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Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks

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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#201 » by dakomish23 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:34 pm

cgf wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
cgf wrote:
Because Baker is an NBA caliber defender, while Dot is an NBA-caliber...towel waver? It’s like the Troy thing, what did he actually do at an NBA level? Nothing. Baker & Lance can at least defend at an NBA level.


I could t disagree with you more. Baker is ok and Dot will be too.

I don’t even know where to begin on the Troy VS LFT argument. :lol:


What argument? Lance has carved out a competent career for himself with his D, Troy’s D has him looking for his 6th team in 2 years.

Dot could become ok, like Troy, but atm neither does anything well; whereas Baker & Lance are NBA caliber defenders today.


Lance was a journeyman till he stuck with us long term in 2016 at age 28.

Writing off Troy at age 23 is crazy IMO.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#202 » by Jeff Van Gully » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:39 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:i want skal/patton/okafor the most


You know I’ve been on the Patton train for a while now. Lee for perfect into what MIN needed.

I want a shot at Decker. LAC might cut him.

Frank Burke
Dotson THJ
Knox Decker
Mario
Robinson Kornet Vonleh

I wish we kept Troy :nonono:

start burke and frank together :D

and yah waiving troy was a bad move but oh well... -_-


THJ off the bench? word?
que sera sera
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#203 » by Jeff Van Gully » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:40 pm

QBoro KnicksFan wrote:[gfycat][/gfycat]
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
You know I’ve been on the Patton train for a while now. Lee for perfect into what MIN needed.

I want a shot at Decker. LAC might cut him.

Frank Burke
Dotson THJ
Knox Decker
Mario
Robinson Kornet Vonleh

I wish we kept Troy :nonono:


i liked troy too. who would you have sent packing?


Baker. Or Mudiay. Or Lance.


expiring contract trade chips. all of them. salary matches.
que sera sera
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#204 » by dakomish23 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:43 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
You know I’ve been on the Patton train for a while now. Lee for perfect into what MIN needed.

I want a shot at Decker. LAC might cut him.

Frank Burke
Dotson THJ
Knox Decker
Mario
Robinson Kornet Vonleh

I wish we kept Troy :nonono:

start burke and frank together :D

and yah waiving troy was a bad move but oh well... -_-


THJ off the bench? word?


Hell yeah. He’d be great as a 6th man.
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#205 » by cgf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:46 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
cgf wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
I could t disagree with you more. Baker is ok and Dot will be too.

I don’t even know where to begin on the Troy VS LFT argument. :lol:


What argument? Lance has carved out a competent career for himself with his D, Troy’s D has him looking for his 6th team in 2 years.

Dot could become ok, like Troy, but atm neither does anything well; whereas Baker & Lance are NBA caliber defenders today.


Lance was a journeyman till he stuck with us long term in 2016 at age 28.

Writing off Troy at age 23 is crazy IMO.


Huh? Where did I write him off? I specifically mentioned that I was talking about the present. Troy could certainly improve his D & learn to play under control over the next 5 years...but that wouldn't change his utility this season.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#206 » by Jeff Van Gully » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:47 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
You know I’ve been on the Patton train for a while now. Lee for perfect into what MIN needed.

I want a shot at Decker. LAC might cut him.

Frank Burke
Dotson THJ
Knox Decker
Mario
Robinson Kornet Vonleh

I wish we kept Troy :nonono:


i liked troy too. who would you have sent packing?


I thought they have till October to finalize the 15 man roster? Usually happens right before opening day.

Why the rush? Maybe they were doing Troy a solid. I would have kept him. His energy and defense were great and he didn’t need the ball in hands.

Yep. I’m reminiscing over him and hip heads will remember why I worded it this way.


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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#207 » by Are We Ther Yet » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:48 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
cgf wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
I won’t trash Baker but I don’t see how he’s far better than Dot


Because Baker is an NBA caliber defender, while Dot is an NBA-caliber...towel waver? It’s like the Troy thing, what did he actually do at an NBA level? Nothing. Baker & Lance can at least defend at an NBA level.


I could t disagree with you more. Baker is ok and Dot will be too.

I don’t even know where to begin on the Troy VS LFT argument. :lol:


Dot does nothing well. He's barely a body on the floor most nights. Baker is a solid defender who can run the offense. He's a consistent jump shot away from being a solid rotation piece. If he could drive and finish better with a consistent jumper...he's a starting level player.

Dotson brings very little to the table besides effort.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#208 » by cgf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
cgf wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
I thought they have till October to finalize the 15 man roster? Usually happens right before opening day.

