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PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process

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Re: RE: Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#441 » by MP4LIFE » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:41 pm

vallen wrote:
GONYK wrote:
vallen wrote:

you really dont know how many people run a F.O in basketball ? you really think its just Phil and Dolan who have stake in it.

it doesnt effect anyone else ? there no scouts ? no coaches ? no assistant gm's ? Gm's ? assistant coaches ? VP's ?


Phil was the boss of every single person you just mentioned. They all answered to him.

Which of those guys you listed could fire their boss?



Keep arguing something couldnt happen that actually did. :lol:

your spin is that he couldnt be fired for drafting but could be fired for something else ??

thats silly and naive. even for you.


You seem to be avoiding discussion on this and pushing your agenda. I've already addressed multiple posts of yours with an actual explanation of what happens here at MSG and you have chosen to ignore them in order to tell everyone that Phil was fired for the Frank draft, which we all know isn't true - and even if it is, it would be extremely stupid to sign off on a draft pick made by your President and then fire him the following week for the draft pick you approved.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#442 » by vallen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:55 pm

GONYK wrote:
vallen wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Phil was the boss of every single person you just mentioned. They all answered to him.

Which of those guys you listed could fire their boss?



Keep arguing something couldnt happen that actually did.

your spin is that he couldnt be fired for drafting but could be fired for something else ??

thats silly and naive. even for you.


Take a look back at our interaction. Did I insult you? No? Then you keep clear of insulting me.

No, I'm saying he wasn't fired for drafting because the time line doesn't add up and all the people who you speculate disagreed with his decision can't fire him, since he was their boss.

The only person who could fire Phil was Dolan. That was the only person in the entire organization that Phil answered to.

Dolan had no idea who these prospects were. KP was a wildly unpopular choice who was supposed to be a project too, and yet Dolan didn't fire Phil for that. It worked out great. So why would he do so after Phil's next pick?

Dolan only fired Phil a week after the draft. The only change was Phil said he wanted to waive Melo. In fact, Dolan fired Phil the day after Phil suggested it.

If you want to contort both the timing of events as well as the Knicks organizational chart just to fit your perception, knock yourself out. It just doesn't line up with the facts of the situation in any logical way.



we can go back to agreeing to disagree. sry if i insulted you.
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Re: RE: Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#443 » by vallen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:57 pm

MP4LIFE wrote:
vallen wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Phil was the boss of every single person you just mentioned. They all answered to him.

Which of those guys you listed could fire their boss?



Keep arguing something couldnt happen that actually did. :lol:

your spin is that he couldnt be fired for drafting but could be fired for something else ??

thats silly and naive. even for you.


You seem to be avoiding discussion on this and pushing your agenda. I've already addressed multiple posts of yours with an actual explanation of what happens here at MSG and you have chosen to ignore them in order to tell everyone that Phil was fired for the Frank draft, which we all know isn't true - and even if it is, it would be extremely stupid to sign off on a draft pick made by your President and then fire him the following week for the draft pick you approved.



honestly i just dont respect you enough as a poster to waste my time or even care what your thoughts are. thats why im ignoring you. not avoiding. some people just dont get the hint.
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Re: RE: Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#444 » by MP4LIFE » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:59 pm

vallen wrote:
MP4LIFE wrote:
vallen wrote:

Keep arguing something couldnt happen that actually did. :lol:

your spin is that he couldnt be fired for drafting but could be fired for something else ??

thats silly and naive. even for you.


You seem to be avoiding discussion on this and pushing your agenda. I've already addressed multiple posts of yours with an actual explanation of what happens here at MSG and you have chosen to ignore them in order to tell everyone that Phil was fired for the Frank draft, which we all know isn't true - and even if it is, it would be extremely stupid to sign off on a draft pick made by your President and then fire him the following week for the draft pick you approved.



honestly i just dont respect you enough as a poster to waste my time or even care what your thoughts are. thats why im ignoring you. not avoiding. some people just dont get the hint.


Fair enough. You are a terrible poster yourself. Stick to living in a bubble.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#445 » by vallen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:59 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
vallen wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:how do you even define "courage" in terms of basketball

and what constitutes courage? Taking a lot of shots? Is commitment on the defensive end a requirement for courage?


courage - the ability to do something that frightens one.

its the same meaning in basketball as it is anywhere. hes scared.



if someone goes 4-18 from the field does that mean they have courage to keep shooting or does that mean they are too stupid to realize they don't have it?



