OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT?

[GONYK]

I don't know, but I think people who say its not even close - are wrong.

Jordan would take Bron’s lunch money and Broney poo would allow it.

Jordan wanted all the smoke. LeBron doesn’t.

That's the main difference.

Not only would Jordan step on your neck, he was always looking for the next neck to step on.

Lebron just isn't built like that.

[DOT]

jordan wouldn't've gotten away with any of his sh*t today with all the social media and sh*t

one snapchat of him punching kerr or using homophobic slurs, and he'd be labeled a team killing cancer within the hour

[Greenie]

jordan wouldn't've gotten away with any of his sh*t today with all the social media and sh*t

one snapchat of him punching kerr or using homophobic slurs, and he'd be labeled a team killing cancer within the hour

True

[Daaaarryyl]

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What??? How is the fact that MJ helped Scottie become as good as he was irrelevant? When you’re saying Lebron with Pippen and Rodman could’ve won easily, it’s totally relevant because when you’re putting Lebron in Michael’s place, so you need to ask yourself if he could do the same for Scottie. And the fact that Kyrie bounced from the team (he didn’t really elevate Kyrie either btw) is a testament to the likelihood that he wouldn’t have.=========================================================================================


-It's irrelevant in the sense that he had a prime HOF player with him one way or another.

Whether it was because he had a great shooting coach or because he had a fantastic weight lifting program or because he had MJ calling a him a bitch or a f^ggot everyday like has been documented, to motivate him.


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You vote Pippen over Wade in his prime? That’s crazy, but of course you’d say that to support your arguement. Check the Player Comparion Board for their top 100 all time and you’ll see Wade like 10 spots ahead of Scottie on the list... and that’s counting longevity which Wade falls short on, but in terms of prime? Wade is even further ahead.
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Not crazy at all. I think it's close. You wouldn't admit that even?


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And uhhh, Jordan may have beaten an older Jazz team, who were so much better than the Mavs or Spurs that Lebron lost to. You def forgot about the difference there.
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OK Got confused before...... So, you're saying then that the Dynasty Spurs and the 74 win Warriors where not as good as the the 90's Jazz and the Seattle Supersonics??

[DOT]

and lebron will always have the blemish of 2011 on his record

if that year doesn't end that way, i don't think there's any discussion of putting him in the same sentence as mj. honestly, that's where a lot of the negative narratives about him come from, and no matter what he does for the rest of his career, people will always remember him losing to the mavs

mj never choked as hard as lebron did in that series. but mj also never had to overcome an opponent nearly as good as the 2016 warriors

[nykfan42]

and lebron will always have the blemish of 2011 on his record

if that year doesn't end that way, i don't think there's any discussion of putting him in the same sentence as mj. honestly, that's where a lot of the negative narratives about him come from, and no matter what he does for the rest of his career, people will always remember him losing to the mavs

mj never choked as hard as lebron did in that series. but mj also never had to overcome an opponent nearly as good as the 2016 warriors

That was pretty pathetic. And I loved it.

[cuyankees]

Oh no not this, hard to compare players from diff eras. Stastically, LBJ will trump MJ, but let’s remember that LBJ has 5 seasons on MJ (3 college and 2 retirement/baseball).

Really have to ask yourself, how many players in this era are considered top 50 all time? Don’t think there are as many that MJ mowed through year after year.

[robillionaire]

MJ.

If Lebron loses in the finals for a 6th time I don’t even want to even hear about it anymore. Stop making the comparison. If he wins we can discuss it further

Jordan couldn't beat this warriors team with this cavs roster so that argument doesn't work

Says you based on no proof, yet MJ was 6-0 in the finals. James harden just took them to 7.

That warriors team only exists because lebron set the precendent for the super team era so I don’t take that excuse.

[draftbarnes]

MJ.

If Lebron loses in the finals for a 6th time I don’t even want to even hear about it anymore. Stop making the comparison. If he wins we can discuss it further

Jordan couldn't beat this warriors team with this cavs roster so that argument doesn't work

Says you based on no proof, yet MJ was 6-0 in the finals. James harden just took them to 7.

That warriors team only exists because lebron set the precendent for the super team era so I don’t take that excuse.

Rockets team is much better than the cavs and he had a cp3 there helping him out . when cp3 got injured harden couldn't lead them.

