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Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks"

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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#221 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:15 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Context wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:forgive me for the delay- its been a long week for me...
i dont fully get your point
my point is butler and irving are way to risky and even if those guys reamin productive and healthy they dont put us in a position to beat GS.


honestly

be patient meaning what?
meaning, stop deluding ourselves by taking risks that dont put us in a position to genuinely challenge for a chip....

This same summer KP is getting maxed out
so - that means we should gamble so we dont miss a window of maxing out our cap ability- you dont compound a
current problem by adding more- that will ultimately set you back.


are you suggesting if we simply sit by and let Frank, KP and Knox develop without adding max free agents along side were actually going to get somewhere? dont forget money mitch...yes I am and regardless of what our young guys become by 2021 we will have cap room available assuming that we manage our cap properly going forward...

I dont see Frank becoming his best unless he's playing with a Kyrie
If frank needs Kyrie to become his best then I want him traded...I believe he doesnt need anythng but an opportunity and belief in his ability to become his best...
I dont see KP becoming his best unless he's playing with other all star caliber players-
great players dont need other great players to realize their greatness - they need other great player to become a great team and become champions- thers a difference...
I dont know what to expect for Knox and Robinson until they actually play but they are far from sure bet franchise players
agreed but they have the most potential that Ive seen from knick rookie outside of KP in decades...


I think a lot of people look at Phily and see only the bright side
I always saw hinkies vision from day one. what philly has become today - i saw from the very beginning...

that is a franchise who missed more than they hit. they tanked for ages and basically got three players of value out of several top 3 picks. Embed and Smimmons and Saric and perhaps covington. thats not a high % of return for all those picks

"tanked for ages"? come on nolayup...they played the process they way any rebuilding franchise should-and they were successful at it- ...

meanwhile we have 3 lottery picks on this team - not including all the cast aways we've picked up - and Patience to me sounds like expectation of stardom from them- no -not at all...its essentially taking a page out of phillies book...


personally I see KP as a star, Frank as a supporting player and Knox as a great 3rd option with the potential for some all star level play- I disagree...KP can be a franchise level player-frank has all star potential and so does knox- not to mention, knox also has
the clutch gene BUT they all have to put the work in....


IMO you need to swing with guys like Kyrie and Butler - or preferably Kawhi and Kyrie - because that gets you from potentially good to actually good
after all of this suffering I just cant understand any knick kfan who is ok with "actually good". I have no interest mediocrity- if you have get me KD next year then Im all for it- anyone else is treadmill and a waste of cap space and financial resources....

I get your points but I dont fully agree

I totally understand the issue with giving max money to kyrie - a player with major injury history and limited defense or passing - but he is the best player available to us unless Kawhi or Durant show some interest.

Butler I dont accept the injury or Thib-years scare. He's always been healthy and productive on both ends. we would be lucky to have such a player.

I personally dont see our best chance of reaching the finals and a title as sitting on young talent and hoping they develop

KP is gonna need to be kept and if we are maxing him we should be looking at spending the remaining cap that same summer to max his potential, IMO

but assume we dont and KP stays and Frank develops and Knox and Robinson look like studs.
best possible case.

Were still not getting anywhere until we develop a winning culture

the east is wide open
Boston, Phily and Toronto are the only good teams. We have the chance to become one and overtake those guys before Chi or whoever else does.


Id prefer to land Durant and Butler but if we can get Kyrie as a free agent I think we have to take the risk


Bolded is a key point that I think many people are overlooking... East became a lot more winnable after the cyborg that is Lebron left. If you have a chance to put yourself in that elite 3-4 teams in the East you have to put yourself there. It's part of the reason that I think the Raptors swung for the fences with Kawhi.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#222 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:35 pm

Context wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Context wrote:this deadline and then next summer will be the true test if our front office has evolved from mediocrity! "Butler- 2018 -missing -meniscus" at 30 million per? "Kyrie- Amare-Stat waiting to happen 2019" at 30 million per? whats wrong with some of you ? stop settling and dig deep and connect with your ability to be patient- PLEASE....

forgive me for the delay- its been a long week for me...
i dont fully get your point
my point is butler and irving are way to risky and even if those guys reamin productive and healthy they dont put us in a position to beat GS.


honestly

be patient meaning what?
meaning, stop deluding ourselves by taking risks that dont put us in a position to genuinely challenge for a chip....

