Mills: Dolan Wants Us To Be Patient With Knicks' Rebuild

[dakomish23]

No... the game just changed. People don't realize that the rule changes have had a big effect on the game and the Knicks have been extremely slow to adapt. Prior to the Melo trade, the top teams were:

Miami - 102 PS/g, 94.6 PA/g
Boston - 96.5 PS/g, 91.1 PA/g
Chicago - 98.6 PS/g, 91.3 PA/g
Los Angeles - 101.5 PS/g, 95.4 PA/g
San Antonio - 103.7PS/g, 98 PA/g

The NBA has since gotten incredibly efficient due to the GS model of playing. ISO scoring is not nearly as emphasized and the center positon is gone. Offenses are now spread out, fast paced and rely on 3 point shooting. Contact is allowed less and less year after year.

When the Knicks brought in Melo and Amare, they thought that ISO scoring was important. At that time, they figured that guys like Melo and Amare could overcome the suffocating defense of LeBron, KG, Kobe, etc. Since they were the big obstacles to a ring, they thought that they would now have a chance since their top 2 guys could score on anyone. Just to show how drastically the game has changed, imagine that an inefficient Derek Rose was seen as a "superstar."

Then... Golden State came along, played small, shot a high percentage behind the arc on volume shots while also defending as well as anyone. In other words, the calculus changed. The Knicks haven't adapted.

Fast forward only 7 years later and the top 5 teams look like this:

Houston - 112.4 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Golden State - 113.5 PS/g, 107.5 PA/g
Toronto - 111.7 PS/g, 103.9 PA/g
Boston - 104 PS/g, 100.4 PA/g
Cleveland - 110.9 PS/g, 109.9 PA/g

Guess who leads the NBA in isolation frequency?

Harden.

Guess who’s 2nd?

CP3

Isolation basketball will never go away. The ability to score one on one is still one of the most important skill sets in the NBA. How you generate those looks & what options are available other than the person with the ball is what changed.

Okay... I don't disagree but those guys are also playmakers for others. Neither Melo or Amare were that. Neither was exceptional good at the 3 either. They're more different than they are alike.

If you’re saying that being a playmaker for others makes the person who does the ISO so much more of a weapon - I 100% agree.

To me the issue with going to get Amare & Melo was defense, real estate they like to occupy & the fit with the rest of the roster. Each one sucked on D. Each one liked working in the same area. Each one requires very specific surrounding pieces to maximize their impact.

If you had 3 3&D guys who also could pass well, then maybe it would of worked.

[drekwins]

Guess who leads the NBA in isolation frequency?

Harden.

Guess who’s 2nd?

CP3

Isolation basketball will never go away. The ability to score one on one is still one of the most important skill sets in the NBA. How you generate those looks & what options are available other than the person with the ball is what changed.

It works for them because they're two of the best playmakers/passers in the league.

The idea that was presented is that iso basketball is dead.

It clearly isn’t.

Also, the point wasn't that ISO basketball is dead. It's that offenses are spread out and have become more efficient than ever via dribble penetration/passing/3's/smallball all while still being able to defend. It has nothing to do with ISO or one on one ball. However, with the game becoming less physical, efficiency has increased across the board and transitioned basketball towards a more finesse game.

Previously, the thought was that a team wouldn't be able to defend or rebound if they played "small." However, with the physicality taken out of the game, that's no longer true. Hence, the calculus has changed. The Knicks were getting players that were good at an "outdated" style in an era with new rules. That was the point.

[thebuzzardman]

If they make a poor coaching choice, any patience I have left will pretty much be gone. Well, depends how bad a choice. I'll have a certain amount of patience because simple logic has the team as not winning much for at least two more years. It's really how those years are spent, does the team have really good effort, are they really developing youth, is the coach good, that will matter.

[Clyde_Style]

Guess who leads the NBA in isolation frequency?

Harden.

Guess who’s 2nd?

CP3

Isolation basketball will never go away. The ability to score one on one is still one of the most important skill sets in the NBA. How you generate those looks & what options are available other than the person with the ball is what changed.

