Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild

[Billy Goat]

Amare wasnt that good. Carmelo wasnt that good. The Knicks under Dolan will continue to overrate one dimensional scorers and never ask why they dont win. Building a team/overpaying for inefficient players who dont do other things well is why we're always bad. The Amare/Melo years being looked at as some glory years is a little delusional.

[Wonderllama]

What if we draft a complete bust with the 9th pick. Would the fans will call for Mills/Perry to be fired? We ain't gonna have free agent success... the draft is all we got right now.

[Clyde_Style]

Let's discuss what would have been if McDyess didn't wreck his knee while we're at it.

I just ran that scenario through my Butterfly Effect Calculator and the only difference in the outcome would have been Dolan getting a sex change operation and becoming Janis Dolan.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

What if we draft a complete bust with the 9th pick. Would the fans will call for Mills/Perry to be fired? We ain't gonna have free agent success... the draft is all we got right now.

Nah. It’ll be the coach’s fault.

[Clyde_Style]

Amare wasnt that good. Carmelo wasnt that good. The Knicks under Dolan will continue to overrate one dimensional scorers and never ask why they dont win. Building a team/overpaying for inefficient players who dont do other things well is why we're always bad. The Amare/Melo years being looked at as some glory years is a little delusional.

Some people have very low standards.

[Adelheid]

Amare wasnt that good. Carmelo wasnt that good. The Knicks under Dolan will continue to overrate one dimensional scorers and never ask why they dont win. Building a team/overpaying for inefficient players who dont do other things well is why we're always bad. The Amare/Melo years being looked at as some glory years is a little delusional.

Some people have very low standards.

"b-b-but its the best that we have achieved in recent memory. Surely it amounts to something, right?"

[Da ThRONe]

Amare wasnt that good. Carmelo wasnt that good. The Knicks under Dolan will continue to overrate one dimensional scorers and never ask why they dont win. Building a team/overpaying for inefficient players who dont do other things well is why we're always bad. The Amare/Melo years being looked at as some glory years is a little delusional.

Guys like that need the perfect team around them. They need a lot of high end low maintenance role players to succeed. Player who understand their respective roles and are 100% comfortable serving those roles. You can throw James Harden in with the likes of Anthony and Amar'e (although the his FT rate makes his efficiency way higher) as one of those players. It works for James in Houston because the coach and GM created the perfect environment for Harden to put all of his energy into being what he is.

[drekwins]

Amare wasnt that good. Carmelo wasnt that good. The Knicks under Dolan will continue to overrate one dimensional scorers and never ask why they dont win. Building a team/overpaying for inefficient players who dont do other things well is why we're always bad. The Amare/Melo years being looked at as some glory years is a little delusional.

Some people have very low standards.

No... the game just changed. People don't realize that the rule changes have had a big effect on the game and the Knicks have been extremely slow to adapt. Prior to the Melo trade, the top teams were:

Miami - 102 PS/g, 94.6 PA/g
Boston - 96.5 PS/g, 91.1 PA/g
Chicago - 98.6 PS/g, 91.3 PA/g
Los Angeles - 101.5 PS/g, 95.4 PA/g
San Antonio - 103.7PS/g, 98 PA/g

The NBA has since gotten incredibly efficient due to the GS model of playing. ISO scoring is not nearly as emphasized and the center positon is gone. Offenses are now spread out, fast paced and rely on 3 point shooting. Contact is allowed less and less year after year.

When the Knicks brought in Melo and Amare, they thought that ISO scoring was important. At that time, they figured that guys like Melo and Amare could overcome the suffocating defense of LeBron, KG, Kobe, etc. Since they were the big obstacles to a ring, they thought that they would now have a chance since their top 2 guys could score on anyone. Just to show how drastically the game has changed, imagine that an inefficient Derek Rose was seen as a "superstar."

Then... Golden State came along, played small, shot a high percentage behind the arc on volume shots while also defending as well as anyone. In other words, the calculus changed. The Knicks haven't adapted.

Fast forward only 7 years later and the top 5 teams look like this:

Houston - 112.4 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Golden State - 113.5 PS/g, 107.5 PA/g
Toronto - 111.7 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Boston - 104 PS/g, 100.4 PA/g
Cleveland - 110.9 PS/g, 109.9 PA/g

[FutureKnicksGM]

The initial Melo trade had all the markings of an Isiah/Dolan move

Mozgov is the piece that all of Dolan's meddling meant we lost. And what half the board has been crying about ever since.

Timothy F'kn Mozgov. He's the piece that makes it go from a classic Donnie Walsh Miracle Worker move to an Isiah/Dolan move? Come on.

All that matters are the picks, which Donnie gave away far to easily. Donnie was trash.