This same summer KP is getting maxed out
so - that means we should gamble so we dont miss a window of maxing out our cap ability- you dont compound a
current problem by adding more- that will ultimately set you back.


are you suggesting if we simply sit by and let Frank, KP and Knox develop without adding max free agents along side were actually going to get somewhere? dont forget money mitch...yes I am and regardless of what our young guys become by 2021 we will have cap room available assuming that we manage our cap properly going forward...

I dont see Frank becoming his best unless he's playing with a Kyrie
If frank needs Kyrie to become his best then I want him traded...I believe he doesnt need anythng but an opportunity and belief in his ability to become his best...
I dont see KP becoming his best unless he's playing with other all star caliber players-
great players dont need other great players to realize their greatness - they need other great player to become a great team and become champions- thers a difference...
I dont know what to expect for Knox and Robinson until they actually play but they are far from sure bet franchise players
agreed but they have the most potential that Ive seen from knick rookie outside of KP in decades...


I think a lot of people look at Phily and see only the bright side
I always saw hinkies vision from day one. what philly has become today - i saw from the very beginning...

that is a franchise who missed more than they hit. they tanked for ages and basically got three players of value out of several top 3 picks. Embed and Smimmons and Saric and perhaps covington. thats not a high % of return for all those picks

"tanked for ages"? come on nolayup...they played the process they way any rebuilding franchise should-and they were successful at it- ...

meanwhile we have 3 lottery picks on this team - not including all the cast aways we've picked up - and Patience to me sounds like expectation of stardom from them- no -not at all...its essentially taking a page out of phillies book...


personally I see KP as a star, Frank as a supporting player and Knox as a great 3rd option with the potential for some all star level play- I disagree...KP can be a franchise level player-frank has all star potential and so does knox- not to mention, knox also has
the clutch gene BUT they all have to put the work in....


IMO you need to swing with guys like Kyrie and Butler - or preferably Kawhi and Kyrie - because that gets you from potentially good to actually good
after all of this suffering I just cant understand any knick kfan who is ok with "actually good". I have no interest mediocrity- if you have get me KD next year then Im all for it- anyone else is treadmill and a waste of cap space and financial resources....


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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#223 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:37 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
I'm not giving up Frank. I dunno, man. I think I'd still rather stay the course. I feel like we're pushing it too fast by making 2019 the summer to make our move. I want that one last lottery pick and then see what this group looks like. I'd like to put this off until at least 2020.

Yeah, I know, I got to see both championships and you youngins didn't. But this is where patience is most important. Now if KD wants to come here? Great. Sign him up. But I'm not gutting the roster for any of these cats.


I get it. Totally valid opinion. Not one I agree with but you wouldn't be wrong building a roster that way...


well, if you don't go 2019 then next stop 2021.


I'm fine with, if that's the case. In fact, that's even better bc then our high lottery pick in 2019 will have had a year under his belt. That's when will be ready. #2021
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#224 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:40 pm

Here are the assets I'm willing to move now:

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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#225 » by Sark » Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:40 pm

So if the Knicks win around 25 games or so, are Butler and Kyrie really gonna leave winning teams to join a bottom feeder?
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#226 » by Dr. Detfink » Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:41 pm

I mean, Kawhi Leonard is going to be an unrestricted free agent after he's done smoking weed with Drake in Toronto. The Knicks will get a GOOD look at how well he's moving.

They can make a move on him before Butler and Kyrie. Why? We KNOW Leonard raises every one's game around him. Also think of the positionless line up possibilities. We live in an age where Ben Simmons is a 6'10" point guard.

