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Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild

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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#221 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:06 pm

Other teams had some interest in Lee and even KOQ in the offseason. Knicks just didnt seem to be interested in moving them.

The Knicks are searching for a veteran point guard to play in front of Frank Ntilikina and, outside of Anthony, the Knicks have also received interest in trade talks on Courtney Lee and Kyle O’Quinn, per sources.


Courtney Lee would seem to be the odd man out if Hardaway comes in because they play the same position. But a league source said the Knicks aren’t looking to move Lee and that they plan to play him and Hardaway together. That could change, but the source said the Knicks want to have a mix of young players and veterans.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#222 » by dakomish23 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:08 pm

K P 6 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
K P 6 wrote:
Prime STAT
Young Gallo
Young Fields
Prime Felton
Young Mozgov
Revived Purp

the team had a play style and Amare put us on the map. This is facts.


You want facts?

Fact

Amare games missed
11-12 - 19 games
12-13 - 53 games
13-14 - 17 games
14-15 - 17 games (out of 53). He aged so well that we bough him out.

Fact

Gallo games missed
11-12 - 23 games
12-13 - 11 games
13-14 - 82 games
14-15 - 23 games

Fact

WC games missed
11-12 - 58 games
12-13 - 39 games
13-14 - 22 games
14-15 - 4 games

We were “on our way” with that trio?

Unlikely

Here’s another fact

Knicks have 3 winning seasons out of the last 17

Wonder when that happened

2010-2011 is one of those winning seasons yet youre posting stuff after they all got traded besides Amare lol cmon bro. I said the last time the knicks had something going was that year and thats facts. system and coach was in place and we were rooting for that team hard. many people forget because we gutted the team for Melo and nothing was the same.


Yeah.

It actually got bettter :lol:

The best thing we gave up in that deal was the pick and pick swap. The players are role players who went missing every other game. And we got one of them back.

We were headed to lottery seasons in 11-12 & 12-13 if we stayed put.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#223 » by RShahNyC89 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:09 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
But now it’s his fault alone that the kids didn’t play and management had nothing to do with it.


That's quite an extrapolation.


Am I really taking a big leap here?

This organization always remains blameless or somehow not as bad as the reality.

I think Jeff knew he was on the hot seat and did what the FO told him to do - compete and try to win every game.

Jeff alone shouldn’t bear the weight of the minutes distribution.



Agreed, that's why if the plan was to let him go at the end of the year, they might as well have fired him earlier. Either that or committed for another year with the instruction that he will be judged on player development rather than W/Ls
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#224 » by god shammgod » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:11 pm

ok. let's forget the past year for now. there was nothing they could do...right ? is that what i'm supposed to believe ? well, next year there is something. kp is hurt. ownership says "i'm good with a slow rebuild". so now all excuses are gone. let's see what happens.
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Re: Steve Mills: James Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild. per espn ian begley 

Post#225 » by Iron Mantis » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:13 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Iron Mantis wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:we've embraced the tank the last two years and ended up picking 9th

no matter what we do we can't be as bad as teams like BK, Phx, etc

The tank has never been embraced.

This is the first full Melo-less season and yet still there were hella vets on this team getting major minutes all year.



Lee / Jack / Beas - all more MPG than Frank

Culchah


That makes me want to vomit.

I'm so glad Jeff is gone.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#226 » by FemaleDogPlease » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:14 pm

I want the Knicks to spend some cap space if we can get a good young guy to sign here like Randle.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#227 » by HEZI » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:14 pm

Handledatruth wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:if they wanted to tell jeff not to play the veterans, that they brought here, they could have done that at any time. they did that exact thing after the trade deadline and jack was benched. that wasn't jeff's decision. they told him to that. he admitted it was a directive from the front office. they played both sides of the fence, the way the knicks usually do, and said "well, maybe we can make the playoffs. let's see what happens". well, what happened ? when you don't commit to a plan....this is what happens. stuck with the 9th pick and no playoffs. good call.


Again what would you have done in the beginning of the year to really stink it up while Porzingis puts up mvp level production? There's nothing the fo could have done. People love adjusting the Jack narrative when it sees fit. Every single game thread was how Jack secretly is hurting us and how he couldn't play defense.... So what is it? Jarret Jack is actually a useful player who cost us a high pick? Or he sucked and our D was bad because of him? It can't be both. If you want to blame one thing outside of KP it would have to be Hardaway signing which is fair game if you're end game was to tank at all costs.


I swear people forget that KP busted the tank. Not Jarrett Jack and not Tim Hardaway Jr. As long as KP is playing meaningful minutes for the Knicks we will not be the Suns. Rather than people being happy about this, they whine. What we need to do is stop looking for the next home run swing and start looking for guys that fit the team first/defensive identity we are trying to develop. By doing that, we might end up with the next Mitchell or Leonard in the near future. Stop following Philly and start looking at the Spurs and the Jazz.