Why the rush? Maybe they were doing Troy a solid. I would have kept him. His energy and defense were great and he didn’t need the ball in hands.

Yep. I’m reminiscing over him and hip heads will remember why I worded it this way.


Where does this idea that Troy was a competent defender come from? His athleticism & effort-level?


Actual output during the game??

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


What is your idea that he wasn’t coming from??


Transition dunks are now defense? Or is one steal supposed to convince people that he's actually a good defender? Want me to find the clip of Eddy Curry's 1 career steal as well?

Troy has all of the physical tools to become a 3&D bench player...if he learns to hit the 3 & play D...
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#209 » by cgf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:54 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:I honestly do want to see Lance in a structure defense scheme. He's already a very good team defender. Baker as well.

I do think both needs to find some way to really be helpful on offense to be able to justify being on the court.


Yeah, it's not like I think either one should be brought back or play major minutes moving forward...unless either one can start hitting the 3 consistently & will come back on a vet-minimum deal...but they at least have an NBA-function atm and only need to add something to their game to validate more PT.

Guys like Troy & Dot need to develop just to have an NBA function...though I'm rooting for both to carve out NBA careers for themselves.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#210 » by cgf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:57 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
GONYK wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
There are big gaps from Dotson that if remedied would make him a pretty complete role player too.


Very true. Dot just seems to have trouble making a consistent impact.

Baker doesn't. I feel like he's always making his presence felt. He just can't shoot.


I’m in the Baker fan club and defended him last year when folks said scrap him. I thought the same thing about his jumper and to start off the season he was solid.

I’d like to apply that same patience to Dotson.

I’d like to keep both if possible.


This I don't disagree with, I think Dot could be a good deep bench guy down the road & if we can keep him around I'm down...but I see some folks talk about him & Troy as though they were already useful bench guys & neither of them were NBA-defenders yet.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#211 » by Are We Ther Yet » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:02 pm

cgf wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Very true. Dot just seems to have trouble making a consistent impact.

Baker doesn't. I feel like he's always making his presence felt. He just can't shoot.


I’m in the Baker fan club and defended him last year when folks said scrap him. I thought the same thing about his jumper and to start off the season he was solid.

I’d like to apply that same patience to Dotson.

I’d like to keep both if possible.


This I don't disagree with, I think Dot could be a good deep bench guy down the road & if we can keep him around I'm down...but I see some folks talk about him & Troy as though they were already useful bench guys & neither of them were NBA-defenders yet.


This. I would like to keep them both. Dot is just odd man out because of his money and his not being better than Baker. Baker has shown enough and is closer to a rotation player than Dot.

If we just stretch Noah...we can keep both.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#212 » by cgf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:14 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
cgf wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
I’m in the Baker fan club and defended him last year when folks said scrap him. I thought the same thing about his jumper and to start off the season he was solid.

I’d like to apply that same patience to Dotson.

I’d like to keep both if possible.


This I don't disagree with, I think Dot could be a good deep bench guy down the road & if we can keep him around I'm down...but I see some folks talk about him & Troy as though they were already useful bench guys & neither of them were NBA-defenders yet.


This. I would like to keep them both. Dot is just odd man out because of his money and his not being better than Baker. Baker has shown enough and is closer to a rotation player than Dot.

If we just stretch Noah...we can keep both.


Stretching Noah now is just too much money on the books for too long for me. I'm not conceding that much flexibility to clean up the previous regime's mistakes...unless we need to stretch Noah next summer to get Kyrie/Kawhi/KD.

Let's see what camp brings, i.e. if Mudiay shows up out of show & his jumper is still broken then we could dump him & keep both Baker n Dot, if Lee is traded for an expiring we could just waive whoever we get for Lee or maybe whoever we get for Lee makes Vonleh expendable, Dot could play his way out of a spot, etc.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#213 » by dakomish23 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:17 pm

cgf wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
cgf wrote:
Where does this idea that Troy was a competent defender come from? His athleticism & effort-level?


Actual output during the game??

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


What is your idea that he wasn’t coming from??


Transition dunks are now defense? Or is one steal supposed to convince people that he's actually a good defender? Want me to find the clip of Eddy Curry's 1 career steal as well?

Troy has all of the physical tools to become a 3&D bench player...if he learns to hit the 3 & play D...


Go ahead. Show me the highlight of Eddy Curry getting beat but recovering to deflect the pass. Or show me a clip of his help defense to strip a guy as he’s trying to penetrate on someone else.

I’ll wait.

