Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks"

[Knicksfan1992]

What happens when jimmys body cant hold up because of thibs abuse

Up to the Knicks to make that determination but when healthy Jimmy is a heckuva basketball player. If you can bring him in with a Kyrie it's a home run IMO. You're instantly the best team in the East IMO. Especially since you'd be weakening the Celtics in the process.

[DOT]

I still say what's gonna happen is we'll strike out on all the big names and settle on Kemba

[2010]

The Knicks don’t get to be all that picky.
Whoever we get will be overpaid because the big fish aren’t coming(KD, Giannis...hell, even Klay).

So it’s one of two things:

A maxed out KP being expected to carry

Or

A maxed out whoever(Butler, Kyrie) + a maxed out KP being expected to carry




Either way the rebuild is over once KP signs his max contract. This is the last joke of a “rebuild” year.

Sometimes the "big block" - ugliest/fattest chick out of the click be the pickiest. That's us. If the right ones don't want our money just sign 1-year contract dudes, extend KP and take that cash into the next offseason. Being thirsty got us a broken down Amar'e. A broken down Noah. At some point we gotta adjust.

That adjustment comes from within.
We half assed a “rebuild” and are coming up short cash wise right now. Retool and Rebuild are two separate things.

At some point the entire deck must be scrubbed. Until then, bandaids presented as rebuilds continue.

If the big dogs don't want our cash then I am totally fine with extending KP, re-signing Burke, Mudiay, Hezonja and Vonleh to good value deals (if their play warrants it) and re-entering the market in the summer of 2020 or 2021. I'll take that over a big splashy move that blows up in our face.

[Clyde_Style]

What happens when jimmys body cant hold up because of thibs abuse

Up to the Knicks to make that determination but when healthy Jimmy is a heckuva basketball player. If you can bring him in with a Kyrie it's a home run IMO. You're instantly the best team in the East IMO. Especially since you'd be weakening the Celtics in the process.

Would you feel confident that either of them would hold up well over the duration of a four year contract?

[Knicksfan1992]

I still say what's gonna happen is we'll strike out on all the big names and settle on Kemba

Kemba is still really fuqqin good. Only problem I'd have with signing him is that we realistically are only going to get 2 years of his prime.

[2010]

What happens when jimmys body cant hold up because of thibs abuse

Up to the Knicks to make that determination but when healthy Jimmy is a heckuva basketball player. If you can bring him in with a Kyrie it's a home run IMO. You're instantly the best team in the East IMO. Especially since you'd be weakening the Celtics in the process.

76ers
Raptors (assuming Kawhi re-signs)
Celtics (played great without Kyrie and they are still getting Hayward back)

[2010]

I still say what's gonna happen is we'll strike out on all the big names and settle on Kemba

I don't want this to happen but I can honestly see this ::gulp::

[2010]

I still say what's gonna happen is we'll strike out on all the big names and settle on Kemba

Kemba is still really fuqqin good. Only problem I'd have with signing him is that we realistically are only going to get 2 years of his prime.

So he's not worth signing.

And that is my issue with Butler/Kyrie. They are major injury risks. You cannot reasonably expect them to perform relative to their salary over the life of the contract. I'd rather play it conservatively. KP is already injury-prone and Frank seems to be going through some growing pains with his knees/groin issues as well.

[Greenie]

not from us.

The Knicks don’t get to be all that picky.
Whoever we get will be overpaid because the big fish aren’t coming(KD, Giannis...hell, even Klay).

So it’s one of two things:

A maxed out KP being expected to carry

Or

A maxed out whoever(Butler, Kyrie) + a maxed out KP being expected to carry




Either way the rebuild is over once KP signs his max contract. This is the last joke of a “rebuild” year.

Just curious you don't think it's prudent of the Knicks brass to strike in FA before KP gets his max deal?

Kyrie/Jimmy and Kp won't be expected to carry like Melo was because we actually have young pieces around them and they would in theory have each other. You have Frank/Knox/This years pick all still in tow. If a team with that core doesn't end up a consistent winner it would be due to something other than not having enough talent...

We have KP that’s it.

Frank was bad last year. Will he get better? I damn sure hope so.

Knox hasn’t played yet.
Mitchell hasn’t played yet.

I can’t call it with them.


I would use this season to really sit back and evaluate the pieces we have. Hard decisions, because if these young guys don’t show up WTF is the actual point in maxing out ANYONE?

It’s hard to improve with a high cap. No wiggle room.