I know this . Jordan and this cave cast of scrubs isn't beating the warriors. Jordan isn't Superman

[robillionaire]

and lebron will always have the blemish of 2011 on his record

if that year doesn't end that way, i don't think there's any discussion of putting him in the same sentence as mj. honestly, that's where a lot of the negative narratives about him come from, and no matter what he does for the rest of his career, people will always remember him losing to the mavs

mj never choked as hard as lebron did in that series. but mj also never had to overcome an opponent nearly as good as the 2016 warriors

In Lebron’s defense, his superteam did lose that finals but that mavs team also beat a team with Durant harden and Westbrook and also the 2x defending champ kobe lakers in that same playoffs

Dirk was the only all star on his team that season. Impressive when you think about it

That’s why I don’t want to hear that this warriors team is just too good. The goat would find a way

[robillionaire]

Jordan couldn't beat this warriors team with this cavs roster so that argument doesn't work

Says you based on no proof, yet MJ was 6-0 in the finals. James harden just took them to 7.

That warriors team only exists because lebron set the precendent for the super team era so I don’t take that excuse.

Rockets team is much better than the cavs and he had a cp3 there helping him out . when cp3 got injured harden couldn't lead them.

I know this . Jordan and this cave cast of scrubs isn't beating the warriors. Jordan isn't Superman

It’s not Jordan’s fault that Lebron the GM’s hand picked team that he assembled and then blew up mid season sucks

[spree8]

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What??? How is the fact that MJ helped Scottie become as good as he was irrelevant? When you’re saying Lebron with Pippen and Rodman could’ve won easily, it’s totally relevant because when you’re putting Lebron in Michael’s place, so you need to ask yourself if he could do the same for Scottie. And the fact that Kyrie bounced from the team (he didn’t really elevate Kyrie either btw) is a testament to the likelihood that he wouldn’t have.===================================================


-It's irrelevant in the sense that he had a prime HOF player with him one way or another.

Whether it was because he had a great shooting coach or because he had a fantastic weight lifting program or because he had MJ calling a him a bitch or a f^ggot everyday like has been documented, to motivate him.


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You vote Pippen over Wade in his prime? That’s crazy, but of course you’d say that to support your arguement. Check the Player Comparion Board for their top 100 all time and you’ll see Wade like 10 spots ahead of Scottie on the list... and that’s counting longevity which Wade falls short on, but in terms of prime? Wade is even further ahead.==========================


Not crazy at all. I think it's close. You wouldn't admit that even?


======================And uhhh, Jordan may have beaten an older Jazz team, who were so much better than the Mavs or Spurs that Lebron lost to. You def forgot about the difference there.=============


OK Got confused before...... So, you're saying then that the dynasty Spurs and the 74 win Warriors where not as good as the the 90's Jazz and the Seattle Supersonics??

Dude, how you gunna sit there and compare Michael’s direct contribution to Scottie’s development to a shooting coach or weight lifting program? Cmon now, this isn’t rocket science. You wanna swap Lebron and MJ and give Lebron a player MJ helped to mold, then you need to consider if Lebron would’ve had the same affect on him. Any other player, it doesn’t matter, but with Scottie, it counts, cuz that’s MJ helping himself by elevating Scottie’s game.

No Wade-Pippen is not really close. Look at the PC Boards Peak Project Top 50. Wade’s 06’ 09’, 10’, seasons are ranked like top 15 all time... Scottie ain’t even on the list. I agree with that discrepancy.

Dynasty Spurs? Duncan was like 40 and Kawhi wasn’t even Kawhi yet. And I’m talking about Lebron losing to the Mavs and that Spurs squad (should’ve been twice). Not sure what you’re comparing here.


Jordan’s competition:

90’s rules
90’s lack of space

Knicks: Ewing and company (Shaq’s “toughest comp”)
Magic: Shaq, Penny, Grant
Pistons: Isiah, Dumars, Laimbeer, Rodman, etc
Heat: Zo, Tim
Pacers: Reggie, Davis bros
Cavs: Price, Daugherty
Hawks: Dominique

Blazers: Drexler
Suns: Barkley, KJ, Thunder Dan
Sonics: Payton, Kemp
Jazz: Stockton, Malone
Lakers: Magic, Worthy



Lebrons competition:


Thunder: 3rd year KD & WB (lockout year)
Spurs: 40 year old Duncan (should’ve lost)
Warriors: Draymond suspended


Celtics: KG, Pierce, Allen (finally won when they got old)

Mavs: lost to Dirk and an old supporting cast when he had Wade and Bosh.

Spurs: lost before Kawhi was even a superstar.


Rest of his competition has been garbage in the East. Almost beat by the young Pacers and Celts this year. 3-5 in the Finals, bout to be 3-6, etc, etc, etc.