There is no reason why the Knicks should feel as pressured as they did when Melo wanted to come to the Knicks.

All of these players have reached their ceiling. Let's find out what the Knicks got before shopping for the Lexus.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#227 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:42 pm

Sark wrote:So if the Knicks win around 25 games or so, are Butler and Kyrie really gonna leave winning teams to join a bottom feeder?


Maybe, if KP comes back strong, Knox looks like a star, and Frank, Mitch, Trier looks like they're making strides this year.

The question is why we would.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#228 » by Sark » Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:59 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Sark wrote:So if the Knicks win around 25 games or so, are Butler and Kyrie really gonna leave winning teams to join a bottom feeder?


Maybe, if KP comes back strong, Knox looks like a star, and Frank, Mitch, Trier looks like they're making strides this year.

The question is why we would.



What reason does KP have to come back and play on his rookie contract? What if he gets hurt again? It's not worth it for him to come back to a team that is out of the playoffs, and take the chance of getting hurt again.

Kevin Knox might be a star one day, but he still will only be 19 years old during the season. Here's the list of players in NBA history that played at 19 years old.

http://bkref.com/tiny/I5Ry7

How many of those players actually led their team to the playoffs. Even Lebron James couldn't do it for 2 whole years, not just 1. The ones who actually did do it, had lots of help, which the Knicks don't have. If anyone really thinks that these young kids are gonna make the Knicks a contender in year 1, well I got a bridge to sell you.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#229 » by cgf » Thu Aug 9, 2018 8:06 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
You know what's fair to compare to re: GS?

They built a championship team without signing one free agent max cat. KD joined them later so is irrelevant.


What's your point? I've been saying don't trade the core pieces and future draft picks because I want us to build a nucleus through the draft. Adding a free agent or two that could help take us over the top should still be an option

KP
Knox
Frank
Mitchell
2019 Pick

That's the homegrown nucleus

You're saying that if we added a superstar on a max deal to that core that it would somehow be a bad thing?


It was a point directed to the thread as a whole, not just your post, so it was a piggyback comment.

It felt relevant to point out there is more than one model for building a championship team and it does not always include signing a max cat in free agency.

It appears sometimes in these threads the majority thinks that is the ONLY way things can work out successfully and I believe they are wrong to assume that.

That is all


It's not a prerequisite, but that doesn't mean it would hurt. Personally, I think we're likely to be a playoff caliber team next year with or without a max FA...provided KP makes a full recovery...so reinforcements could be huge for the young core's future development. Whether it's a superstar like KD or Kyrie, a top 15 player like Jimmy, or just a fringe allstar PG like Kemba on a short term deal.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#230 » by Context » Thu Aug 9, 2018 8:28 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
Context wrote: after all of this suffering I just cant understand any knick kfan who is ok with "actually good". I have no interest mediocrity- if you have get me KD next year then Im all for it- anyone else is treadmill and a waste of cap space and financial resources....

I get your points but I dont fully agree

I totally understand the issue with giving max money to kyrie - a player with major injury history and limited defense or passing - but he is the best player available to us unless Kawhi or Durant show some interest.

Butler I dont accept the injury or Thib-years scare. He's always been healthy and productive on both ends. we would be lucky to have such a player.

I personally dont see our best chance of reaching the finals and a title as sitting on young talent and hoping they develop

KP is gonna need to be kept and if we are maxing him we should be looking at spending the remaining cap that same summer to max his potential, IMO

but assume we dont and KP stays and Frank develops and Knox and Robinson look like studs.
best possible case.

Were still not getting anywhere until we develop a winning culture

the east is wide open
Boston, Phily and Toronto are the only good teams. We have the chance to become one and overtake those guys before Chi or whoever else does.


Id prefer to land Durant and Butler but if we can get Kyrie as a free agent I think we have to take the risk


Bolded is a key point that I think many people are overlooking... East became a lot more winnable after the cyborg that is Lebron left. If you have a chance to put yourself in that elite 3-4 teams in the East you have to put yourself there. It's part of the reason that I think the Raptors swung for the fences with Kawhi.