I just finished seeing this with STAT and Melo and Tyson.

I don’t want the same meal again.

[mpharris36]

He came back in April. If it wasn't for the injury, he was on pace to play over 3,000 mins last season.

he had a pretty productive playoff series. It would be a gamble but in terms of making a move would we be in a position to be choosy if say Butler wanted to come? Do you think we would say no? I doubt it.

Spoken like a man who would draft a kid with a degenerative back condition in a draft lottery.

in a sim....

not real life

[DOT]

I still say what's gonna happen is we'll strike out on all the big names and settle on Kemba

Kemba is still really fuqqin good. Only problem I'd have with signing him is that we realistically are only going to get 2 years of his prime.

I'm not saying he isn't good, cause he is although I might be a bit of a biased Uconn fan, but I'd just rather roll the money over and take a run at AD or Giannis, just let the young players we have grow

We'd definitely be a top team in the East with him, but I don't know if he's good enough to put us over the top

[Knicksfan1992]

What happens when jimmys body cant hold up because of thibs abuse

Up to the Knicks to make that determination but when healthy Jimmy is a heckuva basketball player. If you can bring him in with a Kyrie it's a home run IMO. You're instantly the best team in the East IMO. Especially since you'd be weakening the Celtics in the process.

Would you feel confident that either of them would hold up well over the duration of a four year contract?

We have no reason to believe they won't. Look I think if you're going to start nitpicking max deals and be scared of relatively minor injuries then you might as well stop trying to build a winner because you can talk yourself out of almost every basketball player out there. As far as we know none of these injuries are long-term concerns. Difference with Amare and Noah was those guys had already shown some decline due to physical ailments when we signed them and had lingering issues. Both Jimmy and Kyrie had years that were similar to their previous years of play this year. Obviously, if one of them falls off this year, then that's a major warning flag. But pretty much anyone here who doesn't have access to Kyrie's or Jimmy's medical information who tells you they are sure they will be injured going forward is just throwing chit at a wall and hoping it sticks.

[Clyde_Style]

he had a pretty productive playoff series. It would be a gamble but in terms of making a move would we be in a position to be choosy if say Butler wanted to come? Do you think we would say no? I doubt it.

Spoken like a man who would draft a kid with a degenerative back condition in a draft lottery.

in a sim....

not real life

I drank blood once (in a simulation), but not in real life

[shtolky]

What happens when jimmys body cant hold up because of thibs abuse

Up to the Knicks to make that determination but when healthy Jimmy is a heckuva basketball player. If you can bring him in with a Kyrie it's a home run IMO. You're instantly the best team in the East IMO. Especially since you'd be weakening the Celtics in the process.

76ers
Raptors (assuming Kawhi re-signs)
Celtics (played great without Kyrie and they are still getting Hayward back)

You somehow add Butler and Kyrie to KP and they are better than the Sixers. Celtics would be weaker without Kyrie as mentioned above. They played well without him but clearly were a worse team without him. Toronto remains to be seen, who knows how they will look with Kawhi. We would have our own question marks with KP's health, Frank, Knox and Robinson development, but adding those two guys makes us East contenders. Too far away and probably too far fetched to even consider.

[GONYK]

I still say what's gonna happen is we'll strike out on all the big names and settle on Kemba

Kemba is still really fuqqin good. Only problem I'd have with signing him is that we realistically are only going to get 2 years of his prime.

I'm not saying he isn't good, cause he is although I might be a bit of a biased Uconn fan, but I'd just rather roll the money over and take a run at AD or Giannis, just let the young players we have grow

We'd definitely be a top team in the East with him, but I don't know if he's good enough to put us over the top

You know the answer to this question full well

[mpharris36]

He came back in April. If it wasn't for the injury, he was on pace to play over 3,000 mins last season.

he had a pretty productive playoff series. It would be a gamble but in terms of making a move would we be in a position to be choosy if say Butler wanted to come? Do you think we would say no? I doubt it.

I think the wheels will just fall off once he hits 30

fair enough...but most FA's don't hit the market until they are in the late 20's...unless you overpay for a restricted FA. Usually any of the 2nd contract big name players will have some question marks.

I guess someone like Kevin Durant or Klay Thompson doesn't have the injury baggage that say a kyrie/kawhi/butler have...but the connection is that Kyrie and Butler want to play together so the other alternative is stay the course or try to clear two spots.

I see pros of both but when you look at our franchise if kyrie and jimmy tell the knicks clear near two maxes and we will both come do you see the knicks turning down that opportunity? I doubt it...

