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Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap

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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#421 » by god shammgod » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:52 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:You'd think the Knicks and their fans would have learned about throwing max money and years at guys with a pretty pronounced injury history, but maybe not.


so we letting kp walk then ?
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#422 » by god shammgod » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:57 pm

it's just not close to realistic to think you can bargain with him. if you want him, it's the max. you know that before you talk to him, injury history and all.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#423 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:39 pm

god shammgod wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:You'd think the Knicks and their fans would have learned about throwing max money and years at guys with a pretty pronounced injury history, but maybe not.


so we letting kp walk then ?


It would be worth considering, honestly.

It'll really be worth considering when he tears his ACL again because he insists on working out with Celebrity Mook Trainer
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#424 » by Thugger HBC » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:02 pm

god shammgod wrote:it's just not close to realistic to think you can bargain with him. if you want him, it's the max. you know that before you talk to him, injury history and all.

That should be a given honestly. Just don't trade for him because that will cost assets. cap space is valuable as well, but I could live with the acquisition if only cap space was used.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#425 » by Newyorknick94 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:43 am

cuyankees wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:And Burke can certainly get to Kembas level he’s not there now but Kemba isn’t on the same level as kyrie/Westbrook/curry he’s more like dragic/Isiah Thomas

Kemba Walker or Trey Burke?

Phew, that is def a tough one...

Pass the pipe please

Kemba walker 12mill per
Trey Burke 1mill per
Kemba is about to make over 25 mill per year Isiah is that you?
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#426 » by Newyorknick94 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 am

E-Balla wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Exactly. Kemba wins games. Put Kemba on the Knicks last year and we definitely make the playoffs. People dont realize how little talent Charlotte has offensively.

Kemba doesn’t win games that’s the problem he’s better than anything we got yea but I don’t want Kemba if I’m trying to build a winning team idc he hit a game winner in college or that sometimes he can score a lot of points he’s inconsistent and a terrible defender that doesn’t lead his teams to wins

People that obviously don't know basketball always got strong opinions around here.

What’s your argument? Kemba is not a star player he’s not better than kyrie he’s never led his team to wins and he’s due for a max contract he’s not good enough to be the best player in a championship team or the second best why do you want to waste money on someone like that? That’s how we got in this mess we’re in right now by giving out contracts/trading for players that aren’t worth what we’re guving them/giving up to get them. You’d honestly rather him over Kyrie? Give me your opinion instead of bolding some of my post and acting like you know more about basketball than everyone.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#427 » by bondom34 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:57 am

Kemba is much better than Kyrie. Fancy dribbling doesn't count for points.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#428 » by Newyorknick94 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:01 am

bondom34 wrote:Kemba is much better than Kyrie. Fancy dribbling doesn't count for points.

Kemba is literally a smaller kyrie with less handles and a jumper that’s not as good.... and kyrie averages more points with his fancy dribbling
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#429 » by bondom34 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:03 am

Newyorknick94 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Kemba is much better than Kyrie. Fancy dribbling doesn't count for points.

Kemba is literally a smaller kyrie with less handles and a jumper that’s not as good.... and kyrie averages more points with his fancy dribbling

And if players were only rated on how many PPG they scored that would matter, but they're not. Charlotte was better offensively with Kemba on court than Boston with Kyrie Charlotte also has no other talent Kemba has that effect on a team, Kyrie doesn't. Kemba's the better team player, better at getting looks for teammates, better defender, better everything except scoring.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#430 » by Newyorknick94 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 am

bondom34 wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Kemba is much better than Kyrie. Fancy dribbling doesn't count for points.

Kemba is literally a smaller kyrie with less handles and a jumper that’s not as good.... and kyrie averages more points with his fancy dribbling

And if players were only rated on how many PPG they scored that would matter, but they're not. Charlotte was better offensively with Kemba on court than Boston with Kyrie Charlotte also has no other talent Kemba has that effect on a team, Kyrie doesn't. Kemba's the better team player, better at getting looks for teammates, better defender, better everything except scoring.