Has frank actually shot the ball 18 times in a game ?
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#446 » by Red Vines » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:03 pm

Think the organization is in shock right now: KP's injury, Frank not panning out, and Tim's struggles. 3 pieces they were counting on.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#447 » by dakomish23 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:04 pm

shtolky wrote:
Dr. Detfink wrote:The Sixers are a team that the Knicks front office could learn a lot from. Yes, the Sixers did draft some stinkers BUT keep in mind of the follow:

1. The Sixers realized that they had NO CHANCE attract any top tier free agents. The only free agents the Sixers would get a sniff from, aging vets who were using one rebound season in order to justify $$$$$. Without vastly overpaying them to what end? Barely under .500?

2. The Sixers realized competing to just miss the playoffs didn't help in the draft. Let me repeat that: COMPETING TO MISS THE PLAYOFFS. Only led them to mid level picks NONE of which panned out.

3. The Sixers also realized the Lottery is FIXED. How many times did the Bulls, Cavs, Magic get the #1 pick? No one thought to fix this?
Ridiculous.

They needed to put down the foundation FIRST and the only way you do that was to TANK!

Now here come the Knicks...

1. Team President Steve Mills gives a BS speech on fielding a competitive team. The Knicks decide to use what cap space they have to overpay Tim Hardaway Jr, meaning the Knicks won't have cap space for at least 2-3 seasons. Never mind Hardaway Jr is basically a more expensive version of Courtney Lee. He would be the 6th or 7th best guy on a title contender.

2. Without any cap space, the Knicks kind of needed a point guard right?!?! Without much wiggle room, Knicks GM Steve Perry went out and addressed the Knicks' biggest deficiency point guard by signing Latino Viagra, Ramon Sessions. Luckily he ran into Jarret Jack begging for coins outside of the 42nd Street station in Times Square.

3. Perry traded Melo and got in return a Political Refugee for $18M-20M per season, second round pick. Perry traded a Hall of Famer and got basically a guy who allows Jeff Hornacek to bench Noah, Hernangomez, and reduce O'Quinn's minutes. Kanter will opt-in and stay with the Knicks, making it impossible for the Knicks to buy a first rounder. The Knicks won't get that much better because he's limited in so many ways. Most of all, Perry didn't address the point guard situation because he was pressured to move Melo before the season began.

4. The Knicks front office allowed their coach to de-value their assets. Hornacek goes with a short bench. Hence McDermott, Dotson, Hernangomez don't get any better and ride the bench.

5. No one wanted the Knicks' alleged assets. Kyle O'Quinn anyone? Any takers? Nope. Courtney Lee any takers? Nope. McDermott (1st round #11 pick) and Hernangomez given away for a couple second rounders. Thanks Jeff.

The Sixers Front office took a lot of flak and it took A LOT of time but they have 2 huge pieces of the puzzle in Simmons and Embiid, cap space, and a weak Eastern conference. The Knicks have Porzingis out till mid-way next season, 18 year old guard in Ntilikina that is not getting mentored, NO cap space, and a Front Office who thinks the "New York" moniker can still get them Lebron James.

The only GOOD news Knick fans is the injury has FORCED the Knick Front Office to focus exclusively on the draft. Let's PRAY they don't screw that up. The Knicks need TWO good drafts in order to rebuild this team proper nevermind a coach who isn't named Mark Jackson.




We are going to have a lot of cap space in 2019. The Sixers tanked but they also got lucky. They won the lottery in a year with a clear undisputed #1, and had Embiid not gotten hurt in college he would have gone #1. Lot of luck needed in the NBA.

Also, whether you want to admit it or not, players do like NY. We've gotten meetings with free agents when we have no business being in the same room as them. We just happen to suck big time but if we are decent and have money, they will be interested.


We don’t have a lot of cap space in 2019 compared to the rising salaries.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#448 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:05 pm

Fury wrote:Suddenly everyone was gonna pick Mitchell


go back to that draft thread. a few of us, myself included, had mitchell on the radar. none of us wanted him at 8.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#449 » by Billy Goat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:05 pm

Red Vines wrote:Think the organization is in shock right now: KP's injury, Frank not panning out, and Tim's struggles. 3 pieces they were counting on.


