Enes Kanter's (Lack Of) Impact Article

god shammgod · Post #61 » by **god shammgod** » Tue Apr 3, 2018 8:48 pm

they better not use the damn mle and compound this mess. jesus.

Wildcat · Post #62 » by **Wildcat** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 1:55 am

I like Kanter/KP front court. It's the 3, 2, and 1 that worried me. Knicks need a legit 3. I stopped watching after KP, but that Lee/Tim lineup bothered me. I want to give Tim a fair shake, but we won't see anything until the 3 and 1 is taken care of. Don't have a problem with him, but I'm still shocked Lee is on this team.

Garbagelo · Post #63 » by **Garbagelo** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 2:12 am

Straight up cutting Melo would have been better.

Post #64 » by **dakomish23** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 2:25 am

god shammgod wrote:they better not use the damn mle and compound this mess. jesus.

When has this team had cap space and sat on it or used it to gain assets?

nykballa2k4 · Post #65 » by **nykballa2k4** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 2:59 am

FrontOfficeEye wrote:I've been working on this the last few days as a way to bring back some real conversation to the boards (something that it's gone away from recently).

It's looking at Kanter's actual impact - why his defense is bad (videos, synergy), metrics, breaking down of video, and why his impact is nowhere near as large as it might seem going by his box score stats. I don't plan on getting into real back and forths about it with anyone, just thought it would be a nice way to start a conversation. Sure, Kanter puts up points in the paint and rebounds, but the impact isn't there. In terms of helping a team win, an overwhelming amount of metrics point to him being a net negative.

Anyways, here's the link. Hope y'all enjoy.

https://thefrontofficeeye.com/2018/04/02/enes-kanters-actual-impact/

I gave you the click, but off a quick skim your data contains confounds. If you were able to look at the stats for Enes vs Kyle as starters that would make a more profound comparison. IF you look at several of our players, the issue is not that they are bad player, but rather their roles are off.

Post #66 » by **dakomish23** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 5:45 am

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1671290

Post #67 » by **NoLayupRule** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 7:14 am

Kanters impact without KP next to him is a very different thing

Kanters real impact in how he elevates KPs play and protects him from banging inside

ChaosHamster · Post #68 » by **ChaosHamster** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 9:41 am

Amount of people thinking KP and Kanter backcourt somehow looked good.. :nonono:

Yeah, they were decent, but not because of Kanter.

Kanter is still arguably the worst defensive center in the game.

You can't have center who doesn't defend and doesn't shoot. (again, yes, he takes ALMOST one mid-range per game, and his form looks decent. Thats doesn't mean you can shoot in todays game)

If you have a guy who can't defend, at least find someone who can space the floor.

If guy can't shoot, at least he needs to be able to defend and rebound.

xNewYorkMadex · Post #69 » by **xNewYorkMadex** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 10:29 am

I've watched more basketball than ever this season, and the one thing I simply want the Knicks to do is focus on defense.

Get defensive minded players and that alone will help build the culture we've been looking for. People fairly or unfairly criticize KP, but it doesnt matter if hes a #1 or #2 option. The important thing is hes more than capable of being a strong 2 way player. Thats where the money is w/ KP and thats why we drafted him. Same w/ Frank even though he obviously doesnt have the big time scoring ability. The kid will provide strong defense, on the trajectory of being a solid 3pt shooter, and has the potential of being a strong playmaker. Frank could be the PG version of Draymond, just an elite role player is what im essentially trying to say.

We have too many guys or who are incapable of playing good defense. In all seriousness, those guys do usually try. But they suck on that end of the floor. Kanter, Beasley, Burke, Timmy, Mudiay (although he sucks on offense too). We cant build a culture and keep all of those guys. You can only really have a couple of those players on the team, preferably in backup roles. Only truly elite scores who arent good defenders can get away w/ being starters. And none of those players are at an elite level offensively.

Kanter can be used like the Celtics use Greg Monroe. Monroe comes in as a backup and gets his pts and reb effectively in limited minutes. Im sure Kanter can do that on a championship level team since he nearly did it w/ OKC. But at the price he wants, its just not gonna cut it. While Burke reminds me of Isaiah Thomas, but Thomas was able to draw fouls like a mad man which got him at an elite level offensively for that 1 yr. Burke needs to learn how to draw fouls in order to take that next level.

Ive been watching the Spurs and noticed they play LaMarcus Aldridge at C. Besides a couple of random seasons, Aldridge was never that strong of a rebounder. And was never considered a rim protector. And yet the Spurs still decide to play him at C. The Knicks need to do the same w/ KP. KP as a rookie had a total rebound % of 14%, thats exactly where LMA stands right now. KP has dipped in rebounding % in the last 2 yrs playing w/ Noah and Kanter. Fisher did use KP more at C especially in the 2nd half and Robin Lopez went out of his way to simply box his man out and let KP grab some boards when they played together. We need to get KP back at C and make it a full time move. The kid doesnt need to average 10 boards a game, w/ the elite rim protecting he provides he can still average around 8 boards and it will be just fine. KP and LaMarcus have similar games. Both finesse player who love to use the post fadeaway.

