CELTICS/KNICKS PG THREAD

[whocares1]

Simple.

Because Mudiay isn't healthy enough yet to get PG minutes over Frank

Dude Fiz already said he lets Frank decide his role on offense. It’s more like he doesn’t care enough to be the lead guard when Baker is in.

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[HEZI]

which should be an immediate firing of mills/perry right? Because we could have done both without stretching Noah.

No because you would have never had a chance to even be a player in max cat free agency without doing that. They stretched Noah so they can give themselves a chance. If they can't land a max cat then we really can't blame them for not having the cap space to do so. This way they can at least say they tried.

this isn't elementary school. I don't care if they try. Are they successful or not?

If they strike out and plan B is to lock up these guys long term they still failed. That shouldn't even be an option at this point we know what they are. If you strike out you leave the cap space open and either take on deals for picks and try again next year. But an options shouldn't be well we have no one to spend it on so lets just give all our flawed players more $$$...nope sorry that isn't a valid option.

Well you can't really see if they are successful or not unless they put themselves in position to be able to try, which is what they did.

I think locking these guys up long term would be foolish if long term means past the THJ contract. If they strike out and the best available free agents are the ones from our own team, then what happens? If they strike out in free agency and are still able to sell Porzingis on a 2020/2021 free agency plan then hey more power to them. Just hoping things don't get ugly for us if Porzingis turns 25 years old and still hasn't sniffed an NBA playoffs, which can happen either way, whether we sign free agents or don't. But I do think that our young players all need to get it together sooner than later because if in 2 years KP is still our only real quality starter then things are going to get real sour.

[HarthorneWingo]

#FckFizdale

This fcker is worse than Hornacek. We have a PR man coaching the Knicks.

[cuyankees]

It's absolutely awesome to finally see observations that myself and a few others, who got bashed and criticized, made months ago about this farce of a "rebuild", how Pills/Fiz are hoodwinking and nothing is really changing. Glad to see others are seeing through the fog and the nonsensical BS.

[god shammgod]

you can't be fully invested in giving your young players every opportunity to work and develop and also fully invested in trying to win every game. you just can't. the knicks as a franchise have often had competing purposes at play.

Would still have been OK if they want to compete and push the players do that if the youngsters were to play +28 mins and taking the vast majority of the shots and usage

that would be fine. and by the end of the season it might actually lead to more wins. but it'll be ugly at times early. we seem to not want to allow that.

[HarthorneWingo]

Dude Fiz already said he lets Frank decide his role on offense. It’s more like he doesn’t care enough to be the lead guard when Baker is in.

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I can do that. I thought this dude was an NBA coach. Now we're just letting positionless players go out and do what they want. Ok.

[HarthorneWingo]

Seems unprofessional of him. Probably picked Dot too

Wouldn’t say unprofessional, but it appears as if he’s favoring the players he might’ve helped bring in.

It is very unprofessional.

Since when do professional scouts single out players for public trashings like that?

They are supposed to do their evaluations for teams, not get into twitter beefs

Maybe he's unemployed right now, but that doesn't change anything about it being unprofessional

But he's right.

[whocares1]

This is true, but this wouldn’t be the first colossal failure of a season. Last year was bad and the year before that was worse.

we agree on all accounts here...but I thought we were told we wouldn't be "skipping" any steps.

He just doesn't like that we keep talking about it

But what do they actually mean by “skipping steps”? That’s the definition of vague and can mean anything. If management promised something specifically then we could call them out if they don’t do it.

[F N 11]

Dude Fiz already said he lets Frank decide his role on offense. It’s more like he doesn’t care enough to be the lead guard when Baker is in.

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If this is the case Frank not a point guard. Fiz literally saying let’s see who got the dog in th to demand the ball and he know damn well that’s not Frank.

[HarthorneWingo]

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If this is the case Frank not a point guard. Fiz literally saying let’s see who got the dog in th to demand the ball and he know damn well that’s not Frank.

So Frank should push Trey Burke to the wing?

[whocares1]

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If this is the case Frank not a point guard. Fiz literally saying let’s see who got the dog in th to demand the ball and he know damn well that’s not Frank.

