Knicks To Prioritize Minutes For Young Point Guards After All-Star Break

[Da ThRONe]

Burke is still kind of young. With the right coach he can become a winning player, he has a lot of talent. I heard some people call him the point guard version of michael Beasley and it is true that his bball iq, defense are bad and coaches have criticized him for not being a true pg. But maybe horny can be the right coach for him the same way that Lionel hollins was the right coach for Zach randolph.

Who has questioned Trey bball IQ? Hornacek has spoken well of Burke's understanding so has John Beinlien.

[Sark]

Wait 54%fg 41%3py 2.8 to .6 A/T rate and 22 PER is subpar?

Burke is so bad on defense that it negates his offense by a factor of 2.

No he's not. And even if he was it would still place him well ahead of Mudiay and Ntilikina.

Go look up the on/off for Burke and Frank. We're slightly better on offense, but extremely worse on defense, to the point we are -5 worse overall. With Frank we're worse on offense, but way better on defense, to the point that we're actually better overall.

[Sark]

Our last three wins: Utah, Phx, & BKN, Burke played 15+ minutes. All other games since Utah he played less (usually barely or not at all) and we lost...3-11.

Correlation does not equal causation. Pretty sure that those wins had more to do with KP and playing bad teams, than Trey Burke. We swept BK for the year, and Phoenix is absolutely horrible.

[Worst_to_First]

1st of all Trey Burke is the best PG of all the PG's right now ......Burke , Ntilikina,and Mudiay should get all the guard play. Mudiay or Burke initiating offense through this year but Ntilikina playing the point on defense.

Kanter,Porzingas and Beasley could have been so much better if the Knicks didn't have the worst PG play in the NBA this season. So now let the young guys play and play faster .
Right now

PG) Mudiay
PG) Ntilikina
SF) Hardaway
PF) Beasley
C) Kanter

6th man) Burke

Play them for the rest of the year

I'd start Dotson and make Timmy the Super Sub.

I like the idea of 2-PG lineups. I'd be happy at this point if Frank becomes a 6'5 version of what Prigs brought to the table during our 54-win season.

[WeAreNYC]

Mudiay - Frank pairing looked good in that first game post trade and I don’t feel like we’ve seen it for long enough stretches since. Hopefully this results in seeing that a bit more. Frank is a strong 3 point shooter and Mudiay seems capable of driving & kicking. Not sure what our best 3 point lineup would be surrounding those 2 but that’s what I’d like to see out there.

[Context]

I gotta be honest...I have no faith in Burke or Mudiay (at this point). Frank, I believe deserves more time...But I would trade him for a top 10 pick in this years draft...

And as far AS PLAYING TIME FOR THE KIDS I could care less- If you get me ZERO wins for the remainder of the season -then I'm very happy. We need that 2nd impact - cheap -player to go along with KP...

[Besart19]

1st of all Trey Burke is the best PG of all the PG's right now ......Burke , Ntilikina,and Mudiay should get all the guard play. Mudiay or Burke initiating offense through this year but Ntilikina playing the point on defense.

Kanter,Porzingas and Beasley could have been so much better if the Knicks didn't have the worst PG play in the NBA this season. So now let the young guys play and play faster .
Right now

PG) Mudiay
PG) Ntilikina
SF) Hardaway
PF) Beasley
C) Kanter

6th man) Burke

Play them for the rest of the year

I'd start Dotson and make Timmy the Super Sub.

I like the idea of 2-PG lineups. I'd be happy at this point if Frank becomes a 6'5 version of what Prigs brought to the table during our 54-win season.

Ntilikina / Burke / Mudiay
Mudiay / Dotson / Lee
Timmy / Lee / Lance
Beas / Lance / Hicks
KOQ / Kanter / Kornet

[Knicksfan20]

More minutes just means Mudiay is going to be terrible for longer each night.

Tank god.

