzone wrote:He's a Knick now. He's not going to suddenly turn it around and turn into an allstar. Thats now how the Knicks develop people in their culture/program

I’m kinda curious where this comes from. I’ve seen it said before. I took some time to really think about it.

It seems like we’ve done an excellent job of taking border line talents, and producing over achievers. We’ve got a really long list of guys like that. Many of which, left, and never achieved the same success.

I can’t think of too many where it’s the other way around. MAYBE Tim hardaway? We gave up early there but maybe that’s one.

I mean really. Where does that opinion come from? And I’m not saying that it’s not true. It’s just when I really think about it, it kinda seems like we might actually be good at getting more from less.


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Also, I'm fairly certain we still haven't extended a rookie since Charlie Ward so how would we even know?

That’s the other part of it too. Along with the fact we haven’t had our lottery picks until recently.

But it’s like I said. We can come up with a pretty sizable list of players that we made into overachievers. Even this current roster right now. We got a bunch of guys having an up year.

I really thought about it. Ward. Lee. Chandler. Bender. Novak. Lin. Fields. Williams. That’s just quick off the top of my head. We can probably come up with twice that.

Baker and Willy over achievers. Burke and Beasley right now. KP is an all star.

I can keep on going. But where exactly are these players that show we’re a poor development team? Know what I mean?


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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#31 » by Are We Ther Yet » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:58 pm

I really miss ILL WILL. Injuries really slowed his career. I just love the way he played. We need someone like him to go with whatever other players in this group pan out. He would have been a good fit when everything was clicking for us early this year IMO. That type player would have helped us ride the storm when Timmy went down. I mean...we need better guard play as well but, I want a healthy ILL WILL type player in the mix.
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#32 » by NYKAL » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:19 pm

kane2021 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
kane2021 wrote:I’m kinda curious where this comes from. I’ve seen it said before. I took some time to really think about it.

It seems like we’ve done an excellent job of taking border line talents, and producing over achievers. We’ve got a really long list of guys like that. Many of which, left, and never achieved the same success.

I can’t think of too many where it’s the other way around. MAYBE Tim hardaway? We gave up early there but maybe that’s one.

I mean really. Where does that opinion come from? And I’m not saying that it’s not true. It’s just when I really think about it, it kinda seems like we might actually be good at getting more from less.


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Also, I'm fairly certain we still haven't extended a rookie since Charlie Ward so how would we even know?

That’s the other part of it too. Along with the fact we haven’t had our lottery picks until recently.

But it’s like I said. We can come up with a pretty sizable list of players that we made into overachievers. Even this current roster right now. We got a bunch of guys having an up year.

I really thought about it. Ward. Lee. Chandler. Bender. Novak. Lin. Fields. Williams. That’s just quick off the top of my head. We can probably come up with twice that.

Baker and Willy over achievers. Burke and Beasley right now. KP is an all star.

I can keep on going. But where exactly are these players that show we’re a poor development team? Know what I mean?


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I had to go and delete my post because you beat me to most of those name I was going to mention. For most of a single year we had Eddy Curry resemble and NBA player. Even though we drafted him, we made the most out of Copeland.
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#33 » by kane2021 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:33 pm

NYKAL wrote:
kane2021 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Also, I'm fairly certain we still haven't extended a rookie since Charlie Ward so how would we even know?

That’s the other part of it too. Along with the fact we haven’t had our lottery picks until recently.

But it’s like I said. We can come up with a pretty sizable list of players that we made into overachievers. Even this current roster right now. We got a bunch of guys having an up year.

I really thought about it. Ward. Lee. Chandler. Bender. Novak. Lin. Fields. Williams. That’s just quick off the top of my head. We can probably come up with twice that.

Baker and Willy over achievers. Burke and Beasley right now. KP is an all star.

I can keep on going. But where exactly are these players that show we’re a poor development team? Know what I mean?


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I had to go and delete my post because you beat me to most of those name I was going to mention. For most of a single year we had Eddy Curry resemble and NBA player. Even though we drafted him, we made the most out of Copeland.

