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OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT?

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Who is the GOAT?

Michael Jordan
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LeBron James
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#661 » by El Poochio » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:10 pm

Sark wrote:
1999 wrote:
spree8 wrote:

Quality? I wouldn’t say a 3 point shooting contest with no defense being played is better quality. Maybe more entertaining, but the 90’s was better quality basketball.


Better quality in terms of more balanced teams. Talent level doesn’t even come close to now. Oliver Miller played in the 90s...


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And Enes Kanter plays now. What's your point? Kanter puts up 20/10 with ease, and he has no skill at all.


Lol Kanter would be a perennial All-Star he is incredible back to basket post up player
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#662 » by Sark » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:13 pm

I still can't believe Oliver Miller is brought up to a Knicks fan base that endured Eddy Curry, Carmelo Anthony, and Raymond Felton.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#663 » by Sark » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:16 pm

El Poochio wrote:
Sark wrote:
1999 wrote:
Better quality in terms of more balanced teams. Talent level doesn’t even come close to now. Oliver Miller played in the 90s...


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And Enes Kanter plays now. What's your point? Kanter puts up 20/10 with ease, and he has no skill at all.


Lol Kanter would be a perennial All-Star he is incredible back to basket post up player



Shaq, Olajuwon, Robinson, and Ewing would drop 100 on Kanter.

Heck, Brad Daughtery would give him 80. Smits would be good for 50.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#664 » by Sark » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:27 pm

Best offensive center today

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Best offensive center from 90s

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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#665 » by 1999 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:37 pm

Sark wrote:
1999 wrote:
spree8 wrote:

Quality? I wouldn’t say a 3 point shooting contest with no defense being played is better quality. Maybe more entertaining, but the 90’s was better quality basketball.


Better quality in terms of more balanced teams. Talent level doesn’t even come close to now. Oliver Miller played in the 90s...


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Balanced teams? 1/3 of NBA is tanking, running out G League players. There's like 6 quality rosters in the NBA, if even that. The rest of the NBA is blowout after blowout, with winner determined by who was hot that night.


This is what I meant, the 90s had more balanced teams. The players are more individually skilled now. I don’t think the defense today gets talked about enough. You can’t be a slow, plodding hack and have a place in the league anymore. You have to be versatile, guard multiple positions, just be a basketball player in the truest sense.


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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#666 » by El Poochio » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:45 pm

Sark wrote:Best offensive center today

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Best offensive center from 90s

Image


Jokic is an upgraded version of Divac

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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#667 » by El Poochio » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:46 pm

Sark wrote:
El Poochio wrote:
Sark wrote:
And Enes Kanter plays now. What's your point? Kanter puts up 20/10 with ease, and he has no skill at all.


Lol Kanter would be a perennial All-Star he is incredible back to basket post up player



Shaq, Olajuwon, Robinson, and Ewing would drop 100 on Kanter.

Heck, Brad Daughtery would give him 80. Smits would be good for 50.


6'4 Marcus Smart would lock them all up thats how advanced the game is now
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#668 » by 1999 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:46 pm

David Robinson was an amazing player. But don’t let me post that YouTube video of Barkley hitting him with a WEAK in and out and draining that mid range shot to get the Suns into the finals. That would never fly in today’s league. With all the space David gave to Barkley; AD, KP, KAT, etc etc would’ve just hit a 3 or drove right past him and scored. It’s a different game now. No slow plodders allowed.


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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#669 » by Sark » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:48 pm

El Poochio wrote:
Sark wrote:Best offensive center today

Image



Best offensive center from 90s

Image


Jokic is an upgraded version of Divac

Teenager coming into the 2k18 NBA:

Image



Divac was a scrub. Jokic is modern version of Sabonis, who got killed back then because NBA was too physical. Put Sabonis in the modern NBA, and he'd be destroying teams more than Jokic does.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#670 » by spree8 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:56 pm

Sark wrote:
1999 wrote:
spree8 wrote:

Quality? I wouldn’t say a 3 point shooting contest with no defense being played is better quality. Maybe more entertaining, but the 90’s was better quality basketball.


Better quality in terms of more balanced teams. Talent level doesn’t even come close to now. Oliver Miller played in the 90s...


