Porzingis rehab taking place in Spain

[Ignitowsky]

You know when a team is rebuilding right away. It ain’t hard to tell. Miss me with that nonsense. People said we were rebuilding last year and developing players while we signed more vets and refused to give the #8 pick consistent minutes over Jared Jack until post ASB...

When the off-season starts and the Knicks make moves they will show what is real. When the season starts and we see how minute distribution is handled we will know what’s up.

It won’t take years to see what’s what.

what I was trying to say is that it's going to take years to see how successful we are in whatever attempt we make to rebuild. You're a hundred percent right that it would be a bad sign if we brought in guys like Michael Beasley are cheap contracts this summer. we should be bringing in young kids hoping to strike gold rather than bringing in washed up players.

I think one of the things that cost Hornacek his job was that he wasn't following the program. Until proven otherwise, I will continue to believe we are doing a real rebuild.

Mills didn’t have a problem with Jeff not playing WHG.

If the FO was all about the kids and Jeff did t listen, why would he say that? Why would they keep him on as coach all year?

I 100% agree with you on the approach we should be taking and even have a glimmer of hope that they will not follow what happened last year. But if they’re doing the same things (signing more vets, vets get minutes over the kids) then it can’t be blamed on the coach again.

I agree and I'll add that Jeff should have been fired way earlier than he was. I don't know why Perry and Mills gave him until the end of the season. had he been fired, the development of some of our kids might have been further along.

[GONYK]

what I was trying to say is that it's going to take years to see how successful we are in whatever attempt we make to rebuild. You're a hundred percent right that it would be a bad sign if we brought in guys like Michael Beasley are cheap contracts this summer. we should be bringing in young kids hoping to strike gold rather than bringing in washed up players.

I think one of the things that cost Hornacek his job was that he wasn't following the program. Until proven otherwise, I will continue to believe we are doing a real rebuild.

Mills didn’t have a problem with Jeff not playing WHG.

If the FO was all about the kids and Jeff did t listen, why would he say that? Why would they keep him on as coach all year?

I 100% agree with you on the approach we should be taking and even have a glimmer of hope that they will not follow what happened last year. But if they’re doing the same things (signing more vets, vets get minutes over the kids) then it can’t be blamed on the coach again.

I agree and I'll add that Jeff should have been fired way earlier than he was. I don't know why Perry and Mills gave him until the end of the season. had he been fired, the development of some of our kids might have been further along.

Fire him so Rambis can coach the year?

[Ignitowsky]

Mills didn’t have a problem with Jeff not playing WHG.

If the FO was all about the kids and Jeff did t listen, why would he say that? Why would they keep him on as coach all year?

I 100% agree with you on the approach we should be taking and even have a glimmer of hope that they will not follow what happened last year. But if they’re doing the same things (signing more vets, vets get minutes over the kids) then it can’t be blamed on the coach again.

I agree and I'll add that Jeff should have been fired way earlier than he was. I don't know why Perry and Mills gave him until the end of the season. had he been fired, the development of some of our kids might have been further along.

Fire him so Rambis can coach the year?

No, Fizdale was available .

[GONYK]

I agree and I'll add that Jeff should have been fired way earlier than he was. I don't know why Perry and Mills gave him until the end of the season. had he been fired, the development of some of our kids might have been further along.

Fire him so Rambis can coach the year?

No, Fizdale was available .

Coaches almost never get hired mid-season.

Fizdale was hired after we spoke to 11 people. He still needs to fill out his staff and have a full training camp.

What would hiring him mid-season with no staff and no orientation into his system accomplish?

Why would the Knicks want to hire someone without an actual hiring process?

[Ignitowsky]

Fire him so Rambis can coach the year?

No, Fizdale was available .

Coaches almost never get hired mid-season.

Fizdale was hired after we spoke to 11 people. He still needs to fill out his staff and have a full training camp.

What would hiring him mid-season with no staff and no orientation into his system accomplish?

Why would the Knicks want to hire someone without an actual hiring process?