These are examples that are reflective of his activity and defensive instincts. He played the passing lanes well and was a solid help defender. Tied for the lead in steals on the team in half the minutes.

You have yet to point out why he’s not a good defender or even give an example.

He’s not on the team anymore so it’s time to crap on him?
Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.


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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#214 » by Are We Ther Yet » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:26 pm

cgf wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
cgf wrote:
This I don't disagree with, I think Dot could be a good deep bench guy down the road & if we can keep him around I'm down...but I see some folks talk about him & Troy as though they were already useful bench guys & neither of them were NBA-defenders yet.


This. I would like to keep them both. Dot is just odd man out because of his money and his not being better than Baker. Baker has shown enough and is closer to a rotation player than Dot.

If we just stretch Noah...we can keep both.


Stretching Noah now is just too much money on the books for too long for me. I'm not conceding that much flexibility to clean up the previous regime's mistakes...unless we need to stretch Noah next summer to get Kyrie/Kawhi/KD.

Let's see what camp brings, i.e. if Mudiay shows up out of show & his jumper is still broken then we could dump him & keep both Baker n Dot, if Lee is traded for an expiring we could just waive whoever we get for Lee or maybe whoever we get for Lee makes Vonleh expendable, Dot could play his way out of a spot, etc.


After SSeptember 1st...we stretch his final year for 3 years. Same asc waiting until next summer.

EDIT...not that I'm saying that's what I would stretch him for. Just the timing of it doesn't matter after September 1st.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#215 » by cgf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:39 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
cgf wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Actual output during the game??

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


What is your idea that he wasn’t coming from??


Transition dunks are now defense? Or is one steal supposed to convince people that he's actually a good defender? Want me to find the clip of Eddy Curry's 1 career steal as well?

Troy has all of the physical tools to become a 3&D bench player...if he learns to hit the 3 & play D...


Go ahead. Show me the highlight of Eddy Curry getting beat but recovering to deflect the pass. Or show me a clip of his help defense to strip a guy as he’s trying to penetrate on someone else.

I’ll wait.

These are examples that are reflective of his activity and defensive instincts. He played the passing lanes well and was a solid help defender. Tied for the lead in steals on the team in half the minutes.

You have yet to point out why he’s not a good defender or even give an example.

He’s not on the team anymore so it’s time to crap on him?


He wasn't particularly good at keeping guys in front of him and his advanced stats are pretty mediocre for an energy guy who's D is supposed to be his calling card. Yes, his athleticism has led to some nifty highlights & he had good steal #s, but those don't make you a good defender.

And nah, I made this point about Troy before SL to...and in the SL threads...so it's more like I saw some folks engaging in some good ol "he's not on the team anymore, so it's time to defy him" foolishness & decided to speak up :wink:
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#216 » by Jeffrey » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:41 pm

Maybe Jabari Parker is right. Fans don't understand defense as much as they should. And defense stats doesn't show you the whole picture. Offense gets paid.

Dotson was supposed to be a 3 and D guy. His shot and defense have been inconsistent. Baker does struggle on the offensive end but defensively he puts a serious amount of effort on defense. I feel for Frank too when many of the posters here doesn't see what he contributes.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#217 » by cgf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:02 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
cgf wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
This. I would like to keep them both. Dot is just odd man out because of his money and his not being better than Baker. Baker has shown enough and is closer to a rotation player than Dot.

If we just stretch Noah...we can keep both.


Stretching Noah now is just too much money on the books for too long for me. I'm not conceding that much flexibility to clean up the previous regime's mistakes...unless we need to stretch Noah next summer to get Kyrie/Kawhi/KD.

Let's see what camp brings, i.e. if Mudiay shows up out of show & his jumper is still broken then we could dump him & keep both Baker n Dot, if Lee is traded for an expiring we could just waive whoever we get for Lee or maybe whoever we get for Lee makes Vonleh expendable, Dot could play his way out of a spot, etc.


After SSeptember 1st...we stretch his final year for 3 years. Same asc waiting until next summer.

EDIT...not that I'm saying that's what I would stretch him for. Just the timing of it doesn't matter after September 1st.


I probably phrased that poorly.

Was more getting at how I think we should just wait it out until we know what the situation next summer will be...i.e. if we have to stretch Noah to sign Kyrie then we do it, but if we can get to 1 Max with Noah on the books & no 2nd guy is interested then I'd either just let Noah expire or deal his expiring for 2-year albatross + pick; something like Noah <---> Dieng + future 1st.

