Re: The French Prince, Moody, and AI Jr.-Post Allstar Break Edition
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:04 pm
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dakomish23 wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:dakomish23 wrote:
Great video HW. You’re still a believer right?
Absolutely. 100%. No doubt about it. Just have a little patience. Frank is going to be fine. It'll be worth the wait imo.
I’m still a believer. I see new things the kid does every game and am looking fwd to when he puts it together.
I’m all about the long game right the next few years
GONYK wrote:dakomish23 wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:
Absolutely. 100%. No doubt about it. Just have a little patience. Frank is going to be fine. It'll be worth the wait imo.
I’m still a believer. I see new things the kid does every game and am looking fwd to when he puts it together.
I’m all about the long game right the next few years
He's already the best defensive PnR guard in the league, but people are claiming that he has no real NBA skill
Dantares wrote:
statistical noise like his plus/minus and on and off splits. vallen said he doesn't have an impact on the floor because he can't score, it's true.
fatalogic wrote:Dantares wrote:
statistical noise like his plus/minus and on and off splits. vallen said he doesn't have an impact on the floor because he can't score, it's true.
Being an elite defender is not statistical noise. Ask the Thunder what it's like to play without an elite defender. They are a totally different team without Roberson. Frank still has upside to improve his offensive game.
dakomish23 wrote:GONYK wrote:dakomish23 wrote:
I’m still a believer. I see new things the kid does every game and am looking fwd to when he puts it together.
I’m all about the long game right the next few years
He's already the best defensive PnR guard in the league, but people are claiming that he has no real NBA skill
He’s also shown positive flashes at using the PnR to create for himself or others
I don’t get the hate.
GONYK wrote:And people want to trade him for a late Lottery pick
Nazrmohamed wrote:GONYK wrote:And people want to trade him for a late Lottery picklevendis wrote:
lol that's beyond nuts. He's 19... jesus.
There are 19 yr olds in the late lottery. Just because a player is Young does not garauntee you he'll be what you believe his potential will be.
In fact you have no idea what his potential should be. So I can't say it's a crazy idea. Do you wake up and say "I must trade this guy"? Maybe not but paint yourself some scenarios.
I'm not an idealist. There's not a single move type that hasn't been done with success or total failure. So no, I don't believe there are rules or things you can't do or always must do in every position. So putting aside your probable rule to never trade 19yr olds let's talk actual names.
Tell me right now. If Young slipped to 9 and then someone told you they'd trade you pick 13 which happens to be Miles Bridges you wouldn't highly consider that for a PG struggling to disti guish himself from Mudiay and Burke, who also may not even end up at PG in two yrs?
Forget, "people wanna trade him for a late lotto pick" and actually think "who would I pick in the late lottery?" I'll let you perform the excersize and you don't even have to share it, but I'm just saying I can probably trust you to find a solid combination with two lottery picks, especially understanding the caveat that currently none of our pgs stand out.
You could make a solid case even if Frank was better than what he is now. So what? I have 3 Pgs and 0 SFs. I'd like to balance out my prospect pool
GONYK wrote:Nazrmohamed wrote:GONYK wrote:And people want to trade him for a late Lottery pick
There are 19 yr olds in the late lottery. Just because a player is Young does not garauntee you he'll be what you believe his potential will be.
In fact you have no idea what his potential should be. So I can't say it's a crazy idea. Do you wake up and say "I must trade this guy"? Maybe not but paint yourself some scenarios.
I'm not an idealist. There's not a single move type that hasn't been done with success or total failure. So no, I don't believe there are rules or things you can't do or always must do in every position. So putting aside your probable rule to never trade 19yr olds let's talk actual names.
Tell me right now. If Young slipped to 9 and then someone told you they'd trade you pick 13 which happens to be Miles Bridges you wouldn't highly consider that for a PG struggling to disti guish himself from Mudiay and Burke, who also may not even end up at PG in two yrs?
Forget, "people wanna trade him for a late lotto pick" and actually think "who would I pick in the late lottery?" I'll let you perform the excersize and you don't even have to share it, but I'm just saying I can probably trust you to find a solid combination with two lottery picks, especially understanding the caveat that currently none of our pgs stand out.
