OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump

[DOT]

Also, I'd like to point out that we're at the point where the right's talking point is "sure, Trump colluded with the Russians, but it isn't technically a crime, and thank God he did, or else Hillary would've won"

When we started, it was "there was no contact between the campaign and any Russians," and they're slowly walking it back to the point where 35% of the country just accepts the idea of a presidential candidate enlisting the help of a foreign government to win the election as normal

[spree2kawhi]

Can this be grounds for impeaching Trump?

This is all I want to know really. The rest is hopefully going to be a good movie ten years into a happier life.

[Kampuchea]

This was published a year ago and has become a classic piece of investigative journalism about Trump's criminal business dealings with the Russians.

Trump’s Russian Laundromat

https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

I read this previously, and want to highlight this particular quote:

To date, no one has documented that Trump was even aware of any suspicious entanglements in his far-flung businesses, let alone that he was directly compromised by the Russian mafia or the corrupt oligarchs who are closely allied with the Kremlin. So far, when it comes to Trump’s ties to Russia, there is no smoking gun.

The only thing we can say with certainty is that Trumps ventures had a serious lack of control, and this is what he was fined for.

[earthmansurfer]

Dude had to pay nearly 300 grand to have sex twice

I don't think he's as good of a dealmaker as he says he is

I disagree.
First, we don't actually know how many times he had sex with the two women.
And second, when you consider divorce settlements for a billionaire, he got a bargain basement price.

Anyway, interesting thread. As others said, so many connections to the Mafia in NY. When I was a kid, everyone and their uncle had a connection. Any problems could be solved with just 1 phone call as I remember.

Kennedy was a GREAT GREAT president. He got his money from his dad who was heavily connected to the mafia and their money had a lot to do with the Mafia. Doesn't mean JFK was a bad guy.

So you're saying Trump is a good guy and russian mafia ruling states is a good thing.

GOTCHA

Nope, didn't say that. I feel like I'm being interviewed by CNN.

[ChilledAlex]

I disagree.
First, we don't actually know how many times he had sex with the two women.
And second, when you consider divorce settlements for a billionaire, he got a bargain basement price.

Anyway, interesting thread. As others said, so many connections to the Mafia in NY. When I was a kid, everyone and their uncle had a connection. Any problems could be solved with just 1 phone call as I remember.

Kennedy was a GREAT GREAT president. He got his money from his dad who was heavily connected to the mafia and their money had a lot to do with the Mafia. Doesn't mean JFK was a bad guy.

So you're saying Trump is a good guy and russian mafia ruling states is a good thing.

GOTCHA

Nope, didn't say that. I feel like I'm being interviewed by CNN.

What did you say then? Trump is misunderstood all the time?

I could give you some reading materials about Putin and what Russian "government" actually is these days only problem is... it's in russian.

After reading that you would understand that ANY ties to ANY russian "businessman" or "government official" is basically ties to russian mafia. Since long story short - Kremlin is KGB+Mafia syndicate that operates worldwide, starting from illegal weapon sales, drug trafficking, human trafficking, assassinations... everything you can imagine.

And Trump as stupid as he is is just a useful idiot whos 2 priorities are: 1) lifting/easing sanctions(so that russian mafia can live luxury lifestyle everywhere they want) and 2) discrediting U.S all over the world and weakening/disrupting all global organizations it is major player in.


If thats not a treason and conspiracy worth a nice sweet vacation in jail then I don't know what is.

[Kampuchea]

So you're saying Trump is a good guy and russian mafia ruling states is a good thing.

GOTCHA

Nope, didn't say that. I feel like I'm being interviewed by CNN.

What did you say then? Trump is misunderstood all the time?

I could give you some reading materials about Putin and what Russian "government" actually is these days only problem is... it's in russian.

After reading that you would understand that ANY ties to ANY russian "businessman" or "government official" is basically ties to russian mafia. Since long story short - Kremlin is KGB+Mafia syndicate that operates worldwide, starting from illegal weapon sales, drug trafficking, human trafficking, assassinations... everything you can imagine.