Yup. Cope is another one. Motivating a overweight curry for one year after being given up on due to a heart condition is an achievement.

Late 1st. 2nd. Undrafted fa. D league. Young vet cast off by other teams. Doesn’t seem to matter.

I’m really not seeing where the reputation of being poor at developing players comes in.


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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#34 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:56 pm

kane2021 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
kane2021 wrote:I’m kinda curious where this comes from. I’ve seen it said before. I took some time to really think about it.

It seems like we’ve done an excellent job of taking border line talents, and producing over achievers. We’ve got a really long list of guys like that. Many of which, left, and never achieved the same success.

I can’t think of too many where it’s the other way around. MAYBE Tim hardaway? We gave up early there but maybe that’s one.

I mean really. Where does that opinion come from? And I’m not saying that it’s not true. It’s just when I really think about it, it kinda seems like we might actually be good at getting more from less.


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Also, I'm fairly certain we still haven't extended a rookie since Charlie Ward so how would we even know?

That’s the other part of it too. Along with the fact we haven’t had our lottery picks until recently.

But it’s like I said. We can come up with a pretty sizable list of players that we made into overachievers. Even this current roster right now. We got a bunch of guys having an up year.

I really thought about it. Ward. Lee. Chandler. Bender. Novak. Lin. Fields. Williams. That’s just quick off the top of my head. We can probably come up with twice that.

Baker and Willy over achievers. Burke and Beasley right now. KP is an all star.

I can keep on going. But where exactly are these players that show we’re a poor development team? Know what I mean?


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You're correct. Guys like Galloway were the first of a series of players who produced due to patience and using Westchester and then there are just unsigned free agents like Copeland. And most of those guys did their best work as a Knick.

What you're picking up on is fan dissatisfaction that probably none of these developmental-type of players have ever become high level starters.

That doesn't negate the facts like you're saying which is the organization has made strides in the past five years in the developmental process.

Eventually one of those pick-ups will blossom into a building block piece and a quality long-term starter.

I think that it hasn't happened yet is more an indication of how hard it is to find those players more than the organization failing to follow-through.

While I question whether this organization can develop Mudiay it will probably come down more to Mudiay than to whom is coaching him which season.
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#35 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:00 pm

P.S. Personnel fit has as much to do with whether players prosper as any other factor.

If management does its job and puts the right mix of players together they all get better as a result of proper chemistry.

Phil went bananas on frontline personnel and thought he was being clever getting Rose, but I think Perry probably understands they can't take shortcuts with the PG position any longer.

This franchise has cursed the PG position for two decades and it is time to make amends on that gaping hole. They're doing the right things so far with small low-risk gambles like Mudiay and Burke, but that is just a starting point unless a player like Mudiay really comes on strong.
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#36 » by kane2021 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:23 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
kane2021 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Also, I'm fairly certain we still haven't extended a rookie since Charlie Ward so how would we even know?

That’s the other part of it too. Along with the fact we haven’t had our lottery picks until recently.

But it’s like I said. We can come up with a pretty sizable list of players that we made into overachievers. Even this current roster right now. We got a bunch of guys having an up year.

I really thought about it. Ward. Lee. Chandler. Bender. Novak. Lin. Fields. Williams. That’s just quick off the top of my head. We can probably come up with twice that.

Baker and Willy over achievers. Burke and Beasley right now. KP is an all star.

I can keep on going. But where exactly are these players that show we’re a poor development team? Know what I mean?


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You're correct. Guys like Galloway were the first of a series of players who produced due to patience and using Westchester and then there are just unsigned free agents like Copeland. And most of those guys did their best work as a Knick.

What you're picking up on is fan dissatisfaction that probably none of these developmental-type of players have ever become high level starters.

That doesn't negate the facts like you're saying which is the organization has made strides in the past five years in the developmental process.

Eventually one of those pick-ups will blossom into a building block piece and a quality long-term starter.

I think that it hasn't happened yet is more an indication of how hard it is to find those players more than the organization failing to follow-through.