I didnt miss that but again, if we cant win it all - I have no interest in being a top team in the east- when I can just be patient -build slowly and but my franchise in a position to be "GS" or "Philly".
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#231 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 9, 2018 8:29 pm

Sark wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Sark wrote:So if the Knicks win around 25 games or so, are Butler and Kyrie really gonna leave winning teams to join a bottom feeder?


Maybe, if KP comes back strong, Knox looks like a star, and Frank, Mitch, Trier looks like they're making strides this year.

The question is why we would.



What reason does KP have to come back and play on his rookie contract? What if he gets hurt again? It's not worth it for him to come back to a team that is out of the playoffs, and take the chance of getting hurt again.

Kevin Knox might be a star one day, but he still will only be 19 years old during the season. Here's the list of players in NBA history that played at 19 years old.

http://bkref.com/tiny/I5Ry7

How many of those players actually led their team to the playoffs. Even Lebron James couldn't do it for 2 whole years, not just 1. The ones who actually did do it, had lots of help, which the Knicks don't have. If anyone really thinks that these young kids are gonna make the Knicks a contender in year 1, well I got a bridge to sell you.


Hey, I'm all in on being patient. 100% I'm not looking to make any moves next off season. I just want to make some trades involving Lee, Mudiay, Lance, et al. Though I don't see KP sitting out the year. I'll make you a sig bet on that.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#232 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Aug 9, 2018 8:34 pm

Context wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:I get your points but I dont fully agree

I totally understand the issue with giving max money to kyrie - a player with major injury history and limited defense or passing - but he is the best player available to us unless Kawhi or Durant show some interest.

Butler I dont accept the injury or Thib-years scare. He's always been healthy and productive on both ends. we would be lucky to have such a player.

I personally dont see our best chance of reaching the finals and a title as sitting on young talent and hoping they develop

KP is gonna need to be kept and if we are maxing him we should be looking at spending the remaining cap that same summer to max his potential, IMO

but assume we dont and KP stays and Frank develops and Knox and Robinson look like studs.
best possible case.

Were still not getting anywhere until we develop a winning culture

the east is wide open
Boston, Phily and Toronto are the only good teams. We have the chance to become one and overtake those guys before Chi or whoever else does.


Id prefer to land Durant and Butler but if we can get Kyrie as a free agent I think we have to take the risk


Bolded is a key point that I think many people are overlooking... East became a lot more winnable after the cyborg that is Lebron left. If you have a chance to put yourself in that elite 3-4 teams in the East you have to put yourself there. It's part of the reason that I think the Raptors swung for the fences with Kawhi.

I didnt miss that but again, if we cant win it all - I have no interest in being a top team in the east- when I can just be patient -build slowly and but my franchise in a position to be "GS" or "Philly".


Don't think those are realistic models to follow for us. Golden State got extremely lucky in a multitude of ways. Don't feel like going through all of it but yeah they are an anomaly. They're truly a once in a lifetime franchise. Sixers had almost all of their top picks sit out a year (embiid even sat out 2/Dario stayed overseas for longer too) which ensured continuous tanking under a more advantageous lottery system... With lottery rules changing and the Knicks seemingly drafting well it doesn't seem realistic to extreme tank for 5 years especially since you will have to start paying these guys soon.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#233 » by Context » Thu Aug 9, 2018 9:23 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Context wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Bolded is a key point that I think many people are overlooking... East became a lot more winnable after the cyborg that is Lebron left. If you have a chance to put yourself in that elite 3-4 teams in the East you have to put yourself there. It's part of the reason that I think the Raptors swung for the fences with Kawhi.

I didnt miss that but again, if we cant win it all - I have no interest in being a top team in the east- when I can just be patient -build slowly and but my franchise in a position to be "GS" or "Philly".