Your the one that mention stats saying he fancy dribbling doesn’t count for points I was just saying his still averages more points than Kemba how exactly is Kemba a better team player than kyrie/ better at getting looks for teammates your just saying that it’s a wash neither are premier playmakers. Can you show me stats saying Kemba is a better defender for real or your basing that off an eye test? Boston is stacked of course there better with kyrie on the court they just have a good enough team to not suck without him.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#431 » by bondom34 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:12 am

Newyorknick94 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:Kemba is literally a smaller kyrie with less handles and a jumper that’s not as good.... and kyrie averages more points with his fancy dribbling

And if players were only rated on how many PPG they scored that would matter, but they're not. Charlotte was better offensively with Kemba on court than Boston with Kyrie Charlotte also has no other talent Kemba has that effect on a team, Kyrie doesn't. Kemba's the better team player, better at getting looks for teammates, better defender, better everything except scoring.

Your the one that mention stats saying his fancy dribbling doesn’t count for points I was just saying his still averages more points than Kemba how exactly is Kemba a better team player than kyrie/ better at getting looks for teammates your just saying that it’s a wash neither are premier playmakers. Can you show me stats saying Kemba is a better defender for real or your basing that off an eye test?

First:

http://bkref.com/tiny/HWe0h

Kemba scores 2 ppg less, on 1 less shot. More assists, fewer TO, and when he was on the court Charlotte's offense was better than Boston's when Kyrie was on court. I honestly can't tell you who Charlotte's 2nd best player even is.

As for defense, RPM has him significantly ahead:
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

As it does on offense. Same for RAPM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSzp3G5rwP9xgCgluVGmR3Qj4-BMoGSYiuTKM6o_pzES6s95oQE1nQvB2CXed-4fRc_MMGgpULtDaJ_/pubhtml?gid=1825430955&single=true

Kyrie gets a lot of attention because he's flashier and plays for Boston. Playing in Charlotte and people don't realize Kemba is really really good, and looking at it objectively from every measure better than Kyrie.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#432 » by cuyankees » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:13 am

Newyorknick94 wrote:
cuyankees wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:And Burke can certainly get to Kembas level he’s not there now but Kemba isn’t on the same level as kyrie/Westbrook/curry he’s more like dragic/Isiah Thomas

Kemba Walker or Trey Burke?

Phew, that is def a tough one...

Pass the pipe please

Kemba walker 12mill per
Trey Burke 1mill per
Kemba is about to make over 25 mill per year Isiah is that you?

Yeah that makes sense...

So it's Trey Burke > Kemba > Kyrie? Just want to confirm I'm reading this logic correctly.

KP is due for a similar salary soon and we have Kornet. He makes peanuts, let me guess Kornet > KP too?

In midtown east so if you're local lmk bc want a hit/swig of whatever you're smoking/drinking.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#433 » by Newyorknick94 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:16 am

cuyankees wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:
cuyankees wrote:Kemba Walker or Trey Burke?

Phew, that is def a tough one...

Pass the pipe please

Kemba walker 12mill per
Trey Burke 1mill per
Kemba is about to make over 25 mill per year Isiah is that you?

Yeah that makes sense.

KP is due for a similar salary soon and we have Kornet. He makes peanuts, let me guess Kornet > KP too?

In midtown east so if you're local lmk bc want a hit/swig of whatever you're smoking/drinking.

Kp/Kemba/hardaway and we’re maxed out your cool with that? You wanna go to war with that squad fr? Also kp is way better than Kemba that was an awful example.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#434 » by Newyorknick94 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:23 am

bondom34 wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:And if players were only rated on how many PPG they scored that would matter, but they're not. Charlotte was better offensively with Kemba on court than Boston with Kyrie Charlotte also has no other talent Kemba has that effect on a team, Kyrie doesn't. Kemba's the better team player, better at getting looks for teammates, better defender, better everything except scoring.

Your the one that mention stats saying his fancy dribbling doesn’t count for points I was just saying his still averages more points than Kemba how exactly is Kemba a better team player than kyrie/ better at getting looks for teammates your just saying that it’s a wash neither are premier playmakers. Can you show me stats saying Kemba is a better defender for real or your basing that off an eye test?

First:

http://bkref.com/tiny/HWe0h

Kemba scores 2 ppg less, on 1 less shot. More assists, fewer TO, and when he was on the court Charlotte's offense was better than Boston's when Kyrie was on court. I honestly can't tell you who Charlotte's 2nd best player even is.

