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Official Knicks Offseason Thread

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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1841 » by j4remi » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:20 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:i think the point is that they can wait to stretch him until they KNOW they need to. they could get all the way to next offseason and get a feel for who wants to do what, then stretch noah.

or... trade his expiring.


This is exactly where my head is at on the issue. No need to rush to waive him because the cap space isn't needed until next year which buys time to keep looking. I wouldn't hate the move if it was coupled with something but in a vacuum, it's hard to see why they're doing it so quickly or why the info would leak (unless the theory that they're trying to get GM's to make final offers is legit).
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1842 » by 2010 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:21 pm

K P 6 wrote:The Knicks not using the bi-annual exception shows more subtle financial sense

Another shrewd move from Scott Perry and Steve Mills to prep for 2019 free agency.

What I’m specifically getting at is that Pills has not used the bi-annual exception (BAE) to this point in the offseason, and with the roster almost at capacity after a mostly-tame first month of free agency, it seems like the Knicks will just sit on that exception and not use it this year.

Unlike the non-taxpayer mid-level exception (used to sign Mario Hezonja and Mitchell Robinson), the BAE does not expire, so to speak


The BAE allows a team to go over the salary cap (but not the luxury tax apron) to sign a player to a contract up to two years in length
This year, the exception is worth $3.382 million, and will be worth incrementally more or less depending on the salary cap any given year
Most importantly, a team cannot use the BAE two years in a row (the bi-annual part of the equation)


So what does this all mean? Well, basically, if Pills and the Knicks become big free agency players next year, the BAE would give them just a little bit of extra financial wiggle room after the big dominos fall. And make no mistake, they plan on being players in free agency next season.



So, by saving the BAE, the Knicks have given themselves the possibility of having two exceptions next offseason — the non-taxpayer mid-level exception (again, the roughly $8.5-million chunk of change that the team used to sign Hezonja and Robinson this summer, which is available annually to teams over the salary cap but under the luxury tax threshold), and the BAE, potentially giving the team another $12 million to use over the salary cap to sign supplementary players to put around Porzingis, Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox and [Max contract star(s) TBD].


We putting in work


As I suspected, the info in this P&T article is wrong.

Since we are projected to have cap room to sign a max free agent if all things fall as expected, WE WOULD NOT be eligible for the "Non-Taxpayer MLE"

Mid-Level Exception (or MLE): The value of the MLE increases from season to season, for up to four years maximum. A team may use the MLE as long as they have not used any cap-space to sign a player or complete a trade (e.g., as long as they have used matching salaries in all trades), and will not exceed the luxury tax apron (see below). If the team using the MLE had a hard cap above the tax apron, then that team's hard cap for the season is capped at the luxury tax apron, and cannot be raised beyond that until after the following season.


Instead, we'd be eligible for the smaller "Room Exception"

Room Exception: The value of the Room Exception varies from season to season; for up to 2 seasons. The room exception is for any team that has used cap space to absorb contracts via trade (e.g., has taken back more than 125% of what they sent out in salary) or to sign a free agent via cap room.


However, we would still qualify for use of the "Bi-Annual Exception"

Bi-Annual Exception (or BAE): The value of the Bi-Annual Exception varies from season to season, for up to 2 years maximum. The Bi-Annual Exception is for any team that is currently below and will remain below the luxury tax apron. (Thus, the team is hard-capped at and cannot exceed the apron). It cannot be used in consecutive years, but may be used as a pool of money used on multiple free agents. The BAE is not available to teams who have or will use the Room Exception or the TPE.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1843 » by 2010 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:28 pm

HEZI wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
K P 6 wrote:The Knicks not using the bi-annual exception shows more subtle financial sense











We putting in work


https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/8/9/17640052/the-knicks-not-using-the-bi-annual-exception-shows-more-subtle-financial-sense

beat me to it. but i agree. this is wise maneuvering. for me the $6.5m hit is worth being in position to assemble KP and co. a proper army next season.


This is good to know because I sure was thinking about our chances at resigning the guys on 1 year deals if they played really well and looked like they deserved to be back with the team, guys like Kanter, Burke, Hezonja and even Vonleh. So it looks like we should be able to add a max cat , resign KP and still have enough money to bring back at least a couple of those guys if things work out.


Burke will be easy to retain if we want him back. He does not need to have his cap rights renounced.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1844 » by HEZI » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:30 pm

2010 wrote:
K P 6 wrote:The Knicks not using the bi-annual exception shows more subtle financial sense

Another shrewd move from Scott Perry and Steve Mills to prep for 2019 free agency.

