Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild

[thebuzzardman]

I really don't see how a roster that Perry himself admitted was garbage because the season could be viewed as "win now" one.

There wasn't a single move made this season with the premise of "win now". Timmy was signed because the entire exec staff believed Phil whiffed in the draft by rafting Frank. And Perry traded Melo, so where exactly was the winning gonna come from?

How is THJr being signed have to do with "the entire exec staff" believed Phil whiffed on Frank?

Please enlighten us with the inside information you have that this is true. How about that they knew he was a development pick and their SG depth was Courtney Lee, at 32 years old, and, well, Ron Baker. So they took an opportunity to sign a secondary scorer, who was 25 years old, planning for "life after Courtney", while supplying a a young vet SG with some scoring/creating skills to play in the backcourt to KP in the front court. I mean, everything they said about the signing (which I liked, sort of, then but hate now) was about adding a young player to fill a position of need at a price they liked now and into the future.

[fatalogic]

I really don't see how a roster that Perry himself admitted was garbage because the season could be viewed as "win now" one.

There wasn't a single move made this season with the premise of "win now". Timmy was signed because the entire exec staff believed Phil whiffed in the draft by rafting Frank. And Perry traded Melo, so where exactly was the winning gonna come from?

The “winning now” was allowing their coach to play veterans for long minutes instead of playing the youth and rolling with them during clutch situations.

Y'all need to stop. Mills and Perry gave Jeff a Hyundai Accent to race in the Indy 500.

Nothing about this team even remotely indicated win now. Were you expecting them to actually win now?

That Mudiay trade and then supposedly mandating Jeff to start him was such an underrated tank move. KP's hot start was just too much to overcome.

[whocares1]

I really don't see how a roster that Perry himself admitted was garbage because the season could be viewed as "win now" one.

There wasn't a single move made this season with the premise of "win now". Timmy was signed because the entire exec staff believed Phil whiffed in the draft by rafting Frank. And Perry traded Melo, so where exactly was the winning gonna come from?

The “winning now” was allowing their coach to play veterans for long minutes instead of playing the youth and rolling with them during clutch situations.

Y'all need to stop. Mills and Perry gave Jeff a Hyundai Accent to race in the Indy 500.

Nothing about this team even remotely indicated win now. Were you expecting them to actually win now?

Dude we’re picking 9th..

[Thugger HBC]

I really don't see how a roster that Perry himself admitted was garbage because the season could be viewed as "win now" one.

There wasn't a single move made this season with the premise of "win now". Timmy was signed because the entire exec staff believed Phil whiffed in the draft by rafting Frank. And Perry traded Melo, so where exactly was the winning gonna come from?

How is THJr being signed have to do with "the entire exec staff" believed Phil whiffed on Frank?

Please enlighten us with the inside information you have that this is true. How about that they knew he was a development pick and their SG depth was Courtney Lee, at 32 years old, and, well, Ron Baker. So they took an opportunity to sign a secondary scorer, who was 25 years old, planning for "life after Courtney", while supplying a a young vet SG with some scoring/creating skills to play in the backcourt to KP in the front court. I mean, everything they said about the signing (which I liked, sort of, then but hate now) was about adding a young player to fill a position of need at a price they liked now and into the future.

No they didn't, they planned on both playing together, which they said, and actually did. Timmy played SF the whole year.

[Thugger HBC]

The “winning now” was allowing their coach to play veterans for long minutes instead of playing the youth and rolling with them during clutch situations.

Y'all need to stop. Mills and Perry gave Jeff a Hyundai Accent to race in the Indy 500.

Nothing about this team even remotely indicated win now. Were you expecting them to actually win now?

Dude we’re picking 9th..

Win now teams win 29 games? the irony of this win now thinking is nearly everyone expected the team to win less than 30 games.

How on earth is that win now?