As for defense, RPM has him significantly ahead:
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

As it does on offense. Same for RAPM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSzp3G5rwP9xgCgluVGmR3Qj4-BMoGSYiuTKM6o_pzES6s95oQE1nQvB2CXed-4fRc_MMGgpULtDaJ_/pubhtml?gid=1825430955&single=true

Kyrie gets a lot of attention because he's flashier and plays for Boston. Playing in Charlotte and people don't realize Kemba is really really good, and looking at it objectively from every measure better than Kyrie.

Offensively it’s too close to even favor either kyrie is a little more efficient in every category kemba had a little edge in assists but career wise kyrie dies. Rpm favors Kemba but Kemba is on a significantly worse team I would expect his rpm to atleast be a little better is his drpm better as well? Every time I watch Charlotte Kemba seems to have a hard time defensively maybe just against bigger guards. But he’s so small everyone is bigger than him also I hate how inconsistent he is.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#435 » by bondom34 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:25 am

Newyorknick94 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:Your the one that mention stats saying his fancy dribbling doesn’t count for points I was just saying his still averages more points than Kemba how exactly is Kemba a better team player than kyrie/ better at getting looks for teammates your just saying that it’s a wash neither are premier playmakers. Can you show me stats saying Kemba is a better defender for real or your basing that off an eye test?

First:

http://bkref.com/tiny/HWe0h

Kemba scores 2 ppg less, on 1 less shot. More assists, fewer TO, and when he was on the court Charlotte's offense was better than Boston's when Kyrie was on court. I honestly can't tell you who Charlotte's 2nd best player even is.

As for defense, RPM has him significantly ahead:
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

As it does on offense. Same for RAPM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSzp3G5rwP9xgCgluVGmR3Qj4-BMoGSYiuTKM6o_pzES6s95oQE1nQvB2CXed-4fRc_MMGgpULtDaJ_/pubhtml?gid=1825430955&single=true

Kyrie gets a lot of attention because he's flashier and plays for Boston. Playing in Charlotte and people don't realize Kemba is really really good, and looking at it objectively from every measure better than Kyrie.

Offensively it’s too close to even favor either kyrie is a little more efficient in every category kemba had a little edge in assists but career wise kyrie dies. Rpm favors Kemba but Kemba is on a significantly worse team I would expect his rpm to atleast be a little better is his drpm better as well? Every time I watch Charlotte Kemba seems to have a hard time defensively maybe just against bigger guards. But he’s so small everyone is bigger than him also I hate how inconsistent he is.

RPM wouldn't favor a guy on a bad team, at all.

And Kyrie's edge in assists was probably bumped a bit by playing next to possibly the best player ever. He's never had the defense focus on him like Kemba has, Kyrie's had a great luxury there and when he hasn't has struggled to lead good offenses.

Kemba was better in DRPM as well, and by a really big margin.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#436 » by Newyorknick94 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:49 am

bondom34 wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:First:

http://bkref.com/tiny/HWe0h

Kemba scores 2 ppg less, on 1 less shot. More assists, fewer TO, and when he was on the court Charlotte's offense was better than Boston's when Kyrie was on court. I honestly can't tell you who Charlotte's 2nd best player even is.

As for defense, RPM has him significantly ahead:
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

As it does on offense. Same for RAPM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSzp3G5rwP9xgCgluVGmR3Qj4-BMoGSYiuTKM6o_pzES6s95oQE1nQvB2CXed-4fRc_MMGgpULtDaJ_/pubhtml?gid=1825430955&single=true

Kyrie gets a lot of attention because he's flashier and plays for Boston. Playing in Charlotte and people don't realize Kemba is really really good, and looking at it objectively from every measure better than Kyrie.

Offensively it’s too close to even favor either kyrie is a little more efficient in every category kemba had a little edge in assists but career wise kyrie dies. Rpm favors Kemba but Kemba is on a significantly worse team I would expect his rpm to atleast be a little better is his drpm better as well? Every time I watch Charlotte Kemba seems to have a hard time defensively maybe just against bigger guards. But he’s so small everyone is bigger than him also I hate how inconsistent he is.

