Enes Kanter's (Lack Of) Impact Article

[Clyde_Style]

What an incredibly bad trade Melo deal turned out to be. The only positive is Kanter is very effective in tanking. If we played OQuinn, Hernangomez and even Noah, we most likely would have a better record now.

The first Melo trade was much worse

Indeed

[dakomish23]

I've been working on this the last few days as a way to bring back some real conversation to the boards (something that it's gone away from recently).

It's looking at Kanter's actual impact - why his defense is bad (videos, synergy), metrics, breaking down of video, and why his impact is nowhere near as large as it might seem going by his box score stats. I don't plan on getting into real back and forths about it with anyone, just thought it would be a nice way to start a conversation. Sure, Kanter puts up points in the paint and rebounds, but the impact isn't there. In terms of helping a team win, an overwhelming amount of metrics point to him being a net negative.

Anyways, here's the link. Hope y'all enjoy.

https://thefrontofficeeye.com/2018/04/02/enes-kanters-actual-impact/

Yeah but do you have a stat for “heart” and “wants to be a Knicks lifer”???

[Clyde_Style]

I've been working on this the last few days as a way to bring back some real conversation to the boards (something that it's gone away from recently).

It's looking at Kanter's actual impact - why his defense is bad (videos, synergy), metrics, breaking down of video, and why his impact is nowhere near as large as it might seem going by his box score stats. I don't plan on getting into real back and forths about it with anyone, just thought it would be a nice way to start a conversation. Sure, Kanter puts up points in the paint and rebounds, but the impact isn't there. In terms of helping a team win, an overwhelming amount of metrics point to him being a net negative.

Anyways, here's the link. Hope y'all enjoy.

https://thefrontofficeeye.com/2018/04/02/enes-kanters-actual-impact/

Yeah but do you have a stat for “heart” and “wants to be a Knicks lifer”???

Does his picture in the Istanbul High yearbook with the caption "Head most likely to be used as a scrub brush" count?

[dakomish23]

What an incredibly bad trade Melo deal turned out to be. The only positive is Kanter is very effective in tanking. If we played OQuinn, Hernangomez and even Noah, we most likely would have a better record now.

The first Melo trade was much worse

The first Melo trade got us 3 years in the playoffs. The only time we went to the playoffs in consecutive years in almost two decades.

This Melo trade got you a sub 30 win season

At least keep the hate in the realm of what happened HW

[dakomish23]

What an incredibly bad trade Melo deal turned out to be. The only positive is Kanter is very effective in tanking. If we played OQuinn, Hernangomez and even Noah, we most likely would have a better record now.

I liked the deal but would of loved it if we got Ferg

What we did after was typical Knicks

[Capn'O]

I'm looking at our options with The Capulator. Fantastic tool. Oh man, did we ever screw our cap with the Noah and Hardaway deals. I almost hope that Kanter opts in so we don't do something dumb and just keep building with trades and the draft.

[Clyde_Style]

I'm looking at our options with The Capulator. Fantastic tool. Oh man, did we ever screw our cap with the Noah and Hardaway deals. I almost hope that Kanter opts in so we don't do something dumb and just keep building with trades and the draft.

A contract calculator? And all this time I thought that is what your wife called you

[Deeeez Knicks]

I'm looking at our options with The Capulator. Fantastic tool. Oh man, did we ever screw our cap with the Noah and Hardaway deals. I almost hope that Kanter opts in so we don't do something dumb and just keep building with trades and the draft.

Yeah, we would probably use that money to overpay Elf or something ike that.

[HarthorneWingo]

What an incredibly bad trade Melo deal turned out to be. The only positive is Kanter is very effective in tanking. If we played OQuinn, Hernangomez and even Noah, we most likely would have a better record now.

The first Melo trade was much worse

The first Melo trade got us 3 years in the playoffs. The only time we went to the playoffs in consecutive years in almost two decades.

This Melo trade got you a sub 30 win season

At least keep the hate in the realm of what happened HW

I don't see any And1s to your post.

[dakomish23]

The first Melo trade was much worse

The first Melo trade got us 3 years in the playoffs. The only time we went to the playoffs in consecutive years in almost two decades.