It works for them because they're two of the best playmakers/passers in the league.

The idea that was presented is that iso basketball is dead.

It clearly isn’t.

It is dead if you just pound the rock and chuck contested shots you can't make instead of passing the ball. The whole advantage of being a great ISO player is using the double and triple teams you draw to exploit defenses which is not the same thing as being a black hole which is what Melo was as a Knick the majority of the time.

[drekwins]

In hindsite, if we would have not used our amnesty on Billups to sign Tyson, and eventually used the amnesty on Amare we would have had a chance.

We cornered ourselves in once we signed Tyson.

We went big when the whole league went small. Classic Knicks.

[whocares1]

If they make a poor coaching choice, any patience I have left will pretty much be gone. Well, depends how bad a choice. I'll have a certain amount of patience because simple logic has the team as not winning much for at least two more years. It's really how those years are spent, does the team have really good effort, are they really developing youth, is the coach good, that will matter.

Judging off your posts this season, I’m scared at the thought of you having zero patience lol.

[jvsimonetti0514]

If you ISO you need to be able to beat your man off the dribble or draw a double team in the post. If you can't do either of these things they're bad ISO's.

[Marty McFly]

Note the word "Rebuild". Let's see if they have that same energy once the season starts.

The offseason will tell whether or not that’s just a rose colored buzzword to sound competent with consideratation of the long view.

[thebuzzardman]

If they make a poor coaching choice, any patience I have left will pretty much be gone. Well, depends how bad a choice. I'll have a certain amount of patience because simple logic has the team as not winning much for at least two more years. It's really how those years are spent, does the team have really good effort, are they really developing youth, is the coach good, that will matter.

Judging off your posts this season, I’m scared at the thought of you having zero patience lol.

Some of those are for entertainment purposes only.

Honestly, I feel like I'll take a break from the team if they bolo the coach hire. It's important in and of itself, but a bad hire, especially of a certain kind, would tell me all that I need to know about the Mills/Perry FO dynamic, unfortunately.

Then again, I'll probably still be here every day.

[Clyde_Style]

If they make a poor coaching choice, any patience I have left will pretty much be gone. Well, depends how bad a choice. I'll have a certain amount of patience because simple logic has the team as not winning much for at least two more years. It's really how those years are spent, does the team have really good effort, are they really developing youth, is the coach good, that will matter.

Judging off your posts this season, I’m scared at the thought of you having zero patience lol.

Some of those are for entertainment purposes only.

Honestly, I feel like I'll take a break from the team if they bolo the coach hire. It's important in and of itself, but a bad hire, especially of a certain kind, would tell me all that I need to know about the Mills/Perry FO dynamic, unfortunately.

Then again, I'll probably still be here every day.

You have RealGM sickness. I'm working on a wonder cure in my lab. Will let you know when the tests are complete.

[cuyankees]

It works for them because they're two of the best playmakers/passers in the league.

The idea that was presented is that iso basketball is dead.

It clearly isn’t.

Also, the point wasn't that ISO basketball is dead. It's that offenses are spread out and have become more efficient than ever via dribble penetration/passing/3's/smallball all while still being able to defend. It has nothing to do with ISO or one on one ball. However, with the game becoming less physical, efficiency has increased across the board and transitioned basketball towards a more finesse game.

Previously, the thought was that a team wouldn't be able to defend or rebound if they played "small." However, with the physicality taken out of the game, that's no longer true. Hence, the calculus has changed. The Knicks were getting players that were good at an "outdated" style in an era with new rules. That was the point.

ISO ball isn’t dead, certain type of player on the court who should ISO have. As already stated, NBA has changed significantly with small ball and any physical contact called immediately and frequently. ISO ball w a long 2 pointer which is the B&B for Melo is very inefficient while ISO ball w Harden or the like ends w a 3 or a foul w 2 free throws which are both options that are more efficient and valued than a long 2 point shot.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I don’t even know how to respond to someone who’s going to create an alternative reality

This fairytale about a rogue coach, who despite being on the hot seat, still didn’t listen to the folks who control his employment, is just another way to absolve a franchise that chased LHF instead of focusing on the youth movement.

