ImageImageImageImageImage

2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 8th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3)

Moderators: moocow007, magnumt, Jeff Van Gully, NoLayupRule, Thugger HBC, King of Canada, j4remi, mpharris36, Thorn, Deeeez Knicks, Capn'O, GONYK, K-DOT, mrpoetryNmotion

If The Knicks pick OUTSIDE top 4 (Bags, Doncic, Ayton, Bamba off board)

Mikal Bridges
37
33%
Miles Bridges
3
3%
Michael Porter Jr
32
28%
Trae Young
10
9%
Jaren Jackson Jr
12
11%
Kevin Knox
1
1%
Wendell Carter
4
4%
Colin Sexton
10
9%
Robert Williams
0
No votes
Other
4
4%
 
Total votes: 113

User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 46,649
And1: 9,188
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#721 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:05 pm

shtolky wrote:
2010 wrote:
El Poochio wrote:KNICKS WILL TRADE NTILIKINA AND THEIR DRAFT PICK FOR KAWHI LEONARD

KNICKS BRASS LOOK FOR ANOTHER STAR PLAYER NEXT YEAR TO SELL SEASON TICKETS WHEN KP IS OUT

THEY SEE KAWHI AS THE PERFECT WELCOME GIFT FOR DAVID BLATT WHO IS SET TO TAKE OVER

DAVID BLATT WILL BRING BRAD WANAMAKER AND WILL CLYBURN WITH HIM TO NEW YORK

THEY TARGET KEMBA WALKER AND THINK KEMBA KAWHI WILL CONVINCE KP TO STAY


Kawhi recently announced he is coming back this season and he wants to spend his entire career with San Antonio.



Kawhi saying that doesn't really mean much. Durant said the same thing about OKC in 2015 and look what happened. I mean I doubt he leaves, but it's not far fetched given how things are suddenly going in SA.

despite the cap lock it'll never happen

however KP and Kawhi would be perfect together
User avatar
spree8
RealGM
Posts: 10,101
And1: 2,869
Joined: Jun 05, 2001
Location: Jersey + Miami
     

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#722 » by spree8 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:14 pm

malik959 wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
spree8 wrote:

Steph Curry is a score 1st pg and isn’t a good defender, but had Draymond and Klay (two great defenders) and their team defense was fine.

Steph, Kyrie, and TParker are some score first/no defense playing pg’s who’ve won titles the last 4 years. Jus sayin.


Steph is a good defender.


Both Kyrie and Steph pick up their defense when needed, but Green and Klay are not the only Allstar defenders on their team. They have four great defenders and one that can hold his own in the starting lineup (plus two off the bench.) We have two in the starting lineup, inwhich one we don't even know if he'll be as solid as before the injury. We're hurting on defense more than offense, with a healthy KP our offense is not bad, add Mikal and it will be better, but our defense would be top.



My only point is you don’t need a pg that is great at defense. Hell, we have one already, but he’s not good on offense, and that’s a bigger problem.

With regard to Steph, I was just responding to the “you can have two of the best defenders in the game in your lineup and your team defense would be worse” and Klay and Dray are two of the best in the league. Didn’t count Durant cuz they still won a title before him, and didn’t count Iggy cuz you only mentioned lineup.

This isn’t really a big deal, and I get what you’re saying, but pg is the least concern when it comes to defense... that’s all I’m sayin. Top pg’s drop 30-50 points on each other all the time and their teams are still tops in the league (GSW, OKC, BOS, POR, HOU/when Harden was pg, etc).

But yea, Mikal is prob the best pick for this team. Getting someone like him, and a top scoring pg like Kemba via 19’ FA would put this team in the playoffs with a chance to have a 99’ type run to the top. Provided we have a better coach.
Def Jam

2pac. Eminem. Big Pun. Nicki Minaj. Dr. Dre

AZ. Scarface. Method Man. Redman. R Kelly. Beatnuts

Talib Kweli. De La Soul. Naughty By Nature. Joe

Image
User avatar
Knicksfan1992
General Manager
Posts: 8,878
And1: 6,911
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
         

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#723 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:14 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:ill be deeply disappointed if we draft a 1 way player at the point


I think pidgeonholeing yourself into only drafting certain types of players is a dangerous game to play. Most of these guys are going to come into the league as bad defenders anyway

i think drafting a bad defender and hoping he turns into a real defender is also a dangerous game

is Trae significantly different from Jimmer coming into the league? Better passer, sure.