[dakomish23]

This year we have a 1.7% chance to get #1... next year the 9th pick gets 4.5%

Let’s hope the Knicks don’t know this

[thebuzzardman]

I really don't see how a roster that Perry himself admitted was garbage because the season could be viewed as "win now" one.

There wasn't a single move made this season with the premise of "win now". Timmy was signed because the entire exec staff believed Phil whiffed in the draft by rafting Frank. And Perry traded Melo, so where exactly was the winning gonna come from?

How is THJr being signed have to do with "the entire exec staff" believed Phil whiffed on Frank?

Please enlighten us with the inside information you have that this is true. How about that they knew he was a development pick and their SG depth was Courtney Lee, at 32 years old, and, well, Ron Baker. So they took an opportunity to sign a secondary scorer, who was 25 years old, planning for "life after Courtney", while supplying a a young vet SG with some scoring/creating skills to play in the backcourt to KP in the front court. I mean, everything they said about the signing (which I liked, sort of, then but hate now) was about adding a young player to fill a position of need at a price they liked now and into the future.

No they didn't, they planned on both playing together, which they said, and actually did. Timmy played SF the whole year.

Right, because Courtney had two years on his contract. It was still getting a player they liked, when they could, for beyond CLee not being on the team. Also, about getting another player who could create etc.

But how does that relate to definitively knowing that they considered Frank to be a bust, as opposed to recognizing he was a pick that was several years away. "Whiffing" implies a sh*tty pick that wouldn't be good then, or ever. So, what's the inside info on how much they hated the pick?

Btw, I still agree with your premise that it wasn't a win now team. I just see it was they signed (outside THJr) guys like Jack and Beasley etc to plug obvious holes in the roster while continuing to build. More than anything, it's just that Jeff either insisted on overplaying the vets and/or there was some disconnect between the coach and FO. Possibly. Then again, they always said they'd try to win some games as they developed, so maybe it's not as off as we as fans felt.

[Thugger HBC]

How is THJr being signed have to do with "the entire exec staff" believed Phil whiffed on Frank?

Please enlighten us with the inside information you have that this is true. How about that they knew he was a development pick and their SG depth was Courtney Lee, at 32 years old, and, well, Ron Baker. So they took an opportunity to sign a secondary scorer, who was 25 years old, planning for "life after Courtney", while supplying a a young vet SG with some scoring/creating skills to play in the backcourt to KP in the front court. I mean, everything they said about the signing (which I liked, sort of, then but hate now) was about adding a young player to fill a position of need at a price they liked now and into the future.

No they didn't, they planned on both playing together, which they said, and actually did. Timmy played SF the whole year.

Right, because Courtney had two years on his contract. It was still getting a player they liked, when they could, for beyond CLee not being on the team. Also, about getting another player who could create etc.

But how does that relate to definitively knowing that they considered Frank to be a bust, as opposed to recognizing he was a pick that was several years away. "Whiffing" implies a sh*tty pick that wouldn't be good then, or ever. So, what's the inside info on how much they hated the pick?

Buzz you can easily tell that this current exec team doesn't really care for Frank. It's obvious.

They provide two pg's in front of him in sessions and Jack for "mentorship", traded for another whom immediately got the starting job without a single practice, and brought up another from the G, whom ended up getting the starting job as well. they even talked about Ron Baker being the backup point relegating Frank to third string. You can choose to be blind tho.

That's FIVE players they placed prior to Frank. Perry even said plain as day in the presser they will draft BPA regardless of position and figure it out later, and yeah, I do think they'll draft a pg.

[Handledatruth]

Again what would you have done in the beginning of the year to really stink it up while Porzingis puts up mvp level production? There's nothing the fo could have done. People love adjusting the Jack narrative when it sees fit. Every single game thread was how Jack secretly is hurting us and how he couldn't play defense.... So what is it? Jarret Jack is actually a useful player who cost us a high pick? Or he sucked and our D was bad because of him? It can't be both. If you want to blame one thing outside of KP it would have to be Hardaway signing which is fair game if you're end game was to tank at all costs.

