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Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year

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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#521 » by vallen » Tue May 15, 2018 4:18 pm

SmoothLefty21 wrote:
vallen wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:KP has to move to the 5 to maximize his potential (and the team's) for a variety of reasons. If he doesn't and we go through the same crap of Melo "I don't want to play the 4 anymore even though we just had the best Knicks season in 14 years" garbage it'll be heartbreaking.

It's the friggin NBA in 2018. There isn't a crazy amount of banging inside anymore. Most teams favor transition defense over offensive rebounding. There is no reason for him to not play the 5.



he got beat to crap as a 4 how is he supposed to bang with 5's ? if he adds an incredible amount of muscle I wont argue, but I dont think he has the frame to produce the strength needed. and hes not that kind of player anyway. hes not going to back people down in the post hes a shooter. KP is a 4. He doesnt even play like a 5. hes tall but his frame is weak.

dude was "tired" more than a month before the all-star game. and then he was eventually broken.


How did he get beat to crap by 4s? I don't agree with that. "Doesn't play like a 5" is ridiculous, every year we move closer to positionless basketball and he's the ideal stretch 5 of the next generation. The ironic part is that we tried to iso him and have him backdown from the elbow/mid-post a ton last year.



he sucks backing down and looks uncomfortable doin it. its awkward and forced T.O's. KP's game is shooting over smaller 4's. When he got off to that hot start it was doin what he was comfortable doing. Shooting. And not even mid-season he told the press he was "tired" and it showed throughout the rest of the season. the double teams and physicality wore him out quickly. I think he would be fine at the 5 offensively because the next gen are shooters, but i think its too heavy a toll on his body that he cant handle. he also needs some roster help so he doesnt get doubled so much.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#522 » by NoLayupRule » Tue May 15, 2018 5:43 pm

K-DOT wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Jonathan starks wrote:
He has the most impact as a 5, but he’s not a good rebounder. However when he plays the 4 he’s not good at guarding in space either

Oh now KP isnt a good rebounder or defender

interesting

KP is not a good rebounder

And it's not just a position thing, this year he only averaged .4 more rebounds per48 when moved to center, last year only 1.4 more (11.6 per48 which is his highest of the three years and still really bad), and his rookie year it actually went down 1.5 per48 when he played center

source
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK17.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1617/16NYK12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1516/15NYK12.HTM

KP is not the kind of rebounder who takes boards from his own team

hes a good rebounder but he's not an aggressive rebounder for stats

hes gonna have trouble at the 5 against great rebounders though
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#523 » by NoLayupRule » Tue May 15, 2018 5:44 pm

Mecca wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Idk about KP being a first team level defender. He’s only an elite rim protector.

he only lead the NBA in blocks

and can defend out to the 3 point line


im not sure whats expected beyond that. Is he supposed to lead the league in steals too?



2nd sentence is extremely questionable

no it isn't
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#524 » by NYKAL » Tue May 15, 2018 5:49 pm

vallen wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:
vallen wrote:

he got beat to crap as a 4 how is he supposed to bang with 5's ? if he adds an incredible amount of muscle I wont argue, but I dont think he has the frame to produce the strength needed. and hes not that kind of player anyway. hes not going to back people down in the post hes a shooter. KP is a 4. He doesnt even play like a 5. hes tall but his frame is weak.

dude was "tired" more than a month before the all-star game. and then he was eventually broken.


How did he get beat to crap by 4s? I don't agree with that. "Doesn't play like a 5" is ridiculous, every year we move closer to positionless basketball and he's the ideal stretch 5 of the next generation. The ironic part is that we tried to iso him and have him backdown from the elbow/mid-post a ton last year.



he sucks backing down and looks uncomfortable doin it. its awkward and forced T.O's. KP's game is shooting over smaller 4's. When he got off to that hot start it was doin what he was comfortable doing. Shooting. And not even mid-season he told the press he was "tired" and it showed throughout the rest of the season. the double teams and physicality wore him out quickly. I think he would be fine at the 5 offensively because the next gen are shooters, but i think its too heavy a toll on his body that he cant handle. he also needs some roster help so he doesnt get doubled so much.



yup, 2 strait seasons he was complaining by December......DECEMBER! and we want him to bang with bigger bodies......that a recipe for disaster.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#525 » by GONYK » Tue May 15, 2018 5:58 pm

Just watching this again is a fantastic reminder of how well Frank and KP worked together

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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#526 » by Are We Ther Yet » Tue May 15, 2018 6:44 pm

GONYK wrote:Just watching this again is a fantastic reminder of how well Frank and KP worked together