Frank's 19 and looks 12. Counting on him for anything this year was silly.

Hardaway has always sucked and overpaying him was idiotic when a combo of Lee/Holiday would have given you at least replacement level play at a fraction of the cost.

The team wasnt playing well before KP's injury and frankly neither was he.

The roster is really bad and the team needs a lottery savior to even begin fixing this mess.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#450 » by shtolky » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:07 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
shtolky wrote:
Dr. Detfink wrote:The Sixers are a team that the Knicks front office could learn a lot from. Yes, the Sixers did draft some stinkers BUT keep in mind of the follow:

1. The Sixers realized that they had NO CHANCE attract any top tier free agents. The only free agents the Sixers would get a sniff from, aging vets who were using one rebound season in order to justify $$$$$. Without vastly overpaying them to what end? Barely under .500?

2. The Sixers realized competing to just miss the playoffs didn't help in the draft. Let me repeat that: COMPETING TO MISS THE PLAYOFFS. Only led them to mid level picks NONE of which panned out.

3. The Sixers also realized the Lottery is FIXED. How many times did the Bulls, Cavs, Magic get the #1 pick? No one thought to fix this?
Ridiculous.

They needed to put down the foundation FIRST and the only way you do that was to TANK!

Now here come the Knicks...

1. Team President Steve Mills gives a BS speech on fielding a competitive team. The Knicks decide to use what cap space they have to overpay Tim Hardaway Jr, meaning the Knicks won't have cap space for at least 2-3 seasons. Never mind Hardaway Jr is basically a more expensive version of Courtney Lee. He would be the 6th or 7th best guy on a title contender.

2. Without any cap space, the Knicks kind of needed a point guard right?!?! Without much wiggle room, Knicks GM Steve Perry went out and addressed the Knicks' biggest deficiency point guard by signing Latino Viagra, Ramon Sessions. Luckily he ran into Jarret Jack begging for coins outside of the 42nd Street station in Times Square.

3. Perry traded Melo and got in return a Political Refugee for $18M-20M per season, second round pick. Perry traded a Hall of Famer and got basically a guy who allows Jeff Hornacek to bench Noah, Hernangomez, and reduce O'Quinn's minutes. Kanter will opt-in and stay with the Knicks, making it impossible for the Knicks to buy a first rounder. The Knicks won't get that much better because he's limited in so many ways. Most of all, Perry didn't address the point guard situation because he was pressured to move Melo before the season began.

4. The Knicks front office allowed their coach to de-value their assets. Hornacek goes with a short bench. Hence McDermott, Dotson, Hernangomez don't get any better and ride the bench.

5. No one wanted the Knicks' alleged assets. Kyle O'Quinn anyone? Any takers? Nope. Courtney Lee any takers? Nope. McDermott (1st round #11 pick) and Hernangomez given away for a couple second rounders. Thanks Jeff.

The Sixers Front office took a lot of flak and it took A LOT of time but they have 2 huge pieces of the puzzle in Simmons and Embiid, cap space, and a weak Eastern conference. The Knicks have Porzingis out till mid-way next season, 18 year old guard in Ntilikina that is not getting mentored, NO cap space, and a Front Office who thinks the "New York" moniker can still get them Lebron James.

The only GOOD news Knick fans is the injury has FORCED the Knick Front Office to focus exclusively on the draft. Let's PRAY they don't screw that up. The Knicks need TWO good drafts in order to rebuild this team proper nevermind a coach who isn't named Mark Jackson.




We are going to have a lot of cap space in 2019. The Sixers tanked but they also got lucky. They won the lottery in a year with a clear undisputed #1, and had Embiid not gotten hurt in college he would have gone #1. Lot of luck needed in the NBA.

Also, whether you want to admit it or not, players do like NY. We've gotten meetings with free agents when we have no business being in the same room as them. We just happen to suck big time but if we are decent and have money, they will be interested.


We don’t have a lot of cap space in 2019 compared to the rising salaries.