[Da ThRONe]

Our last three wins: Utah, Phx, & BKN, Burke played 15+ minutes. All other games since Utah he played less (usually barely or not at all) and we lost...3-11.

Correlation does not equal causation. Pretty sure that those wins had more to do with KP and playing bad teams, than Trey Burke. We swept BK for the year, and Phoenix is absolutely horrible.

But that's exactly the same logic you use when you talk about defensive ratings as they are based on the team defense and sample size as Burke time on the court has been limited(especially when you consider the amount of meaningful time).

[Sark]

Our last three wins: Utah, Phx, & BKN, Burke played 15+ minutes. All other games since Utah he played less (usually barely or not at all) and we lost...3-11.

Correlation does not equal causation. Pretty sure that those wins had more to do with KP and playing bad teams, than Trey Burke. We swept BK for the year, and Phoenix is absolutely horrible.

But that's exactly the same logic you use when you talk about defensive ratings as they are based on the team defense and sample size as Burke time on the court has been limited(especially when you consider the amount of meaningful time).

What do you mean? I'm using the sample size of the whole season when I bring up that our defense is way worse with Burke on compared to him off. Red Vines is being disingenuous when he cherry picked his stat of Burke playing 15+ minutes in our 3 wins, because he completely overlooks that Burke played 28+ minutes against Denver in a loss.

Our defense for the entire season is better with Frank on court compared to him off. Our offense is also worse, but the defensive positives outweigh our lack of offense.

There's more to the game of basketball than just offense.

[Knicksfan20]

Next let’s prioritize getting rid of our head coach.

[Da ThRONe]

Correlation does not equal causation. Pretty sure that those wins had more to do with KP and playing bad teams, than Trey Burke. We swept BK for the year, and Phoenix is absolutely horrible.

But that's exactly the same logic you use when you talk about defensive ratings as they are based on the team defense and sample size as Burke time on the court has been limited(especially when you consider the amount of meaningful time).

What do you mean? I'm using the sample size of the whole season when I bring up that our defense is way worse with Burke on compared to him off. Red Vines is being disingenuous when he cherry picked his stat of Burke playing 15+ minutes in our 3 wins, because he completely overlooks that Burke played 28+ minutes against Denver in a loss.

Our defense for the entire season is better with Frank on court compared to him off. Our offense is also worse, but the defensive positives outweigh our lack of offense.

There's more to the game of basketball than just offense.

Agreed but there's also more to defensives stats then on and off court numbers. You have some stellar defensive player with questionable defensive metrics. Those number are too greatly effected by the 4 other player and defensive schemes.

[DOT]

Correlation does not equal causation. Pretty sure that those wins had more to do with KP and playing bad teams, than Trey Burke. We swept BK for the year, and Phoenix is absolutely horrible.

But that's exactly the same logic you use when you talk about defensive ratings as they are based on the team defense and sample size as Burke time on the court has been limited(especially when you consider the amount of meaningful time).

What do you mean? I'm using the sample size of the whole season when I bring up that our defense is way worse with Burke on compared to him off. Red Vines is being disingenuous when he cherry picked his stat of Burke playing 15+ minutes in our 3 wins, because he completely overlooks that Burke played 28+ minutes against Denver in a loss.

Our defense for the entire season is better with Frank on court compared to him off. Our offense is also worse, but the defensive positives outweigh our lack of offense.

There's more to the game of basketball than just offense.