I swear people forget that KP busted the tank. Not Jarrett Jack and not Tim Hardaway Jr. As long as KP is playing meaningful minutes for the Knicks we will not be the Suns. Rather than people being happy about this, they whine. What we need to do is stop looking for the next home run swing and start looking for guys that fit the team first/defensive identity we are trying to develop. By doing that, we might end up with the next Mitchell or Leonard in the near future. Stop following Philly and start looking at the Spurs and the Jazz.

-Gordon Hayward 9th overall pick
-Donovan Mitchell 13th overall pick
-Rudy Gobert 27th Overall pick
-Kawhi Leonard 15th Overall pick
(I wont even continue going down the Spurs list, we know what they do with draft picks)

Find your identity. Draft appropriately. Improve. I really don't understand what is wrong with this.

Isn't that what Philly is also doing? They found Dario Saric with the 12th pick, they found Robert Covington undrafted, they found Richaun Holmes in the 2nd round and on top of that they also have the 10th, 26th, 38th,39th,56th and 60th draft picks this year.

You are proving my point. My argument is against blatant tanking for the top pick. You can build a team with solid drafting regardless of what pick you get. It's all about drafting and signing guys that fit your team identity.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I really don't see how a roster that Perry himself admitted was garbage because the season could be viewed as "win now" one.

There wasn't a single move made this season with the premise of "win now". Timmy was signed because the entire exec staff believed Phil whiffed in the draft by rafting Frank. And Perry traded Melo, so where exactly was the winning gonna come from?

How is THJr being signed have to do with "the entire exec staff" believed Phil whiffed on Frank?

Please enlighten us with the inside information you have that this is true. How about that they knew he was a development pick and their SG depth was Courtney Lee, at 32 years old, and, well, Ron Baker. So they took an opportunity to sign a secondary scorer, who was 25 years old, planning for "life after Courtney", while supplying a a young vet SG with some scoring/creating skills to play in the backcourt to KP in the front court. I mean, everything they said about the signing (which I liked, sort of, then but hate now) was about adding a young player to fill a position of need at a price they liked now and into the future.

They made zero win now moves. Timmy was a long term gamble. TBD if it was a huge mistake IMO.

Sessions...mentor role. Jack...long shot mentor role. He panned out so Trasshions was cut. Dotson....draft pick signed to good deal. Williams. Try out signed to a good deal mid season. Burke...reclamation project on an excellent deal mid season. Trading garbage for a cheap look at Mud. Solid idea. TBD. He's 21.

Beasley? Is he the win now move? The Melo trade?
Keeping Lee/KOQ?

Allowing the HC room to do his thing is what EVERYONE wanted Phil to do. Now it's a bad thing? Once they had enough they stepped in. He obviously wasn't on board with a youth movement. So they fired him. It's not rocket science.

PERRY HAD TO WORK AROUND 2 BAD GMs PRIOR TO HIM. This roster is not anything more than in transition. Not win now. Not Tank mode. Just moving in a new direction. Hope it doesn't change direction again in a year or 2.

[KnicksGadfly]

Y'all need to stop. Mills and Perry gave Jeff a Hyundai Accent to race in the Indy 500.

Nothing about this team even remotely indicated win now. Were you expecting them to actually win now?

Dude we’re picking 9th..

Win now teams win 29 games? the irony of this win now thinking is nearly everyone expected the team to win less than 30 games.

How on earth is that win now?

Win now teams can end up in the lottery, as long as the roster is sufficiently bad enough. Phil showed us that this could be true when he brought in Rose and Noah.

[Thugger HBC]

I can think of win now moves teams make. OKC adding PG and Melo, and in the process giving up some future pieces...for now, because both could opt out. That fits a win now move, in other words the expectations are being raised for the present.

Knicks did not do this at all. if y'all think signing Timmy, starting the season with ramon Sessions catapulted the Knicks into a win now stage, please just don't quote me.

