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Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year

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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#501 » by whocares1 » Mon May 14, 2018 10:07 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Tron Carter wrote:
BKAY wrote:I think its mind blowing that some think there is only one side to the basketball game. If he isnt scoring , he isnt good. Yet, here is a 19 year old who is out of the gate, one of the best defenders at the guard position IN THE LEAGUE. and its not even over-hyping him in typical knicks fan fashion. The numbers and the eye test corroborate this.


i mean it’s not like the knicks have been getting abused by point guards for over a decade or anything.. why should we value defense at the point guard position.

I think a lot of people would be more enthusiastic about his all league potential defense if we weren't so bad on defense

its hard to over state that he and KP are first team level defenders and the team is bottom 10 defense

it makes what he does individually less impactful


Idk about KP being a first team level defender. He’s only an elite rim protector.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#502 » by Jonathan starks » Mon May 14, 2018 10:09 pm

whocares1 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Tron Carter wrote:
i mean it’s not like the knicks have been getting abused by point guards for over a decade or anything.. why should we value defense at the point guard position.

I think a lot of people would be more enthusiastic about his all league potential defense if we weren't so bad on defense

its hard to over state that he and KP are first team level defenders and the team is bottom 10 defense

it makes what he does individually less impactful


Idk about KP being a first team level defender. He’s only an elite rim protector.


Which is why he should play center
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#503 » by NoLayupRule » Mon May 14, 2018 10:20 pm

whocares1 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Tron Carter wrote:
i mean it’s not like the knicks have been getting abused by point guards for over a decade or anything.. why should we value defense at the point guard position.

I think a lot of people would be more enthusiastic about his all league potential defense if we weren't so bad on defense

its hard to over state that he and KP are first team level defenders and the team is bottom 10 defense

it makes what he does individually less impactful


Idk about KP being a first team level defender. He’s only an elite rim protector.

he only lead the NBA in blocks

and can defend out to the 3 point line


im not sure whats expected beyond that. Is he supposed to lead the league in steals too?
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#504 » by vallen » Mon May 14, 2018 10:23 pm

Kinglee wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Kinglee wrote:
Why when a player shows no offensive skill AT ALL, but they are good defenders we have to say "he has high IQ". His playmaking, his random turnovers, his decision making, his shot selection, all of this stuff goes against the high IQ stuff. But if a player isn't flashy and just out there on the court, he gets called "high IQ". It's the same with Lance Thomas. Dude is a bum and does mad dumb ****, but then a coach wanna call him "high IQ". People just really attach things to players just to say something and sound intellligent.

Ben Simmons = high IQ
Lebron = high IQ
Jokic = high IQ
James Harden = high IQ

Only Knick player that honestly display high IQ consistently is Trey Burke if we are being honest. But he has braids, he shoots a lot, and dribble between his legs so he won't get that credit.


Because high IQ works both way. You can be an intelligent defensive player, but you can make terrible decisions offensively and vice versa. I think what you’re saying is misleading. Frank didn’t show “no offensive skill at all” he showed that he has vision. He’s a work in progress at the end of the court but he shouldn’t be compared to Lance who already is a vet. Think the kid is smart and will figure it out. Jaylen Brown looked lost offensively too. Some people take longer than others.


He showed he had vision..Lol ok. If dude was on any other team we would be calling him trash or something. Dude is not Patrick Beverly nor Chris Paul. Lets stop overrating his defense


yep pretty much. 5 pt franky still needs a lot of work and your right nobody else views him as highly as NY fans per usual hyping one of their own. Perry continued looking for, and adding, PG's all season long. I dont expect that to change. hopefully dude becomes a stable role player eventually, but its unlikely he will ever be the future people are hyping him to be.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#505 » by NoLayupRule » Mon May 14, 2018 10:23 pm

Jonathan starks wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:I think a lot of people would be more enthusiastic about his all league potential defense if we weren't so bad on defense

its hard to over state that he and KP are first team level defenders and the team is bottom 10 defense

it makes what he does individually less impactful


Idk about KP being a first team level defender. He’s only an elite rim protector.


Which is why he should play center

he should play wherever he has the most impact and where his body is best protected
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#506 » by Tron Carter » Mon May 14, 2018 10:26 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:
Kinglee wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Because high IQ works both way. You can be an intelligent defensive player, but you can make terrible decisions offensively and vice versa. I think what you’re saying is misleading. Frank didn’t show “no offensive skill at all” he showed that he has vision. He’s a work in progress at the end of the court but he shouldn’t be compared to Lance who already is a vet. Think the kid is smart and will figure it out. Jaylen Brown looked lost offensively too. Some people take longer than others.


He showed he had vision..Lol ok. If dude was on any other team we would be calling him trash or something. Dude is not Patrick Beverly nor Chris Paul. Lets stop overrating his defense



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take yourself off repeat. Do you feel that if you keep repeating yourself a million times on the same thing it changes the perspective on other. Its still not working and you still carrying on. Find a New argument....