-Gordon Hayward 9th overall pick
-Donovan Mitchell 13th overall pick
-Rudy Gobert 27th Overall pick
-Kawhi Leonard 15th Overall pick
(I wont even continue going down the Spurs list, we know what they do with draft picks)

Find your identity. Draft appropriately. Improve. I really don't understand what is wrong with this.


Isn't that what Philly is also doing? They found Dario Saric with the 12th pick, they found Robert Covington undrafted, they found Richaun Holmes in the 2nd round and on top of that they also have the 10th, 26th, 38th,39th,56th and 60th draft picks this year.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#228 » by shtolky » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:15 pm

god shammgod wrote:ok. let's forget the past year for now. there was nothing they could do...right ? is that what i'm supposed to believe ? well, next year there is something. kp is hurt. ownership says "i'm good with a slow rebuild". so now all excuses are gone. let's see what happens.



They don't even need excuses. Without KP until probably January we are going to be one of the worst teams in the league. For better or worse, depending on your point of view, KP will be back and if he's back back, he will win us some games. If it takes him time to get back to normal, we will still suck for most of the year.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#229 » by vallen » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:16 pm

IDK why they dont target 2020. Finding a taker for THJ would leave us with a resigned KP, Frank, 2 more rookies, and a boat load of cash. Setting that kind of plan in motion now sets up a lot of players to consider forming a team here with an organization that finally has a plan. The Garden is what separates us from the other teams that have been floating in the lottery for decades. some of those teams found franchisers and still remained floaters. there no guarantees building through the draft. we all know there are only a handful of top level superstars in the whole league. there is no guarantee we would get one in one or two drafts while other teams have been trying for decades. but having flexibility to create a super team here is as good as anywhere else provided we have the funding. and thats what players want these days. lets give them a platform to do it on the biggest stage. #2020.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#230 » by fatalogic » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 pm

HEZI wrote:
Handledatruth wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Again what would you have done in the beginning of the year to really stink it up while Porzingis puts up mvp level production? There's nothing the fo could have done. People love adjusting the Jack narrative when it sees fit. Every single game thread was how Jack secretly is hurting us and how he couldn't play defense.... So what is it? Jarret Jack is actually a useful player who cost us a high pick? Or he sucked and our D was bad because of him? It can't be both. If you want to blame one thing outside of KP it would have to be Hardaway signing which is fair game if you're end game was to tank at all costs.


I swear people forget that KP busted the tank. Not Jarrett Jack and not Tim Hardaway Jr. As long as KP is playing meaningful minutes for the Knicks we will not be the Suns. Rather than people being happy about this, they whine. What we need to do is stop looking for the next home run swing and start looking for guys that fit the team first/defensive identity we are trying to develop. By doing that, we might end up with the next Mitchell or Leonard in the near future. Stop following Philly and start looking at the Spurs and the Jazz.

-Gordon Hayward 9th overall pick
-Donovan Mitchell 13th overall pick
-Rudy Gobert 27th Overall pick
-Kawhi Leonard 15th Overall pick
(I wont even continue going down the Spurs list, we know what they do with draft picks)

Find your identity. Draft appropriately. Improve. I really don't understand what is wrong with this.


Isn't that what Philly is also doing? They found Dario Saric with the 12th pick, they found Robert Covington undrafted, they found Richaun Holmes in the 2nd round and on top of that they also have the 10th, 26th, 38th,39th,56th and 60th draft picks this year.

Philly is just on another level when it comes to team building. Sure it took some luck but while everyone else was playing checkers they were out here playing nba 2k. They probably reloaded the save a few times and the rest of the world didn't even know.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#231 » by Greenie » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:21 pm

Show patience but signed Timmy?
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#232 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:24 pm

Another test will be what they do with Noah. If they stretch him that would go against the patient approach.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#233 » by HEZI » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:24 pm

fatalogic wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Handledatruth wrote:
I swear people forget that KP busted the tank. Not Jarrett Jack and not Tim Hardaway Jr. As long as KP is playing meaningful minutes for the Knicks we will not be the Suns. Rather than people being happy about this, they whine. What we need to do is stop looking for the next home run swing and start looking for guys that fit the team first/defensive identity we are trying to develop. By doing that, we might end up with the next Mitchell or Leonard in the near future. Stop following Philly and start looking at the Spurs and the Jazz.

-Gordon Hayward 9th overall pick
-Donovan Mitchell 13th overall pick
-Rudy Gobert 27th Overall pick
-Kawhi Leonard 15th Overall pick
(I wont even continue going down the Spurs list, we know what they do with draft picks)

Find your identity. Draft appropriately. Improve. I really don't understand what is wrong with this.