Oh..ok...alternate reality? Fairytale? Go put on your Carmelo pajamas and hug your Carmelo doll for reassurance.

Facts. FO wrote a mission statement to the fans about youth movement. About player development. About W/L didn't matter. About playing defense. They allowed Jeff to run his own show with those expectations. These are indisputable facts.

Facts. Jeff shyt on players. Didn't play many of the kids. Didn't try to develop many of the kids most of the year. Tried to win with vet led rotations. Had to be told to play the kids. He was fired. Indisputable facts.

The only alternate reality is the one where you're actually paying attention to facts.

You have no where else to go after your fiction novel so you jump to bashing me for supporting Melo, hoping to land a punch.



Nice try.

You want facts?

Here is a quote from the beginning of the year directly from the front office who have been flawless in your eyes:

“We’re not dictating who plays”, he said. “We won’t tell Jeff who to play.

The president of basketball operations said these words. So your fairytale that they wanted him to play the kids and he didn’t listen just went up in smoke.

Anytime folks aren’t fooled by this garbage organization, you suit up.

You deluded fool. I stated everything we SAW/HEARD this season. Facts. You're endless science fiction posts about Melo are the only fairytales I've read on here.

They wanted a youth movement...player development...defense...progress. They left it up to Jeff to achieve those things. Jeff went vet heavy while losing at a record clip. They had to step in and tell him to play the kids more. Jeff failed. He got fired.

Where's the fairytales? These are cold hard facts. Indisputable and undeniable!

Good day sir.

I SAID GOOD DAY!!!

[Sark]

The guy who wrote Betaball is on Michael Kay Show right now. Spilling the beans to these fools.

[mpharris36]

The guy who wrote Betaball is on Michael Kay Show right now. Spilling the beans to these fools.

thank the lord...expose him!!!

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Dolan stuff.
Interesting.
On Jeff, the next coach, Phil, KP and rebuild.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/18/dolan-talks-about-his-knicks-rebuild-vision/

[Knicksfan20]

The guy who wrote Betaball is on Michael Kay Show right now. Spilling the beans to these fools.

thank the lord...expose him!!!

What was said?

[thebuzzardman]

Oh..ok...alternate reality? Fairytale? Go put on your Carmelo pajamas and hug your Carmelo doll for reassurance.

Facts. FO wrote a mission statement to the fans about youth movement. About player development. About W/L didn't matter. About playing defense. They allowed Jeff to run his own show with those expectations. These are indisputable facts.

Facts. Jeff shyt on players. Didn't play many of the kids. Didn't try to develop many of the kids most of the year. Tried to win with vet led rotations. Had to be told to play the kids. He was fired. Indisputable facts.

The only alternate reality is the one where you're actually paying attention to facts.

You have no where else to go after your fiction novel so you jump to bashing me for supporting Melo, hoping to land a punch.



Nice try.

You want facts?

Here is a quote from the beginning of the year directly from the front office who have been flawless in your eyes:

“We’re not dictating who plays”, he said. “We won’t tell Jeff who to play.

The president of basketball operations said these words. So your fairytale that they wanted him to play the kids and he didn’t listen just went up in smoke.

Anytime folks aren’t fooled by this garbage organization, you suit up.

You deluded fool. I stated everything we SAW/HEARD this season. Facts. You're endless science fiction posts about Melo are the only fairytales I've read on here.

They wanted a youth movement...player development...defense...progress. They left it up to Jeff to achieve those things. Jeff went vet heavy while losing at a record clip. They had to step in and tell him to play the kids more. Jeff failed. He got fired.

Where's the fairytales? These are cold hard facts. Indisputable and undeniable!

Good day sir.

I SAID GOOD DAY!!!