You stay crying on something. Its either a coach or a player...but you stay in your feelings about it. You prob still mad at a chick who dissed you in H.S.


he’s just a baiting clown at this point. his posts are worth less then nothing he never fails to highlight his pseudo basketball intelligence.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#507 » by Jonathan starks » Mon May 14, 2018 10:45 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Jonathan starks wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Idk about KP being a first team level defender. He’s only an elite rim protector.


Which is why he should play center

he should play wherever he has the most impact and where his body is best protected


He has the most impact as a 5, but he’s not a good rebounder. However when he plays the 4 he’s not good at guarding in space either
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#508 » by BKAY » Mon May 14, 2018 10:47 pm

Kinglee wrote:
NYKAL wrote:people underrate him because he doesn't have any big scoring games and isn't flashy at all but, there is a lot to be said for the fact that dude played hard, showed potential, improved as the year went on, and made very few is any mistakes as a Rook. His understanding of the game and IQ was impressive. I'm happy with him and Trey. Muiday still has to show....SOMETHING


Why when a player shows no offensive skill AT ALL, but they are good defenders we have to say "he has high IQ". His playmaking, his random turnovers, his decision making, his shot selection, all of this stuff goes against the high IQ stuff. But if a player isn't flashy and just out there on the court, he gets called "high IQ". It's the same with Lance Thomas. Dude is a bum and does mad dumb ****, but then a coach wanna call him "high IQ". People just really attach things to players just to say something and sound intellligent.

Ben Simmons = high IQ
Lebron = high IQ
Jokic = high IQ
James Harden = high IQ

Only Knick player that honestly display high IQ consistently is Trey Burke if we are being honest. But he has braids, he shoots a lot, and dribble between his legs so he won't get that credit.


Because you're just exaggerating when you say he has NO offensive skills whatsoever. And of course , one with that opinion would say Trey Burke has high IQ (which he does to a degree) yet it took him how many years to figure out the NBA? But, in the first year of a 19 year olds career , the book is written on him. He doesn't make dumb plays. He just doesn't play with confidence yet. Which any reasonable person would expect out of a rookie, let alone a 19 year old rookie who played overseas and has played more in one year of the NBA than he has in his entirety of his euro career.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#509 » by vallen » Mon May 14, 2018 10:54 pm

KP doesnt have the body to bang with 5's consistently. he got beat to poop banging with 4's. he just needs to stop being lazy and chase his dude outside. hes fine where he is.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#510 » by Are We Ther Yet » Mon May 14, 2018 10:55 pm

Watching this Pacers/Knicks game from early this year. Frank was such a beast in this game. KP dropping 40. Comeback from 19 or so down?

I'm not worried about this kid. He showed more than enough this year on both sides of the ball. He also showed plenty of PG skills as well. He needs to improve on quite a few things but, most of it is easy to fix. Get bigger/stronger and the rest will come to this kid.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#511 » by NoLayupRule » Mon May 14, 2018 11:16 pm

Jonathan starks wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Jonathan starks wrote:
Which is why he should play center

he should play wherever he has the most impact and where his body is best protected


He has the most impact as a 5, but he’s not a good rebounder. However when he plays the 4 he’s not good at guarding in space either

Oh now KP isnt a good rebounder or defender

interesting
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#512 » by Are We Ther Yet » Mon May 14, 2018 11:34 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Jonathan starks wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:he should play wherever he has the most impact and where his body is best protected


He has the most impact as a 5, but he’s not a good rebounder. However when he plays the 4 he’s not good at guarding in space either

Oh now KP isnt a good rebounder or defender

interesting


:crazy: He is a small ball 5 dream IMO. He and Kanter play great together too. So...he is going to impact wherever he plays.

The defense...he should be closer to the rim. That's on the coach. He can defend 1 on 1. He can help defend. He can protect the rim. It's hard doing all 3 at once when there perimeter D leaks like a sieve. Frank needs to play with KP and all of that changes.

This is a Frank thread though so....GTFO! :lol:
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#513 » by K-DOT » Mon May 14, 2018 11:35 pm

Jonathan starks wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Jonathan starks wrote:
Which is why he should play center

he should play wherever he has the most impact and where his body is best protected


He has the most impact as a 5, but he’s not a good rebounder. However when he plays the 4 he’s not good at guarding in space either

I feel like this point is a little overblown

In isolation, he only allows .85 ppp on 40.5 EFG%, which is around the 60th percentile in the league

http://stats.nba.com/players/isolation/?OD=defensive&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=PlayerFirstName*E*kris

What makes people think he's a bad perimiter defender is the fact that he allows 1.12 ppp on 58.2 EFG% on spot ups which is good for the 23rd percentile

http://stats.nba.com/players/spot-up/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&OD=defensive&CF=PlayerFirstName*E*kris

This is due to a variety of factors though, mostly being that he drops too far into the paint when he's off-ball on a PnR, which leaves his man wide open, so he gives up a lot of easy looks. That's entirely coachable, though, which is why in his rookie year it was .83 ppp, 41.5 EFG%, 82nd percentile

http://stats.nba.com/players/spot-up/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&OD=defensive&CF=PlayerFirstName*E*kris