Isn't that what Philly is also doing? They found Dario Saric with the 12th pick, they found Robert Covington undrafted, they found Richaun Holmes in the 2nd round and on top of that they also have the 10th, 26th, 38th,39th,56th and 60th draft picks this year.

Philly is just on another level when it comes to team building. Sure it took some luck but while everyone else was playing checkers they were out here playing nba 2k. They probably reloaded the save a few times and the rest of the world didn't even know.


What's funny is that they traded Tatum and a future 1st on draft night and STILL look stacked. Most teams who make that type of trade would suffer a setback.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#234 » by whocares1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:28 pm

Greenie wrote:Show patience but signed Timmy?
FOH.


The “voice of reason” posters are always pro management. They believe in Perry...but they also believed in Phil...and they also believed in Walsh and they also belie...
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#235 » by Capn'O » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:29 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
That's quite an extrapolation.


Am I really taking a big leap here?

This organization always remains blameless or somehow not as bad as the reality.

I think Jeff knew he was on the hot seat and did what the FO told him to do - compete and try to win every game.

Jeff alone shouldn’t bear the weight of the minutes distribution.


I don't think it's a huge leap to say that a coach can autonomously decide to keep a young player in who is playing well over a vet minimum player. If Jeff felt he had no say over playing Jarrett **** Jack at this stage in his career - especially when management had explicitly stated an effort to go young - then we should hire him back just so we can fire him again. What a wimp. He would never be his own man here. Always some excuse why he couldn't coach how he wanted.

This doesn't really absolve management either. Mills made an abominable signing last summer and they didn't deal with their logjam well. They need to deal with that this summer, which btw was my lede in this thread. They have a chance to go in a development direction with both the coaching and personnel and need to take it to be evaluated well.

RShahNyC89 wrote:Agreed, that's why if the plan was to let him go at the end of the year, they might as well have fired him earlier. Either that or committed for another year with the instruction that he will be judged on player development rather than W/Ls


I always figured Jeff had the year to implement his own methods without Phil's oversight but that he was toast by midseason. But why fire then when you don't have a replacement? Just play it out and do a search in earnest now when the full candidate pool is in front of you.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#236 » by fatalogic » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:36 pm

HEZI wrote:
fatalogic wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Isn't that what Philly is also doing? They found Dario Saric with the 12th pick, they found Robert Covington undrafted, they found Richaun Holmes in the 2nd round and on top of that they also have the 10th, 26th, 38th,39th,56th and 60th draft picks this year.

Philly is just on another level when it comes to team building. Sure it took some luck but while everyone else was playing checkers they were out here playing nba 2k. They probably reloaded the save a few times and the rest of the world didn't even know.


What's funny is that they traded Tatum and a future 1st on draft night and STILL look stacked. Most teams who make that type of trade would suffer a setback.

Agree but I still have faith in Fultz. The kid has had such a strange year but besides his shooting he has the profile of a really good player for them. If he can get his college shooting back he is a perfect fit.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#237 » by HEZI » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:45 pm

fatalogic wrote:
HEZI wrote:
fatalogic wrote:Philly is just on another level when it comes to team building. Sure it took some luck but while everyone else was playing checkers they were out here playing nba 2k. They probably reloaded the save a few times and the rest of the world didn't even know.


What's funny is that they traded Tatum and a future 1st on draft night and STILL look stacked. Most teams who make that type of trade would suffer a setback.

Agree but I still have faith in Fultz. The kid has had such a strange year but besides his shooting he has the profile of a really good player for them. If he can get his college shooting back he is a perfect fit.


I'm liking him off the bench. He could develop into a really nice 6th man for them. He's gotta be able to shoot the ball or at least look to attempt to shoot otherwise it might not be the best fit to have him in the starting lineup.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#238 » by Kinglee » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:50 pm

People still claim we gutted the team for Melo?mOut of all those players we traded for Melo, only Melo still remain relevant 7 years later...And those players were younger than him. Keep blaiming Melo instead of this failure of an organization though. Who fault was it the 10 years before Melo? The coaches? Oh yea, it was Dolan. Never actually the fault of the people that New Yorkers praise every time we hire someone new. It's all Dolan and Melo for the past 20 years.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#239 » by Gravy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:00 pm

Doesn't the new lottery rules start next season? So gutting the team and bottoming out won't work as much anymore. We could have the worst record and still have a decent probability of ending up with the 8th pick.
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Re: Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild 

Post#240 » by fatalogic » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:04 pm

Gravy wrote:Doesn't the new lottery rules start next season? So gutting the team and bottoming out won't work as much anymore. We could have the worst record and still have a decent probability of ending up with the 8th pick.

Even with the new rules you'd still want to be at least top 5 as a team. The odds are even for the top 3 slots and the 5th pick only has a 3.5% less chance at the 1# pick.

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