And Trump as stupid as he is is just a useful idiot whos 2 priorities are: 1) lifting/easing sanctions(so that russian mafia can live luxury lifestyle everywhere they want) and 2) discrediting U.S all over the world and weakening/disrupting all global organizations it is major player in.


If thats not a treason and conspiracy worth a nice sweet vacation in jail then I don't know what is.

What did he say? It’s right there in plain English and I’m uncertain why you would need to reword it as if it’s unclear.

[earthmansurfer]

So you're saying Trump is a good guy and russian mafia ruling states is a good thing.

GOTCHA

Nope, didn't say that. I feel like I'm being interviewed by CNN.

What did you say then? Trump is misunderstood all the time?

I could give you some reading materials about Putin and what Russian "government" actually is these days only problem is... it's in russian.

After reading that you would understand that ANY ties to ANY russian "businessman" or "government official" is basically ties to russian mafia. Since long story short - Kremlin is KGB+Mafia syndicate that operates worldwide, starting from illegal weapon sales, drug trafficking, human trafficking, assassinations... everything you can imagine.

And Trump as stupid as he is is just a useful idiot whos 2 priorities are: 1) lifting/easing sanctions(so that russian mafia can live luxury lifestyle everywhere they want) and 2) discrediting U.S all over the world and weakening/disrupting all global organizations it is major player in.


If thats not a treason and conspiracy worth a nice sweet vacation in jail then I don't know what is.

If a crime has been committed (and collusion is not a crime) then identify the crime, and start an investigation. Don't investigate a person, investigate a crime. Perhaps someone should tweet the OP post on to Mueller.

[nykballa2k4]

A note of warning: For these threads, opinions are opinions but fact based statements must be backed by verified sourcing.

XOXO

Higher standards than Fox News and the White House.

[NBA Fan 1234]

https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-923-18-usc-371-conspiracy-defraud-us

Then there is potential under computer fraud, violation of campaign finance laws, aiding and abetting, and many others.




(Just came to post this, not getting into any back and forths with anyone. Keep it up though, Clyde! Counting down the days, man; counting them down! )

[Kampuchea]

https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-923-18-usc-371-conspiracy-defraud-us

Then there is potential under computer fraud, violation of campaign finance laws, aiding and abetting, and many others.




(Just came to post this, not getting into any back and forths with anyone. Keep it up though, Clyde! Counting down the days, man; counting them down! )

I see no such potential, rather I see more opportunity for the media and others to try and work people into a frenzy without anything of substance.

Instead of potential, I see the reality of today continuing....Trump remains and media uses people as its pawns.

[j4remi]

I had mostly assumed we'd end up with a bunch of financial crime implications but no solid proof of collusion. This interview with Marcy Wheeler made me do a double-take though, yes it's long, but man it's pretty heavy...especially considering it happened days before the hacker indictments and she said there would be noise within a month. She ended up giving up a source and admitting to it in spite of a history basically going after the intelligence apparatus in the past.

Watch on YouTube

[thebuzzardman]

This was published a year ago and has become a classic piece of investigative journalism about Trump's criminal business dealings with the Russians.

Trump’s Russian Laundromat

https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

I read this previously, and want to highlight this particular quote:

To date, no one has documented that Trump was even aware of any suspicious entanglements in his far-flung businesses, let alone that he was directly compromised by the Russian mafia or the corrupt oligarchs who are closely allied with the Kremlin. So far, when it comes to Trump’s ties to Russia, there is no smoking gun.

The only thing we can say with certainty is that Trumps ventures had a serious lack of control, and this is what he was fined for.

Might be true. You do know that plausible deniability has long been a concept, eh? I mean, it's not just for nation states and their intelligence agencies.

[CharlesOakley]

If a crime has been committed (and collusion is not a crime) then identify the crime, and start an investigation. Don't investigate a person, investigate a crime. Perhaps someone should tweet the OP post on to Mueller.