I'm on your side with Trae. Let me just clarify that first.... I just think not drafting a guy because his main weakness is defense when that can be covered up especially on the perimeter is a flawed way to view prospect IMO. Defense in the nba is scheme based mostly especially with the new rules pretty much limiting as much contact as possible on the perimeter. It's how Thibs got away with having an elite defense with Rose at pg (yuck)
OKC
G-Dame
G- Lavine
F- Covington
F- A. Gordon
C- T. Thompson

-Wesley Matthews
-Bojan Bogdanovic
-Ersan Ilyasova
-Dewayne Dedmon
-Grayson Allen
-Shelvin Mack
-Nemanja Bjelica
-Justin Jackson
-Ron Baker
-Tyler Dorsey

Exempt
-Edmond Sumner
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 54,609
And1: 20,675
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#724 » by GONYK » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:21 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
I think pidgeonholeing yourself into only drafting certain types of players is a dangerous game to play. Most of these guys are going to come into the league as bad defenders anyway

i think drafting a bad defender and hoping he turns into a real defender is also a dangerous game

is Trae significantly different from Jimmer coming into the league? Better passer, sure.


I'm on your side with Trae. Let me just clarify that first.... I just think not drafting a guy because his main weakness is defense when that can be covered up especially on the perimeter is a flawed way to view prospect IMO. Defense in the nba is scheme based mostly especially with the new rules pretty much limiting as much contact as possible on the perimeter. It's how Thibs got away with having an elite defense with Rose at pg (yuck)


I think that is only true up to a point though. If you're always one switch away from having your defense fall apart, that is a problem.

Rose, though a terrible defender, was at least strong enough to hold his own against either back court position.
User avatar
El Poochio
Knicks Forum Jose Cuervo Man
Posts: 21,747
And1: 11,744
Joined: May 19, 2015
Location: Where The Wild Things Are
         

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#725 » by El Poochio » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:22 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
El Poochio wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
The issue for Trae is based on what he's done, how he's played so far in his life, and some personality reports in the recruiting process....you need to hand the keys to your offense over to him and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective/to be happy. Is he good enough to warrant that at the NBA level? The odds are stacked against him, physically, and it's a bad sign he's showing signs of wearing down and struggling at the NCAA level. I do think the comparisons to Steph are unfair because Steph's growth in the NBA was insane, but Steph never struggled like Trae did in college and was more than willing to be a teammate and allow his teammates to do their thing. I don't see Trae in the same light. People say Oklahoma's supporting cast is trash, but is that entirely their fault or is it more a case of Trae doing too much and not allowing his guys the opportunity to succeed because he needs to get his?

Anyway I think Trae would be a good pick at like 10 or below. Anything above that and it just feels like you're scratching a lottery ticket hoping for the big pay day (steph, lillard etc.) but in reality your probably just going to get a 20 dollar pay out (Like a Trey Burke)


Comes down to how legit you think Træ's whole season was, numbers are incredible when you look at the season as an whole unless you see it as just some hot steak with couple of 40 point explosions inflating the numbers


I think the differential of his conference stats vs. his stats against all opponents is really damning for Trae. Once he faced better competition consistently he wore down and his numbers are ugly.... Bad sign there for a guy who is mainly getting drafted high because of his high production level IMO


Below %30 from 3 against Kansas Texas Tech WVU trio RIP
NewOrleansPelicans

B: Træ Young | Jeremy Lin
B: CJ McCollum | Norman Powell | Melvin Frazier
B: Devin Booker | Mikal Bridges | Svi Mykhailiuk
B: Kyle Kuzma | Andre Iguodala | Gary Clark Jr
B: Bruno Caboclo | Aron Baynes | Daniel Theis | Omari Spellman