What I’m specifically getting at is that Pills has not used the bi-annual exception (BAE) to this point in the offseason, and with the roster almost at capacity after a mostly-tame first month of free agency, it seems like the Knicks will just sit on that exception and not use it this year.

Unlike the non-taxpayer mid-level exception (used to sign Mario Hezonja and Mitchell Robinson), the BAE does not expire, so to speak


The BAE allows a team to go over the salary cap (but not the luxury tax apron) to sign a player to a contract up to two years in length
This year, the exception is worth $3.382 million, and will be worth incrementally more or less depending on the salary cap any given year
Most importantly, a team cannot use the BAE two years in a row (the bi-annual part of the equation)


So what does this all mean? Well, basically, if Pills and the Knicks become big free agency players next year, the BAE would give them just a little bit of extra financial wiggle room after the big dominos fall. And make no mistake, they plan on being players in free agency next season.



So, by saving the BAE, the Knicks have given themselves the possibility of having two exceptions next offseason — the non-taxpayer mid-level exception (again, the roughly $8.5-million chunk of change that the team used to sign Hezonja and Robinson this summer, which is available annually to teams over the salary cap but under the luxury tax threshold), and the BAE, potentially giving the team another $12 million to use over the salary cap to sign supplementary players to put around Porzingis, Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox and [Max contract star(s) TBD].


We putting in work


As I suspected, the info in this P&T article is wrong.

Since we are projected to have cap room to sign a max free agent if all things fall as expected, WE WOULD NOT be eligible for the "Non-Taxpayer MLE"

Mid-Level Exception (or MLE): The value of the MLE increases from season to season, for up to four years maximum. A team may use the MLE as long as they have not used any cap-space to sign a player or complete a trade (e.g., as long as they have used matching salaries in all trades), and will not exceed the luxury tax apron (see below). If the team using the MLE had a hard cap above the tax apron, then that team's hard cap for the season is capped at the luxury tax apron, and cannot be raised beyond that until after the following season.


Instead, we'd be eligible for the smaller "Room Exception"

Room Exception: The value of the Room Exception varies from season to season; for up to 2 seasons. The room exception is for any team that has used cap space to absorb contracts via trade (e.g., has taken back more than 125% of what they sent out in salary) or to sign a free agent via cap room.


However, we would still qualify for use of the "Bi-Annual Exception"

Bi-Annual Exception (or BAE): The value of the Bi-Annual Exception varies from season to season, for up to 2 years maximum. The Bi-Annual Exception is for any team that is currently below and will remain below the luxury tax apron. (Thus, the team is hard-capped at and cannot exceed the apron). It cannot be used in consecutive years, but may be used as a pool of money used on multiple free agents. The BAE is not available to teams who have or will use the Room Exception or the TPE.


So we wouldn't be looking at 12 Mil in total when both exceptions are combined but rather somewhere in the 8 Mil range

Projected Room Exception for 2019-2020 season: $4.6 Mil
Projected BAE for 2019-2020 season : $3.5 Mil
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1845 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:31 pm

Most teams seem to be going in on 2019. Another strategy is to go the opposite way and take some bad contracts that expire in 2020 if we can get some assets. Let Noah/Lee expire as well and we could have $50-$60mil in cap room in '20.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1846 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:31 pm

j4remi wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:i think the point is that they can wait to stretch him until they KNOW they need to. they could get all the way to next offseason and get a feel for who wants to do what, then stretch noah.

or... trade his expiring.


This is exactly where my head is at on the issue. No need to rush to waive him because the cap space isn't needed until next year which buys time to keep looking. I wouldn't hate the move if it was coupled with something but in a vacuum, it's hard to see why they're doing it so quickly or why the info would leak (unless the theory that they're trying to get GM's to make final offers is legit).


it has to be noah. nothing else makes sense.

dude going butt ass in the street. dude throwed.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1847 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:32 pm

2010 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/8/9/17640052/the-knicks-not-using-the-bi-annual-exception-shows-more-subtle-financial-sense

beat me to it. but i agree. this is wise maneuvering. for me the $6.5m hit is worth being in position to assemble KP and co. a proper army next season.


This is good to know because I sure was thinking about our chances at resigning the guys on 1 year deals if they played really well and looked like they deserved to be back with the team, guys like Kanter, Burke, Hezonja and even Vonleh. So it looks like we should be able to add a max cat , resign KP and still have enough money to bring back at least a couple of those guys if things work out.