Knicks can take a nice step forward if we end up w/ Mikal Bridges in the draft. It will provide us w/ another 2 way player and this time have strong defense at one of the wing positions. We keep focusing on trying to acquire a #1 scorer, but we dont even have the foundation of being a good team. We gotta keep building up these pieces, keep finding diamonds in the rough, and draft well.

thebuzzardman · Post #70 » by **thebuzzardman** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 11:17 am

Kinglee likes Kanter better than KP and that's endorsement enough for me, of Kanter's greatness.

thebuzzardman · Post #71 » by **thebuzzardman** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 11:17 am

xNewYorkMadex wrote:I've watched more basketball than ever this season, and the one thing I simply want the Knicks to do is focus on defense.

Get defensive minded players and that alone will help build the culture we've been looking for. People fairly or unfairly criticize KP, but it doesnt matter if hes a #1 or #2 option. The important thing is hes more than capable of being a strong 2 way player. Thats where the money is w/ KP and thats why we drafted him. Same w/ Frank even though he obviously doesnt have the big time scoring ability. The kid will provide strong defense, on the trajectory of being a solid 3pt shooter, and has the potential of being a strong playmaker. Frank could be the PG version of Draymond, just an elite role player is what im essentially trying to say.

We have too many guys or who are incapable of playing good defense. In all seriousness, those guys do usually try. But they suck on that end of the floor. Kanter, Beasley, Burke, Timmy, Mudiay (although he sucks on offense too). We cant build a culture and keep all of those guys. You can only really have a couple of those players on the team, preferably in backup roles. Only truly elite scores who arent good defenders can get away w/ being starters. And none of those players are at an elite level offensively.

Kanter can be used like the Celtics use Greg Monroe. Monroe comes in as a backup and gets his pts and reb effectively in limited minutes. Im sure Kanter can do that on a championship level team since he nearly did it w/ OKC. But at the price he wants, its just not gonna cut it. While Burke reminds me of Isaiah Thomas, but Thomas was able to draw fouls like a mad man which got him at an elite level offensively for that 1 yr. Burke needs to learn how to draw fouls in order to take that next level.

Ive been watching the Spurs and noticed they play LaMarcus Aldridge at C. Besides a couple of random seasons, Aldridge was never that strong of a rebounder. And was never considered a rim protector. And yet the Spurs still decide to play him at C. The Knicks need to do the same w/ KP. KP as a rookie had a total rebound % of 14%, thats exactly where LMA stands right now. KP has dipped in rebounding % in the last 2 yrs playing w/ Noah and Kanter. Fisher did use KP more at C especially in the 2nd half and Robin Lopez went out of his way to simply box his man out and let KP grab some boards when they played together. We need to get KP back at C and make it a full time move. The kid doesnt need to average 10 boards a game, w/ the elite rim protecting he provides he can still average around 8 boards and it will be just fine. KP and LaMarcus have similar games. Both finesse player who love to use the post fadeaway.

Knicks can take a nice step forward if we end up w/ Mikal Bridges in the draft. It will provide us w/ another 2 way player and this time have strong defense at one of the wing positions. We keep focusing on trying to acquire a #1 scorer, but we dont even have the foundation of being a good team. We gotta keep building up these pieces, keep finding diamonds in the rough, and draft well.

Post #72 » by **dakomish23** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 1:32 pm

xNewYorkMadex wrote:I've watched more basketball than ever this season, and the one thing I simply want the Knicks to do is focus on defense.

Get defensive minded players and that alone will help build the culture we've been looking for. People fairly or unfairly criticize KP, but it doesnt matter if hes a #1 or #2 option. The important thing is hes more than capable of being a strong 2 way player. Thats where the money is w/ KP and thats why we drafted him. Same w/ Frank even though he obviously doesnt have the big time scoring ability. The kid will provide strong defense, on the trajectory of being a solid 3pt shooter, and has the potential of being a strong playmaker. Frank could be the PG version of Draymond, just an elite role player is what im essentially trying to say.

We have too many guys or who are incapable of playing good defense. In all seriousness, those guys do usually try. But they suck on that end of the floor. Kanter, Beasley, Burke, Timmy, Mudiay (although he sucks on offense too). We cant build a culture and keep all of those guys. You can only really have a couple of those players on the team, preferably in backup roles. Only truly elite scores who arent good defenders can get away w/ being starters. And none of those players are at an elite level offensively.