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Balanced teams? 1/3 of NBA is tanking, running out G League players. There's like 6 quality rosters in the NBA, if even that. The rest of the NBA is blowout after blowout, with winner determined by who was hot that night.



Yea a league that had the likes of..


Magic- Shaq and Penny
Knicks- Ewing, Starks, Oakley, Mason
Pacers- Reggie, Davis Bros
Heat- Zo and Hardaway
Bulls- MJ and Scottie
Pistons- Isiah and Dumars
Cavs- Price and Daughtery

Rockets- Dream and Drexler
Suns- Barkley, KJ and Majerle
Sonics- Payton and Kemp
Lakers- Magic and Worthy
Jazz- Stockton and Malone



Just to name a few off the top of my head. We have literally 2-3 teams now that can play for a title. People may call it slow and boring, but I call it cerebral and hard nosed... even as a kid I appreciated that. Talent level tho, there are more all time great players back then. You can name plenty of scrubs in any era... that doesn’t really say much.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#671 » by Sark » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:56 pm

1999 wrote:David Robinson was an amazing player. But don’t let me post that YouTube video of Barkley hitting him with a WEAK in and out and draining that mid range shot to get the Suns into the finals. That would never fly in today’s league. With all the space David gave to Barkley; AD, KP, KAT, etc etc would’ve just hit a 3 or drove right past him and scored. It’s a different game now. No slow plodders allowed.


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KAT is a fat body plodder. He's one of the worst defenders ever, with the worst footwork I've ever seen.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#672 » by spree8 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:05 pm

1999 wrote:
Sark wrote:
1999 wrote:
Better quality in terms of more balanced teams. Talent level doesn’t even come close to now. Oliver Miller played in the 90s...


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Balanced teams? 1/3 of NBA is tanking, running out G League players. There's like 6 quality rosters in the NBA, if even that. The rest of the NBA is blowout after blowout, with winner determined by who was hot that night.


This is what I meant, the 90s had more balanced teams. The players are more individually skilled now. I don’t think the defense today gets talked about enough. You can’t be a slow, plodding hack and have a place in the league anymore. You have to be versatile, guard multiple positions, just be a basketball player in the truest sense.


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Hakeem, DRob, Ewing, Shaq, Zo, Mutombo, etc, weren’t slow and plodding. You’re crazy if you think they couldn’t play today and dominate the league. The defense today is nonexistent...switch defense is pathetic. You don’t actually have to be able to guard multiple positions... how many players even play defense nowadays? Not many. Versatility? There were plenty of versatile players back then too.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#673 » by nykballa2k4 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:08 pm

Sark wrote:
El Poochio wrote:
Sark wrote:Best offensive center today

Image



Best offensive center from 90s

Image


Jokic is an upgraded version of Divac

Teenager coming into the 2k18 NBA:

Image



Divac was a scrub. Jokic is modern version of Sabonis, who got killed back then because NBA was too physical. Put Sabonis in the modern NBA, and he'd be destroying teams more than Jokic does.


Divac was a scrub compared to his NBA. It would be interesting to see Divac vs Marc Gasol in their respective primes...

It is tough to compare the generations because a guy like Curry wouldn't get as many good shots per game. Jordan, IMO, was better than LeBron because although he did have a very good team, on paper, he did not play on an all-star team the way LeBron did. LeBron won his first 2 rings and attended 4 finals with an all-star team in Miami with 2 other superstars (not just all-stars). The equivalent would be if MJ played with Barkley AND Pippen. By uniting 3 of the 5 best players in the conference, there was no opportunity for competition over those 4 years. In comparison, Jordan shared the east with Pippen, Penny, Hill, Miller, etc. The Heatles were 3 all-star starters. Jordan played with one other all-star (Pippen) who despite being very talented, started in 6 all-star games. Pippen made 5 all-star starting appearances alongside Jordan. This is not a knock on Pippen, but a feather in the cap of Jordan's competition.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#674 » by 1999 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:08 pm

spree8 wrote:
1999 wrote:
Sark wrote:

Balanced teams? 1/3 of NBA is tanking, running out G League players. There's like 6 quality rosters in the NBA, if even that. The rest of the NBA is blowout after blowout, with winner determined by who was hot that night.