C: Chris Finch
dakomish23
RealGM
Posts: 27,476
And1: 15,199
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#726 » by dakomish23 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:40 pm

Trae only shoots 36% from 3?
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


blueNorange wrote:good thing knicks have kanter because willy looking pedestrian af
User avatar
spree8
RealGM
Posts: 10,101
And1: 2,869
Joined: Jun 05, 2001
Location: Jersey + Miami
     

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#727 » by spree8 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:58 pm

GONYK wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:i think drafting a bad defender and hoping he turns into a real defender is also a dangerous game

is Trae significantly different from Jimmer coming into the league? Better passer, sure.


I'm on your side with Trae. Let me just clarify that first.... I just think not drafting a guy because his main weakness is defense when that can be covered up especially on the perimeter is a flawed way to view prospect IMO. Defense in the nba is scheme based mostly especially with the new rules pretty much limiting as much contact as possible on the perimeter. It's how Thibs got away with having an elite defense with Rose at pg (yuck)


I think that is only true up to a point though. If you're always one switch away from having your defense fall apart, that is a problem.

Rose, though a terrible defender, was at least strong enough to hold his own against either back court position.



How can a terrible defender be strong enough to hold their own? Bit of an oxymoron no?
Def Jam

2pac. Eminem. Big Pun. Nicki Minaj. Dr. Dre

AZ. Scarface. Method Man. Redman. R Kelly. Beatnuts

Talib Kweli. De La Soul. Naughty By Nature. Joe

Image
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 54,609
And1: 20,675
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: RE: Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#728 » by GONYK » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:10 pm

spree8 wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
I'm on your side with Trae. Let me just clarify that first.... I just think not drafting a guy because his main weakness is defense when that can be covered up especially on the perimeter is a flawed way to view prospect IMO. Defense in the nba is scheme based mostly especially with the new rules pretty much limiting as much contact as possible on the perimeter. It's how Thibs got away with having an elite defense with Rose at pg (yuck)


I think that is only true up to a point though. If you're always one switch away from having your defense fall apart, that is a problem.

Rose, though a terrible defender, was at least strong enough to hold his own against either back court position.



How can a terrible defender be strong enough to hold their own? Bit of an oxymoron no?


No. I'm talking about physical strength. Rose was terrible because he was lazy and had absolutely no awareness, not because he was physically incapable.
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 46,649
And1: 9,188
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: RE: Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#729 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:18 pm

GONYK wrote:
spree8 wrote:
GONYK wrote:
I think that is only true up to a point though. If you're always one switch away from having your defense fall apart, that is a problem.

Rose, though a terrible defender, was at least strong enough to hold his own against either back court position.



How can a terrible defender be strong enough to hold their own? Bit of an oxymoron no?


No. I'm talking about physical strength. Rose was terrible because he was lazy and had absolutely no awareness, not because he was physically incapable.

Rose was like the Amare of PGs

I saw him make some truly spectacular blocks and steals
the kind that make one think he's a great defender

except 90% of the time he was just watching and not defending


Now I dont know what Trae's BBIQ is on the defense but Im worried about drafting another Jimmer

there are teams who can use a guy who dominates the ball and shoots insane shots

what we need is an unconditional starting quality player

that might come down to luck and ping pong balls and you should draft the best player available.
Perhaps thats Trae
I kinda doubt it though
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 26,725
And1: 18,698
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#730 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:22 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Image
Cavs
PG: Dennis Smith Jr/Kris Dunn/Quinn Cook
SG: Josh Jackson/Donte Divencenzo/Tyrone Wallace
SF: Jayson Tatum/Royce O'Neale
PF: Bam Adebayo/Skal Labissiere/Caleb Swanigan
C: Deandre Ayton/Patrick Patterson/Justin Patton
User avatar
El Poochio
Knicks Forum Jose Cuervo Man
Posts: 21,747
And1: 11,744
Joined: May 19, 2015
Location: Where The Wild Things Are
         

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#731 » by El Poochio » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:25 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Trae only shoots 36% from 3?