RPM wouldn't favor a guy on a bad team, at all.

And Kyrie's edge in assists was probably bumped a bit by playing next to possibly the best player ever. He's never had the defense focus on him like Kemba has, Kyrie's had a great luxury there and when he hasn't has struggled to lead good offenses.

Kemba was better in DRPM as well, and by a really big margin.

How isn’t rpm better for a good player on a bad team would the players plus minus look good if every time he comes back in the game his team plays better for example if Charlotte is down 10 and Kemba comes in and cuts the lead to 2 his plus minus would be 8 right? Or I’m off?

(RPM) tells you how much better a team played on offense and defense when a given player was on the floor, and how much that improvement was that individual player's doing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/just-what-the-hell-is-real-plus-minus-espns-new-nba-s-1560361469/amp

Kyrie was what 22 when Lebron came he was still a kid not many 22 year olds can lead the offense the cavs had pre Lebron/love lol
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#437 » by bondom34 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:55 am

Newyorknick94 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:Offensively it’s too close to even favor either kyrie is a little more efficient in every category kemba had a little edge in assists but career wise kyrie dies. Rpm favors Kemba but Kemba is on a significantly worse team I would expect his rpm to atleast be a little better is his drpm better as well? Every time I watch Charlotte Kemba seems to have a hard time defensively maybe just against bigger guards. But he’s so small everyone is bigger than him also I hate how inconsistent he is.

RPM wouldn't favor a guy on a bad team, at all.

And Kyrie's edge in assists was probably bumped a bit by playing next to possibly the best player ever. He's never had the defense focus on him like Kemba has, Kyrie's had a great luxury there and when he hasn't has struggled to lead good offenses.

Kemba was better in DRPM as well, and by a really big margin.

How isn’t rpm better for a good player on a bad team would the players plus minus look good if every time he comes back in the game his team plays better for example if Charlotte is down 10 and Kemba comes in and cuts the lead to 2 his plus minus would be 8 right? Or I’m off?

(RPM) tells you how much better a team played on offense and defense when a given player was on the floor, and how much that improvement was that individual player's doing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/just-what-the-hell-is-real-plus-minus-espns-new-nba-s-1560361469/amp

Kyrie was what 22 when Lebron came he was still a kid not many 22 year olds can lead the offense the cavs had pre Lebron/love lol

RPM adjusts for teammates on the court while you're on it. It's why good players on bad teams aren't at the top of all the positions.

Also, I wasn't speaking to Kyrie pre Lebron, I was saying it's easier to get assists with Lebron there.

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

RPM isn't just on/off, you're a bit off there, I have more stuff on RAPM and APM if you'd like too. But pretty much everything objectively speaking points to Kemba being better at a team level in boosting teams.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#438 » by Juco24 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:25 am

bondom34 wrote:Kemba is much better than Kyrie. Fancy dribbling doesn't count for points.

:o :o :lol: :lol:
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#439 » by bondom34 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:28 am

Juco24 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Kemba is much better than Kyrie. Fancy dribbling doesn't count for points.

:o :o :lol: :lol:

Now that's in depth analysis.


He is.


But to Newyorkknick94, thanks for the intelligent conversation. Greatly appreciated :D.
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Re: Boston celtics are concerned that kyrie irving will sign with the knicks in 2019 per realgm wiretap 

Post#440 » by Newyorknick94 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:35 am

cuyankees wrote:
Newyorknick94 wrote:
cuyankees wrote:Kemba Walker or Trey Burke?

Phew, that is def a tough one...

Pass the pipe please

Kemba walker 12mill per
Trey Burke 1mill per
Kemba is about to make over 25 mill per year Isiah is that you?

Yeah that makes sense...

So it's Trey Burke > Kemba > Kyrie? Just want to confirm I'm reading this logic correctly.

KP is due for a similar salary soon and we have Kornet. He makes peanuts, let me guess Kornet > KP too?

In midtown east so if you're local lmk bc want a hit/swig of whatever you're smoking/drinking.

When did I say Burke was better than Kemba? All I’m saying is Burke has the potential to get to his level Why waste money or assets on Kemba while we’re rebuilding?
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