While I question whether this organization can develop Mudiay it will probably come down more to Mudiay than to whom is coaching him which season.

Galloway is another one. Yup. Now we finally have our lottery picks. We’re finally getting a chance to develop blue chip prospects.

Sometimes a kid just doesn’t have it. I feel comfortable now saying if he does have it, we’ll get it all out there.


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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#37 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:30 pm

kane2021 wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
kane2021 wrote:That’s the other part of it too. Along with the fact we haven’t had our lottery picks until recently.

But it’s like I said. We can come up with a pretty sizable list of players that we made into overachievers. Even this current roster right now. We got a bunch of guys having an up year.

I really thought about it. Ward. Lee. Chandler. Bender. Novak. Lin. Fields. Williams. That’s just quick off the top of my head. We can probably come up with twice that.

Baker and Willy over achievers. Burke and Beasley right now. KP is an all star.

I can keep on going. But where exactly are these players that show we’re a poor development team? Know what I mean?


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You're correct. Guys like Galloway were the first of a series of players who produced due to patience and using Westchester and then there are just unsigned free agents like Copeland. And most of those guys did their best work as a Knick.

What you're picking up on is fan dissatisfaction that probably none of these developmental-type of players have ever become high level starters.

That doesn't negate the facts like you're saying which is the organization has made strides in the past five years in the developmental process.

Eventually one of those pick-ups will blossom into a building block piece and a quality long-term starter.

I think that it hasn't happened yet is more an indication of how hard it is to find those players more than the organization failing to follow-through.

While I question whether this organization can develop Mudiay it will probably come down more to Mudiay than to whom is coaching him which season.

Galloway is another one. Yup. Now we finally have our lottery picks. We’re finally getting a chance to develop blue chip prospects.

Sometimes a kid just doesn’t have it. I feel comfortable now saying if he does have it, we’ll get it all out there.


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I still don't trust Mills and while I don't have any reason to mythologize Perry I fundamentally trust him to take the correct overall approach as long as Dolan keeps his nose out of it.

Perry knows this will take time and he is also politically aware enough to know that with KP the team was already on the cusp of an 8th seed so he couldn't just go around shooting off his mouth that winning games is meaningless.

The silver lining of KP's injury is Perry can drop all that and do exactly what he wants to do now. And that mostly is going to be cap management and playing the numbers game with lots of cheap auditions until he finds rotation players on cheap deals in the next two seasons.

If none of those developmental pick-ups become starters, that's what first rounders and free agency will be for.

Anyway, I don't know if Frank will pan out, but I don't expect Perry to ice him out because it was not his pick. I think he's a culture guy, but will be just ruthless enough if guys just can't carry their weight.

This is another 3-4 years then. Has to happen one way or another and I think it is. Lots of griping will happen in the meantime for sure.
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#38 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:22 pm

I wish him the best but I've seen this script of taking a player "with physical ability but needs his skills refined to become X" before

With a little seasoning Jamal Crawford can be a good PG
Eddy Curry just needs someone to unlock his talent

Are we sure Isiah Thomas doesn't still have influence at MSG?
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#39 » by Capn'O » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:45 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:I wish him the best but I've seen this script of taking a player "with physical ability but needs his skills refined to become X" before

With a little seasoning Jamal Crawford can be a good PG
Eddy Curry just needs someone to unlock his talent

Are we sure Isiah Thomas doesn't still have influence at MSG?


Here's the difference:

This deal was more like trading Nazr Mohammed - a decent role player with limited upside - for two years of Curry on a rookie scale deal. Even knowing how it turned out with Eddy, that's a deal I still would support. A good risk - and I'll die on this hill regardless of whether Mudiay pans - manages the liability side as well. Isiah NEVER did.
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Re: BROTHER: Emmanuel Mudiay's development would have went different if he played for Larry Brown at SMU instead of Chin 

Post#40 » by Clyde Frazier » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:50 pm

I don't really care about next town brown, but it would be nice to have a retired dynamic PG (like a nick van exel) on the roster to help develop him.

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