Kanter can be used like the Celtics use Greg Monroe. Monroe comes in as a backup and gets his pts and reb effectively in limited minutes. Im sure Kanter can do that on a championship level team since he nearly did it w/ OKC. But at the price he wants, its just not gonna cut it. While Burke reminds me of Isaiah Thomas, but Thomas was able to draw fouls like a mad man which got him at an elite level offensively for that 1 yr. Burke needs to learn how to draw fouls in order to take that next level.

Ive been watching the Spurs and noticed they play LaMarcus Aldridge at C. Besides a couple of random seasons, Aldridge was never that strong of a rebounder. And was never considered a rim protector. And yet the Spurs still decide to play him at C. The Knicks need to do the same w/ KP. KP as a rookie had a total rebound % of 14%, thats exactly where LMA stands right now. KP has dipped in rebounding % in the last 2 yrs playing w/ Noah and Kanter. Fisher did use KP more at C especially in the 2nd half and Robin Lopez went out of his way to simply box his man out and let KP grab some boards when they played together. We need to get KP back at C and make it a full time move. The kid doesnt need to average 10 boards a game, w/ the elite rim protecting he provides he can still average around 8 boards and it will be just fine. KP and LaMarcus have similar games. Both finesse player who love to use the post fadeaway.

Knicks can take a nice step forward if we end up w/ Mikal Bridges in the draft. It will provide us w/ another 2 way player and this time have strong defense at one of the wing positions. We keep focusing on trying to acquire a #1 scorer, but we dont even have the foundation of being a good team. We gotta keep building up these pieces, keep finding diamonds in the rough, and draft well.

The fact that they felt a THJ Beas Kanter lineup was a good idea after all this crap about culture & defense makes me wonder if they even care about that side of the ball.

nykballa2k4 · Post #73 » by **nykballa2k4** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 11:12 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
xNewYorkMadex wrote:I've watched more basketball than ever this season, and the one thing I simply want the Knicks to do is focus on defense.

Get defensive minded players and that alone will help build the culture we've been looking for. People fairly or unfairly criticize KP, but it doesnt matter if hes a #1 or #2 option. The important thing is hes more than capable of being a strong 2 way player. Thats where the money is w/ KP and thats why we drafted him. Same w/ Frank even though he obviously doesnt have the big time scoring ability. The kid will provide strong defense, on the trajectory of being a solid 3pt shooter, and has the potential of being a strong playmaker. Frank could be the PG version of Draymond, just an elite role player is what im essentially trying to say.

We have too many guys or who are incapable of playing good defense. In all seriousness, those guys do usually try. But they suck on that end of the floor. Kanter, Beasley, Burke, Timmy, Mudiay (although he sucks on offense too). We cant build a culture and keep all of those guys. You can only really have a couple of those players on the team, preferably in backup roles. Only truly elite scores who arent good defenders can get away w/ being starters. And none of those players are at an elite level offensively.

Kanter can be used like the Celtics use Greg Monroe. Monroe comes in as a backup and gets his pts and reb effectively in limited minutes. Im sure Kanter can do that on a championship level team since he nearly did it w/ OKC. But at the price he wants, its just not gonna cut it. While Burke reminds me of Isaiah Thomas, but Thomas was able to draw fouls like a mad man which got him at an elite level offensively for that 1 yr. Burke needs to learn how to draw fouls in order to take that next level.

Ive been watching the Spurs and noticed they play LaMarcus Aldridge at C. Besides a couple of random seasons, Aldridge was never that strong of a rebounder. And was never considered a rim protector. And yet the Spurs still decide to play him at C. The Knicks need to do the same w/ KP. KP as a rookie had a total rebound % of 14%, thats exactly where LMA stands right now. KP has dipped in rebounding % in the last 2 yrs playing w/ Noah and Kanter. Fisher did use KP more at C especially in the 2nd half and Robin Lopez went out of his way to simply box his man out and let KP grab some boards when they played together. We need to get KP back at C and make it a full time move. The kid doesnt need to average 10 boards a game, w/ the elite rim protecting he provides he can still average around 8 boards and it will be just fine. KP and LaMarcus have similar games. Both finesse player who love to use the post fadeaway.

Knicks can take a nice step forward if we end up w/ Mikal Bridges in the draft. It will provide us w/ another 2 way player and this time have strong defense at one of the wing positions. We keep focusing on trying to acquire a #1 scorer, but we dont even have the foundation of being a good team. We gotta keep building up these pieces, keep finding diamonds in the rough, and draft well.

The fact that they felt a THJ Beas Kanter lineup was a good idea after all this crap about culture & defense makes me wonder if they even care about that side of the ball.