Ya I thought it would be lower seeing his recent games thats a great number considering volume, lower than Curry though and with worse form, not sure how they numbers compare for same level of oppo
NewOrleansPelicans

B: Træ Young | Jeremy Lin
B: CJ McCollum | Norman Powell | Melvin Frazier
B: Devin Booker | Mikal Bridges | Svi Mykhailiuk
B: Kyle Kuzma | Andre Iguodala | Gary Clark Jr
B: Bruno Caboclo | Aron Baynes | Daniel Theis | Omari Spellman

C: Chris Finch
User avatar
spree8
RealGM
Posts: 10,101
And1: 2,869
Joined: Jun 05, 2001
Location: Jersey + Miami
     

Re: RE: Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#732 » by spree8 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:29 pm

GONYK wrote:
spree8 wrote:
GONYK wrote:
I think that is only true up to a point though. If you're always one switch away from having your defense fall apart, that is a problem.

Rose, though a terrible defender, was at least strong enough to hold his own against either back court position.



How can a terrible defender be strong enough to hold their own? Bit of an oxymoron no?


No. I'm talking about physical strength. Rose was terrible because he was lazy and had absolutely no awareness, not because he was physically incapable.



Meh, I don’t really think being physically strong as a perimeter defender moves the needle very much if you’re already terrible on defense. In the post maybe, but in Rose’s case... I don’t really see how it helped him enough to give him any type of credit. Lazy and dumb pretty much nullifies everything else. That’s as bad as it gets.
Def Jam

2pac. Eminem. Big Pun. Nicki Minaj. Dr. Dre

AZ. Scarface. Method Man. Redman. R Kelly. Beatnuts

Talib Kweli. De La Soul. Naughty By Nature. Joe

Image
User avatar
K P 6
RealGM
Posts: 40,857
And1: 15,856
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#733 » by K P 6 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:38 pm

I don’t like Trae but he can be one of those chip on the shoulder Mf’s and go off but let’s not make us the team that passes on him thanks.
Image
Ntilikina Gang. Porzinigis Army. Mikal/KNOX MOB.
amit wrote:Frank prime will be like 10 ppg. Hes not that kind of PG and we knew it since he got drafted. Thats why scorers players around frank will be the bast for him
User avatar
spree8
RealGM
Posts: 10,101
And1: 2,869
Joined: Jun 05, 2001
Location: Jersey + Miami
     

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#734 » by spree8 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:44 pm

For the record, I’m not arguing for Trae Young here... I jumped off that wagon a while back, but just sayin scoring pg’s who are weak defensively in general, aren’t as much a liability as some people are making it out to be.
Def Jam

2pac. Eminem. Big Pun. Nicki Minaj. Dr. Dre

AZ. Scarface. Method Man. Redman. R Kelly. Beatnuts

Talib Kweli. De La Soul. Naughty By Nature. Joe

Image
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 46,649
And1: 9,188
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#735 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:53 pm

spree8 wrote:For the record, I’m not arguing for Trae Young here... I jumped off that wagon a while back, but just sayin scoring pg’s who are weak defensively in general, aren’t as much a liability as some people are making it out to be.

i know you're not calling for him as our pick

but i have to disagree with your assertion

we sat though a decade of bad defensive guards. From people like Calderon and Rose most recently

over and over again we have been lit up by the position that most requires talent and which we've most been lacking

thats not to say you can't be an offensive player at the 1 and succeed

its just to say that being a two way player at the 1 is more important to wins vs loss than getting points there

Ill take a lesser two way guard over a more explosive scoring one way guard anyday
User avatar
El Poochio
Knicks Forum Jose Cuervo Man
Posts: 21,747
And1: 11,744
Joined: May 19, 2015
Location: Where The Wild Things Are
         

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#736 » by El Poochio » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:53 pm

spree8 wrote:For the record, I’m not arguing for Trae Young here... I jumped off that wagon a while back, but just sayin scoring pg’s who are weak defensively in general, aren’t as much a liability as some people are making it out to be.