All I'm saying is that if they were unhappy with the way Jeff was coaching the team, not playing the youngsters, not having good team chemistry, play lousy defense, having no cohesive offense, it would not have her to fire Jeff and replace him with someone with clear instructions to do things differently. At the very least I think guys like Frank would be ahead of where they are now. I think they knew they were going to fire Jeff way before they did it, and I think it was a mistake not to get rid of him when they knew he was a goner. and we probably would have lost a few more games along the way and would have had a better draft slot right now.

Everyone knew that Jeff should have been fired, and that includes Mills and Perry. I see no point in waiting until after the last game of the season

[GONYK]

No, Fizdale was available .

Coaches almost never get hired mid-season.

Fizdale was hired after we spoke to 11 people. He still needs to fill out his staff and have a full training camp.

What would hiring him mid-season with no staff and no orientation into his system accomplish?

Why would the Knicks want to hire someone without an actual hiring process?

All I'm saying is that if they were unhappy with the way Jeff was coaching the team, not playing the youngsters, not having good team chemistry, play lousy defense, having no cohesive offense, it would not have her to fire Jeff and replace him with someone with clear instructions to do things differently. At the very least I think guys like Frank would be ahead of where they are now. I think they knew they were going to fire Jeff way before they did it, and I think it was a mistake not to get rid of him when they knew he was a goner. and we probably would have lost a few more games along the way and would have had a better draft slot right now.

Everyone knew that Jeff should have been fired, and that includes Mills and Perry. I see no point in waiting until after the last game of the season

Well, there are issues with that approach, and Mills and Perry addressed them in the presser after they fired Jeff.

The prevailing perception coming into last season was that Jeff was forced to run the Triangle, even though that wasn't his preferred offense, and thus we don't know what kind of coach he actually is. There was also the perception that Knick management interferes with the coaches too much as a whole.

Mills and Perry came into last season saying that everyone will get the full year to be evaluated. That went for coaches and players. Jeff didn't defy their instructions. They didn't give him any. They gave him free reign to coach the team as he saw fit, and they would evaluate what kind of coach he was. Obviously, they found him lacking.

Firing Jeff midseason accomplishes nothing. In fact, it was counter-productive for a few reasons:

- They weren't going to get a new coach in the middle of the season.
- Rambis as an interim with clear instructions on who to play isn't really an improvement. Especially since he would just be running Jeff's stuff still.
- It shows that Knick management is impatient, and only reinforces that they are meddlesome. That is the exact perception they were looking to dispel when entering the coaching FA market. How can they claim they are looking for a coach to embark on a patient rebuild after that?

If you think losing a few extra games and getting Frank a few more mins outweighs that stuff, that's fine. In an ideal world, I would have liked there to be a mandate to play the young guys as well. There is definitely long term logic to their approach as well though.
Especially if Fiz is the type of coach who does all those things without needing to be told.

[Ignitowsky]

Coaches almost never get hired mid-season.

Fizdale was hired after we spoke to 11 people. He still needs to fill out his staff and have a full training camp.

What would hiring him mid-season with no staff and no orientation into his system accomplish?

Why would the Knicks want to hire someone without an actual hiring process?

All I'm saying is that if they were unhappy with the way Jeff was coaching the team, not playing the youngsters, not having good team chemistry, play lousy defense, having no cohesive offense, it would not have her to fire Jeff and replace him with someone with clear instructions to do things differently. At the very least I think guys like Frank would be ahead of where they are now. I think they knew they were going to fire Jeff way before they did it, and I think it was a mistake not to get rid of him when they knew he was a goner. and we probably would have lost a few more games along the way and would have had a better draft slot right now.

Everyone knew that Jeff should have been fired, and that includes Mills and Perry. I see no point in waiting until after the last game of the season

Well, there are issues with that approach, and Mills and Perry addressed them in the presser after they fired Jeff.

The prevailing perception coming into last season was that Jeff was forced to run the Triangle, even though that wasn't his preferred offense, and thus we don't know what kind of coach he actually is. There was also the perception that Knick management interferes with the coaches too much as a whole.

Mills and Perry came into last season saying that everyone will get the full year to be evaluated. That went for coaches and players. Jeff didn't defy their instructions. They didn't give him any. They gave him free reign to coach the team as he saw fit, and they would evaluate what kind of coach he was. Obviously, they found him lacking.

