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2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 8th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3)

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If The Knicks pick OUTSIDE top 4 (Bags, Doncic, Ayton, Bamba off board)

Mikal Bridges
37
33%
Miles Bridges
3
3%
Michael Porter Jr
32
28%
Trae Young
10
9%
Jaren Jackson Jr
12
11%
Kevin Knox
1
1%
Wendell Carter
4
4%
Colin Sexton
10
9%
Robert Williams
0
No votes
Other
4
4%
 
Total votes: 113

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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#701 » by GONYK » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:03 pm

I honestly don't see how you have a winning team on the NBA level with Trae Young as your starter. Maybe he can eventually become a Lou Williams type off the bench, but I wouldn't spend a lottery pick on that.

He's gotta boom hard to overcome his weaknesses and physical shortcomings, IMO.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#702 » by K P 6 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:09 pm

GONYK wrote:I honestly don't see how you have a winning team on the NBA level with Trae Young as your starter. Maybe he can eventually become a Lou Williams type off the bench, but I wouldn't spend a lottery pick on that.

He's gotta boom hard to overcome his weaknesses and physical shortcomings, IMO.

I know Mudiay does not have his offensive ability but he's 6'5 205. Ask Mudiay how hard it is to finish among the trees.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#703 » by whocares1 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:30 pm

GONYK wrote:I honestly don't see how you have a winning team on the NBA level with Trae Young as your starter. Maybe he can eventually become a Lou Williams type off the bench, but I wouldn't spend a lottery pick on that.

He's gotta boom hard to overcome his weaknesses and physical shortcomings, IMO.

Easy. Just have elite defenders at the 2-3-5 and he'd be fine. His size is his weakness, but the kid has handles, shooting, and vision. Lou Williams is just a microwave scorer.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#704 » by GONYK » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:37 pm

whocares1 wrote:
GONYK wrote:I honestly don't see how you have a winning team on the NBA level with Trae Young as your starter. Maybe he can eventually become a Lou Williams type off the bench, but I wouldn't spend a lottery pick on that.

He's gotta boom hard to overcome his weaknesses and physical shortcomings, IMO.

Easy. Just have elite defenders at the 2-3-5 and he'd be fine. His size is his weakness, but the kid has handles, shooting, and vision. Lou Williams is just a microwave scorer.


That's easy? Isn't it much easier to select a more well-rounded player? That way, you don't have to build your roster around hiding a debilitating flaw?

Outside of shooting, what is Trae bringing to the table that SGA isn't?
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#706 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:10 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:I really dont understand the young hate a 9.

I just dont.


The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#707 » by shtolky » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:15 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:I really dont understand the young hate a 9.

I just dont.


The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)



I'm not going to get into Trae vs. Steph from a game standpoint, but one thing you can't discount is that Trae is playing against far, far better competition than Curry did. Huge difference between the Big 12 and the Southern Conference.

I think it's a lock he goes top 10.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#708 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:I really dont understand the young hate a 9.

I just dont.


The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)
ill be deeply disappointed if we draft a 1 way player at the point
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#709 » by YouthMovement » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:22 pm

This past week has changed my opinion to Sexton>trae
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#710 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:27 pm

shtolky wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:I really dont understand the young hate a 9.

I just dont.


The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)



I'm not going to get into Trae vs. Steph from a game standpoint, but one thing you can't discount is that Trae is playing against far, far better competition than Curry did. Huge difference between the Big 12 and the Southern Conference.

I think it's a lock he goes top 10.


That's fair. But I think there are more differences between Steph and Trae besides production. For example does anyone think Trae would allow his teammates to essentially play 4 on 3 like Curry did at Davidson when some idiot coach decided to double team him no matter what? It showed a level of maturity/game situation IQ to Steph that I don't think Trae has shown at all in his time at Oklahoma.... I don't think he's a lock to go top 10 at all. His measurables are really going to underwhelm IMO and combine that with inconsistent play and a general trend downwards to end the season and I think that only exacerbates the issues people are going to have with his physique.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#711 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:28 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:I really dont understand the young hate a 9.

I just dont.


The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)
ill be deeply disappointed if we draft a 1 way player at the point


I think pidgeonholeing yourself into only drafting certain types of players is a dangerous game to play. Most of these guys are going to come into the league as bad defenders anyway
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#712 » by El Poochio » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:28 pm

I come from the future where the only way to beat some of these most advanced defensive systems is launching it from Curry range, Træ more chance to improve in there than any other player and being small and quick is better than being being bigger and less quick to find space to score against these most advanced defensive systems
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B: Træ Young | Jeremy Lin
B: CJ McCollum | Norman Powell | Melvin Frazier
B: Devin Booker | Mikal Bridges | Svi Mykhailiuk
B: Kyle Kuzma | Andre Iguodala | Omari Spellman
B: Bruno Caboclo | Aron Baynes | Daniel Theis

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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#713 » by El Poochio » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:38 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:I really dont understand the young hate a 9.

I just dont.


The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)


Comes down to how legit you think Træ's whole season was, numbers are incredible when you look at the season as an whole unless you see it as just some hot steak with couple of 40 point explosions inflating the numbers
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#714 » by malik959 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:48 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
spree8 wrote:
malik959 wrote:Man do you guys ever stop complaining about having a point guard who plays no defense, yet wanting to draft another one? We have an opportunity to draft at position of need that would give us a great two way player. Why give up on a 19 year old kid that defends better than anyone in the league at his position. He's 19! Your not giving him time to improve. His shot is ultra smooth and only needs slight adjustments, he may not be the fastest, but his footwork and change of direction is a work of art. His main issues are confidence and aggressiveness and that'll come with time.