Colluding with a foreign government to win a presidential election is call "treason" or "conspiracy". Stop getting legal advice from Guiliani.

[thebuzzardman]

Nope, didn't say that. I feel like I'm being interviewed by CNN.

What did you say then? Trump is misunderstood all the time?

I could give you some reading materials about Putin and what Russian "government" actually is these days only problem is... it's in russian.

After reading that you would understand that ANY ties to ANY russian "businessman" or "government official" is basically ties to russian mafia. Since long story short - Kremlin is KGB+Mafia syndicate that operates worldwide, starting from illegal weapon sales, drug trafficking, human trafficking, assassinations... everything you can imagine.

And Trump as stupid as he is is just a useful idiot whos 2 priorities are: 1) lifting/easing sanctions(so that russian mafia can live luxury lifestyle everywhere they want) and 2) discrediting U.S all over the world and weakening/disrupting all global organizations it is major player in.


If thats not a treason and conspiracy worth a nice sweet vacation in jail then I don't know what is.

If a crime has been committed (and collusion is not a crime) then identify the crime, and start an investigation. Don't investigate a person, investigate a crime. Perhaps someone should tweet the OP post on to Mueller.

Mueller is investigating the possibility of russian interference in the election. He's been given a broad mandate to look into other crimes, helpful when trying to untangle money trails established by intelligence professionals and lawyers/accounts who have it as their speciality. And of course to gain leverage on people who committed other crimes to talk, in a RICO like case.

Trump is only one who seems to feel "It's all about Trump"

Ah, how I long for the days when conservatives were about patriotism, the rule of law, national defense and the free market.

Today I can't honestly say with assurance they are about any of those things. That's why I no longer am one.

*EDIT - I should stop interjecting opinion, as it crowds a thread that should be about links and facts or supported opinions

[Kampuchea]

This was published a year ago and has become a classic piece of investigative journalism about Trump's criminal business dealings with the Russians.

Trump’s Russian Laundromat

https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

I read this previously, and want to highlight this particular quote:

To date, no one has documented that Trump was even aware of any suspicious entanglements in his far-flung businesses, let alone that he was directly compromised by the Russian mafia or the corrupt oligarchs who are closely allied with the Kremlin. So far, when it comes to Trump’s ties to Russia, there is no smoking gun.

The only thing we can say with certainty is that Trumps ventures had a serious lack of control, and this is what he was fined for.

Might be true. You do know that plausible deniability has long been a concept, eh? I mean, it's not just for nation states and their intelligence agencies.

Re: plausible deniability, of course. I think that is a concept familiar to almost every builder in NYC during that period where Trump was building.

This is not the smoking gun you are looking for, and it is rather old news which will not have any meaningful impact besides a few twitter rants.

[thebuzzardman]

Interesting snippet from Marcy Wheeler interview:

"The events of 2016 are broader than is generally understood"

Whoa.

[j4remi]

Interesting snippet from Marcy Wheeler interview:

"The events of 2016 are broader than is generally understood"

Whoa.

Interview took me from just waiting for more information to really interested and looking more deeply at the details.

As an aside: Mueller having Podesta and Craig looked into is a strong bit of news that points to this investigation being unbiased and ought to make it harder for people to cry witch hunt (though it won't...that Qanon nonsense is dishearteningly dumb).

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/31/17637426/robert-mueller-ukraine-lobbyists-tony-podesta-vin-weber-greg-craig

[thebuzzardman]

Interesting snippet from Marcy Wheeler interview:

"The events of 2016 are broader than is generally understood"

Whoa.

Interview took me from just waiting for more information to really interested and looking more deeply at the details.

As an aside: Mueller having Podesta and Craig looked into is a strong bit of news that points to this investigation being unbiased and ought to make it harder for people to cry witch hunt (though it won't...that Qanon nonsense is dishearteningly dumb).

