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2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9?

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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1061 » by Knicksfan1992 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:30 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Do you want KP banging down low with bigs after his ACL? Argument can be used both ways for either position.


I'd rather that than having the continuous stress on his joints to close out and recover. He never looked fluid there. Always looked uncomfortable closing out on shooters.


What you're describing is called running and cutting. If that's a huge concern, it'd be best to trade him. It's definitely less stressful than battling in the post, and the man has said that he's not a center. Not sure that wishing really hard, and arguing back and forth is gonna change that


I mean, naturally, the bolded is the thing you have to work up the most after ACL tears because that's the ligament that allows the knee to balance when you change directons. Being quick in and out of cuts was never KP's forte when he was fully healthy. he was mainly a one move straight line driver, iso jumpshooter, and spot up guy when healthy. I don't see that changing after the ACL recovery. He was always more suited to the 5 defensively even if he himself sees differently. He's way more valuable near the rim than on the perimeter defensively.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1062 » by Knicksfan1992 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:32 pm

whocares1 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Do you want KP banging down low with bigs after his ACL? Argument can be used both ways for either position.


I'd rather that than having the continuous stress on his joints to close out and recover. He never looked fluid there. Always looked uncomfortable closing out on shooters.


I’m going off what KP wants, and until he adds mass, he’s going to keep wanting to play the 4. There’s different ways to attack a perimeter shooter. KP doesn’t have to close out, he can let the player attack the rim, and hopefully we’ll have a 5 that can protect the paint.


I honestly don't care what KP thinks or wants defensively. He's 7 foot 3. He's a center that should be protecting the rim. It's what he's not just good but elite at. He can't play the 4 anymore. That ship has sailed. It'll be better for his long term lower body health anyway. Get a rugged rebounder at the 4 and we'll be fine.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1063 » by whocares1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:59 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
I'd rather that than having the continuous stress on his joints to close out and recover. He never looked fluid there. Always looked uncomfortable closing out on shooters.


I’m going off what KP wants, and until he adds mass, he’s going to keep wanting to play the 4. There’s different ways to attack a perimeter shooter. KP doesn’t have to close out, he can let the player attack the rim, and hopefully we’ll have a 5 that can protect the paint.


I honestly don't care what KP thinks or wants defensively. He's 7 foot 3. He's a center that should be protecting the rim. It's what he's not just good but elite at. He can't play the 4 anymore. That ship has sailed. It'll be better for his long term lower body health anyway. Get a rugged rebounder at the 4 and we'll be fine.


That’s fine if you don’t care, but as long as KP and his team don’t want him to be a permanent 5, he won’t be. Knicks need a 5 that can defend the perimeter, that can space the floor, and is a demon on the boards. If we had a chance at Marvin Bagley, he would’ve been the perfect compliment to KP, but since the team didn’t tank there’s no one that comes to mind that can do that.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1064 » by FrontOfficeEye » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:02 pm

whocares1 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
I’m going off what KP wants, and until he adds mass, he’s going to keep wanting to play the 4. There’s different ways to attack a perimeter shooter. KP doesn’t have to close out, he can let the player attack the rim, and hopefully we’ll have a 5 that can protect the paint.


I honestly don't care what KP thinks or wants defensively. He's 7 foot 3. He's a center that should be protecting the rim. It's what he's not just good but elite at. He can't play the 4 anymore. That ship has sailed. It'll be better for his long term lower body health anyway. Get a rugged rebounder at the 4 and we'll be fine.


That’s fine if you don’t care, but as long as KP and his team don’t want him to be a permanent 5, he won’t be. Knicks need a 5 that can defend the perimeter, that can space the floor, and is a demon on the boards. If we had a chance at Marvin Bagley, he would’ve been the perfect compliment to KP, but since the team didn’t tank there’s no one that comes to mind that can do that.


Robert Williams fits him perfectly, but he's not worth #9.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1065 » by whocares1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:10 pm

FrontOfficeEye wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
I honestly don't care what KP thinks or wants defensively. He's 7 foot 3. He's a center that should be protecting the rim. It's what he's not just good but elite at. He can't play the 4 anymore. That ship has sailed. It'll be better for his long term lower body health anyway. Get a rugged rebounder at the 4 and we'll be fine.