This looks like fun. Jeff went vet heavy early. Now, the Knicks always said they'd try to win if they could but they were rebuilding and developing. And the biggest part of that is KP. Now, as much as we'd like Frank and Dotson and maybe WHG to have gotten more playing time, KP's development probably would have been hampered, to a degree, by too much Frank and Dotson. I guess there is an argument that Jeff got canned for too many vet minutes later in the season, but I don't think that's exactly true. And Kanter and to some degree KOQ, over WHG - it's not like those guys are ancient.

My guess on the reasons Jeff was fired:

- Just not a good defensive coach
- Didn't leverage his staff to have a good defense - I think this is key. In all fairness, he was stuck with Rambis.
- Not a good in game manager
- Didn't manage the ego's of Noah and WHG. Now, WHG whined, but I still think how Jeff didn't manage his expectations, communicate, whatever, gets 1/2 a ding here at least.

I think it's more those things than youth vs vets

[Jalen Bluntson]

You have no where else to go after your fiction novel so you jump to bashing me for supporting Melo, hoping to land a punch.



Nice try.

You want facts?

Here is a quote from the beginning of the year directly from the front office who have been flawless in your eyes:

“We’re not dictating who plays”, he said. “We won’t tell Jeff who to play.

The president of basketball operations said these words. So your fairytale that they wanted him to play the kids and he didn’t listen just went up in smoke.

Anytime folks aren’t fooled by this garbage organization, you suit up.

You deluded fool. I stated everything we SAW/HEARD this season. Facts. You're endless science fiction posts about Melo are the only fairytales I've read on here.

They wanted a youth movement...player development...defense...progress. They left it up to Jeff to achieve those things. Jeff went vet heavy while losing at a record clip. They had to step in and tell him to play the kids more. Jeff failed. He got fired.

Where's the fairytales? These are cold hard facts. Indisputable and undeniable!

Good day sir.

I SAID GOOD DAY!!!

This looks like fun. Jeff went vet heavy early. Now, the Knicks always said they'd try to win if they could but they were rebuilding and developing. And the biggest part of that is KP. Now, as much as we'd like Frank and Dotson and maybe WHG to have gotten more playing time, KP's development probably would have been hampered, to a degree, by too much Frank and Dotson. I guess there is an argument that Jeff got canned for too many vet minutes later in the season, but I don't think that's exactly true. And Kanter and to some degree KOQ, over WHG - it's not like those guys are ancient.

My guess on the reasons Jeff was fired:

- Just not a good defensive coach
- Didn't leverage his staff to have a good defense - I think this is key. In all fairness, he was stuck with Rambis.
- Not a good in game manager
- Didn't manage the ego's of Noah and WHG. Now, WHG whined, but I still think how Jeff didn't manage his expectations, communicate, whatever, gets 1/2 a ding here at least.

I think it's more those things than youth vs vets

It's a culmination of all of it. He runs Beasley/Kanter out there with Burke/Timmy and expects defense? When the season was lost he continued to bury the kids on the bench? When his vet led rotations couldn't buy a win? Shake things up!!! Quick hook the vets like you do the kids!!!

He didn't do anything well that was expected. He seemingly BLATANTLY ignored defense and youth. He got fired. It's not rocket science.

Oh...he was a Phil guy. That's why he was fired. Yeah...that could be a part of it too. The facts still remain...he didn't even try to develop players outside of Frank...which he kind of sucked at too. The young vets Kanter/Timmy seemed to be growing a little defensively at first. Then it disappeared. They had to tell him to let the kids play more than Jack? Seriously?

He's gone. Next up!! Hope we get it right....fear we get it wrong.

[dakomish23]

Oh..ok...alternate reality? Fairytale? Go put on your Carmelo pajamas and hug your Carmelo doll for reassurance.

Facts. FO wrote a mission statement to the fans about youth movement. About player development. About W/L didn't matter. About playing defense. They allowed Jeff to run his own show with those expectations. These are indisputable facts.

Facts. Jeff shyt on players. Didn't play many of the kids. Didn't try to develop many of the kids most of the year. Tried to win with vet led rotations. Had to be told to play the kids. He was fired. Indisputable facts.