Hell if KD & Kyrie are interested in teaming up, stretching Noah would leave us with too little cap space to make it happen without KD & Kyrie forfeiting ~40M between them (if both signed 4 year deals) or KP having to play on his QO...even if THJr & Lee are dumped completely...wo we might need to dump Noah's cap hit fully.

Which is why I wouldn't commit to stretching Noah until we know what's happening with those FAs & how high we're picking...as picking 3rd instead of 9th would take away almost 4M in capspace, aka almost Knox or Frank's entire cap hit.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#218 » by Are We Ther Yet » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:25 pm

cgf wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
cgf wrote:
Stretching Noah now is just too much money on the books for too long for me. I'm not conceding that much flexibility to clean up the previous regime's mistakes...unless we need to stretch Noah next summer to get Kyrie/Kawhi/KD.

Let's see what camp brings, i.e. if Mudiay shows up out of show & his jumper is still broken then we could dump him & keep both Baker n Dot, if Lee is traded for an expiring we could just waive whoever we get for Lee or maybe whoever we get for Lee makes Vonleh expendable, Dot could play his way out of a spot, etc.


After SSeptember 1st...we stretch his final year for 3 years. Same asc waiting until next summer.

EDIT...not that I'm saying that's what I would stretch him for. Just the timing of it doesn't matter after September 1st.


I probably phrased that poorly.

Was more getting at how I think we should just wait it out until we know what the situation next summer will be...i.e. if we have to stretch Noah to sign Kyrie then we do it, but if we can get to 1 Max with Noah on the books & no 2nd guy is interested then I'd either just let Noah expire or deal his expiring for 2-year albatross + pick; something like Noah <---> Dieng + future 1st.

Hell if KD & Kyrie are interested in teaming up, stretching Noah would leave us with too little cap space to make it happen without KD & Kyrie forfeiting ~40M between them (if both signed 4 year deals) or KP having to play on his QO...even if THJr & Lee are dumped completely...wo we might need to dump Noah's cap hit fully.

Which is why I wouldn't commit to stretching Noah until we know what's happening with those FAs & how high we're picking...as picking 3rd instead of 9th would take away almost 4M in capspace, aka almost Knox or Frank's entire cap hit.


I don't want to stretch him unless absolutely necessary either.

This 2 max deals idea only flies if KD/Kyrie want to come. Not Kyrie and Butler. Kawhi ain't coming. Not sure there's anyone else I would consider it for. It's going to cost assets to clear that much cap room. I don't even want Kyrie but...whatever.

This discussion is a fairy tale to begin with.
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#219 » by QBoro KnicksFan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:14 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
cgf wrote:
Because Baker is an NBA caliber defender, while Dot is an NBA-caliber...towel waver? It’s like the Troy thing, what did he actually do at an NBA level? Nothing. Baker & Lance can at least defend at an NBA level.


I could t disagree with you more. Baker is ok and Dot will be too.

I don’t even know where to begin on the Troy VS LFT argument. :lol:


Dot does nothing well. He's barely a body on the floor most nights. Baker is a solid defender who can run the offense. He's a consistent jump shot away from being a solid rotation piece. If he could drive and finish better with a consistent jumper...he's a starting level player.

Dotson brings very little to the table besides effort.


Now you just making sh*t up. Baker aint runnin any offense with his super weak ass handles and non existent jumpshot, gtfoh :lol:

Dot rebounds well for his position so wrong again on that front. And while he's a streaky shooter at least he makes his shots sometimes unlike Baker he rarely makes any shot. Man what games were some of yall watchin last season :banghead:
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Re: Noah Vonleh signs with Knicks 

Post#220 » by Are We Ther Yet » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:26 pm

QBoro KnicksFan wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
I could t disagree with you more. Baker is ok and Dot will be too.

I don’t even know where to begin on the Troy VS LFT argument. :lol:


Dot does nothing well. He's barely a body on the floor most nights. Baker is a solid defender who can run the offense. He's a consistent jump shot away from being a solid rotation piece. If he could drive and finish better with a consistent jumper...he's a starting level player.

Dotson brings very little to the table besides effort.


Now you just making sh*t up. Baker aint runnin any offense with his super weak ass handles and non existent jumpshot, gtfoh :lol:

Dot rebounds well for his position so wrong again on that front. And while he's a streaky shooter at least he makes his shots sometimes unlike Baker he rarely makes any shot. Man what games were some of yall watchin last season :banghead:


Dude...Dotson is not even close to Baker as far as having actual impact. You're the one making **** up. Baker can and HAS run the offense. He made Rose go awol. Dotson does nothing to help this team win. He's an invisible man 90% of the time.

Rebounds well? FOH!
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