Donnie wasn't trash. You keep writing the same garbage every time his name is brought up.

The Melo trade was bad with or without Mozgov. And it was all Dolan's doing.

The free pass you give Walsh compared to other Knicks decision makers is delusional. They have all been bad.

Yes the Melo trade was bad with or without Mozgov given our leverage at time. The deal without Mozgov was Donnie's deal. Dolan threw in Mozgov on top and made a bad deal worse.

But his worst move by far was the HOU deal. Look at what he gave up to move the last year of a MLE contract. He gave away the equivalent of Frank Ntilikina, 2019 First Round Swap & 2020 First to move Lance Thomas' money off the books for next season. Massive overpay, which turned out to be his go to move.

[whocares1]

Mozgov is the piece that all of Dolan's meddling meant we lost. And what half the board has been crying about ever since.

Timothy F'kn Mozgov. He's the piece that makes it go from a classic Donnie Walsh Miracle Worker move to an Isiah/Dolan move? Come on.

All that matters are the picks, which Donnie gave away far to easily. Donnie was trash.

Donnie wasn't trash. You keep writing the same garbage every time his name is brought up.

The Melo trade was bad with or without Mozgov. And it was all Dolan's doing.

The free pass you give Walsh compared to other Knicks decision makers is delusional. They have all been bad.

Yes the Melo trade was bad with or without Mozgov given our leverage at time. The deal without Mozgov was Donnie's deal. Dolan threw in Mozgov on top and made a bad deal worse.

But his worst move by far was the HOU deal. Look at what he gave up to move the last year of a MLE contract. He gave away the equivalent of Frank Ntilikina, 2019 First Round Swap & 2020 First to move Lance Thomas' money off the books for next season. Massive overpay, which turned out to be his go to move.

Walsh was a terrible GM. Trading picks for cap space in the hopes that you can acquire a big name free agent is never good management. Then trading away all your assets for success that was never going to be sustainable, and then relying on free agency for your talent. How was he a good GM MP4?

[thebuzzardman]

Donnie wasn't trash. You keep writing the same garbage every time his name is brought up.

The Melo trade was bad with or without Mozgov. And it was all Dolan's doing.

The free pass you give Walsh compared to other Knicks decision makers is delusional. They have all been bad.

Yes the Melo trade was bad with or without Mozgov given our leverage at time. The deal without Mozgov was Donnie's deal. Dolan threw in Mozgov on top and made a bad deal worse.

But his worst move by far was the HOU deal. Look at what he gave up to move the last year of a MLE contract. He gave away the equivalent of Frank Ntilikina, 2019 First Round Swap & 2020 First to move Lance Thomas' money off the books for next season. Massive overpay, which turned out to be his go to move.

Walsh was a terrible GM. Trading picks for cap space in the hopes that you can acquire a big name free agent is never good management. Then trading away all your assets for success that was never going to be sustainable, and then relying on free agency for your talent. How was he a good GM MP4?

Walsh was "ok"

He just seemed "good" because he followed so much suck.

[dakomish23]

Umm...they fired the coach that went against what they wanted. It's not lip service. They said it again in the press conference the other day. Not sure what you're not getting.

Last summer they laid out the plan. They allowed Jeff full reign to coach his way. He knew what the expectations were. He did an ok job balancing youth and winning until Timmy got hurt. Then he lost his mind.

They had to step in and tell him to play the kids after a while. Jeff resisted. Now he's looking for a job.

We are a young rebuild trying to establish a direction and an identity. We are not there yet. Itv takes time. Some people don't get that.

I don’t even know how to respond to someone who’s going to create an alternative reality

This fairytale about a rogue coach, who despite being on the hot seat, still didn’t listen to the folks who control his employment, is just another way to absolve a franchise that chased LHF instead of focusing on the youth movement.

Oh..ok...alternate reality? Fairytale? Go put on your Carmelo pajamas and hug your Carmelo doll for reassurance.

Facts. FO wrote a mission statement to the fans about youth movement. About player development. About W/L didn't matter. About playing defense. They allowed Jeff to run his own show with those expectations. These are indisputable facts.

Facts. Jeff shyt on players. Didn't play many of the kids. Didn't try to develop many of the kids most of the year. Tried to win with vet led rotations. Had to be told to play the kids. He was fired. Indisputable facts.

The only alternate reality is the one where you're actually paying attention to facts.

You have no where else to go after your fiction novel so you jump to bashing me for supporting Melo, hoping to land a punch.



Nice try.

You want facts?

Here is a quote from the beginning of the year directly from the front office who have been flawless in your eyes:

“We’re not dictating who plays”, he said. “We won’t tell Jeff who to play.