This Melo trade got you a sub 30 win season

At least keep the hate in the realm of what happened HW

I don't see any And1s to your post.

Easier to blame Melo for everything wrong with this organization for two decades and caters to the Knicks are teflon way of thinking.

I’m surprised you didn’t get 50

[dakomish23]

I'm looking at our options with The Capulator. Fantastic tool. Oh man, did we ever screw our cap with the Noah and Hardaway deals. I almost hope that Kanter opts in so we don't do something dumb and just keep building with trades and the draft.

It's a scary thought that not having cap space would be positive for us

[Capn'O]

I'm looking at our options with The Capulator. Fantastic tool. Oh man, did we ever screw our cap with the Noah and Hardaway deals. I almost hope that Kanter opts in so we don't do something dumb and just keep building with trades and the draft.

It's a scary thought that not having cap space would be positive for us

Isn't it?

We actually get the MLE with the opt in (~8.3 mil) which we don't if he opts out. I trust our staff scraping the bargain bin MUCH more than having 20 mil or so.

[Clyde_Style]

I'm looking at our options with The Capulator. Fantastic tool. Oh man, did we ever screw our cap with the Noah and Hardaway deals. I almost hope that Kanter opts in so we don't do something dumb and just keep building with trades and the draft.

It's a scary thought that not having cap space would be positive for us

Isn't it?

We actually get the MLE with the opt in (~8.3 mil) which we don't if he opts out. I trust our staff scraping the bargain bin MUCH more than having 20 mil or so.

So this is what it has come to for the NY Knicks organization (actually kinda makes sense though)

[dakomish23]

I'm looking at our options with The Capulator. Fantastic tool. Oh man, did we ever screw our cap with the Noah and Hardaway deals. I almost hope that Kanter opts in so we don't do something dumb and just keep building with trades and the draft.

It's a scary thought that not having cap space would be positive for us

Isn't it?

We actually get the MLE with the opt in (~8.3 mil) which we don't if he opts out. I trust our staff scraping the bargain bin MUCH more than having 20 mil or so.

We’ve found ways to hurt ourselves with the MLE

I’d love to just have them say “unless a stud is interested in us, we’re staying put and will look to progress organically, while also liking to build our asset base”.

I dream too big though

[HarthorneWingo]

The first Melo trade got us 3 years in the playoffs. The only time we went to the playoffs in consecutive years in almost two decades.

This Melo trade got you a sub 30 win season

At least keep the hate in the realm of what happened HW

I don't see any And1s to your post.

Easier to blame Melo for everything wrong with this organization for two decades and caters to the Knicks are teflon way of thinking.

I’m surprised you didn’t get 50

C'mon man, are you really looking back on that trade and thinking "Yep, we need another Melo trade!" Giving up all those assets and draft picks? That trade set us back a whole bunch of years. Three first round exits don't do it for me.

[Capn'O]

It's a scary thought that not having cap space would be positive for us

Isn't it?

We actually get the MLE with the opt in (~8.3 mil) which we don't if he opts out. I trust our staff scraping the bargain bin MUCH more than having 20 mil or so.

We’ve found ways to hurt ourselves with the MLE

I’d love to just have them say “unless a stud is interested in us, we’re staying put and will look to progress organically, while also liking to build our asset base”.

I dream too big though

I've been advocating that we sit on some of our cap to use in trades or future FA acquisitions since about 2010. Tanking and not trading firsts since I've been here. I just don't do it as loud as I used to because... fat lot of good it all did

The recouping of first rounders and punting cap with 1 year deals the team now does is at least a start.

[dakomish23]

I don't see any And1s to your post.

Easier to blame Melo for everything wrong with this organization for two decades and caters to the Knicks are teflon way of thinking.

I’m surprised you didn’t get 50

C'mon man, are you really looking back on that trade and thinking "Yep, we need another Melo trade!" Giving up all those assets and draft picks? That trade set us back a whole bunch of years. Three first round exits don't do it for me.

We didn’t have 3 first round exits.

We didn’t send picks. We sent a pick and a swap. The other pick went for Bargs.