Mikal to me would be the best fit for this team which would help greatly on defense and give us a much needed scorer on offense that does not have to have the ball in his hands at all times, can hit shots off of screens with the best of them, and is one of the top athletes in this draft. Mikal shows a lot of similarities to Tatum which would have been a perfect fit for this team. Right now we're stuck with either going with defense and no offense (Thomas) or offense and no defense (Beasley ).

I'm sorry, but getting a score first point guard that can't defend a log is not the answer for success, it strides towards the road to failure. You can have the two best defenders in the game in your line-up and put the worst defender next to them and it'll drop your team defense every time because they constantly have to come off their guys to help out
.



Steph Curry is a score 1st pg and isn’t a good defender, but had Draymond and Klay (two great defenders) and their team defense was fine.

Steph, Kyrie, and TParker are some score first/no defense playing pg’s who’ve won titles the last 4 years. Jus sayin.


Steph is a good defender.


Both Kyrie and Steph pick up their defense when needed, but Green and Klay are not the only Allstar defenders on their team. They have four great defenders and one that can hold his own in the starting lineup (plus two off the bench.) We have two in the starting lineup, inwhich one we don't even know if he'll be as solid as before the injury. We're hurting on defense more than offense, with a healthy KP our offense is not bad, add Mikal and it will be better, but our defense would be top.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#715 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:48 pm

El Poochio wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:I really dont understand the young hate a 9.

I just dont.


The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)


Comes down to how legit you think Træ's whole season was, numbers are incredible when you look at the season as an whole unless you see it as just some hot steak with couple of 40 point explosions inflating the numbers


I think the differential of his conference stats vs. his stats against all opponents is really damning for Trae. Once he faced better competition consistently he wore down and his numbers are ugly.... Bad sign there for a guy who is mainly getting drafted high because of his high production level IMO
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#716 » by 2010 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:55 pm

El Poochio wrote:KNICKS WILL TRADE NTILIKINA AND THEIR DRAFT PICK FOR KAWHI LEONARD

KNICKS BRASS LOOK FOR ANOTHER STAR PLAYER NEXT YEAR TO SELL SEASON TICKETS WHEN KP IS OUT

THEY SEE KAWHI AS THE PERFECT WELCOME GIFT FOR DAVID BLATT WHO IS SET TO TAKE OVER

DAVID BLATT WILL BRING BRAD WANAMAKER AND WILL CLYBURN WITH HIM TO NEW YORK

THEY TARGET KEMBA WALKER AND THINK KEMBA KAWHI WILL CONVINCE KP TO STAY


Kawhi recently announced he is coming back this season and he wants to spend his entire career with San Antonio.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#717 » by HEZI » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:58 pm

Trae Young wore down as the season got older. His situation is similar to Porzingis in the way that his body isn't strong enough right now and the drop in his production is a result of high usage over a longer period of time, body not being strong enough and the defense adjusting to him. All things we've seen happen to Porzingis. Oklahoma can't even bring the ball up the court without him, he basically has to juke and fake and shake two defenders off of him just to get open for an inbound pass. That's why his shot has looked flat over the last few weeks, the legs are just not as fresh as they used to be. Kid needs to get stronger that's for sure but he also needs some help around him.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#718 » by shtolky » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:01 pm

2010 wrote:
El Poochio wrote:KNICKS WILL TRADE NTILIKINA AND THEIR DRAFT PICK FOR KAWHI LEONARD

KNICKS BRASS LOOK FOR ANOTHER STAR PLAYER NEXT YEAR TO SELL SEASON TICKETS WHEN KP IS OUT

THEY SEE KAWHI AS THE PERFECT WELCOME GIFT FOR DAVID BLATT WHO IS SET TO TAKE OVER

DAVID BLATT WILL BRING BRAD WANAMAKER AND WILL CLYBURN WITH HIM TO NEW YORK

THEY TARGET KEMBA WALKER AND THINK KEMBA KAWHI WILL CONVINCE KP TO STAY


Kawhi recently announced he is coming back this season and he wants to spend his entire career with San Antonio.



Kawhi saying that doesn't really mean much. Durant said the same thing about OKC in 2015 and look what happened. I mean I doubt he leaves, but it's not far fetched given how things are suddenly going in SA.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#719 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:04 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)
ill be deeply disappointed if we draft a 1 way player at the point


I think pidgeonholeing yourself into only drafting certain types of players is a dangerous game to play. Most of these guys are going to come into the league as bad defenders anyway

i think drafting a bad defender and hoping he turns into a real defender is also a dangerous game

is Trae significantly different from Jimmer coming into the league? Better passer, sure.
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Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#720 » by 2010 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:04 pm

shtolky wrote:
2010 wrote:
El Poochio wrote:KNICKS WILL TRADE NTILIKINA AND THEIR DRAFT PICK FOR KAWHI LEONARD

KNICKS BRASS LOOK FOR ANOTHER STAR PLAYER NEXT YEAR TO SELL SEASON TICKETS WHEN KP IS OUT

THEY SEE KAWHI AS THE PERFECT WELCOME GIFT FOR DAVID BLATT WHO IS SET TO TAKE OVER

DAVID BLATT WILL BRING BRAD WANAMAKER AND WILL CLYBURN WITH HIM TO NEW YORK

THEY TARGET KEMBA WALKER AND THINK KEMBA KAWHI WILL CONVINCE KP TO STAY


Kawhi recently announced he is coming back this season and he wants to spend his entire career with San Antonio.



Kawhi saying that doesn't really mean much. Durant said the same thing about OKC in 2015 and look what happened. I mean I doubt he leaves, but it's not far fetched given how things are suddenly going in SA.


I wouldn't put my money on him being traded and even if he was for Popovich to be willing to give him up for Frank Ntilikina and a pick would likely mean he was damaged goods. If the real Kawhi were being traded he would fetch a far better offer.
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