Yeah man. I mentioned this game in the Frank thread yesterday. MSG played a bunch of games yesterday. I watched this one. Frank/KP were amazing together.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#527 » by knickstape4ever » Tue May 15, 2018 7:05 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:Oh now KP isnt a good rebounder or defender

interesting

KP is not a good rebounder

And it's not just a position thing, this year he only averaged .4 more rebounds per48 when moved to center, last year only 1.4 more (11.6 per48 which is his highest of the three years and still really bad), and his rookie year it actually went down 1.5 per48 when he played center

source
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK17.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1617/16NYK12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1516/15NYK12.HTM

KP is not the kind of rebounder who takes boards from his own team

hes a good rebounder but he's not an aggressive rebounder for stats

hes gonna have trouble at the 5 against great rebounders though


That's my issue with KP too. If we play him at the 5, rebounding will probably be an issue. And playing him at the 4 puts him at greater risk of re-injury. That's why, if given a good deal I'd consider trading KP. I'm all in on Ayton being a stud from Day 1. Watch out, he's gone be 1 of the leagues best
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#528 » by NoLayupRule » Tue May 15, 2018 8:10 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
K-DOT wrote:KP is not a good rebounder

And it's not just a position thing, this year he only averaged .4 more rebounds per48 when moved to center, last year only 1.4 more (11.6 per48 which is his highest of the three years and still really bad), and his rookie year it actually went down 1.5 per48 when he played center

source
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK17.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1617/16NYK12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1516/15NYK12.HTM

KP is not the kind of rebounder who takes boards from his own team

hes a good rebounder but he's not an aggressive rebounder for stats

hes gonna have trouble at the 5 against great rebounders though


That's my issue with KP too. If we play him at the 5, rebounding will probably be an issue. And playing him at the 4 puts him at greater risk of re-injury. That's why, if given a good deal I'd consider trading KP. I'm all in on Ayton being a stud from Day 1. Watch out, he's gone be 1 of the leagues best
at the 4 Kp has a massive advantage over smaller guys. He’s at less of a risk for injury because he doesn’t have to bang.
It’s like kd. Size at that position makes him unguardable
It’s also why guys like Duncan, dirk, bosh, etc all spent most of their careers at the 4 until later
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#529 » by knickstape4ever » Tue May 15, 2018 8:13 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:KP is not the kind of rebounder who takes boards from his own team

hes a good rebounder but he's not an aggressive rebounder for stats

hes gonna have trouble at the 5 against great rebounders though


That's my issue with KP too. If we play him at the 5, rebounding will probably be an issue. And playing him at the 4 puts him at greater risk of re-injury. That's why, if given a good deal I'd consider trading KP. I'm all in on Ayton being a stud from Day 1. Watch out, he's gone be 1 of the leagues best
at the 4 Kp has a massive advantage over smaller guys. He’s at less of a risk for injury because he doesn’t have to bang.
It’s like kd. Size at that position makes him unguardable
It’s also why guys like Duncan, dirk, bosh, etc all spent most of their careers at the 4 until later


he's more of an injury risk because the ACL is an injury typically caused by movements such as lateral change in direction, which are more frequent playing the 4 because he would have to extend to the perimeter
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#530 » by drekwins » Tue May 15, 2018 8:17 pm

vallen wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:
vallen wrote:

he got beat to crap as a 4 how is he supposed to bang with 5's ? if he adds an incredible amount of muscle I wont argue, but I dont think he has the frame to produce the strength needed. and hes not that kind of player anyway. hes not going to back people down in the post hes a shooter. KP is a 4. He doesnt even play like a 5. hes tall but his frame is weak.

dude was "tired" more than a month before the all-star game. and then he was eventually broken.


How did he get beat to crap by 4s? I don't agree with that. "Doesn't play like a 5" is ridiculous, every year we move closer to positionless basketball and he's the ideal stretch 5 of the next generation. The ironic part is that we tried to iso him and have him backdown from the elbow/mid-post a ton last year.



he sucks backing down and looks uncomfortable doin it. its awkward and forced T.O's. KP's game is shooting over smaller 4's. When he got off to that hot start it was doin what he was comfortable doing. Shooting. And not even mid-season he told the press he was "tired" and it showed throughout the rest of the season. the double teams and physicality wore him out quickly. I think he would be fine at the 5 offensively because the next gen are shooters, but i think its too heavy a toll on his body that he cant handle. he also needs some roster help so he doesnt get doubled so much.