Depends on how good he can be offensively really, no one will draft Træ for his defense

Can he generate enough 3s with his shooting and passing to outscore the 2s he is gonna concede inside with his small self?
NewOrleansPelicans

B: Træ Young | Jeremy Lin
B: CJ McCollum | Norman Powell | Melvin Frazier
B: Devin Booker | Mikal Bridges | Svi Mykhailiuk
B: Kyle Kuzma | Andre Iguodala | Gary Clark Jr
B: Bruno Caboclo | Aron Baynes | Daniel Theis | Omari Spellman

C: Chris Finch
Juco24
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,579
And1: 909
Joined: Feb 12, 2013

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#737 » by Juco24 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:00 pm

Question: can Timmy play sf consistently? If so, Sexton's a good pick. I prefer Mikal but Sexton's not a bad consolation prize if available and one has to available right?
whocares1
Head Coach
Posts: 6,606
And1: 3,493
Joined: Oct 31, 2014
     

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#738 » by whocares1 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:05 pm

Juco24 wrote:Question: can Timmy play sf consistently? If so, Sexton's a good pick. I prefer Mikal but Sexton's not a bad consolation prize if available and one has to available right?


The problem with Sexton is that his vision isn't there, but I really like him. Him and Frank would be a big back court that could switch effortlessly. That ast/to ratio is bad tho. Trae Young is averaging almost 9 assists a game playing with nobody.
Number of games Beasley stupidly wins the Knicks: 0
Trey Burke: 1
Hardaway Jr: 0
User avatar
spree8
RealGM
Posts: 10,101
And1: 2,869
Joined: Jun 05, 2001
Location: Jersey + Miami
     

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#739 » by spree8 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:08 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
spree8 wrote:For the record, I’m not arguing for Trae Young here... I jumped off that wagon a while back, but just sayin scoring pg’s who are weak defensively in general, aren’t as much a liability as some people are making it out to be.

i know you're not calling for him as our pick

but i have to disagree with your assertion

we sat though a decade of bad defensive guards. From people like Calderon and Rose most recently

over and over again we have been lit up by the position that most requires talent and which we've most been lacking

thats not to say you can't be an offensive player at the 1 and succeed

its just to say that being a two way player at the 1 is more important to wins vs loss than getting points there

Ill take a lesser two way guard over a more explosive scoring one way guard anyday



Yea I was sayin earlier that most of the top scoring pg’s in the league don’t defend each other (or others) very well, and light each other up often too... yet some still win titles and other’s team’s sit at the top of the league.

I could see if we had top notch scoring pg’s who weren’t getting it done with a good supporting cast, but like you said, we’ve been stuck with the likes of Calderon and a washed up broken DRose. So it’s not like we’ve had Kyrie or Lillard types and haven’t succeeded.

Who knows, maybe Frank can become a top scoring pg one day who’s already got the defense. He’s got the work ethic, but my doubts grow by the day.
Def Jam

2pac. Eminem. Big Pun. Nicki Minaj. Dr. Dre

AZ. Scarface. Method Man. Redman. R Kelly. Beatnuts

Talib Kweli. De La Soul. Naughty By Nature. Joe

Image
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 26,725
And1: 18,698
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: 2017/18 College & Draft Thread (Pt. 6) - Currently 9th (2.5 back of Top 5, 4 back of Top 3) 

Post#740 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:13 pm

sexton is the guy i want

he got real good handles, can create any shot, acrobatic finisher, plays with a chip on his shoulder. got that killer instinct.

that's the type of point guard im looking for in this modern era of basketball.
Cavs
PG: Dennis Smith Jr/Kris Dunn/Quinn Cook
SG: Josh Jackson/Donte Divencenzo/Tyrone Wallace
SF: Jayson Tatum/Royce O'Neale
PF: Bam Adebayo/Skal Labissiere/Caleb Swanigan
C: Deandre Ayton/Patrick Patterson/Justin Patton

Return to New York Knicks