Yes we do, we've been over this. We CAN have cap space for a max player (and a little left over) if we waive Lance (obvious since he's only guaranteed 1m in 2019), stretch Noah (another obvious, saving us 13m), and don't take on long term salaries (which we seem to be avoiding). Fact is, now that the cap has smoothed out from those ridiculous increases, cap space is once again a commodity and we will have a bunch of it. Fact. You want to argue whether anyone will come here, that's fair, but we have a good amount of space during an amazing FA class.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#451 » by god shammgod » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:08 pm

Red Vines wrote:Think the organization is in shock right now: KP's injury, Frank not panning out, and Tim's struggles. 3 pieces they were counting on.


yeah. not off to a great start. :lol:
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#452 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:10 pm

2010 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Listen to the reporter's question to Jeff on the postgame on why he decided to take Frank out and tell me if you can make sense out of his answer. Btw, does anybody here know who that female reporter who asked the question is? Don't tell me it's Rebecca. :lol:

@ 0:35



Yeah that's Rebecca.

And his answer is an indictment of how ass Frank is. Basically he said he wanted to make one last run at tryna get back into the game, so he subbed Frank out :lol:

Which indicates he believes if he wants to win he has a better shot of doing it without Frank on the court :lol:


i think i figured rebecca out. she's a reporter, not a broadcaster. she's way more at ease asking basketball questions than trying to present entertainment content, if that makes sense. we know she's an ivy leaguer and an athlete herself, so i don't think she's here by accident. she's a clumsy host, but a solid sports reporter.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#453 » by dakomish23 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:11 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
Red Vines wrote:Think the organization is in shock right now: KP's injury, Frank not panning out, and Tim's struggles. 3 pieces they were counting on.


Frank's 19 and looks 12. Counting on him for anything this year was silly.

Hardaway has always sucked and overpaying him was idiotic when a combo of Lee/Holiday would have given you at least replacement level play at a fraction of the cost.

The team wasnt playing well before KP's injury and frankly neither was he.

The roster is really bad and the team needs a lottery savior to even begin fixing this mess.


The organization needs a paradigm shift in their thinking.

Enough of the win as many games as possible in bad years at the cost of development and draft position.

Play the kids.

Accept the outcome.

Draft wisely.

Don’t screw up 18-19 like you did 17-18
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#454 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:11 pm

Red Vines wrote:Think the organization is in shock right now: KP's injury, Frank not panning out, and Tim's struggles. 3 pieces they were counting on.


i think you are in shock
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#455 » by Da ThRONe » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:13 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Da ThRONe wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
The can send him packing too. Just like WHG. Culture!


There's a line but at some point the BS has to get to a person. To me the issue here is Hornacek not Burke. He has produced at a level of efficiency that's only match by Kanter and can't get any meaningful mins and you think he's hurting the culture? Do you not see the failed logic in that? Or do you just want to illogically hate on the player because he doesn't fit your personal criteria because of his size?


I think Burke sort of sucks. Just like every other player on the Knicks. There's a reason they have 23 wins.

I mean, with players on the team that some posters like, others don't, but if you added all the players there is some consensus on this board about being very good, good, decent and "can contribute", i"d say the list runs to 8 or 9, yet the team is horrible.

Players aren't that good, Jeff isn't a good coach. He's losing guys probably because he doesn't communicate well with them. Noah got the ass, WHG complained all year, Burke is annoyed. Morris wanted to strangle him in Phoenix. Sort of a pattern.


At least other players are getting to prove themselves which was WHG issue and it was a fair one whether or not people like the way he came out and expressed himself. Mudiay came in day one and got meaningful mins. Had a fairly decent game and people went crazy. Burke has been far better than that and he gets shown so little love by the team and on this board don't get it. A PER of 23 is all star worthy his per 36 number on par with all star guards. If he does that behind Westbrook, Wall, Paul fine but he's doing it behind Jack, Ntilikina, and now Mudiay. It makes no sense and should piss him or any competitive person off in my opinion.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#456 » by Billy Goat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:14 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Red Vines wrote:Think the organization is in shock right now: KP's injury, Frank not panning out, and Tim's struggles. 3 pieces they were counting on.


Frank's 19 and looks 12. Counting on him for anything this year was silly.

Hardaway has always sucked and overpaying him was idiotic when a combo of Lee/Holiday would have given you at least replacement level play at a fraction of the cost.

The team wasnt playing well before KP's injury and frankly neither was he.