Which is why I still give Fisher credit, he did have us playing really solid defense. Jeff's defensive schemes sucked, and I'm pretty sure Fiz will have us playing better

Now, all of this is before he tore his ACL, so I 100% agree on he should look to bulk up and move to the 5, he has enormous potential there
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#514 » by K-DOT » Mon May 14, 2018 11:39 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Jonathan starks wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:he should play wherever he has the most impact and where his body is best protected


He has the most impact as a 5, but he’s not a good rebounder. However when he plays the 4 he’s not good at guarding in space either

Oh now KP isnt a good rebounder or defender

interesting

KP is not a good rebounder

And it's not just a position thing, this year he only averaged .4 more rebounds per48 when moved to center, last year only 1.4 more (11.6 per48 which is his highest of the three years and still really bad), and his rookie year it actually went down 1.5 per48 when he played center

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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#515 » by Nazrmohamed » Tue May 15, 2018 1:40 am

NoLayupRule wrote:
Jonathan starks wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:he should play wherever he has the most impact and where his body is best protected


He has the most impact as a 5, but he’s not a good rebounder. However when he plays the 4 he’s not good at guarding in space either

Oh now KP isnt a good rebounder or defender

interesting


When did KP ever rebound. I thought his lack of rebounding was common knowledge. That's what makes the KP to C talk sound silly. Otherwise it's a great idea, but then how many stretch 4s you know grab double digit rebounds? They exist but it's rare.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#516 » by Mecca » Tue May 15, 2018 1:47 am

NoLayupRule wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:I think a lot of people would be more enthusiastic about his all league potential defense if we weren't so bad on defense

its hard to over state that he and KP are first team level defenders and the team is bottom 10 defense

it makes what he does individually less impactful


Idk about KP being a first team level defender. He’s only an elite rim protector.

he only lead the NBA in blocks

and can defend out to the 3 point line


im not sure whats expected beyond that. Is he supposed to lead the league in steals too?



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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#517 » by Kurt Rambis » Tue May 15, 2018 3:49 am

whocares1 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Tron Carter wrote:
i mean it’s not like the knicks have been getting abused by point guards for over a decade or anything.. why should we value defense at the point guard position.

I think a lot of people would be more enthusiastic about his all league potential defense if we weren't so bad on defense

its hard to over state that he and KP are first team level defenders and the team is bottom 10 defense

it makes what he does individually less impactful


Idk about KP being a first team level defender. He’s only an elite rim protector.


That's enough to win DPOY one day.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#518 » by SmoothLefty21 » Tue May 15, 2018 2:39 pm

KP has to move to the 5 to maximize his potential (and the team's) for a variety of reasons. If he doesn't and we go through the same crap of Melo "I don't want to play the 4 anymore even though we just had the best Knicks season in 14 years" garbage it'll be heartbreaking.

It's the friggin NBA in 2018. There isn't a crazy amount of banging inside anymore. Most teams favor transition defense over offensive rebounding. There is no reason for him to not play the 5.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#519 » by vallen » Tue May 15, 2018 3:45 pm

SmoothLefty21 wrote:KP has to move to the 5 to maximize his potential (and the team's) for a variety of reasons. If he doesn't and we go through the same crap of Melo "I don't want to play the 4 anymore even though we just had the best Knicks season in 14 years" garbage it'll be heartbreaking.

It's the friggin NBA in 2018. There isn't a crazy amount of banging inside anymore. Most teams favor transition defense over offensive rebounding. There is no reason for him to not play the 5.



he got beat to crap as a 4 how is he supposed to bang with 5's ? if he adds an incredible amount of muscle I wont argue, but I dont think he has the frame to produce the strength needed. and hes not that kind of player anyway. hes not going to back people down in the post hes a shooter. KP is a 4. He doesnt even play like a 5. hes tall but his frame is weak.

dude was "tired" more than a month before the all-star game. and then he was eventually broken.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#520 » by SmoothLefty21 » Tue May 15, 2018 4:02 pm

vallen wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:KP has to move to the 5 to maximize his potential (and the team's) for a variety of reasons. If he doesn't and we go through the same crap of Melo "I don't want to play the 4 anymore even though we just had the best Knicks season in 14 years" garbage it'll be heartbreaking.

It's the friggin NBA in 2018. There isn't a crazy amount of banging inside anymore. Most teams favor transition defense over offensive rebounding. There is no reason for him to not play the 5.



he got beat to crap as a 4 how is he supposed to bang with 5's ? if he adds an incredible amount of muscle I wont argue, but I dont think he has the frame to produce the strength needed. and hes not that kind of player anyway. hes not going to back people down in the post hes a shooter. KP is a 4. He doesnt even play like a 5. hes tall but his frame is weak.

dude was "tired" more than a month before the all-star game. and then he was eventually broken.


How did he get beat to crap by 4s? I don't agree with that. "Doesn't play like a 5" is ridiculous, every year we move closer to positionless basketball and he's the ideal stretch 5 of the next generation. The ironic part is that we tried to iso him and have him backdown from the elbow/mid-post a ton last year.

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