Firing Jeff midseason accomplishes nothing. In fact, it was counter-productive for a few reasons:

- They weren't going to get a new coach in the middle of the season.
- Rambis as an interim with clear instructions on who to play shows that the Knick management isn't really an improvement. Especially since he would just be running Jeff's stuff still.
- It shows that Knick management is impatient, and only reinforces that they are meddlesome. That is the exact perception they were looking to dispel when entering the coaching FA market. How can they claim they are looking for a coach to embark on a patient rebuild after that?

If you think losing a few extra games and getting Frank a few more mins outweighs that stuff, that's fine. In an ideal world, I would have liked there to be a mandate to play the young guys as well. There is definitely long term logic to their approach as well though.
Especially if Fiz is the type of coach who does all those things without needing to be told.

very fair point about giving Jeff the full year.

[Jalen Bluntson]

All I'm saying is that if they were unhappy with the way Jeff was coaching the team, not playing the youngsters, not having good team chemistry, play lousy defense, having no cohesive offense, it would not have her to fire Jeff and replace him with someone with clear instructions to do things differently. At the very least I think guys like Frank would be ahead of where they are now. I think they knew they were going to fire Jeff way before they did it, and I think it was a mistake not to get rid of him when they knew he was a goner. and we probably would have lost a few more games along the way and would have had a better draft slot right now.

Everyone knew that Jeff should have been fired, and that includes Mills and Perry. I see no point in waiting until after the last game of the season

Well, there are issues with that approach, and Mills and Perry addressed them in the presser after they fired Jeff.

The prevailing perception coming into last season was that Jeff was forced to run the Triangle, even though that wasn't his preferred offense, and thus we don't know what kind of coach he actually is. There was also the perception that Knick management interferes with the coaches too much as a whole.

Mills and Perry came into last season saying that everyone will get the full year to be evaluated. That went for coaches and players. Jeff didn't defy their instructions. They didn't give him any. They gave him free reign to coach the team as he saw fit, and they would evaluate what kind of coach he was. Obviously, they found him lacking.

Firing Jeff midseason accomplishes nothing. In fact, it was counter-productive for a few reasons:

- They weren't going to get a new coach in the middle of the season.
- Rambis as an interim with clear instructions on who to play shows that the Knick management isn't really an improvement. Especially since he would just be running Jeff's stuff still.
- It shows that Knick management is impatient, and only reinforces that they are meddlesome. That is the exact perception they were looking to dispel when entering the coaching FA market. How can they claim they are looking for a coach to embark on a patient rebuild after that?

If you think losing a few extra games and getting Frank a few more mins outweighs that stuff, that's fine. In an ideal world, I would have liked there to be a mandate to play the young guys as well. There is definitely long term logic to their approach as well though.
Especially if Fiz is the type of coach who does all those things without needing to be told.

very fair point about giving Jeff the full year.

They gave him the full year. No interference. They also laid out what they were looking to establish in that year. Youth movement. Defense. Accountability. W/L DID NOT MATTER. Jeff ignored everything and tried to win at all costs. He lost his job because of that.

[Greenie]

Poor Greenie think chit supposed to happpen overnight. Trading that bum Melo and getting rid of Jeff I only care about wins even if it means I don’t play the young guys Hornacek was the first steps. Now we got a coach who is down with he rebuild. It’s as if you don’t think being on the same page matters. But only knowledgeable fans can see this is a process and not some overnight chit like you expect it to be. Come with facts about the process. Don’t just ignore my facts about the process and come with a one liner.

You really shouldn’t talk knowledge at all. Your view on this situation has been wrong from the jump(looking at your views on Jeff AND the roster headed into this past season). You have your blinders on and the Knicks can do no wrong even though they keep showing your simple being different.

That bum Melo? Yeah, trading that “bum” did nothing in reality because the Knicks played their cards wrong. That’s why we’re sitting here with Timmy on a huge contract and possibly Kanter too. That’s not even mentioning Noah’s cap hit that’s pure dead weight because Jeff refused to play him at all. So all you got from trading that “bum” was another wasted season stuck in no mans land and ANOTHER low lotto pick...and Melo ISN’T. EVEN. HERE! Guess you can’t place this organizations incompetence on him anymore...

...but you wanna talk knowledge.