The roster is really bad and the team needs a lottery savior to even begin fixing this mess.


The organization needs a paradigm shift in their thinking.

Enough of the win as many games as possible in bad years at the cost of development and draft position.

Play the kids.

Accept the outcome.

Draft wisely.

Don’t screw up 18-19 like you did 17-18


I'm all for playing the young guys but if Frank can't at least give you a passable/NBA level play it's just going to hurt him and any other younger player(s). He's coming from a french league where he barely played as a total unknown. Starting a PG who isnt ready is like playing a young QB who isnt- it adversely impacts others and their own development.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#457 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:14 pm

2010 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
2010 wrote:When Jack is 35 and Frank is 19 but people use the excuse that the 2nd night of a back-to-back is why Frank played like ass. If anyone should have that excuse copied on their clipboard it should be Jack. Then people use Frank's quad as an excuse when Jack at his age is coming off a torn ACL and torn meniscus and has played more minutes than Frank this season.

I can't wit y'all excuses...


Well, it's what the coach said, but you're non stop with the "frank sucks" so whatever.

Do you like anyone on the team? You shouldn't. If the team collectively has one 23 games and probably wind up with 25, it means there isn't one good player on it.

KP, maybe. That's all I've got. Everyone else is straight up ass.


As if what our coach says is law. The coach has made it his business to talk out both sides of his mouth all year. His word is def not bond.

I like Dotson. I like Burke as a 3rd string PG for instant offense and change of pace. I still fux wit Hardaway no matter how unpopular that'll sound...he just in a bad tailspin but he'll be fine. Before his injury the whole forum jumped back on his nuts after his slow start saying how if you removed his 1st four games he was having an all-star consideration season. Then his injury happened. I like Beasley (if he stays cheap) as an instant offense F off the bench and spot starter.

But it don't matter who else I like/dislike. Frank is ass and is hardly showing any flashes that gives me hope he gonna get his schit together anytime this season, or maybe ever.


did the excuses police just give tim hardaway a pass?
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#458 » by NYKAL » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:18 pm

Red Vines wrote:Think the organization is in shock right now: KP's injury, Frank not panning out, and Tim's struggles. 3 pieces they were counting on.


how could they not be. They overbid by like 20mil imo, was relying on KP & Frank mania to keep us tuning in but, with KP down and Frank looking damn near autistic out there (yeah, I'm exaggerating, I know) they can't feel good about the situation.

You would think they would at least show they were developing youth to give us SOMETHING to look forward to but, no, Jack is stil starting and playing the bulk of the minutes. Makes no **** sense.

Also, they should have told Wily to STFU, you are ours until your contract is up. Dude would be getting all the floor time he wants now. Its called waiting till your number is called.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#459 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:18 pm

j4remi wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:People Just want to complain post after post. Its what they do. Buckle up? Man please... Let me show you the tour. Mofos aint got nothing better to do.


You're right, we prolly got another 20 games of this before everyone fully turns their attention to complaining about draft rumors instead of the young players we've already got. :lol:


no. they'll complain about every stray win from these "idiots who don't understand the value of a tank." we probably have about 5 of those the rest of the way.
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Re: PG Thread: Tanks Trust The Process 

Post#460 » by NYKAL » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:20 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Frank's 19 and looks 12. Counting on him for anything this year was silly.

Hardaway has always sucked and overpaying him was idiotic when a combo of Lee/Holiday would have given you at least replacement level play at a fraction of the cost.

The team wasnt playing well before KP's injury and frankly neither was he.

The roster is really bad and the team needs a lottery savior to even begin fixing this mess.


The organization needs a paradigm shift in their thinking.

Enough of the win as many games as possible in bad years at the cost of development and draft position.

Play the kids.

Accept the outcome.

Draft wisely.

Don’t screw up 18-19 like you did 17-18


I'm all for playing the young guys but if Frank can't at least give you a passable/NBA level play it's just going to hurt him and any other younger player(s). He's coming from a french league where he barely played as a total unknown. Starting a PG who isnt ready is like playing a young QB who isnt- it adversely impacts others and their own development.


IF .....IF that is the case, then we need to know it and move on from him. If nothing else it would tell the organization they need to look at guards (again) in the draft and try to get it right this time.

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