Also, we have a significant sample size for Burke, y'know, cause he's in his 5th year

His best Drtg is 102.9, which is what JJ Redick's Drtg this year. So his best year he was below average. He's also never averaged a negative DefFG%, actually that stat's gotten worse since his rookie year, and this year it is negative, but again, small sample size

Never had a positive NetRTG, and his best Ortg was his rookie year at 104.2

Compare that to Frank, while his Ortg is about 9 worse, his Drtg is more than 10 better, so his NetRtg while still not positive (common for rookies) is better than Burke's. He also causes opponents to shoot 3% worse in a statistically significant sample size

On/off numbers:

Burke improves our Ortg by 4.2 when he's on the court, but diminishes our Drtg by 9.2 for a -5 NetRtg difference overall. Compared to Frank who makes our Ortg 5.1 worse but improves our Drtg by 5.5 giving us a +.5 Netrtg

Frank improves our assist% by 1.4% when he's on the court, compared to Trey "unselfish" Burke who decreases it by 3.3%

Pretty much every advanced stat shows that Frank has a more positive presence on the court than Burke, but some people only see ppg as the indicator of impact

We as a team would be far better off starting Frank and letting Burke be the 6th man type of iso scorer, which he can definitely do.

[Da ThRONe]

But that's exactly the same logic you use when you talk about defensive ratings as they are based on the team defense and sample size as Burke time on the court has been limited(especially when you consider the amount of meaningful time).

What do you mean? I'm using the sample size of the whole season when I bring up that our defense is way worse with Burke on compared to him off. Red Vines is being disingenuous when he cherry picked his stat of Burke playing 15+ minutes in our 3 wins, because he completely overlooks that Burke played 28+ minutes against Denver in a loss.

Our defense for the entire season is better with Frank on court compared to him off. Our offense is also worse, but the defensive positives outweigh our lack of offense.

There's more to the game of basketball than just offense.

Also, we have a significant sample size for Burke, y'know, cause he's in his 5th year

His best Drtg is 102.9, which is what JJ Redick's Drtg this year. So his best year he was below average. He's also never averaged a negative DefFG%, actually that stat's gotten worse since his rookie year, and this year it is negative, but again, small sample size

Never had a positive NetRTG, and his best Ortg was his rookie year at 104.2

Compare that to Frank, while his Ortg is about 9 worse, his Drtg is more than 10 better, so his NetRtg while still not positive (common for rookies) is better than Burke's. He also causes opponents to shoot 3% worse in a statistically significant sample size

On/off numbers:

Burke improves our Ortg by 4.2 when he's on the court, but diminishes our Drtg by 9.2 for a -5 NetRtg difference overall. Compared to Frank who makes our Ortg 5.1 worse but improves our Drtg by 5.5 giving us a +.5 Netrtg

Frank improves our assist% by 1.4% when he's on the court, compared to Trey "unselfish" Burke who decreases it by 3.3%

Pretty much every advanced stat shows that Frank has a more positive presence on the court than Burke, but some people only see ppg as the indicator of impact

We as a team would be far better off starting Frank and letting Burke be the 6th man type of iso scorer, which he can definitely do.

Again Ntilikina has had more time with better player. He's clearly not a better player than Burke. Things like offensive and defensive ratings are highly questionable because a player could literally do nothing on either end and have an decent to good rating based on his teammates output.

[DOT]

What do you mean? I'm using the sample size of the whole season when I bring up that our defense is way worse with Burke on compared to him off. Red Vines is being disingenuous when he cherry picked his stat of Burke playing 15+ minutes in our 3 wins, because he completely overlooks that Burke played 28+ minutes against Denver in a loss.

Our defense for the entire season is better with Frank on court compared to him off. Our offense is also worse, but the defensive positives outweigh our lack of offense.

There's more to the game of basketball than just offense.

Also, we have a significant sample size for Burke, y'know, cause he's in his 5th year

His best Drtg is 102.9, which is what JJ Redick's Drtg this year. So his best year he was below average. He's also never averaged a negative DefFG%, actually that stat's gotten worse since his rookie year, and this year it is negative, but again, small sample size

Never had a positive NetRTG, and his best Ortg was his rookie year at 104.2

Compare that to Frank, while his Ortg is about 9 worse, his Drtg is more than 10 better, so his NetRtg while still not positive (common for rookies) is better than Burke's. He also causes opponents to shoot 3% worse in a statistically significant sample size

On/off numbers:

Burke improves our Ortg by 4.2 when he's on the court, but diminishes our Drtg by 9.2 for a -5 NetRtg difference overall. Compared to Frank who makes our Ortg 5.1 worse but improves our Drtg by 5.5 giving us a +.5 Netrtg

Frank improves our assist% by 1.4% when he's on the court, compared to Trey "unselfish" Burke who decreases it by 3.3%

Pretty much every advanced stat shows that Frank has a more positive presence on the court than Burke, but some people only see ppg as the indicator of impact

We as a team would be far better off starting Frank and letting Burke be the 6th man type of iso scorer, which he can definitely do.