With KP out, we don't have an NBA starting line up. Once KP was out, we should have plugged in Kornett and just gone from there. "Sink or swim kid"

NYKnickerbocker · Post #74 » by **NYKnickerbocker** » Wed Apr 4, 2018 11:13 pm

He's a damn demi god in 2k, stay gettin 20-20 games in my my league online against my boys lol

getrichordie · Post #75 » by **getrichordie** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 10:53 am

whocares1 wrote:Kanter can be a player on a winning team. He can have a Tristain Thompson type impact on a winning team. He needs to play with an elite defensive frontcourt partner that can space the floor on offense.

You mean a guy like Serge Ibaka?

Post #76 » by **dakomish23** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 12:22 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
xNewYorkMadex wrote:I've watched more basketball than ever this season, and the one thing I simply want the Knicks to do is focus on defense.

Get defensive minded players and that alone will help build the culture we've been looking for. People fairly or unfairly criticize KP, but it doesnt matter if hes a #1 or #2 option. The important thing is hes more than capable of being a strong 2 way player. Thats where the money is w/ KP and thats why we drafted him. Same w/ Frank even though he obviously doesnt have the big time scoring ability. The kid will provide strong defense, on the trajectory of being a solid 3pt shooter, and has the potential of being a strong playmaker. Frank could be the PG version of Draymond, just an elite role player is what im essentially trying to say.

We have too many guys or who are incapable of playing good defense. In all seriousness, those guys do usually try. But they suck on that end of the floor. Kanter, Beasley, Burke, Timmy, Mudiay (although he sucks on offense too). We cant build a culture and keep all of those guys. You can only really have a couple of those players on the team, preferably in backup roles. Only truly elite scores who arent good defenders can get away w/ being starters. And none of those players are at an elite level offensively.

Kanter can be used like the Celtics use Greg Monroe. Monroe comes in as a backup and gets his pts and reb effectively in limited minutes. Im sure Kanter can do that on a championship level team since he nearly did it w/ OKC. But at the price he wants, its just not gonna cut it. While Burke reminds me of Isaiah Thomas, but Thomas was able to draw fouls like a mad man which got him at an elite level offensively for that 1 yr. Burke needs to learn how to draw fouls in order to take that next level.

Ive been watching the Spurs and noticed they play LaMarcus Aldridge at C. Besides a couple of random seasons, Aldridge was never that strong of a rebounder. And was never considered a rim protector. And yet the Spurs still decide to play him at C. The Knicks need to do the same w/ KP. KP as a rookie had a total rebound % of 14%, thats exactly where LMA stands right now. KP has dipped in rebounding % in the last 2 yrs playing w/ Noah and Kanter. Fisher did use KP more at C especially in the 2nd half and Robin Lopez went out of his way to simply box his man out and let KP grab some boards when they played together. We need to get KP back at C and make it a full time move. The kid doesnt need to average 10 boards a game, w/ the elite rim protecting he provides he can still average around 8 boards and it will be just fine. KP and LaMarcus have similar games. Both finesse player who love to use the post fadeaway.

Knicks can take a nice step forward if we end up w/ Mikal Bridges in the draft. It will provide us w/ another 2 way player and this time have strong defense at one of the wing positions. We keep focusing on trying to acquire a #1 scorer, but we dont even have the foundation of being a good team. We gotta keep building up these pieces, keep finding diamonds in the rough, and draft well.

The fact that they felt a THJ Beas Kanter lineup was a good idea after all this crap about culture & defense makes me wonder if they even care about that side of the ball.

With KP out, we don't have an NBA starting line up. Once KP was out, we should have plugged in Kornett and just gone from there. "Sink or swim kid"

Absolutely. I’d even play Troy at the 4 sometimes.

Billy Goat · Post #77 » by **Billy Goat** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 12:35 pm

Garbagelo wrote:Straight up cutting Melo would have been better.

If Kanter's gone next season then it's effectively what happened anyways.

Dr. Detfink · Post #78 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 12:38 pm

Guys, get off this “Knicks need to focus on defense” garbage. There’s ONE kid who plays defense on this team and 1/3rd of the forum already calls him a draft bust.

This Knick team is a championship contender in fantasy sports but In the real world, it’s just a terrible team.

Billy Goat · Post #79 » by **Billy Goat** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 12:39 pm

Dr. Detfink wrote:Guys, get off this “Knicks need to focus on defense” garbage. There’s ONE kid who plays defense on this team and 1/3rd of the forum already calls him a draft bust.

This Knick team is a championship contender in fantasy sports but In the real world, it’s just a terrible team.

It's not like Mills hasn't built a team full of scorers only before.

Louielou · Post #80 » by **Louielou** » Thu Apr 5, 2018 1:04 pm

Interesting article. I don't think anyone here was looking at Kanter's numbers without acknowledging what he gave back on D but I never thought of him as the tank commander he's made out to be in the article.

Could his aggregate stats be driven down greatly by his post KP presence? I thought this team would be truly terrible and would've thought of them as being in bottom 3 contention if you were to tell me KP would go down halfway through the season.