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[BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan'

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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#121 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:47 pm

cgf wrote:
Greenie wrote:
cgf wrote:
If he wants to play on a eastern contender with Kyrie? Yes.



No.

That’s once again putting pressure on players to do a front offices job for them.


Ok, how does that change the reality for KP that if he wants a max cat to join him he's gunna have to wait to sign his max deal until after that cat is signed?

...like many other NBAers have had to do...


Name them.
Dudes like KP get extensions. They don’t hit free agency.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#122 » by HEZI » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:49 pm

Greenie wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Hezi, it’s called security.


Greenie c'mon now, it's Kristaps Porzingis. He's going to get paid. We're not dealing with a Jeremy Lin here, we're talking about the face of the franchise. He's going to get paid, if not the Knicks then somebody else but he is going to get paid and everybody knows it.



He’s 7’3’’ coming off a knee injury. If he can’t play or he comes back looking worse his value goes down.

Boogie just took what?


Cousins is like 28 years old and had built a somewhat bad rep around the league for his character issues. There are plenty of teams that didn't want him even when he was healthy. Regardless of that though the Pelicans still offered him 40 million for 2 years after his injury and he declined.

Porzingis is 22 years old and even if he can't play or plays worse he's still going to get paid. Look at Zach Lavine, he still got his 80 million despite only playing in like 20 games and playing worse than his previous season in Minnesota.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#123 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:49 pm

Capn'O wrote:
shtolky wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
:lol:




Stellar analogy.

We have 40m in space. Is this not a fact? If I get a D on a test and then nine straight A's, are those A's meaningless because of my D? Yes, Noah and THJ were dumb signings and yet we STILL have that space. When you make two bad mistakes like that and still have a boatload of cap space, you've done well with cap management. I never said perfect cap management.


It's a conditional fact. We have that option but it's a little misleading to tout it without the considerations that would accompany it. To get near 40 mil, we'd have to decline Frank's option, not sign Knox, and renounce all of our cap holds including KPs. This is also before If you stretch Noah and keep KP's hold on the books. If you keep KP's hold, sign Knox, and stretch Noah you're down to about 31 million. I don't know why they have Baker for another year and don't have Hezonja yet but that's the math.

The Knicks are in a tough spot in order to have that kind of space and keep their developing players. Once the Knicks bring back the players they should damn well be keeping there's not much left. We'd still have to wiggle significantly to have one max slot with good players behind it.



Bingo.

Who’s fault is that?
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#124 » by cgf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:56 pm

Greenie wrote:
cgf wrote:
Greenie wrote:

No.

That’s once again putting pressure on players to do a front offices job for them.


Ok, how does that change the reality for KP that if he wants a max cat to join him he's gunna have to wait to sign his max deal until after that cat is signed?

...like many other NBAers have had to do...


Name them.
Dudes like KP get extensions. They don’t hit free agency.


Someone pointed out a few kids that did this...in one case the GM even came out & said that the player worked with them to let them use their cap space before giving him the max...and I'll even look it up for you when you explain to me why KP shouldn't consider the reality of his situation just because you are mad at management for the THJr & Noah contracts?

If he wants to play with Kyrie & we've dumped Lee, then why shouldn't he work with management to make it happen? Fans aren't the only ones who want to see their stars playing with other stars.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#125 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:04 pm

HEZI wrote:
Greenie wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Greenie c'mon now, it's Kristaps Porzingis. He's going to get paid. We're not dealing with a Jeremy Lin here, we're talking about the face of the franchise. He's going to get paid, if not the Knicks then somebody else but he is going to get paid and everybody knows it.



He’s 7’3’’ coming off a knee injury. If he can’t play or he comes back looking worse his value goes down.

Boogie just took what?


Cousins is like 28 years old and had built a somewhat bad rep around the league for his character issues. There are plenty of teams that didn't want him even when he was healthy. Regardless of that though the Pelicans still offered him 40 million for 2 years after his injury and he declined.

Porzingis is 22 years old and even if he can't play or plays worse he's still going to get paid. Look at Zach Lavine, he still got his 80 million despite only playing in like 20 games and playing worse than his previous season in Minnesota.


80? That’s not ****.
KP is looking at 27+ per year.

Zach is not KP and KP is not Zach.

As a matter of fact if Zach was on our team I wouldn’t give a damn about him hitting FA.

I actually care about what goes down with KP and HOW we do it.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#126 » by Capn'O » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:05 pm

Greenie wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
shtolky wrote:

Stellar analogy.