It's not about offense. A center can play like a pointguard. It doesn't matter. What matters is that he can't hold position on defense, get's lazy and is not physical enough on the glass. Those are the only reasons why he can't play center... offense has nothing to do with it.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#531 » by drekwins » Tue May 15, 2018 8:19 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:KP is not the kind of rebounder who takes boards from his own team

hes a good rebounder but he's not an aggressive rebounder for stats

hes gonna have trouble at the 5 against great rebounders though


That's my issue with KP too. If we play him at the 5, rebounding will probably be an issue. And playing him at the 4 puts him at greater risk of re-injury. That's why, if given a good deal I'd consider trading KP. I'm all in on Ayton being a stud from Day 1. Watch out, he's gone be 1 of the leagues best
at the 4 Kp has a massive advantage over smaller guys. He’s at less of a risk for injury because he doesn’t have to bang.
It’s like kd. Size at that position makes him unguardable
It’s also why guys like Duncan, dirk, bosh, etc all spent most of their careers at the 4 until later


Does he? He doesn't score well from 2's. Most 5's don't defend out to the 3 point line... He'd have just as big of an advantage and may actually be able to beat some off the dribble (he can't beat 4's). On defense, he's at a huge disadvantage at both positons. He can't defend the 3 and he can't bang. He's a good help/weakside defender and can guard the post well. However, that's the extrent of it. He can improve a lot on defense. It all comes down to him getting stronger.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#532 » by NoLayupRule » Tue May 15, 2018 8:32 pm

drekwins wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
That's my issue with KP too. If we play him at the 5, rebounding will probably be an issue. And playing him at the 4 puts him at greater risk of re-injury. That's why, if given a good deal I'd consider trading KP. I'm all in on Ayton being a stud from Day 1. Watch out, he's gone be 1 of the leagues best
at the 4 Kp has a massive advantage over smaller guys. He’s at less of a risk for injury because he doesn’t have to bang.
It’s like kd. Size at that position makes him unguardable
It’s also why guys like Duncan, dirk, bosh, etc all spent most of their careers at the 4 until later


Does he? He doesn't score well from 2's. Most 5's don't defend out to the 3 point line... He'd have just as big of an advantage and may actually be able to beat some off the dribble (he can't beat 4's). On defense, he's at a huge disadvantage at both positons. He can't defend the 3 and he can't bang. He's a good help/weakside defender and can guard the post well. However, that's the extrent of it. He can improve a lot on defense. It all comes down to him getting stronger.

this year, especially early on, he was dominant from 2. he would turn and shoot over defenders. he killed people.
the 3 is a lower % shot for him
he's simply dominant from midrange, like KD

but yes he needs more strength
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#533 » by fatalogic » Tue May 15, 2018 8:44 pm

When/Why did this become the KP thread?
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#534 » by vallen » Tue May 15, 2018 9:52 pm

drekwins wrote:
vallen wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:
How did he get beat to crap by 4s? I don't agree with that. "Doesn't play like a 5" is ridiculous, every year we move closer to positionless basketball and he's the ideal stretch 5 of the next generation. The ironic part is that we tried to iso him and have him backdown from the elbow/mid-post a ton last year.



he sucks backing down and looks uncomfortable doin it. its awkward and forced T.O's. KP's game is shooting over smaller 4's. When he got off to that hot start it was doin what he was comfortable doing. Shooting. And not even mid-season he told the press he was "tired" and it showed throughout the rest of the season. the double teams and physicality wore him out quickly. I think he would be fine at the 5 offensively because the next gen are shooters, but i think its too heavy a toll on his body that he cant handle. he also needs some roster help so he doesnt get doubled so much.


It's not about offense. A center can play like a pointguard. It doesn't matter. What matters is that he can't hold position on defense, get's lazy and is not physical enough on the glass. Those are the only reasons why he can't play center... offense has nothing to do with it.


ya i made that clear when i said " he would be fine at the 5 offensively" and have repeatedly said he cant bang with the bigger bodies but thanks. hes not good on the glass and hes not physically built to be a physical player. especially against 5's.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#535 » by drekwins » Tue May 15, 2018 11:43 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
drekwins wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:at the 4 Kp has a massive advantage over smaller guys. He’s at less of a risk for injury because he doesn’t have to bang.
It’s like kd. Size at that position makes him unguardable
It’s also why guys like Duncan, dirk, bosh, etc all spent most of their careers at the 4 until later


Does he? He doesn't score well from 2's. Most 5's don't defend out to the 3 point line... He'd have just as big of an advantage and may actually be able to beat some off the dribble (he can't beat 4's). On defense, he's at a huge disadvantage at both positons. He can't defend the 3 and he can't bang. He's a good help/weakside defender and can guard the post well. However, that's the extrent of it. He can improve a lot on defense. It all comes down to him getting stronger.