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/31/17637426/robert-mueller-ukraine-lobbyists-tony-podesta-vin-weber-greg-craig

Agreed. There was an article or editorial somewhere that the country needs to have a hard look at it's kleptocracy problem, around the Manafort case - the implication being there are LOTS of people making money off public money in an underhanded way. I'll try to find it. The article didn't doubt his guilt, just felt that part of the bigger picture was important.

What i find fascinating about the video, and I'm only 30 minutes in (yay off day!)

-> The source is NOT part of the Trump inner circle or republican inner circle

-> That she's alarmed such a person could have had access to this information regarding the hard pivot on Syria/Russia/Israel/Saudi Arabia. She later states her source had a role in hacking the election. (I guess the implication is that there was too much coordination on foreign policy with foreigners BEFORE the election, as the plan was ready to go and Flynn got marching orders from Trump hours after the WIN, no less the inauguration etc. Now, I don't think it's necessarily wrong for channels to be established by people running ahead of time, but making promises etc is over the line. Anyway, people who are experts in what is allowed or not seem convinced of foul play)

-> The person was spreading false information to her and others, she had proof of brute force attacks on the account for her blog and attempts were made to try and post comments as her.

-> Not specifically from the video, but another site (I was trying to figure out the timeline of video date - July 22) and article about her revealing her source to the FBI (July 10) but in that article, she states she felt some fear for her life, but feels protected in that if anything happened to her, either murder or theft of documents, hack etc, it would be clear exactly who was behind it.

-> Her speculation is that this person had this information so readily, and the pivot was so soon, that this Syria deal with Russia via Flynn was payoff for the assistance of hacking the election.



So, after all that, I was wondering who approached her. She had reason to fear this person, or his contacts. Yet not in the Trump circle (rules out Sater or Cohen or Bannon). Feels like a Russian embassy person. Who either has real information or all this is part of the ongoing campaign to create confusion.

[Clyde_Style]

I'm too busy this morning to get involved in any detail, but I'd like to add a quick couple of points:

1) Pointing out historical mafia and Russian involvements as a rule is not the primary basis for the special counsel's investigation;

2) Trump was UNDER INVESTIGATION PRIOR TO THE ELECTION and PRIOR TO MUELLER for suspicious behavior regarding him and his associates and their contacts with Russian agents

3) This was triggered by SIG INT* picked up by both American and European intelligence agencies that captured these encounters

4) which led to FISA warrants being issued to the FBI to pursue investigations

There is data going back far longer than most are accounting for that will prove these activities. Mueller's investigation takes time, but for the largest federal investigation of all freaking time it is actually moving at a blistering pace. This case is so massive with so many moving parts that taking a little over a year to amass the data and construct the case is really fast.

We are past the inflection point now. Prosecutions are beginning, the GOP is cutting ties with Trump and he is on his own now. Anyone who says that nothing will happen because it would have happened already really has very little grasp of the immensity and complexity of this case, because it combines large scale financial fraud married to treason. It's a big ball of wax.

*Signals intelligence (SIGINT) is intelligence-gathering by interception of signals, whether communications between people (communications intelligence—abbreviated to COMINT) or from electronic signals not directly used in communication (electronic intelligence—abbreviated to ELINT).

[awy]

while it's plain to see directed coordination if you look at foreign policy and related moves by trump, proving treason is pretty difficult for two reasons.

the uncertain success of a certain exfiltration op of a secure alfa bank server.
even if the back channel communication between trump and rusrus is breached, it's secret intelligence evidence and involves a great level of exposure of methods and capabilities. this capability may already be compromised by past incidents like snowden which required the offlining of all suspected-to-be-compromised capabilities on russia and china.

there was the additional consideration of a lack of a nice cleanup after a direct exposure of the trump situation. obama was kind of caught with pants down and did not decide to breach the issue into the open. and damages to sources and capabilities, let alone political leadership obviously, 2 years into trump's reign may make a straight up exposure led by intelligence material impossible.

i'd put the chance of mueller getting trump on some sort of treason at <5%, and this being a political trial with a highly personally devoted congress backing trump at every turn, the chance of removal is not much above 5%.