Don't think those are realistic models to follow for us. Golden State got extremely lucky in a multitude of ways. Don't feel like going through all of it but yeah they are an anomaly. They're truly a once in a lifetime franchise. Sixers had almost all of their top picks sit out a year (embiid even sat out 2/Dario stayed overseas for longer too) which ensured continuous tanking under a more advantageous lottery system... With lottery rules changing and the Knicks seemingly drafting well it doesn't seem realistic to extreme tank for 5 years especially since you will have to start paying these guys soon.

the point that many you guys overlook is the value in giving yourself a chance vs wasting time and resources being a treadmill team...
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#234 » by BallSacBounce » Thu Aug 9, 2018 9:24 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Here are the assets I'm willing to move now:

Lee
THJ
Kanter
LFT
Mudiay
Burke
Hicks
Baker


Assets?
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#235 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Aug 9, 2018 9:25 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
I get it. Totally valid opinion. Not one I agree with but you wouldn't be wrong building a roster that way...


well, if you don't go 2019 then next stop 2021.


I'm fine with, if that's the case. In fact, that's even better bc then I'll high lottery pick in 2019 will have had a year under his belt. That's when will be ready. #2021


i get that perspective. even if we cut noah we still may not spend 2019 money like that. the $6.5m probably doesn't hurt 2021 too much.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#236 » by BallSacBounce » Thu Aug 9, 2018 9:28 pm

Sark wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Sark wrote:So if the Knicks win around 25 games or so, are Butler and Kyrie really gonna leave winning teams to join a bottom feeder?


Maybe, if KP comes back strong, Knox looks like a star, and Frank, Mitch, Trier looks like they're making strides this year.

The question is why we would.



What reason does KP have to come back and play on his rookie contract? What if he gets hurt again? It's not worth it for him to come back to a team that is out of the playoffs, and take the chance of getting hurt again.

Kevin Knox might be a star one day, but he still will only be 19 years old during the season. Here's the list of players in NBA history that played at 19 years old.

http://bkref.com/tiny/I5Ry7

How many of those players actually led their team to the playoffs. Even Lebron James couldn't do it for 2 whole years, not just 1. The ones who actually did do it, had lots of help, which the Knicks don't have. If anyone really thinks that these young kids are gonna make the Knicks a contender in year 1, well I got a bridge to sell you.

He's like, getting paid this year to play. That's why.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#237 » by Sark » Thu Aug 9, 2018 9:48 pm

BallSacBounce wrote:
Sark wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Maybe, if KP comes back strong, Knox looks like a star, and Frank, Mitch, Trier looks like they're making strides this year.

The question is why we would.



What reason does KP have to come back and play on his rookie contract? What if he gets hurt again? It's not worth it for him to come back to a team that is out of the playoffs, and take the chance of getting hurt again.

Kevin Knox might be a star one day, but he still will only be 19 years old during the season. Here's the list of players in NBA history that played at 19 years old.

http://bkref.com/tiny/I5Ry7

How many of those players actually led their team to the playoffs. Even Lebron James couldn't do it for 2 whole years, not just 1. The ones who actually did do it, had lots of help, which the Knicks don't have. If anyone really thinks that these young kids are gonna make the Knicks a contender in year 1, well I got a bridge to sell you.

He's like, getting paid this year to play. That's why.



Ever hear of Kawhi Leonard? He got paid $18m last year, had the doctors tell him he was ok, and still sat out. After watching Isaiah Thomas play injured, and cost himself $100m by playing hurt and re-injuring himself, players are being more cautious. I seriously doubt Kristaps Porzingis' brother will advise him to rush back to a team that out of the playoffs by January, and risk another injury.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#238 » by BallSacBounce » Thu Aug 9, 2018 10:11 pm

Sark wrote:
BallSacBounce wrote:
Sark wrote:

What reason does KP have to come back and play on his rookie contract? What if he gets hurt again? It's not worth it for him to come back to a team that is out of the playoffs, and take the chance of getting hurt again.