[HEZI]

I swear people forget that KP busted the tank. Not Jarrett Jack and not Tim Hardaway Jr. As long as KP is playing meaningful minutes for the Knicks we will not be the Suns. Rather than people being happy about this, they whine. What we need to do is stop looking for the next home run swing and start looking for guys that fit the team first/defensive identity we are trying to develop. By doing that, we might end up with the next Mitchell or Leonard in the near future. Stop following Philly and start looking at the Spurs and the Jazz.

-Gordon Hayward 9th overall pick
-Donovan Mitchell 13th overall pick
-Rudy Gobert 27th Overall pick
-Kawhi Leonard 15th Overall pick
(I wont even continue going down the Spurs list, we know what they do with draft picks)

Find your identity. Draft appropriately. Improve. I really don't understand what is wrong with this.

Isn't that what Philly is also doing? They found Dario Saric with the 12th pick, they found Robert Covington undrafted, they found Richaun Holmes in the 2nd round and on top of that they also have the 10th, 26th, 38th,39th,56th and 60th draft picks this year.

You are proving my point. My argument is against blatant tanking for the top pick. You can build a team with solid drafting regardless of what pick you get. It's all about drafting and signing guys that fit your team identity.

No I hear you, but I'm saying you can do both by accumulating multiple picks. The smart teams are doing just that, we need to catch up

[whocares1]

I can think of win now moves teams make. OKC adding PG and Melo, and in the process giving up some future pieces...for now, because both could opt out. That fits a win now move, in other words the expectations are being raised for the present.

Knicks did not do this at all. if y'all think signing Timmy, starting the season with ramon Sessions catapulted the Knicks into a win now stage, please just don't quote me.

Your “win now” is way too black and white. Essentially the team chose to play more experienced players over their rookies because of what? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to play Ntilikina 30 minutes and Jack 18? Dotson a spot in the rotation? Willy actually playing? KP not playing 40 minutes?

[thebuzzardman]

No they didn't, they planned on both playing together, which they said, and actually did. Timmy played SF the whole year.

Right, because Courtney had two years on his contract. It was still getting a player they liked, when they could, for beyond CLee not being on the team. Also, about getting another player who could create etc.

But how does that relate to definitively knowing that they considered Frank to be a bust, as opposed to recognizing he was a pick that was several years away. "Whiffing" implies a sh*tty pick that wouldn't be good then, or ever. So, what's the inside info on how much they hated the pick?

Buzz you can easily tell that this current exec team doesn't really care for Frank. It's obvious.

They provide two pg's in front of him in sessions and Jack for "mentorship", traded for another whom immediately got the starting job without a single practice, and brought up another from the G, whom ended up getting the starting job as well. they even talked about Ron Baker being the backup point relegating Frank to third string. You can choose to be blind tho.

That's FIVE players they placed prior to Frank. Perry even said plain as day in the presser they will draft BPA regardless of position and figure it out later, and yeah, I do think they'll draft a pg.

Possibly. I'm not totally sure of that yet. I mean, Sessions and Jack count as one. That's called bringing in a vet to play instead of a 19 year old. So I can't count that as being "for or against". Jack replaces what Sessions didn't bring, which is quality vet play. Burke I can see as PG depth and again, future planning. But by the time they traded for Mudiay, yeah, you have to wonder.

[Thugger HBC]

I can think of win now moves teams make. OKC adding PG and Melo, and in the process giving up some future pieces...for now, because both could opt out. That fits a win now move, in other words the expectations are being raised for the present.

Knicks did not do this at all. if y'all think signing Timmy, starting the season with ramon Sessions catapulted the Knicks into a win now stage, please just don't quote me.

Your “win now” is way too black and white. Essentially the team chose to play more experienced players over their rookies because of what? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to play Ntilikina 30 minutes and Jack 18? Dotson a spot in the rotation? Willy actually playing? KP not playing 40 minutes?