The president of basketball operations said these words. So your fairytale that they wanted him to play the kids and he didn’t listen just went up in smoke.

Anytime folks aren’t fooled by this garbage organization, you suit up.

[dakomish23]

Amare wasnt that good. Carmelo wasnt that good. The Knicks under Dolan will continue to overrate one dimensional scorers and never ask why they dont win. Building a team/overpaying for inefficient players who dont do other things well is why we're always bad. The Amare/Melo years being looked at as some glory years is a little delusional.

Some people have very low standards.

No... the game just changed. People don't realize that the rule changes have had a big effect on the game and the Knicks have been extremely slow to adapt. Prior to the Melo trade, the top teams were:

Miami - 102 PS/g, 94.6 PA/g
Boston - 96.5 PS/g, 91.1 PA/g
Chicago - 98.6 PS/g, 91.3 PA/g
Los Angeles - 101.5 PS/g, 95.4 PA/g
San Antonio - 103.7PS/g, 98 PA/g

The NBA has since gotten incredibly efficient due to the GS model of playing. ISO scoring is not nearly as emphasized and the center positon is gone. Offenses are now spread out, fast paced and rely on 3 point shooting. Contact is allowed less and less year after year.

When the Knicks brought in Melo and Amare, they thought that ISO scoring was important. At that time, they figured that guys like Melo and Amare could overcome the suffocating defense of LeBron, KG, Kobe, etc. Since they were the big obstacles to a ring, they thought that they would now have a chance since their top 2 guys could score on anyone. Just to show how drastically the game has changed, imagine that an inefficient Derek Rose was seen as a "superstar."

Then... Golden State came along, played small, shot a high percentage behind the arc on volume shots while also defending as well as anyone. In other words, the calculus changed. The Knicks haven't adapted.

Fast forward only 7 years later and the top 5 teams look like this:

Houston - 112.4 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Golden State - 113.5 PS/g, 107.5 PA/g
Toronto - 111.7 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Boston - 104 PS/g, 100.4 PA/g
Cleveland - 110.9 PS/g, 109.9 PA/g

Guess who leads the NBA in isolation frequency?

Harden.

Guess who’s 2nd?

CP3

Isolation basketball will never go away. The ability to score one on one is still one of the most important skill sets in the NBA. How you generate those looks & what options are available other than the person with the ball is what changed.

[Billy Goat]

Some people have very low standards.

No... the game just changed. People don't realize that the rule changes have had a big effect on the game and the Knicks have been extremely slow to adapt. Prior to the Melo trade, the top teams were:

Miami - 102 PS/g, 94.6 PA/g
Boston - 96.5 PS/g, 91.1 PA/g
Chicago - 98.6 PS/g, 91.3 PA/g
Los Angeles - 101.5 PS/g, 95.4 PA/g
San Antonio - 103.7PS/g, 98 PA/g

The NBA has since gotten incredibly efficient due to the GS model of playing. ISO scoring is not nearly as emphasized and the center positon is gone. Offenses are now spread out, fast paced and rely on 3 point shooting. Contact is allowed less and less year after year.

When the Knicks brought in Melo and Amare, they thought that ISO scoring was important. At that time, they figured that guys like Melo and Amare could overcome the suffocating defense of LeBron, KG, Kobe, etc. Since they were the big obstacles to a ring, they thought that they would now have a chance since their top 2 guys could score on anyone. Just to show how drastically the game has changed, imagine that an inefficient Derek Rose was seen as a "superstar."

Then... Golden State came along, played small, shot a high percentage behind the arc on volume shots while also defending as well as anyone. In other words, the calculus changed. The Knicks haven't adapted.

Fast forward only 7 years later and the top 5 teams look like this:

Houston - 112.4 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Golden State - 113.5 PS/g, 107.5 PA/g
Toronto - 111.7 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Boston - 104 PS/g, 100.4 PA/g
Cleveland - 110.9 PS/g, 109.9 PA/g

Guess who leads the NBA in isolation frequency?

Harden.

Guess who’s 2nd?

CP3

Isolation basketball will never go away. The ability to score one on one is still one of the most important skill sets in the NBA. How you generate those looks & what options are available other than the person with the ball is what changed.

It works for them because they're two of the best playmakers/passers in the league.

[dakomish23]

No... the game just changed. People don't realize that the rule changes have had a big effect on the game and the Knicks have been extremely slow to adapt. Prior to the Melo trade, the top teams were:

Miami - 102 PS/g, 94.6 PA/g
Boston - 96.5 PS/g, 91.1 PA/g
Chicago - 98.6 PS/g, 91.3 PA/g
Los Angeles - 101.5 PS/g, 95.4 PA/g
San Antonio - 103.7PS/g, 98 PA/g

The NBA has since gotten incredibly efficient due to the GS model of playing. ISO scoring is not nearly as emphasized and the center positon is gone. Offenses are now spread out, fast paced and rely on 3 point shooting. Contact is allowed less and less year after year.