Burke will be easy to retain if we want him back. He does not need to have his cap rights renounced.


and if he earns more money with his play, we have a few options for how to give it to him.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1848 » by HEZI » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:41 pm

2010 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/8/9/17640052/the-knicks-not-using-the-bi-annual-exception-shows-more-subtle-financial-sense

beat me to it. but i agree. this is wise maneuvering. for me the $6.5m hit is worth being in position to assemble KP and co. a proper army next season.


This is good to know because I sure was thinking about our chances at resigning the guys on 1 year deals if they played really well and looked like they deserved to be back with the team, guys like Kanter, Burke, Hezonja and even Vonleh. So it looks like we should be able to add a max cat , resign KP and still have enough money to bring back at least a couple of those guys if things work out.


Burke will be easy to retain if we want him back. He does not need to have his cap rights renounced.


Would that be wise to do though since we are so tight on cap space? His cap hold will be somewhere around $2.5 Mil and when factoring in Max Cat money that could be a big deal. Might be better to renounce him and then use one of the exceptions to bring him back.

Now if we can dump Lee for an expiring then it would make things a lot easier, if I understand it correctly
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1849 » by 2010 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:57 pm

HEZI wrote:
2010 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
This is good to know because I sure was thinking about our chances at resigning the guys on 1 year deals if they played really well and looked like they deserved to be back with the team, guys like Kanter, Burke, Hezonja and even Vonleh. So it looks like we should be able to add a max cat , resign KP and still have enough money to bring back at least a couple of those guys if things work out.


Burke will be easy to retain if we want him back. He does not need to have his cap rights renounced.


Would that be wise to do though since we are so tight on cap space? His cap hold will be somewhere around $2.5 Mil and when factoring in Max Cat money that could be a big deal. Might be better to renounce him and then use one of the exceptions to bring him back.

Now if we can dump Lee for an expiring then it would make things a lot easier, if I understand it correctly


The issue is if we renounce Burke we lose his Bird rights. Other teams with cap space able to pay him more than our exceptions.

But yeah, ideally if we can stretch Noah and then find a taker for Lee without taking back any guaranteed salary we'd be in good enough shape not to have to renounce Burke.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1850 » by K-DOT » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:09 pm

2010 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
2010 wrote:
Burke will be easy to retain if we want him back. He does not need to have his cap rights renounced.


Would that be wise to do though since we are so tight on cap space? His cap hold will be somewhere around $2.5 Mil and when factoring in Max Cat money that could be a big deal. Might be better to renounce him and then use one of the exceptions to bring him back.

Now if we can dump Lee for an expiring then it would make things a lot easier, if I understand it correctly


The issue is if we renounce Burke we lose his Bird rights. Other teams with cap space able to pay him more than our exceptions.

But yeah, ideally if we can stretch Noah and then find a taker for Lee without taking back any guaranteed salary we'd be in good enough shape not to have to renounce Burke.
We don't have full Bird rights on him though, so we can only offer him up to 4 years 40 I think, don't have the exact numbers right now, to sign him and go over the cap. If he wants more than that, we'd need to use cap space

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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1851 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:14 pm

Somebody kidnap Kosmo and make them post again
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1852 » by cgf » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:21 pm

We won’t have the full non-Taxpayer MLE. Because we’ll drop under the cap to make any signings we’ll only have access to the room MLE.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1853 » by cgf » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:26 pm

K-DOT wrote:
2010 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Would that be wise to do though since we are so tight on cap space? His cap hold will be somewhere around $2.5 Mil and when factoring in Max Cat money that could be a big deal. Might be better to renounce him and then use one of the exceptions to bring him back.

Now if we can dump Lee for an expiring then it would make things a lot easier, if I understand it correctly


The issue is if we renounce Burke we lose his Bird rights. Other teams with cap space able to pay him more than our exceptions.

But yeah, ideally if we can stretch Noah and then find a taker for Lee without taking back any guaranteed salary we'd be in good enough shape not to have to renounce Burke.
We don't have full Bird rights on him though, so we can only offer him up to 4 years 40 I think, don't have the exact numbers right now, to sign him and go over the cap. If he wants more than that, we'd need to use cap space

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Burke would have to win MIP for his early bird rights to not be enough to bring him back. And if he’s playing that well we’ll be able to sucker a team like Orlando into giving us a pick for him.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1854 » by HEZI » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:42 pm

2010 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
2010 wrote:
Burke will be easy to retain if we want him back. He does not need to have his cap rights renounced.