I think some of you want to apply win now for everything that fits y'all mold when there's zero evidence of such.

You cant have it both ways. if the Knicks supposedly thought frank was a developmental player, why would he play 30 minutes right out the gate when he doesn't even have NBA conditioning?

I haven't see a team play a project right off the bat with major minutes. Feel free to give examples of such.

Dotson I thought would play some more, but he certainly got some time in the G, and his owns words he said it helped him.

Not even commenting on Willy, everyone knows how I feel there, and as for KP, you're supposed to play your best player, right?

[Thugger HBC]

Right, because Courtney had two years on his contract. It was still getting a player they liked, when they could, for beyond CLee not being on the team. Also, about getting another player who could create etc.

But how does that relate to definitively knowing that they considered Frank to be a bust, as opposed to recognizing he was a pick that was several years away. "Whiffing" implies a sh*tty pick that wouldn't be good then, or ever. So, what's the inside info on how much they hated the pick?

Buzz you can easily tell that this current exec team doesn't really care for Frank. It's obvious.

They provide two pg's in front of him in sessions and Jack for "mentorship", traded for another whom immediately got the starting job without a single practice, and brought up another from the G, whom ended up getting the starting job as well. they even talked about Ron Baker being the backup point relegating Frank to third string. You can choose to be blind tho.

That's FIVE players they placed prior to Frank. Perry even said plain as day in the presser they will draft BPA regardless of position and figure it out later, and yeah, I do think they'll draft a pg.

Possibly. I'm not totally sure of that yet. I mean, Sessions and Jack count as one. That's called bringing in a vet to play instead of a 19 year old. So I can't count that as being "for or against". Jack replaces what Sessions didn't bring, which is quality vet play. Burke I can see as PG depth and again, future planning. But by the time they traded for Mudiay, yeah, you have to wonder.

I don't have to "wonder". I saw it from the start. I saw both of them cats look at Frank hobbling out of practice like "this ****". The only current person in the organization held Frank high got demoted.

Frank has to earn his, something none of the other pg's had to do. I hope he does btw, but I don't think this regime will wait for it.

Sessions bum ass didn't, I truly believe he was the one they said didn't even know the plays, neither did Mudiay or Burke. Baker got the nod simply because he plays hard, he aint even a pg.

Buzz you're playing a blind mans game when the evidence is there.

[thebuzzardman]

I can think of win now moves teams make. OKC adding PG and Melo, and in the process giving up some future pieces...for now, because both could opt out. That fits a win now move, in other words the expectations are being raised for the present.

Knicks did not do this at all. if y'all think signing Timmy, starting the season with ramon Sessions catapulted the Knicks into a win now stage, please just don't quote me.

Your “win now” is way too black and white. Essentially the team chose to play more experienced players over their rookies because of what? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to play Ntilikina 30 minutes and Jack 18? Dotson a spot in the rotation? Willy actually playing? KP not playing 40 minutes?

I think some of you want to apply win now for everything that fits y'all mold when there's zero evidence of such.

You cant have it both ways. if the Knicks supposedly thought frank was a developmental player, why would he play 30 minutes right out the gate when he doesn't even have NBA conditioning?

I haven't see a team play a project right off the bat with major minutes. Feel free to give examples of such.

Dotson I thought would play some more, but he certainly got some time in the G, and his owns words he said it helped him.

Not even commenting on Willy, everyone knows how I feel there, and as for KP, you're supposed to play your best player, right?

It's getting hard to track the different arguments here. I just wasn't convinced the FO thinks the Knicks "whiffed". Other than that, I think the Knicks stayed true to what they said at the beginning of the year. It was a rebuilding year, they didn't make any win now moves, and they always said they'd try to win some games while "developing" because developing was as much about getting younger and rebuilding the team as it was also about establishing culture and a certain way to play.

I mean, "development" everyone sort of tries to make about Frank, the latest rookie, or Dotson, when I think it had a lot to do with KP and THEN those guys. I mean, KP got featured a lot early, in the post. That was developmental.