Again Ntilikina has had more time with better player. He's clearly not a better player than Burke. Things like offensive and defensive ratings are highly questionable because a player could literally do nothing on either end and have an decent to good rating based on his teammates output.

Frank's top 5 most played with minutes:
McDermott
Beasley
KOQ
Lee
Hardaway

Burke's top 5
Beasley
McDermott
Lee
Hardaway
KOQ

So literally they play with the same teammates during their time on court

And what's your excuse for the 4 years of data we have on Burke from before he got here?

Like I said, you're only looking at ppg to determine who's the better player. You don't watch defense, and you don't see how the offense operates, only which one can create more shots for themselves, which is a terrible way of determining overall quality. Literally every stat shows that we'd be better off with Frank instead of Burke.

[Da ThRONe]

Also, we have a significant sample size for Burke, y'know, cause he's in his 5th year

His best Drtg is 102.9, which is what JJ Redick's Drtg this year. So his best year he was below average. He's also never averaged a negative DefFG%, actually that stat's gotten worse since his rookie year, and this year it is negative, but again, small sample size

Never had a positive NetRTG, and his best Ortg was his rookie year at 104.2

Compare that to Frank, while his Ortg is about 9 worse, his Drtg is more than 10 better, so his NetRtg while still not positive (common for rookies) is better than Burke's. He also causes opponents to shoot 3% worse in a statistically significant sample size

On/off numbers:

Burke improves our Ortg by 4.2 when he's on the court, but diminishes our Drtg by 9.2 for a -5 NetRtg difference overall. Compared to Frank who makes our Ortg 5.1 worse but improves our Drtg by 5.5 giving us a +.5 Netrtg

Frank improves our assist% by 1.4% when he's on the court, compared to Trey "unselfish" Burke who decreases it by 3.3%

Pretty much every advanced stat shows that Frank has a more positive presence on the court than Burke, but some people only see ppg as the indicator of impact

We as a team would be far better off starting Frank and letting Burke be the 6th man type of iso scorer, which he can definitely do.

Again Ntilikina has had more time with better player. He's clearly not a better player than Burke. Things like offensive and defensive ratings are highly questionable because a player could literally do nothing on either end and have an decent to good rating based on his teammates output.

Frank's top 5 most played with minutes:
McDermott
Beasley
KOQ
Lee
Hardaway

Burke's top 5
Beasley
McDermott
Lee
Hardaway
KOQ

So literally they play with the same teammates during their time on court

And what's your excuse for the 4 years of data we have on Burke from before he got here?

Like I said, you're only looking at ppg to determine who's the better player. You don't watch defense, and you don't see how the offense operates, only which one can create more shots for themselves, which is a terrible way of determining overall quality. Literally every stat shows that we'd be better off with Frank instead of Burke.

Ppg are you serious? Assist%, turnover%, FG%, 3pt%, eFG%, WS, WS/48, PER,TS%,

[NJ-NYK-17]

I'm more interested in Dotson getting minutes than Burke

[Grinditout]

Can we also hire some development coaches for them as well, I’m sure they can afford to.

[Red Vines]

Can we also hire some development coaches for them as well, I’m sure they can afford to.

Called the GLeague.

[DaGawd]

I'm more interested in Dotson getting minutes than Burke

This. It's so irritating how we seem to forget about him. And he produces whenever given the opportunity