Also, to sign him, we would of had to let WC go

Also, if we don’t trade for him, there is an overwhelming likelihood that we make the DWill deal. You want to talk about setting back this franchise? Imagine the damage of having Amar’e and DWill on max contracts would do. Plus you likely still traded the same pick, except now it’s probably top 5 instead of #12.

You have said that you don’t want to keep losing and want to see them win. The only times we have winning records since 2001 is after the first 3 years of that deal. Shouldn’t that satiate your desire to win? Or is it you want to win but not if Melo’s on the team?

I didn’t want to do another blockbuster. I wanted to play the kids. I wanted to gladly accept whatever outcome happened by playing the kids (likely top 5 pick). I wanted to use any cap space to gain assets if it wasn’t for a legitimate stud. I wanted to trade the vets with value for assets. I wanted to try some lottery tickets to see if we could find a rotation guy or two.

Only one of those things happened - the last one. It turned out to be one of the few bright spots during this year.

[taj2133]

My thing is this if the knicks win the draft and draft ayton i wouldn't mind saying goodbye to kanter then and trading him to the bucks for jabri parker. I also wouldn't mind if we kept him either if the knicks didn't win the draft and didn't have the number 1 pick i would like the knicks to keep him on good contract.

[HarthorneWingo]

Easier to blame Melo for everything wrong with this organization for two decades and caters to the Knicks are teflon way of thinking.

I’m surprised you didn’t get 50

C'mon man, are you really looking back on that trade and thinking "Yep, we need another Melo trade!" Giving up all those assets and draft picks? That trade set us back a whole bunch of years. Three first round exits don't do it for me.

We didn’t have 3 first round exits.

We didn’t send picks. We sent a pick and a swap. The other pick went for Bargs.

Also, to sign him, we would of had to let WC go

Also, if we don’t trade for him, there is an overwhelming likelihood that we make the DWill deal. You want to talk about setting back this franchise? Imagine the damage of having Amar’e and DWill on max contracts would do. Plus you likely still traded the same pick, except now it’s probably top 5 instead of #12.

You have said that you don’t want to keep losing and want to see them win. The only times we have winning records since 2001 is after the first 3 years of that deal. Shouldn’t that satiate your desire to win? Or is it you want to win but not if Melo’s on the team?

I didn’t want to do another blockbuster. I wanted to play the kids. I wanted to gladly accept whatever outcome happened by playing the kids (likely top 5 pick). I wanted to use any cap space to gain assets if it wasn’t for a legitimate stud. I wanted to trade the vets with value for assets. I wanted to try some lottery tickets to see if we could find a rotation guy or two.

Only one of those things happened - the last one. It turned out to be one of the few bright spots during this year.

I can't. I won't. In the words of my deceased friend's deceased Jewish grandmother "Let it be how you say."

[dakomish23]

C'mon man, are you really looking back on that trade and thinking "Yep, we need another Melo trade!" Giving up all those assets and draft picks? That trade set us back a whole bunch of years. Three first round exits don't do it for me.

We didn’t have 3 first round exits.

We didn’t send picks. We sent a pick and a swap. The other pick went for Bargs.

Also, to sign him, we would of had to let WC go

Also, if we don’t trade for him, there is an overwhelming likelihood that we make the DWill deal. You want to talk about setting back this franchise? Imagine the damage of having Amar’e and DWill on max contracts would do. Plus you likely still traded the same pick, except now it’s probably top 5 instead of #12.

You have said that you don’t want to keep losing and want to see them win. The only times we have winning records since 2001 is after the first 3 years of that deal. Shouldn’t that satiate your desire to win? Or is it you want to win but not if Melo’s on the team?

I didn’t want to do another blockbuster. I wanted to play the kids. I wanted to gladly accept whatever outcome happened by playing the kids (likely top 5 pick). I wanted to use any cap space to gain assets if it wasn’t for a legitimate stud. I wanted to trade the vets with value for assets. I wanted to try some lottery tickets to see if we could find a rotation guy or two.

Only one of those things happened - the last one. It turned out to be one of the few bright spots during this year.

I can't. I won't. In the words of my deceased friend's deceased Jewish grandmother "Let it be how you say."

You win