There is all the year long fuss about Jeff, what he did or didn't do as far as "the youth" but more than anything, he coached what he had, tried to play young guys, within reason. But I divorce Jeff this season from "the rebuild". I think Mills/Perry gave him a "Phil-free" year to see if was worth it (while they suspected he wasn't) but that Mills and to some degree Perry, definitely considered the optics to Dolan of firing and paying a 3rd guy to do nothing. I mean, unfortunately, those decisions happen.

And now, they assessed Jeff and are moving on to the next phase, which is getting a coach who is in sync with what they want to do. I mean, on paper, it sounds good, and they are saying the right things. Now it's just a matter if the moves mostly bear that out.

[thebuzzardman]

Buzz you can easily tell that this current exec team doesn't really care for Frank. It's obvious.

They provide two pg's in front of him in sessions and Jack for "mentorship", traded for another whom immediately got the starting job without a single practice, and brought up another from the G, whom ended up getting the starting job as well. they even talked about Ron Baker being the backup point relegating Frank to third string. You can choose to be blind tho.

That's FIVE players they placed prior to Frank. Perry even said plain as day in the presser they will draft BPA regardless of position and figure it out later, and yeah, I do think they'll draft a pg.

Possibly. I'm not totally sure of that yet. I mean, Sessions and Jack count as one. That's called bringing in a vet to play instead of a 19 year old. So I can't count that as being "for or against". Jack replaces what Sessions didn't bring, which is quality vet play. Burke I can see as PG depth and again, future planning. But by the time they traded for Mudiay, yeah, you have to wonder.

I don't have to "wonder". I saw it from the start. I saw both of them cats look at Frank hobbling out of practice like "this ****". The only current person in the organization held Frank high got demoted.

Frank has to earn his, something none of the other pg's had to do. I hope he does btw, but I don't think this regime will wait for it.

Sessions bum ass didn't, I truly believe he was the one they said didn't even know the plays, neither did Mudiay or Burke. Baker got the nod simply because he plays hard, he aint even a pg.

Buzz you're playing a blind mans game when the evidence is there.

I'm not discounting this view, just not as sold as you are on it yet. I've had that concern about Mills, and still do, because I saw a lot of the THJr as almost like this spite move against Phil, where he signed him the moment he could do "undo" what he saw as Phil's dumb sh*t. And I'm not sure it was a good move. So, I could see Mills not giving Frank a chance, even though you'd figure a less ego driven guy might say "well, he's 19, it's going to take 3 years", where Mills might be more "he wasn't my guy", I'm not waiting.

[KnicksGadfly]

I can think of win now moves teams make. OKC adding PG and Melo, and in the process giving up some future pieces...for now, because both could opt out. That fits a win now move, in other words the expectations are being raised for the present.

Knicks did not do this at all. if y'all think signing Timmy, starting the season with ramon Sessions catapulted the Knicks into a win now stage, please just don't quote me.

Your “win now” is way too black and white. Essentially the team chose to play more experienced players over their rookies because of what? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to play Ntilikina 30 minutes and Jack 18? Dotson a spot in the rotation? Willy actually playing? KP not playing 40 minutes?

I would say that the Knicks tried to have it both ways. They wanted to be "competitive" while rebuilding, and that type of plan does net you the 9th pick. It was probably because the Knicks have too much pride to become a league laughingstock like the Sixers did, without realizing that that was our reputation already.

There were some moves that felt very win now this season. KOQ, Kanter, Hardaway, Sessions, Jack, Lee, Beasley...those are win-now players, even if they're not good, and those are a significant amount of vets swallowing up a lot of minutes. A lot of them are not going to be here next season. Some of them I really don't want back next season, but we're stuck with them. Anyway, that's that.

We got a lot of money tied into bench players on this squad...Hardaway, Noah, Kanter. I know we gotta surround KP with talent, but man, this is not good talent.