This is what I meant, the 90s had more balanced teams. The players are more individually skilled now. I don’t think the defense today gets talked about enough. You can’t be a slow, plodding hack and have a place in the league anymore. You have to be versatile, guard multiple positions, just be a basketball player in the truest sense.


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Hakeem, DRob, Ewing, Shaq, Zo, Mutombo, etc, weren’t slow and plodding. You’re crazy if you think they couldn’t play today and dominate the league. The defense today is nonexistent...switch defense is pathetic. You don’t actually have to be able to guard multiple positions... how many players even play defense nowadays? Not many. Versatility? There were plenty of versatile players back then too.


I wasn’t really talking about those guys per se. Just take no further look at the Oakley’s, Dale Davis’ , Malik Roses, Maurice Taylor’s. All dinosaurs.


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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#675 » by Sark » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:10 pm

The game was slower because they allowed hand checking, and you were actually allowed to play defense. As soon as they got rid of hand checking, Steve Nash won b2b MVP. Derrick Rose even won MVP, because he was allowed to run anywhere he wanted unimpeded. That was never allowed in the 90s. Steph Curry would have a career similar to Mahmoud Abdul Rouf if he played in old rules, and not be in top 20 all time.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#676 » by spree8 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:15 pm

1999 wrote:
spree8 wrote:
1999 wrote:
This is what I meant, the 90s had more balanced teams. The players are more individually skilled now. I don’t think the defense today gets talked about enough. You can’t be a slow, plodding hack and have a place in the league anymore. You have to be versatile, guard multiple positions, just be a basketball player in the truest sense.


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Hakeem, DRob, Ewing, Shaq, Zo, Mutombo, etc, weren’t slow and plodding. You’re crazy if you think they couldn’t play today and dominate the league. The defense today is nonexistent...switch defense is pathetic. You don’t actually have to be able to guard multiple positions... how many players even play defense nowadays? Not many. Versatility? There were plenty of versatile players back then too.


I wasn’t really talking about those guys per se. Just take no further look at the Oakley’s, Dale Davis’ , Malik Roses, Maurice Taylor’s. All dinosaurs.


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Mo Taylor and Malik Rose dude? 4real? There’s no garbage players like that now??? Oakley and Dale Davis would do very well in today’s league btw... defensive beasts who could crash the boards and hit the mid range J? Come on.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#677 » by 1999 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:19 pm

spree8 wrote:
1999 wrote:
spree8 wrote:

Hakeem, DRob, Ewing, Shaq, Zo, Mutombo, etc, weren’t slow and plodding. You’re crazy if you think they couldn’t play today and dominate the league. The defense today is nonexistent...switch defense is pathetic. You don’t actually have to be able to guard multiple positions... how many players even play defense nowadays? Not many. Versatility? There were plenty of versatile players back then too.


I wasn’t really talking about those guys per se. Just take no further look at the Oakley’s, Dale Davis’ , Malik Roses, Maurice Taylor’s. All dinosaurs.


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Mo Taylor and Malik Rose dude? 4real? There’s no garbage players like that now??? Oakley and Dale Davis would do very well in today’s league btw... defensive beasts who could crash the boards and hit the mid range J? Come on.


Before or after they foul out in 30 seconds?


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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#678 » by spree8 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:20 pm

1999 wrote:
spree8 wrote:
1999 wrote:
I wasn’t really talking about those guys per se. Just take no further look at the Oakley’s, Dale Davis’ , Malik Roses, Maurice Taylor’s. All dinosaurs.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app



Mo Taylor and Malik Rose dude? 4real? There’s no garbage players like that now??? Oakley and Dale Davis would do very well in today’s league btw... defensive beasts who could crash the boards and hit the mid range J? Come on.


Before or after they foul out in 30 seconds?


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Weak. They couldn’t adjust? They’re not dumbasses.
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#679 » by El Poochio » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:21 pm

Just put a random game on from 90s next to a random regular season game today and you will see the diff no need to delve into specific players
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Re: OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT? 

Post#680 » by spree8 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:24 pm

El Poochio wrote:Just put a random game on from 90s next to a random regular season game today and you will see the diff no need to delve into specific players



No defense 3 point shooting contest vs slow/methodical offense and hard nosed defense.
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