That’s fine if you don’t care, but as long as KP and his team don’t want him to be a permanent 5, he won’t be. Knicks need a 5 that can defend the perimeter, that can space the floor, and is a demon on the boards. If we had a chance at Marvin Bagley, he would’ve been the perfect compliment to KP, but since the team didn’t tank there’s no one that comes to mind that can do that.


Robert Williams fits him perfectly, but he's not worth #9.


I like Robert but he ruins the spacing offensively. He’s only a perfect fit on one side of the court.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1066 » by fatalogic » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:12 pm

KP going to have to spend a lot of time working on setting screens if yall want him at full time center. I don't think he will be a great initially as everyone thinks. I think that will be his position in time but he needs to work on a lot of his skills to be a full time center.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1067 » by Newyorknick94 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:12 pm

Hopefully Wendell carter falls into our lap
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1068 » by FrontOfficeEye » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:33 pm

whocares1 wrote:
FrontOfficeEye wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
That’s fine if you don’t care, but as long as KP and his team don’t want him to be a permanent 5, he won’t be. Knicks need a 5 that can defend the perimeter, that can space the floor, and is a demon on the boards. If we had a chance at Marvin Bagley, he would’ve been the perfect compliment to KP, but since the team didn’t tank there’s no one that comes to mind that can do that.


Robert Williams fits him perfectly, but he's not worth #9.


I like Robert but he ruins the spacing offensively. He’s only a perfect fit on one side of the court.


He's an excellent rim runner. Guys like him don't ruin the spacing of the court just because they can't shoot. Running the PnR with him diving actually helps create space for the perimeter because they need to help on the cut. He's actually a perfect fit on both sides even with the limited offensive game. What would give me pause, however, is the fact that he didn't progress at all on offense from year 1 to 2 - that begs the question, how much does he love the game / is he working on it?
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1069 » by HEZI » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:41 pm

FrontOfficeEye wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
FrontOfficeEye wrote:
Robert Williams fits him perfectly, but he's not worth #9.


I like Robert but he ruins the spacing offensively. He’s only a perfect fit on one side of the court.


He's an excellent rim runner. Guys like him don't ruin the spacing of the court just because they can't shoot. Running the PnR with him diving actually helps create space for the perimeter because they need to help on the cut. He's actually a perfect fit on both sides even with the limited offensive game. What would give me pause, however, is the fact that he didn't progress at all on offense from year 1 to 2 - that begs the question, how much does he love the game / is he working on it?


You know who does love the game?

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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1070 » by Dantares » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:45 pm

Newyorknick94 wrote:Hopefully Wendell carter falls into our lap


Watching horford destroy Giannis in the post makes me optimistic that a 2 big lineup can still work. Especially 2 bigs that are skilled and positive defenders like kp and carter.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1071 » by FrontOfficeEye » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:49 pm

HEZI wrote:
FrontOfficeEye wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
I like Robert but he ruins the spacing offensively. He’s only a perfect fit on one side of the court.


He's an excellent rim runner. Guys like him don't ruin the spacing of the court just because they can't shoot. Running the PnR with him diving actually helps create space for the perimeter because they need to help on the cut. He's actually a perfect fit on both sides even with the limited offensive game. What would give me pause, however, is the fact that he didn't progress at all on offense from year 1 to 2 - that begs the question, how much does he love the game / is he working on it?


You know who does love the game?

Spoiler:
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He's testing the waters too! Hopefully he stays in if a team says they'd pick him late first. Then, the Knicks swoop in and pick him right before he was promised to be picked.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1072 » by whocares1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:15 pm

HEZI wrote:
FrontOfficeEye wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
I like Robert but he ruins the spacing offensively. He’s only a perfect fit on one side of the court.