The only one that thinks a rebuild is overnight is you. That’s why you were rooting for the playoffs until KP got hurt even though this team had shown it’s true colors and made it known they lacked overall talent but steadily played Jack over Frank who was our rookie lotto pick.

...but issa rebuild?

Nah. ISSA A RE-TOOL. Learn the difference. You preach this same **** every year, then get mad when other people don’t drink the kool-aid.

You don’t know what the fuq Fiz will do. He hasn’t coached a damn game for us yet. Jeff was on the same page too last offseason after we traded Melo and most on this board(including you) placed all of our ailments on him thinking he was the one making Jeff look bad. You all that felt took several damn seats on Jeff this year.

This year you seem to be on the “Jeff was the problem” and all is well.

News flash:

Jeff was in fact a problem but he wasn’t the only problem. Jeff didn’t sign one free agent. That was Mills and Perry. Jeff didn’t trade for one single player. That’s Mills and Perry. Jeff can only play what’s on the roster. Mills and Perry gave Jeff all of Jack, Beasley and Sessions. Along with trading Willy and signing Timmy to his contract.

Wasn’t Mills the guy that said youth and defense LAST YEAR? Or nah? Those moves are the OPPOSITE of that and don’t have a got damn thing to do with Jeff.


As I said before, which you seem not to grasp. The Knicks have to show me. I’m no longer here for their verbiage. Words don’t move me anymore. Actions do.

That bum Melo? Yeah, trading that “bum” did nothing in reality because the Knicks played their cards wrong. That’s why we’re sitting here with Timmy on a huge contract and possibly Kanter too. That’s not even mentioning Noah’s cap hit that’s pure dead weight because Jeff refused to play him at all. So all you got from trading that “bum” was another wasted season stuck in no mans land and ANOTHER low lotto pick...and Melo ISN’T. EVEN. HERE! Guess you can’t place this organizations incompetence on him anymore...

Timmy is 25 and was coming off a career year. try again. Kanter has a OPT out clause. Never said it was Melo's fault. I only blamed Melo for the ball not moving.

...but you wanna talk knowledge.

The only one that thinks a rebuild is overnight is you. That’s why you were rooting for the playoffs until KP got hurt even though this team had shown it’s true colors and made it known they lacked overall talent but steadily played Jack over Frank who was our rookie lotto pick.

Everyone knows I never root for tank off rip I said that all during the season. Im the first to admit. If we win games with the young guys playing well (KP & Timm) then fine. However I was over Jack for the longest. The minute he started Jacking up more shots I said it was time to give Frank the keys. Once that didnt happen I was in tank mode bc I see Jeff didnt care about the future. Thats a fact!! So it was BEFORE KP went down. If you want to talk about my views at least come with facts.

Nah. ISSA A RE-TOOL. Learn the difference. You preach this same **** every year, then get mad when other people don’t drink the kool-aid.

You don’t know what the fuq Fiz will do. He hasn’t coached a damn game for us yet. Jeff was on the same page too last offseason after we traded Melo and most on this board(including you) placed all of our ailments on him thinking he was the one making Jeff look bad. You all that felt took several damn seats on Jeff this year.

This year you seem to be on the “Jeff was the problem” and all is well.

Here'es a quote to answer you!

We have a plan on what this team should look like over the next three years, and we just thought this was the opportunity and right time to change

We just thought there was an opportunity to get someone who really fit where we want to be three-to-five years from now.”

Jeff was not part of the rebuild and it was a waste year like I keep trying to drill into your head.

“Patience hasn’t been one of our biggest attributes here,” Mills said, “and [Dolan has] given us the room to be patient, to develop players, develop a culture within the organization. Unlike in the past, when you’re constantly trying to hit home runs and striking out, this is an opportunity to build something from the ground up.’’

Oh look they admit they havent had patience in the past! You must of missed this article.

“One of the most important characteristics is that in today’s NBA, the coach is not on an island by itself,” Mills said. “The coach is part of the team that is part of the front office. We need to find someone that understands that the three of us are in this together and this is a group effort.’’

Oh they just came out and said this huh?? Jeff was on his own fawking boat. Thats why he got fired like he was a POS.

BTW I didnt place anything on Jeff. Melo makes Melo look bad.