When the Knicks brought in Melo and Amare, they thought that ISO scoring was important. At that time, they figured that guys like Melo and Amare could overcome the suffocating defense of LeBron, KG, Kobe, etc. Since they were the big obstacles to a ring, they thought that they would now have a chance since their top 2 guys could score on anyone. Just to show how drastically the game has changed, imagine that an inefficient Derek Rose was seen as a "superstar."

Then... Golden State came along, played small, shot a high percentage behind the arc on volume shots while also defending as well as anyone. In other words, the calculus changed. The Knicks haven't adapted.

Fast forward only 7 years later and the top 5 teams look like this:

Houston - 112.4 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Golden State - 113.5 PS/g, 107.5 PA/g
Toronto - 111.7 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Boston - 104 PS/g, 100.4 PA/g
Cleveland - 110.9 PS/g, 109.9 PA/g

Guess who leads the NBA in isolation frequency?

Harden.

Guess who’s 2nd?

CP3

Isolation basketball will never go away. The ability to score one on one is still one of the most important skill sets in the NBA. How you generate those looks & what options are available other than the person with the ball is what changed.

It works for them because they're two of the best playmakers/passers in the league.

The idea that was presented is that iso basketball is dead.

It clearly isn’t.

[Deeeez Knicks]

In hindsite, if we would have not used our amnesty on Billups to sign Tyson, and eventually used the amnesty on Amare we would have had a chance.

We cornered ourselves in once we signed Tyson.

[Billy Goat]

Guess who leads the NBA in isolation frequency?

Harden.

Guess who’s 2nd?

CP3

Isolation basketball will never go away. The ability to score one on one is still one of the most important skill sets in the NBA. How you generate those looks & what options are available other than the person with the ball is what changed.

It works for them because they're two of the best playmakers/passers in the league.

The idea that was presented is that iso basketball is dead.

It clearly isn’t.

It is for those who cant pass and play on the perimeter.

[EchelonNYK]

Note the word "Rebuild". Let's see if they have that same energy once the season starts.

[dakomish23]

It works for them because they're two of the best playmakers/passers in the league.

The idea that was presented is that iso basketball is dead.

It clearly isn’t.

It is for those who cant pass and play on the perimeter.

Disagree. If you can get buckets consistently, it’s still valuable.

That’s the point of an offense. Put the ball in the hoop.

[drekwins]

Some people have very low standards.

No... the game just changed. People don't realize that the rule changes have had a big effect on the game and the Knicks have been extremely slow to adapt. Prior to the Melo trade, the top teams were:

Miami - 102 PS/g, 94.6 PA/g
Boston - 96.5 PS/g, 91.1 PA/g
Chicago - 98.6 PS/g, 91.3 PA/g
Los Angeles - 101.5 PS/g, 95.4 PA/g
San Antonio - 103.7PS/g, 98 PA/g

The NBA has since gotten incredibly efficient due to the GS model of playing. ISO scoring is not nearly as emphasized and the center positon is gone. Offenses are now spread out, fast paced and rely on 3 point shooting. Contact is allowed less and less year after year.

When the Knicks brought in Melo and Amare, they thought that ISO scoring was important. At that time, they figured that guys like Melo and Amare could overcome the suffocating defense of LeBron, KG, Kobe, etc. Since they were the big obstacles to a ring, they thought that they would now have a chance since their top 2 guys could score on anyone. Just to show how drastically the game has changed, imagine that an inefficient Derek Rose was seen as a "superstar."

Then... Golden State came along, played small, shot a high percentage behind the arc on volume shots while also defending as well as anyone. In other words, the calculus changed. The Knicks haven't adapted.

Fast forward only 7 years later and the top 5 teams look like this:

Houston - 112.4 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Golden State - 113.5 PS/g, 107.5 PA/g
Toronto - 111.7 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Boston - 104 PS/g, 100.4 PA/g
Cleveland - 110.9 PS/g, 109.9 PA/g

Guess who leads the NBA in isolation frequency?

Harden.

Guess who’s 2nd?

CP3

Isolation basketball will never go away. The ability to score one on one is still one of the most important skill sets in the NBA. How you generate those looks & what options are available other than the person with the ball is what changed.

Okay... I don't disagree but those guys are also playmakers for others. Neither Melo or Amare were that. Neither was exceptional good at the 3 either. They're more different than they are alike.