He's an excellent rim runner. Guys like him don't ruin the spacing of the court just because they can't shoot. Running the PnR with him diving actually helps create space for the perimeter because they need to help on the cut. He's actually a perfect fit on both sides even with the limited offensive game. What would give me pause, however, is the fact that he didn't progress at all on offense from year 1 to 2 - that begs the question, how much does he love the game / is he working on it?


You know who does love the game?

Spoiler:
Image


Who’s that tho.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1073 » by FrontOfficeEye » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:21 pm

whocares1 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
FrontOfficeEye wrote:
He's an excellent rim runner. Guys like him don't ruin the spacing of the court just because they can't shoot. Running the PnR with him diving actually helps create space for the perimeter because they need to help on the cut. He's actually a perfect fit on both sides even with the limited offensive game. What would give me pause, however, is the fact that he didn't progress at all on offense from year 1 to 2 - that begs the question, how much does he love the game / is he working on it?


You know who does love the game?

Spoiler:
Image


Who’s that tho.


Sagaba Konate, aka (one of?) the best defensive bigs in college basketball.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1074 » by camillepd » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:29 pm

Newyorknick94 wrote:Hopefully Wendell carter falls into our lap

Wendell Carter will not get past the Cavs. He fits their needs perfectly.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1075 » by knickstape4ever » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:27 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Do you still want KP chasing 4's around after the ACL?


not really, but at the same time, rebounding would be sh*t with KP at the 5.

Honestly, and I'm in the vast minority on this, but I wanna trade KP. His body type makes him injury prone. Could definitely get a top 3 pick for him


I feel ya. I mean I wouldn't trade KP unless it was like what the rumored Celtics deal was last year where we got the number 1 pick, a future pick and asset. Even then, in this draft I'd be weary of doing that because the only alpha I see is Bagley and I'd prefer pairing him with KP instead of using KP to get him. Which also brings me to my point that Bags is really the only good big man fit with KP outside of maybe JJJ. I personally think JJJ is just too raw and won't be more than a role player at the next level.


I was one of the few on the board last year who wanted Phil to pull the trigger on that deal. Saw a major injury coming from a mile away because guys of his frame historically are injury prone. We were rumored to get Jaylen Brown if I remember correctly? He's got the body type of a player I want on my team; good study athlete.

At least Frank has a good frame, dont have any concern with his injury potential; he just needs to get stronger.

I really like this years draft, especially Ayton who if he puts in the effort defensively could be an elite 2way player-similar to Embiid. If we could get the #1 pick, I'd do it. I like the idea of sending KP to the Suns; they a ton of assets (JJ, top4 pick, #16, etc)
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1076 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:29 am

knickstape4ever wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
not really, but at the same time, rebounding would be sh*t with KP at the 5.

Honestly, and I'm in the vast minority on this, but I wanna trade KP. His body type makes him injury prone. Could definitely get a top 3 pick for him


I feel ya. I mean I wouldn't trade KP unless it was like what the rumored Celtics deal was last year where we got the number 1 pick, a future pick and asset. Even then, in this draft I'd be weary of doing that because the only alpha I see is Bagley and I'd prefer pairing him with KP instead of using KP to get him. Which also brings me to my point that Bags is really the only good big man fit with KP outside of maybe JJJ. I personally think JJJ is just too raw and won't be more than a role player at the next level.


I was one of the few on the board last year who wanted Phil to pull the trigger on that deal. Saw a major injury coming from a mile away because guys of his frame historically are injury prone. We were rumored to get Jaylen Brown if I remember correctly? He's got the body type of a player I want on my team; good study athlete.

At least Frank has a good frame, dont have any concern with his injury potential; he just needs to get stronger.

I really like this years draft, especially Ayton who if he puts in the effort defensively could be an elite 2way player-similar to Embiid. If we could get the #1 pick, I'd do it. I like the idea of sending KP to the Suns; they a ton of assets (JJ, top4 pick, #16, etc)


I don’t hate the idea of Herschel Walker trading KP either. But with his people publicly voicing he won’t extend with any team he’s traded to, he kinda kills any leverage we could’ve had.