this year, especially early on, he was dominant from 2. he would turn and shoot over defenders. he killed people.
the 3 is a lower % shot for him
he's simply dominant from midrange, like KD

but yes he needs more strength


Wait, what? He shot 39.5% from 3. The biggest issue is that he shoots 58.5% of his shots from between 3-23ft. Not to mention, he shoots 42.9% of his shots from 10-23 ft at 42.7%... That's not good shot selection. It's just low PPS and not great value. He'd be better off shooting all 3's. Overall, as a 2pt shooter, he shoots 45%. Stars shoot much better than that. Anthony Davis - 55.8 2PT%, Durant - 56.5%, Harden - 53.1%. Even lesser stars shoot better than that, Aldridge - 52.6%, Jokic - 53.8%, Myles Turner - 51.9%, Tobias Harris - 50.1%, Millsap - 50.6%...

The point is, KP's 2pt range is not a strength. He takes a lot of long 2's and that's because he doesn't have the strength to battle down low. In addition, he can't really drive 1 on 1 to get easier shots. His 3 is the strength. The 2pt shot and shot selection needs a lot of work.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#536 » by drekwins » Tue May 15, 2018 11:46 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
drekwins wrote:
Does he? He doesn't score well from 2's. Most 5's don't defend out to the 3 point line... He'd have just as big of an advantage and may actually be able to beat some off the dribble (he can't beat 4's). On defense, he's at a huge disadvantage at both positons. He can't defend the 3 and he can't bang. He's a good help/weakside defender and can guard the post well. However, that's the extrent of it. He can improve a lot on defense. It all comes down to him getting stronger.

this year, especially early on, he was dominant from 2. he would turn and shoot over defenders. he killed people.
the 3 is a lower % shot for him
he's simply dominant from midrange, like KD

but yes he needs more strength


Also, Durant shoots from 10-23ft at 49% (48.96% to be exact). KP shoots the same shots at 42.61%. That's a big difference. Not to mention, KP shoots a higher percentage of his shots from this range than KD. All in all, KP needs to de-emphasize this out of his game if he ever wants to be efficient by today's standards.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#537 » by Jose7 » Wed May 16, 2018 12:03 am

drekwins wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
drekwins wrote:
Does he? He doesn't score well from 2's. Most 5's don't defend out to the 3 point line... He'd have just as big of an advantage and may actually be able to beat some off the dribble (he can't beat 4's). On defense, he's at a huge disadvantage at both positons. He can't defend the 3 and he can't bang. He's a good help/weakside defender and can guard the post well. However, that's the extrent of it. He can improve a lot on defense. It all comes down to him getting stronger.

this year, especially early on, he was dominant from 2. he would turn and shoot over defenders. he killed people.
the 3 is a lower % shot for him
he's simply dominant from midrange, like KD

but yes he needs more strength


Also, Durant shoots from 10-23ft at 49% (48.96% to be exact). KP shoots the same shots at 42.61%. That's a big difference. Not to mention, KP shoots a higher percentage of his shots from this range than KD. All in all, KP needs to de-emphasize this out of his game if he ever wants to be efficient by today's standards.


KP doesn't have nearly the space that durant gets, neither does he get respect from refs yet..KP's elbows get touched on many shot attempts that go uncalled for him, for other stars they are called
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#538 » by drekwins » Wed May 16, 2018 12:15 am

Jose7 wrote:
drekwins wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:this year, especially early on, he was dominant from 2. he would turn and shoot over defenders. he killed people.
the 3 is a lower % shot for him
he's simply dominant from midrange, like KD

but yes he needs more strength


Also, Durant shoots from 10-23ft at 49% (48.96% to be exact). KP shoots the same shots at 42.61%. That's a big difference. Not to mention, KP shoots a higher percentage of his shots from this range than KD. All in all, KP needs to de-emphasize this out of his game if he ever wants to be efficient by today's standards.


KP doesn't have nearly the space that durant gets, neither does he get respect from refs yet..KP's elbows get touched on many shot attempts that go uncalled for him, for other stars they are called


You can't make the midrange your primary shot. It's okay if it's there and it's the best shot in the offense but you need a higher PPS.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#539 » by taj2133 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:45 am

I am glad that frank is coming back to nyc next week and i also glad he is going to play in vegas summer league i got to give him credit.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina - Rookie Year 

Post#540 » by Are We Ther Yet » Wed May 16, 2018 3:56 am

Via SB Nation:


After a rookie season was met with mixed reviews, Ntilikina will make his return to the U.S. on May 21 and finally meet Fizdale. Ntilikina will play July’s summer league in Las Vegas and remain in New York the rest of the offseason, according to a source.
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