Michael beat all those legendary teams in the playoffs (Pistons used to win until Phil took the reigns)... Lebron, pretty weak comp that he lost to and won against, and when he did win, it was pretty unimpressive/lucky.

[DOT]

and lebron will always have the blemish of 2011 on his record

if that year doesn't end that way, i don't think there's any discussion of putting him in the same sentence as mj. honestly, that's where a lot of the negative narratives about him come from, and no matter what he does for the rest of his career, people will always remember him losing to the mavs

mj never choked as hard as lebron did in that series. but mj also never had to overcome an opponent nearly as good as the 2016 warriors

In Lebron’s defense, his superteam did lose that finals but that mavs team also beat a team with Durant harden and Westbrook and also the 2x defending champ kobe lakers in that same playoffs

Dirk was the only all star on his team that season. Impressive when you think about it

That’s why I don’t want to hear that this warriors team is just too good. The goat would find a way

i mean, yeah dirk was amazing that entire playoffs, and the mavs role players were very good, but all lebron had to do was play at the level he was at all year, and the heat would've won

and i think saying "the goat would find a way" is a bit reductive

like, outside of the raptors series, only one player on the cavs is averaging over 10 ppg in the playoffs, and that's kevin love. and it's not like he's even playing good, he averaged 11 per game against the pacers, and 12.5 per game against the celtics

i know it's not just about offensive numbers, and the cavs have been playing much better team defense in the playoffs, but if you're gonna be a true contender, you need both offense and defense, unless you're the 04 pistons. and right now, nobody on the cavs outside of lebron is giving you any kind of consistent offense, and on defense they're just above average at best.

basketball is a team game. mj wouldn't've beaten the lakers in 01 if you put him in his prime on the 6ers, and there's a good chance he would've lost to the rockets had he not gone into retirement. hell, he did lose in 95 against the magic, and i don't hold it against him, he played great that series, his team just wasn't good enough

[CowboyBebop]

Lebron is not even in the discussion People are crazy.

[HEZI]

This debate will always come down to personal opinion but man Jordan made the game look so cool. From the bubble gum chewing, to the sneakers, to his demeanor, even the way he just moved around the court, MJ was just the coolest dude in the entire sport. That's why so many wanted to be like him, it wasn't just because he was so good.

As far as his game goes, sorry but I think Lebron's jumper is ugly. I felt like that since the moment he entered the league. MJ though? Man that jumper was smooth as silk



His ball handles was so clean and his layups and dunks were works of art. This is the same dude that would smoke victory cigars BEFORE a game, walk into opponent locker rooms and ask them who was guarding him that night, trash talk guys during a game and embarrass them. MJ was just on another level, at least in my opinion.

[Capn'O]

LeBron is the best talent. I do give MJ the edge because of his killer instinct and he was a more skilled scorer. Lebron does check a few important boxes over him but not enough, imo.

[blue and orange]

MJ is the GOAT NBA player, Lebron is the greatest basketball player I have ever seen. I can never put anyone ahead of MJ after the way he ripped out the heart of the Knicks again and again, however Lebron is definitely in the conversation. I have gotten to the point where I just find it absolutely ridiculous to get into the Lebron-MJ comparisons, its gonna be a long time before we see another Lebron, so I say enjoy it while you can watching youtube videos isn't the same as being in the moment.

[blue and orange]

Bulls record the year MJ played baseball was 55-27, Lebron left Cleveland they are a lottery team, Lebron left Miami they sucked a semi lottery team and that team had Wade and Bosh still. Lebron won with a 2 young unproven coaches, MJ won with Phil, MJ never won a playoff series without Pippen.

[Marty McFly]

Lebron isn't Oakley, and Oak would have tested Lebron plenty.

lebron would've dunked on oakley every single time, and oakley wouldn't do anything about it other than trying to start a fight because he got his manhood card revoked.

Oakley wouldn't have done **** cause lebron is his boy.

Read on Twitter

not that i agree but that's coming from one of michael's closest friends.

Read on Twitter

[Jesus Juice]

lebron going to have all time stats at the end of it all, those are going to live for a long time. Most of my dislike for his legacy stems from the way he has gone about it. Can’t blame him for holding the teams he plays for accountable and pushing ownership to put players around him, but still has an out if those decisions don’t work out (you know they aren’t being made without his blessing). Dude has played in the east, walked to the finals most years, makes personal and coaching decisions, and has 8-10 trips to the finals with 3 finals wins?? He can’t get credit for the wins without holding the Ls with the loaded deck he has had, and all the managerial involvement he has.