Kevin Knox might be a star one day, but he still will only be 19 years old during the season. Here's the list of players in NBA history that played at 19 years old.

http://bkref.com/tiny/I5Ry7

How many of those players actually led their team to the playoffs. Even Lebron James couldn't do it for 2 whole years, not just 1. The ones who actually did do it, had lots of help, which the Knicks don't have. If anyone really thinks that these young kids are gonna make the Knicks a contender in year 1, well I got a bridge to sell you.

He's like, getting paid this year to play. That's why.



Ever hear of Kawhi Leonard? He got paid $18m last year, had the doctors tell him he was ok, and still sat out. After watching Isaiah Thomas play injured, and cost himself $100m by playing hurt and re-injuring himself, players are being more cautious. I seriously doubt Kristaps Porzingis' brother will advise him to rush back to a team that out of the playoffs by January, and risk another injury.

Then you should forfeit your pay.
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#239 » by NoLayupRule » Thu Aug 9, 2018 10:24 pm

Sark wrote:
BallSacBounce wrote:
Sark wrote:

What reason does KP have to come back and play on his rookie contract? What if he gets hurt again? It's not worth it for him to come back to a team that is out of the playoffs, and take the chance of getting hurt again.

Kevin Knox might be a star one day, but he still will only be 19 years old during the season. Here's the list of players in NBA history that played at 19 years old.

http://bkref.com/tiny/I5Ry7

How many of those players actually led their team to the playoffs. Even Lebron James couldn't do it for 2 whole years, not just 1. The ones who actually did do it, had lots of help, which the Knicks don't have. If anyone really thinks that these young kids are gonna make the Knicks a contender in year 1, well I got a bridge to sell you.

He's like, getting paid this year to play. That's why.



Ever hear of Kawhi Leonard? He got paid $18m last year, had the doctors tell him he was ok, and still sat out. After watching Isaiah Thomas play injured, and cost himself $100m by playing hurt and re-injuring himself, players are being more cautious. I seriously doubt Kristaps Porzingis' brother will advise him to rush back to a team that out of the playoffs by January, and risk another injury.
good

I hope not

The best thing for this team would be to have him sit out until March and come back fully healthy and dominant
We can move players and Loose as many games as happens naturally while we develop.
Then go into next summer with cap space, another top pick and a Kp that has shown himself back to form

Coming back in December is a terrible idea long term
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Re: Joe Budden: "Jimmy Butler wants to join the Knicks" 

Post#240 » by cgmw » Thu Aug 9, 2018 10:31 pm

DLTGWH wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
jimmy butler alone is not worth it to me.

kd, kawhi, and kyrie are the only players i'd consider using this cap space on solo. in that order. only because of kyrie's extensive injury history despite his relative youth.


i'm of the same feeling. butler on his own is pointless. with kyrie, kp, the young kids we have and a likely top 5 pick. you're basically built to probably be the best team in the east next year. how we accomplish getting him and kyrie i have no idea. not unless you use a bunch of protected future firsts.


Signing Jimmy Butler's with others or by himself is hardly pointless. A 28 (soon to be 29) year old all nba defensive stopper who averages an efficient 22+ppg is a great player. And if you've watched the knicks over the last 20 years they've had very few great players.

At the end of the day, either KP, Knox, Mitchell Robinson or this years #1 are going to need to be that alpha #1/#2 along with Jimmy Butler (if they are so fortunate to be in the position to sign him) to become a good team in the East.

And isnt having a "good team" with good, home grown nucleus, the goal? Not sure why its the Golden State Warriors or bust? If none of KP, Knox, Mitchell or this years #1 pan out, then Knicks are DOA anyways


Butler is a good consolation prize if you’re hedging for a second star, but at what cost?

Frank and a top 5 pick?

Knicks don’t exactly have a history of shrewd trade negotiation. It would take a lot to get both Butler and a second Max slot, and it’s hard to imagine there’d be any guarantee of signing Kyrie.

A lot will ride on how good Knox and Frank look during the first half of the season. If they play great, then management will have a ton of leverage.
"Willingly, gratefully."

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