[2010]

Up to the Knicks to make that determination but when healthy Jimmy is a heckuva basketball player. If you can bring him in with a Kyrie it's a home run IMO. You're instantly the best team in the East IMO. Especially since you'd be weakening the Celtics in the process.

Would you feel confident that either of them would hold up well over the duration of a four year contract?

We have no reason to believe they won't. Look I think if you're going to start nitpicking max deals and be scared of relatively minor injuries then you might as well stop trying to build a winner because you can talk yourself out of almost every basketball player out there. As far as we know none of these injuries are long-term concerns. Difference with Amare and Noah was those guys had already shown some decline due to physical ailments when we signed them and had lingering issues. Both Jimmy and Kyrie had years that were similar to their previous years of play this year. Obviously, if one of them falls off this year, then that's a major warning flag. But pretty much anyone here who doesn't have access to Kyrie's or Jimmy's medical information who tells you they are sure they will be injured going forward is just throwing chit at a wall and hoping it sticks.

Amar'e was coming off a very productive year with the Suns prior to when we signed him. He wasn't declining at all. The issue was he had a prior microfracture surgery that the Suns medical staff (best in pro sports) had a maintenance program for. Then they correctly predicted he only had about 2 years tops of all-star production left in his knee.

[mpharris36]

Spoken like a man who would draft a kid with a degenerative back condition in a draft lottery.

in a sim....

not real life

I drank blood once (in a simulation), but not in real life

[Knicksfan1992]

The Knicks don’t get to be all that picky.
Whoever we get will be overpaid because the big fish aren’t coming(KD, Giannis...hell, even Klay).

So it’s one of two things:

A maxed out KP being expected to carry

Or

A maxed out whoever(Butler, Kyrie) + a maxed out KP being expected to carry




Either way the rebuild is over once KP signs his max contract. This is the last joke of a “rebuild” year.

Just curious you don't think it's prudent of the Knicks brass to strike in FA before KP gets his max deal?

Kyrie/Jimmy and Kp won't be expected to carry like Melo was because we actually have young pieces around them and they would in theory have each other. You have Frank/Knox/This years pick all still in tow. If a team with that core doesn't end up a consistent winner it would be due to something other than not having enough talent...

We have KP that’s it.

Frank was bad last year. Will he get better? I damn sure hope so.

Knox hasn’t played yet.
Mitchell hasn’t played yet.

I can’t call it with them.


I would use this season to really sit back and evaluate the pieces we have. Hard decisions, because if these young guys don’t show up WTF is the actual point in maxing out ANYONE?

It’s hard to improve with a high cap. No wiggle room.

I just finished seeing this with STAT and Melo and Tyson.

I don’t want the same meal again.

I definitely agree that this year should be strictly about evaluation. We need to find out if Frank can be a primary ball handler or not. Or if Kevin Knox will be a legit scorer at the NBA level.

I think this era is way different than the STAT and Melo era. We gave up too many decent players to get Melo in here only to combine him with the ticking time bomb that was Amare's knees.

We have way more hedges now that if a max player were to falter here such as Amare then we can still contend IMO

[Clyde_Style]

Up to the Knicks to make that determination but when healthy Jimmy is a heckuva basketball player. If you can bring him in with a Kyrie it's a home run IMO. You're instantly the best team in the East IMO. Especially since you'd be weakening the Celtics in the process.

Would you feel confident that either of them would hold up well over the duration of a four year contract?

We have no reason to believe they won't. Look I think if you're going to start nitpicking max deals and be scared of relatively minor injuries then you might as well stop trying to build a winner because you can talk yourself out of almost every basketball player out there. As far as we know none of these injuries are long-term concerns. Difference with Amare and Noah was those guys had already shown some decline due to physical ailments when we signed them and had lingering issues. Both Jimmy and Kyrie had years that were similar to their previous years of play this year. Obviously, if one of them falls off this year, then that's a major warning flag. But pretty much anyone here who doesn't have access to Kyrie's or Jimmy's medical information who tells you they are sure they will be injured going forward is just throwing chit at a wall and hoping it sticks.

Look, you're calling the board idiots, they're not necessarily minor injuries and I'm not nitpicking. They're concerns. Valid ones. That neither you nor I can know the full truth of definitively either way.

I'll step out of this convo now and leave it to the professionals I hope are on our staff to make the right call and not hand out deals to guys who cannot fulfill them.