You could make a solid case even if Frank was better than what he is now. So what? I have 3 Pgs and 0 SFs. I'd like to balance out my prospect pool
Who is talking about potential? Frank is a top defensive PG in the league right now.
I'm not objecting to trading a 19 yr old as a hard and fast rule. I'm objecting to trading a 19 yr old who has already proven to be elite at something very important just for the chance at another 19 yr old.
In terms of actual players in this draft, I think the draft is pretty weak overall outside of the top 5, so I personally would have trouble crafting a scenario where two lotto picks is worth it, over just pairing another young guy with Frank.
In your scenario, if I liked Miles Bridges, I'd just draft him at 9 and call it a day. Pick up a solid PG in the high 2nd round.
Nazrmohamed wrote:GONYK wrote:Nazrmohamed wrote:
There are 19 yr olds in the late lottery. Just because a player is Young does not garauntee you he'll be what you believe his potential will be.
In fact you have no idea what his potential should be. So I can't say it's a crazy idea. Do you wake up and say "I must trade this guy"? Maybe not but paint yourself some scenarios.
I'm not an idealist. There's not a single move type that hasn't been done with success or total failure. So no, I don't believe there are rules or things you can't do or always must do in every position. So putting aside your probable rule to never trade 19yr olds let's talk actual names.
Tell me right now. If Young slipped to 9 and then someone told you they'd trade you pick 13 which happens to be Miles Bridges you wouldn't highly consider that for a PG struggling to disti guish himself from Mudiay and Burke, who also may not even end up at PG in two yrs?
Forget, "people wanna trade him for a late lotto pick" and actually think "who would I pick in the late lottery?" I'll let you perform the excersize and you don't even have to share it, but I'm just saying I can probably trust you to find a solid combination with two lottery picks, especially understanding the caveat that currently none of our pgs stand out.
You could make a solid case even if Frank was better than what he is now. So what? I have 3 Pgs and 0 SFs. I'd like to balance out my prospect pool
Who is talking about potential? Frank is a top defensive PG in the league right now.
I'm not objecting to trading a 19 yr old as a hard and fast rule. I'm objecting to trading a 19 yr old who has already proven to be elite at something very important just for the chance at another 19 yr old.
In terms of actual players in this draft, I think the draft is pretty weak overall outside of the top 5, so I personally would have trouble crafting a scenario where two lotto picks is worth it, over just pairing another young guy with Frank.
In your scenario, if I liked Miles Bridges, I'd just draft him at 9 and call it a day. Pick up a solid PG in the high 2nd round.
Fair enough, you played along. Nobody is offering a late lottery pick for Frank so it's all fantasy anyway. I'd just hate to do nothing and in a year or two he's being developed at SG, which we're already starting to see, which essentially nullifies this defensive skill you are touting.
Now all of a sudden you've drafted a player with the cieling of Avery Bradley at pic 8
CharlesOakley wrote:You guys pretend that the lottery is a sure thing. If you look just at 1st picks in the last 20 years we see, Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Bargnani, Greg Oden and Anthony Bennett. That is more than 25% busts with the first pick.
We also have too many posters that undervalue the defensive side of the game. Having a 19-year-old who is one of the best on-ball defenders in the game is huge. Defense still wins championships. Assuming that neither his offense nor his defense (?!?!) is going to improve in the next couple of seasons is shockingly stupid.
CharlesOakley wrote:You guys pretend that the lottery is a sure thing. If you look just at 1st picks in the last 20 years we see, Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Bargnani, Greg Oden and Anthony Bennett. That is more than 25% busts with the first pick.
We also have too many posters that undervalue the defensive side of the game. Having a 19-year-old who is one of the best on-ball defenders in the game is huge. Defense still wins championships. Assuming that neither his offense nor his defense (?!?!) is going to improve in the next couple of seasons is shockingly stupid.
GONYK wrote:CharlesOakley wrote:You guys pretend that the lottery is a sure thing. If you look just at 1st picks in the last 20 years we see, Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Bargnani, Greg Oden and Anthony Bennett. That is more than 25% busts with the first pick.