We have 40m in space. Is this not a fact? If I get a D on a test and then nine straight A's, are those A's meaningless because of my D? Yes, Noah and THJ were dumb signings and yet we STILL have that space. When you make two bad mistakes like that and still have a boatload of cap space, you've done well with cap management. I never said perfect cap management.


It's a conditional fact. We have that option but it's a little misleading to tout it without the considerations that would accompany it. To get near 40 mil, we'd have to decline Frank's option, not sign Knox, and renounce all of our cap holds including KPs. This is also before If you stretch Noah and keep KP's hold on the books. If you keep KP's hold, sign Knox, and stretch Noah you're down to about 31 million. I don't know why they have Baker for another year and don't have Hezonja yet but that's the math.

The Knicks are in a tough spot in order to have that kind of space and keep their developing players. Once the Knicks bring back the players they should damn well be keeping there's not much left. We'd still have to wiggle significantly to have one max slot with good players behind it.



Bingo.

Who’s fault is that?


Phills'.

I like Perry.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#127 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:05 pm

cgf wrote:
Greenie wrote:
cgf wrote:
Ok, how does that change the reality for KP that if he wants a max cat to join him he's gunna have to wait to sign his max deal until after that cat is signed?

...like many other NBAers have had to do...


Name them.
Dudes like KP get extensions. They don’t hit free agency.


Someone pointed out a few kids that did this...in one case the GM even came out & said that the player worked with them to let them use their cap space before giving him the max...and I'll even look it up for you when you explain to me why KP shouldn't consider the reality of his situation just because you are mad at management for the THJr & Noah contracts?

If he wants to play with Kyrie & we've dumped Lee, then why shouldn't he work with management to make it happen? Fans aren't the only ones who want to see their stars playing with other stars.



I’ll wait.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#128 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:06 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
It's a conditional fact. We have that option but it's a little misleading to tout it without the considerations that would accompany it. To get near 40 mil, we'd have to decline Frank's option, not sign Knox, and renounce all of our cap holds including KPs. This is also before If you stretch Noah and keep KP's hold on the books. If you keep KP's hold, sign Knox, and stretch Noah you're down to about 31 million. I don't know why they have Baker for another year and don't have Hezonja yet but that's the math.

The Knicks are in a tough spot in order to have that kind of space and keep their developing players. Once the Knicks bring back the players they should damn well be keeping there's not much left. We'd still have to wiggle significantly to have one max slot with good players behind it.



Bingo.

Who’s fault is that?


Phills'.

I like Perry.


:lol:
I like him too(I think I blame Mills for the Willy trade).
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#129 » by HEZI » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:12 pm

Greenie wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Greenie wrote:

He’s 7’3’’ coming off a knee injury. If he can’t play or he comes back looking worse his value goes down.

Boogie just took what?


Cousins is like 28 years old and had built a somewhat bad rep around the league for his character issues. There are plenty of teams that didn't want him even when he was healthy. Regardless of that though the Pelicans still offered him 40 million for 2 years after his injury and he declined.

Porzingis is 22 years old and even if he can't play or plays worse he's still going to get paid. Look at Zach Lavine, he still got his 80 million despite only playing in like 20 games and playing worse than his previous season in Minnesota.


80? That’s not ****.
KP is looking at 27+ per year.

Zach is not KP and KP is not Zach.

As a matter of fact if Zach was on our team I wouldn’t give a damn about him hitting FA.

I actually care about what goes down with KP and HOW we do it.


How is that not shyt? Zach signed for 4 years so that's 20 mil per year. That's bank! And like you said, he's not KP so that proves my point. The comparison I was making was in the injury and their age but as far as value goes, yeah KP is worth way more and he's going to get paid his money just like Zach got his.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#130 » by Jstock12 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:14 pm

Greenie wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Hezi, it’s called security.


Greenie c'mon now, it's Kristaps Porzingis. He's going to get paid. We're not dealing with a Jeremy Lin here, we're talking about the face of the franchise. He's going to get paid, if not the Knicks then somebody else but he is going to get paid and everybody knows it.



He’s 7’3’’ coming off a knee injury. If he can’t play or he comes back looking worse his value goes down.

Boogie just took what?


Image

KP is getting the max...

...
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#131 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:14 pm

No player has an obligation to do managements job for them.

You all are hypocrites if you say otherwise. Why? Because you will blame players for managements decisions when **** goes left talking about players shouldn’t involve themselves in front office business.

This IS front office business. KP has no part in it.

KP should not be blamed at all if management can’t build **** around him because they had to actually pay him.