Would that be wise to do though since we are so tight on cap space? His cap hold will be somewhere around $2.5 Mil and when factoring in Max Cat money that could be a big deal. Might be better to renounce him and then use one of the exceptions to bring him back.

Now if we can dump Lee for an expiring then it would make things a lot easier, if I understand it correctly


The issue is if we renounce Burke we lose his Bird rights. Other teams with cap space able to pay him more than our exceptions.

But yeah, ideally if we can stretch Noah and then find a taker for Lee without taking back any guaranteed salary we'd be in good enough shape not to have to renounce Burke.


Yeah there are some risks with both decisions but I think ultimately the goal is to land a Max Cat and preserving as much money as possible should be the main goal. Now if Burke has a monster year and looks like a borderline All Star then we'd have some things to really think about and consider but for now I'd stick to the Max Cat plan and see if we can land a guy like Kyrie. If we can't, then we will still have the cap space to bring back Burke and since there will be some marquee names next year I doubt too much money will be offered to the lesser players until the big name dominos start to fall first so I wouldn't worry too much about losing out on Burke while we wait to hear from our main targets.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1855 » by taj2133 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:55 pm

Knicks will host Trae Young and the Hawks to open season
The David Fizdale Era will open with a winnable game against Trae Young, The Post has learned.

In their first season opener at home since 2014, the Knicks will play host to the Hawks on Oct. 17 at the Garden.
The entire Knicks schedule will be announced later Friday. According to a source, the Knicks will be back at the Garden for Martin Luther King Day, hosting Oklahoma City sans Carmelo Anthony.

Back on the sidelines, Fizdale coached Memphis for one season and one month before being fired Nov. 27 after a feud with All-Star center Marc Gasol.

Training camp opens Sept. 24, and the Knicks will work at their Tarrytown campus. During three seasons under Phil Jackson, the Knicks went away to West Point. In the recent past, they have trained at Saratoga and in Charleston, S.C.
https://nypost.com/2018/08/10/knicks-will-host-trae-young-and-the-hawks-to-open-season/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1856 » by shtolky » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:56 pm

taj2133 wrote:Knicks will host Trae Young and the Hawks to open season
The David Fizdale Era will open with a winnable game against Trae Young, The Post has learned.

In their first season opener at home since 2014, the Knicks will play host to the Hawks on Oct. 17 at the Garden.
The entire Knicks schedule will be announced later Friday. According to a source, the Knicks will be back at the Garden for Martin Luther King Day, hosting Oklahoma City sans Carmelo Anthony.

Back on the sidelines, Fizdale coached Memphis for one season and one month before being fired Nov. 27 after a feud with All-Star center Marc Gasol.

Training camp opens Sept. 24, and the Knicks will work at their Tarrytown campus. During three seasons under Phil Jackson, the Knicks went away to West Point. In the recent past, they have trained at Saratoga and in Charleston, S.C.
https://nypost.com/2018/08/10/knicks-will-host-trae-young-and-the-hawks-to-open-season/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons



Might be the only time during the season we are over .500.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1857 » by cgf » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:17 pm

shtolky wrote:
taj2133 wrote:Knicks will host Trae Young and the Hawks to open season
The David Fizdale Era will open with a winnable game against Trae Young, The Post has learned.

In their first season opener at home since 2014, the Knicks will play host to the Hawks on Oct. 17 at the Garden.
The entire Knicks schedule will be announced later Friday. According to a source, the Knicks will be back at the Garden for Martin Luther King Day, hosting Oklahoma City sans Carmelo Anthony.

Back on the sidelines, Fizdale coached Memphis for one season and one month before being fired Nov. 27 after a feud with All-Star center Marc Gasol.

Training camp opens Sept. 24, and the Knicks will work at their Tarrytown campus. During three seasons under Phil Jackson, the Knicks went away to West Point. In the recent past, they have trained at Saratoga and in Charleston, S.C.
https://nypost.com/2018/08/10/knicks-will-host-trae-young-and-the-hawks-to-open-season/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons



Might be the only time during the season we are over .500.


Timmy will have us over .500 when he leaves for his first ASG...
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1858 » by isiah_thomas » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:21 pm

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
they really cut the cord on us this year
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1859 » by Clyde Frazier » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:24 pm

isiah_thomas wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
they really cut the cord on us this year


a quick glance i did 24-58 not really taking KP in mind.. if he comes back around ASB we're probably looking at 30 wins, just cracking the over
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Re: Official Knicks Offseason Thread 

Post#1860 » by isiah_thomas » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:27 pm

Read on Twitter
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