The only alternate reality is the one where you're actually paying attention to facts.

You have no where else to go after your fiction novel so you jump to bashing me for supporting Melo, hoping to land a punch.



Nice try.

You want facts?

Here is a quote from the beginning of the year directly from the front office who have been flawless in your eyes:

“We’re not dictating who plays”, he said. “We won’t tell Jeff who to play.

The president of basketball operations said these words. So your fairytale that they wanted him to play the kids and he didn’t listen just went up in smoke.

Anytime folks aren’t fooled by this garbage organization, you suit up.

You deluded fool. I stated everything we SAW/HEARD this season. Facts. You're endless science fiction posts about Melo are the only fairytales I've read on here.

They wanted a youth movement...player development...defense...progress. They left it up to Jeff to achieve those things. Jeff went vet heavy while losing at a record clip. They had to step in and tell him to play the kids more. Jeff failed. He got fired.

Where's the fairytales? These are cold hard facts. Indisputable and undeniable!

Good day sir.

I SAID GOOD DAY!!!

Your fairytales have fallen off since the Odyssey & the Iliad.

They had no problem with him not playing kids.

Their words.

Now you’re saying the FO wanted him to play the kids?

Always a fall guy to leave this organization unblemished

Wonder who you’ll blame next. Maybe the guy who sings and plays the piano? The hot dog vendor?

[thebuzzardman]

You deluded fool. I stated everything we SAW/HEARD this season. Facts. You're endless science fiction posts about Melo are the only fairytales I've read on here.

They wanted a youth movement...player development...defense...progress. They left it up to Jeff to achieve those things. Jeff went vet heavy while losing at a record clip. They had to step in and tell him to play the kids more. Jeff failed. He got fired.

Where's the fairytales? These are cold hard facts. Indisputable and undeniable!

Good day sir.

I SAID GOOD DAY!!!

This looks like fun. Jeff went vet heavy early. Now, the Knicks always said they'd try to win if they could but they were rebuilding and developing. And the biggest part of that is KP. Now, as much as we'd like Frank and Dotson and maybe WHG to have gotten more playing time, KP's development probably would have been hampered, to a degree, by too much Frank and Dotson. I guess there is an argument that Jeff got canned for too many vet minutes later in the season, but I don't think that's exactly true. And Kanter and to some degree KOQ, over WHG - it's not like those guys are ancient.

My guess on the reasons Jeff was fired:

- Just not a good defensive coach
- Didn't leverage his staff to have a good defense - I think this is key. In all fairness, he was stuck with Rambis.
- Not a good in game manager
- Didn't manage the ego's of Noah and WHG. Now, WHG whined, but I still think how Jeff didn't manage his expectations, communicate, whatever, gets 1/2 a ding here at least.

I think it's more those things than youth vs vets

It's a culmination of all of it. He runs Beasley/Kanter out there with Burke/Timmy and expects defense? When the season was lost he continued to bury the kids on the bench? When his vet led rotations couldn't buy a win? Shake things up!!! Quick hook the vets like you do the kids!!!

He didn't do anything well that was expected. He seemingly BLATANTLY ignored defense and youth. He got fired. It's not rocket science.

Oh...he was a Phil guy. That's why he was fired. Yeah...that could be a part of it too. The facts still remain...he didn't even try to develop players outside of Frank...which he kind of sucked at too. The young vets Kanter/Timmy seemed to be growing a little defensively at first. Then it disappeared. They had to tell him to let the kids play more than Jack? Seriously?

He's gone. Next up!! Hope we get it right....fear we get it wrong.

I'm pretty much agree with you. I'm just not sure from the Knicks perspective if the youth thing was a big reason. I think it was in there, no doubt, but as much was the blow ups and lack of communication (there may have been some KP stuff in there too).

Let's not forget KP and Courtney Lee, but especially Lee, were making snide remarks, taking pot shots at somebody on the coaching staff in Jeff's first season.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/1/16/14288602/knicks-vs-hawks-courtney-lee-benched-instagram-post