We also have too many posters that undervalue the defensive side of the game. Having a 19-year-old who is one of the best on-ball defenders in the game is huge. Defense still wins championships. Assuming that neither his offense nor his defense (?!?!) is going to improve in the next couple of seasons is shockingly stupid.
This is nuts to me. People have spent the last 8 years complaining about Felton, Calderon, and Rose being absolute shotgun wounds on the perimeter defensively, and now that we have a kid who is elite at it, it doesn't matter.
CharlesOakley wrote:You guys pretend that the lottery is a sure thing. If you look just at 1st picks in the last 20 years we see, Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Bargnani, Greg Oden and Anthony Bennett. That is more than 25% busts with the first pick.
We also have too many posters that undervalue the defensive side of the game. Having a 19-year-old who is one of the best on-ball defenders in the game is huge. Defense still wins championships. Assuming that neither his offense nor his defense (?!?!) is going to improve in the next couple of seasons is shockingly stupid.
Nazrmohamed wrote:GONYK wrote:CharlesOakley wrote:You guys pretend that the lottery is a sure thing. If you look just at 1st picks in the last 20 years we see, Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Bargnani, Greg Oden and Anthony Bennett. That is more than 25% busts with the first pick.
We also have too many posters that undervalue the defensive side of the game. Having a 19-year-old who is one of the best on-ball defenders in the game is huge. Defense still wins championships. Assuming that neither his offense nor his defense (?!?!) is going to improve in the next couple of seasons is shockingly stupid.
This is nuts to me. People have spent the last 8 years complaining about Felton, Calderon, and Rose being absolute shotgun wounds on the perimeter defensively, and now that we have a kid who is elite at it, it doesn't matter.
Renaldo Balkman and Iman Shumpert were great defenders. You know what happened. I'd like for Frank to develop his offensive game so he doesn't meet the same fate. Thing about defense alone is that no one player can change a teams defense so eventually people start doubting the impact of your only skill
Jared Jeffries was actually a good defender
Balkman was actually a good defender
Shumpert was actually a good defender
They never improved elsewhere and by the time they were gone people started thinking thier defense was even overrated. Kid doesn't have to average 20. But damn, can I get on be single 20pt game to show me he's even capable of it? I think his season high is 13 pts. I've seen guys average 5 pts thier rookie yr but get a 20pt game a few times. Later on they averaged 15-20. It's rare that somebody averages 5 points by literally consistently scoring 5 points every game and then incrementally raises that average. Not to mention his assist totals are non existent too.
What concerns me is this isn't a playoff team where he gets no minutes. He gets a ton of minutes. He's gotta ramp up the aggressiveness.
mpharris36 wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:GONYK wrote:CharlesOakley wrote:You guys pretend that the lottery is a sure thing. If you look just at 1st picks in the last 20 years we see, Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Bargnani, Greg Oden and Anthony Bennett. That is more than 25% busts with the first pick.
We also have too many posters that undervalue the defensive side of the game. Having a 19-year-old who is one of the best on-ball defenders in the game is huge. Defense still wins championships. Assuming that neither his offense nor his defense (?!?!) is going to improve in the next couple of seasons is shockingly stupid.
This is nuts to me. People have spent the last 8 years complaining about Felton, Calderon, and Rose being absolute shotgun wounds on the perimeter defensively, and now that we have a kid who is elite at it, it doesn't matter.
Renaldo Balkman and Iman Shumpert were great defenders. You know what happened. I'd like for Frank to develop his offensive game so he doesn't meet the same fate. Thing about defense alone is that no one player can change a teams defense so eventually people start doubting the impact of your only skill
Jared Jeffries was actually a good defender
Balkman was actually a good defender
Shumpert was actually a good defender
They never improved elsewhere and by the time they were gone people started thinking thier defense was even overrated. Kid doesn't have to average 20. But damn, can I get on be single 20pt game to show me he's even capable of it? I think his season high is 13 pts. I've seen guys average 5 pts thier rookie yr but get a 20pt game a few times. Later on they averaged 15-20. It's rare that somebody averages 5 points by literally consistently scoring 5 points every game and then incrementally raises that average. Not to mention his assist totals are non existent too.
What concerns me is this isn't a playoff team where he gets no minutes. He gets a ton of minutes. He's gotta ramp up the aggressiveness.