It’s called foresight. The Knicks lack it and now we as fans expect KP to work around it because thos front office has adjusted it’s plans on a whim.

FOH
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#132 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:16 pm

Jstock12 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Greenie c'mon now, it's Kristaps Porzingis. He's going to get paid. We're not dealing with a Jeremy Lin here, we're talking about the face of the franchise. He's going to get paid, if not the Knicks then somebody else but he is going to get paid and everybody knows it.



He’s 7’3’’ coming off a knee injury. If he can’t play or he comes back looking worse his value goes down.

Boogie just took what?


Image

KP is getting the max...

...



Let him secure it then.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#133 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:19 pm

This whole plan stinks of 2010.

Pay KP. Fuq a max unless you can move the three stooges on our cap.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#134 » by Capn'O » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:19 pm

Greenie wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Bingo.

Who’s fault is that?


Phills'.

I like Perry.


:lol:
I like him too(I think I blame Mills for the Willy trade).


Whatever gets you through the day but that really could have been Perry. That dude is stingy and he knew Enes was coming back and that he wanted a more athletic center. I'm imagining he just made his stingy old man Perry face and said "$1.5 million is still a lot of money meyah."

This face:

Image
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#135 » by Capn'O » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm

Greenie wrote:This whole plan stinks of 2010.

Pay KP. Fuq a max unless you can move the three stooges on our cap.


Yes. Pay KP. Then, I think you HAVE to imagine a scenario where you strike out in free agency and re-up the youngin's you have a cap hold on.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#136 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Phills'.

I like Perry.


:lol:
I like him too(I think I blame Mills for the Willy trade).


Whatever gets you through the day but that really could have been Perry. That dude is stingy and he knew Enes was coming back and that he wanted a more athletic center. I'm imagining he just made his stingy old man Perry face and said "$1.5 million is still a lot of money meyah."

This face:

Image



Perry would have found a way to drop Enes instead
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#137 » by Jstock12 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:21 pm

Greenie wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:
Greenie wrote:

He’s 7’3’’ coming off a knee injury. If he can’t play or he comes back looking worse his value goes down.

Boogie just took what?


Image

KP is getting the max...

...



Let him secure it then.


It's best to give your young superstars early extensions. Letting them 'prove themselves' can create distrust. I think in KP's mind he's done more than enough to prove that he's a young player worthy of a max extension. And one of the jobs of the FO is too keep their star players happy, not alienate them.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#138 » by Greenie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:23 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Greenie wrote:This whole plan stinks of 2010.

Pay KP. Fuq a max unless you can move the three stooges on our cap.


Yes. Pay KP. Then, I think you HAVE to imagine a scenario where you strike out in free agency and re-up the youngin's you have a cap hold on.

Exactly.

It’s what we should have done in 2010 but we got desperate and signed STAT instead of allowing Gallo and Chandler have run for at least a year.

Build around the core we have while working on moving Lee, Noah and Timmy.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#139 » by Capn'O » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:23 pm

Jstock12 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:
Image

KP is getting the max...

...



Let him secure it then.


It's best to give your young superstars early extensions. Letting them 'prove themselves' can create distrust. I think in KP's mind he's done more than enough to prove that he's a young player worthy of a max extension. And one of the jobs of the FO is too keep their star players happy, not alienate them.


Greenie is actually arguing the same point.
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Re: [BR] - Kristaps Porzingis Contract Extension Part of Knicks' 'Long-Term Plan' 

Post#140 » by Spree2Houston » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Greenie wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:Everyone is throwing their own numbers of how much cap we will have next season. But here is the breakdown if we sign KP now. We would only have $6.7mil in cap. If we stretch Noah and extend KP before next summer, then we would only have roughly $20mil in cap. However, if we wait to sign KP until next summer with his caphold would only be $16mil, we would have roughly $29mil in cap (after we've stretched Noah). So there is a huge difference in signing him now then signing him after we've signed potentially Kyrie. He will get his max regardless. If he knows Kyrie wants to come here, then he will allow the Knicks to sign him and then they'll give him his max contract immediately afterwards. He could get hurt again and James Dolan will still give him the max. We do it all the time.

Image


29 isn’t Kyrie’s max.
It’s 30+


He will be eligible for 31. Durant signed a 2 yr 56 mil contract when he signed with Golden State. I don't think Kyrie will argue over $2 million. Guys like him, KD, Bron makes so much off the court that they have taken small paycuts to go to their respective teams. Also the cap is going up next season by a few million which will allow us to be in the 30+ plus range to get him anyway.

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