Jeff was in fact a problem but he wasn’t the only problem. Jeff didn’t sign one free agent. That was Mills and Perry. Jeff didn’t trade for one single player. That’s Mills and Perry. Jeff can only play what’s on the roster. Mills and Perry gave Jeff all of Jack, Beasley and Sessions. Along with trading Willy and signing Timmy to his contract.

Wasn’t Mills the guy that said youth and defense LAST YEAR? Or nah? Those moves are the OPPOSITE of that and don’t have a got damn thing to do with Jeff.


As I said before, which you seem not to grasp. The Knicks have to show me. I’m no longer here for their verbiage. Words don’t move me anymore. Actions do.

So the knicks didnt sign Jack and Sessions to mentor???? Yeah wrong again. Hardaway like I said is 25 and everyone else was on stop gap deals. Keep trying though. Like i said this is a new page and if they fawk up again I'll gladly bow down to you and join the shamgod thread.

All of this and you said absolutely nothing.
You can’t drill **** into my head because you, yourself don’t know anything.

Put me on that foe list. Tired of going in a circle with you while you comprehend absolutely nothing I’m typing. We don’t agree and never will.

[Greenie]

Well, there are issues with that approach, and Mills and Perry addressed them in the presser after they fired Jeff.

The prevailing perception coming into last season was that Jeff was forced to run the Triangle, even though that wasn't his preferred offense, and thus we don't know what kind of coach he actually is. There was also the perception that Knick management interferes with the coaches too much as a whole.

Mills and Perry came into last season saying that everyone will get the full year to be evaluated. That went for coaches and players. Jeff didn't defy their instructions. They didn't give him any. They gave him free reign to coach the team as he saw fit, and they would evaluate what kind of coach he was. Obviously, they found him lacking.

Firing Jeff midseason accomplishes nothing. In fact, it was counter-productive for a few reasons:

- They weren't going to get a new coach in the middle of the season.
- Rambis as an interim with clear instructions on who to play shows that the Knick management isn't really an improvement. Especially since he would just be running Jeff's stuff still.
- It shows that Knick management is impatient, and only reinforces that they are meddlesome. That is the exact perception they were looking to dispel when entering the coaching FA market. How can they claim they are looking for a coach to embark on a patient rebuild after that?

If you think losing a few extra games and getting Frank a few more mins outweighs that stuff, that's fine. In an ideal world, I would have liked there to be a mandate to play the young guys as well. There is definitely long term logic to their approach as well though.
Especially if Fiz is the type of coach who does all those things without needing to be told.

very fair point about giving Jeff the full year.

They gave him the full year. No interference. They also laid out what they were looking to establish in that year. Youth movement. Defense. Accountability. W/L DID NOT MATTER. Jeff ignored everything and tried to win at all costs. He lost his job because of that.

How are you demanding these things while signing Timmy who plays no defense, Sessions who was old and Jack and Beasley who are both old and play no defense?

No one asks this damn question though.
The front office literally said one thing and moved entirely different. How is that not seen as a red flag?

That’s like saying you’re on a diet at Burger King.

[reub]

KP in Real Madrid: "What is this thing called winning"?

[Jalen Bluntson]

very fair point about giving Jeff the full year.

They gave him the full year. No interference. They also laid out what they were looking to establish in that year. Youth movement. Defense. Accountability. W/L DID NOT MATTER. Jeff ignored everything and tried to win at all costs. He lost his job because of that.

How are you demanding these things while signing Timmy who plays no defense, Sessions who was old and Jack and Beasley who are both old and play no defense?

No one asks this damn question though.
The front office literally said one thing and moved entirely different. How is that not seen as a red flag?

That’s like saying you’re on a diet at Burger King.

Sessions was supposed to be place holder/mentor to Frank. Jack took that job and Sessions was cut for Burke.

Poor defense is not NO defense. If they aren't even trying on defense... ACCOUNTABILITY. Nope. Jeff pulled the kids at the drop of a hat. He allowed the vets free reign. That's on HIM.

[levendis]

very fair point about giving Jeff the full year.

They gave him the full year. No interference. They also laid out what they were looking to establish in that year. Youth movement. Defense. Accountability. W/L DID NOT MATTER. Jeff ignored everything and tried to win at all costs. He lost his job because of that.