I’ll know Scott is SERIOUS about rebuilding this the right way with what he chooses to do with Tim. I don’t hate Tim but his contract goes against everything we say we’re about and Scott has proven he can find minimum salary capable replacements. Lee is actually everything you want in a vet if you’re building a young team and need some vet voices around. He stays out the way on offense and works well off others. And his deal is only two more years as opposed to Tim’s three (no way he opts out). TECHNICALLY Noah’s deal isn’t the most worrisome contract on our books. Tim’s is.

We do need that high usage two guard to pair Frank with. But we don’t need to pay him 16M. He’s not in our 25 and under wheelhouse anymore. I think there are guys in this draft and on the trade market that could be available who’d fit next to Frankie long term.

Obviously Luka would be the pie in the sky but penetration could still be an issue. Mikal and Frank defensively could be elite but neither scare anyone as shot creators right now. I’m not high on Sexton or Trae, not because I don’t they won’t be good pros but I think Frank is my point guard. Lonnie Walker has top five upside, I think he and Frank could be special. What about Rawle Alkins or his teammate, Alonzo Trier in the second round? What about Grayson Allen and Frank? I know, he’d be hard to root for but Ive always felt Grayson was a baller....and a nut. Nuts work well here.

Cut it out.

On the trade market, what could we do to get Malik Monk here with Frank? He had a rough shooting year and we all knew defense would be an issue but watching him play I see some encouraging playmaking ability. I remember Ben Gordon when he got drafted, he was able to get in touch and in a gym with MJ (who had already left Chi). And he gave him some secrets about getting his shot off over length. I’m sure MJ is gonna work with Monk similarly in that area and in all around shot selection. Or he could give just up on him and trade him for two seconds. He was rumored to be in discussions that netted us the two future seconds for Wily.

The other guy I’m intrigued by is Buddy Hield. Buddy can go off. That organization loves him, we know but if they luck into Luka, he likely becomes a bench player. I like Fox’s make up but not his game; talented but not heady as a floor general to me. He’s still a pup, I know but I don’t think he and Buddy are a good fit long term. Bogdanivic (sorry) has also played very well for them and he’s definitely in their future plans. So for all the talk about how much they value Buddy, I can see a scenario where he’s moved. Unlikely maybe but completely possible. He and Frank compliment each other well. And hey, I’m aware the players I’m naming are flawed but they are young and talented and if they’d reached their potential already, they wouldn’t even be worth kicking tires on because there’d be no foreseeable way of acquiring them. As of now, none are untouchable.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1077 » by FrontOfficeEye » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:40 am

Bogdan > Hield.

I do agree on trying to get guys that might be squeezed out of the rotation. I also have my eyes on Justin Jackson on the Kings (and I'm a BIG fan of the one from Maryland) as being a potential trade target.

Can't see Charlotte trading Monk, especially the way he ended the season. Always pegged him as a slight version of Ben Gordon, which is a nice 6th man, but I can't see him being on the market unless they're unloading a lot of salary or getting a pick. I don't recall him being mentioned in any deal with Willy, though.

I think Grayson is going to be a steal. Scoring punch with an attitude off the bench who can create off the bounce for himself and others, get to the line, and plays with a Draymond-like attitude (which I personally love).

I disagree with you saying Noah's contract is not as bad as Tim's.
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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1078 » by Dantares » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:51 am

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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1079 » by Nyk_Fatboy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:59 am

KP to the grizz for #2

Frank and 9 to the clippers for 12/13

Bagley @ 2
SGA @ 12
Knox @ 13

SGA
Hardaway
Knox
Bagley
Kornet

replace hardaway with barret next year so we can have a Canadian backcourt

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Re: 2017/18 Draft and College Thread Part 9 - also pick 9? 

Post#1080 » by HEZI » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:29 am

Nyk_Fatboy wrote:KP to the grizz for #2

Frank and 9 to the clippers for 12/13

Bagley @ 2
SGA @ 12
Knox @ 13

SGA
Hardaway
Knox
Bagley
KP

replace hardaway with barret next year so we can have a Canadian backcourt

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