How are you demanding these things while signing Timmy who plays no defense, Sessions who was old and Jack and Beasley who are both old and play no defense?

No one asks this damn question though.
The front office literally said one thing and moved entirely different. How is that not seen as a red flag?

That’s like saying you’re on a diet at Burger King.

I don't trust them at all. But I think a big part of this is wanting to appease KP more than anything. Especially when his brother is coming out talking about not coming back. Once he went down they transitioned to that very thing. Signed Troy, called up Trey and Kornet, sat Jack.They have to earn the trust, I get it. Need one off season of not doing anything stupid for once. Hopefully it happens.

[Capn'O]

very fair point about giving Jeff the full year.

They gave him the full year. No interference. They also laid out what they were looking to establish in that year. Youth movement. Defense. Accountability. W/L DID NOT MATTER. Jeff ignored everything and tried to win at all costs. He lost his job because of that.

How are you demanding these things while signing Timmy who plays no defense, Sessions who was old and Jack and Beasley who are both old and play no defense?

No one asks this damn question though.
The front office literally said one thing and moved entirely different. How is that not seen as a red flag?

That’s like saying you’re on a diet at Burger King.

Jack and Sessions were mentors/placeholders. Super easy to bench or reduce the role for when the time comes. Jack wasn't even in the league the year before.

Beasley - maybe there was another forward we could have gotten but another placeholder really. Minimum contract and he didn't even play more than 20 min the previous two seasons.

Hardaway there's no **** excuse for **** **** **** **** **** why did we do that?!

[Dr. Detfink]

C'mon KP...get Luka Doncic to force their hand to work out a trade to the Knicks!

[Triple C]

Welp

[Jalen Bluntson]

Welp

Except there was contact and he did land awkwardly so...

[dakomish23]

Well, there are issues with that approach, and Mills and Perry addressed them in the presser after they fired Jeff.

The prevailing perception coming into last season was that Jeff was forced to run the Triangle, even though that wasn't his preferred offense, and thus we don't know what kind of coach he actually is. There was also the perception that Knick management interferes with the coaches too much as a whole.

Mills and Perry came into last season saying that everyone will get the full year to be evaluated. That went for coaches and players. Jeff didn't defy their instructions. They didn't give him any. They gave him free reign to coach the team as he saw fit, and they would evaluate what kind of coach he was. Obviously, they found him lacking.

Firing Jeff midseason accomplishes nothing. In fact, it was counter-productive for a few reasons:

- They weren't going to get a new coach in the middle of the season.
- Rambis as an interim with clear instructions on who to play shows that the Knick management isn't really an improvement. Especially since he would just be running Jeff's stuff still.
- It shows that Knick management is impatient, and only reinforces that they are meddlesome. That is the exact perception they were looking to dispel when entering the coaching FA market. How can they claim they are looking for a coach to embark on a patient rebuild after that?

If you think losing a few extra games and getting Frank a few more mins outweighs that stuff, that's fine. In an ideal world, I would have liked there to be a mandate to play the young guys as well. There is definitely long term logic to their approach as well though.
Especially if Fiz is the type of coach who does all those things without needing to be told.

very fair point about giving Jeff the full year.

They gave him the full year. No interference. They also laid out what they were looking to establish in that year. Youth movement. Defense. Accountability. W/L DID NOT MATTER. Jeff ignored everything and tried to win at all costs. He lost his job because of that.

If they wanted a youth movement why was Mills fine with Jeff not playing WHG?

[Jalen Bluntson]

very fair point about giving Jeff the full year.

They gave him the full year. No interference. They also laid out what they were looking to establish in that year. Youth movement. Defense. Accountability. W/L DID NOT MATTER. Jeff ignored everything and tried to win at all costs. He lost his job because of that.

If they wanted a youth movement why was Mills fine with Jeff not playing WHG?

What they wanted and what they got were 2 different things. They were not trying to tell Jeff what to do. They let him coach. They set expectations. Jeff did the opposite. He was fired at the airport.

[whocares1]

Welp

There’s zero training that can ensure KP lasts 82 games. Getting stronger will help his game because he gets fatigued when he gets pushed around. He should probably do endurance training, but nothing will prevent an injury like that 100%.