I’d understand if you were upset if Frank wanted to play point but Burke or THjr was stopping him, but he doesn’t even have more dog than Ron Baker. Think about it. Ron Baker, a guy that might not be in the NBA next season, and Frank rather let him run the second unit. It’s no one’s fault. It’s not even Frank’s. Phil knew who he was drafting.

[GONYK]

It’s probably not the only plan but it’s a likely reality. Also regardless of whether they are here next year, they are here now. Almost everyone here agrees the minutes should go to the guys with the future but that’s not realistic. This is real life not 2k, where you can just make cold, calculated decisions like that this early. Egos and emotions have to managed. The players should develop better if everyone feels involved and valued. If they just toss the short term guys to the side why would they bother working hard during practice or worry about helping their young teammates adjust to the league?

then our front office should be fired. We aren't a good team now and paying the same guys more money to come back would be an ultimate failure.

Let me ask you this question. If the kings called up the knicks today and offered Zach Randolph and Iman Shumpert for THjr and Trey Burke...do you think our front office would accept?

No, unfortunately I don’t think they would. Mills sees some value in THJ. The window for the Knicks to be competitive in the east is way smaller than people want to admit. It’s clear to me what direction they want to go in but even though I might not fully agree there is nothing the fans can do about it. Y’all can complain but at a certain point its just endless screaming into the void.

Frank at PG
KP at Center
Reduced minutes/shots for Burke and THJ

Sure all those things would be ideal but so would winning that 1.6 billion dollar powerball.

I think you are an intelligent poster who is pretty grounded.

That has to be a depressing conclusion to reach.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I think we do realize that but it seems GO and myself and some others are getting the feeling that might not be Fiz's sytle. From the Mudiay comments early, to dubbing Burke the starter PG, to comments about guys like Vonleh and stuff. Basically we need to realize that Fiz can't "save" everyone. There needs to be a weighted focus so that this year doesn't slip by with a great opportunity to see what we have long term.'

We have a lot of young players...don't get me wrong...youngest team in the league and I love it. But contact situations do play a factor whether people want to admit it or not and that should be our focus.

Correct. There are priorities that extend beyond this season. We pissed away our year last season by giving a ton of minutes to Jack and Beasley. We lost a cost-controlled asset as a result of our commitment to Kanter.

People are expecting excitement simply because this year's Jack and Beasley are younger. In the big scheme of things, it is meaningless. They are still players who won't be here next year.

We should be laser focused on the guys who will be here long-term.

As the season progresses and we get buried under our record, I hope the shift is clear.

I hope that as well and just because the guys are 25-26 years old doesn't mean they are a long term piece because they are "young" in terms of basketball age but there contractual status still is no different than Jack/Beasley.

For example if Vonleh plays well and takes a lot of Mitch's minutes what is the end game. Vonleh will catapult this year to hopefully another contract for himself somewhere else because we wont be signing him long term.

I agree with you guys, but this goes beyond Fiz. This is how management wants to do things. They want some vets, some young guys, some guys in there prime. They want the Knicks to remain competitive and not interested in bottoming out. We never are.
Some of the guys who are 25-26 years old that we may not want to keep, management may view as keepers (Burke, Kanter, maybe even Lance). We have cleared a ton of cap space, and may use it to continue this philosophy.

Not that I agree with this strategy, but I think this is on management and not on Fiz directly. Even last year with Jack/Beasly, i blamed that more on management then Hornacek.

[Wolfgang630]

If Fiz is saying he's letting Frank show and tell him, then why Frank ain't showing up as a PG.

[mpharris36]

If Fiz is saying he's letting Frank show and tell him, then why Frank ain't showing up as a PG.

no wonder we have the lowest assist rate in the league and we probably lead in ISO's as well.

[GONYK]

If Fiz is saying he's letting Frank show and tell him, then why Frank ain't showing up as a PG.

no wonder we have the lowest assist rate in the league and we probably lead in ISO's as well.

We're 8th in the league in total ISO's

Dead last in the league in Points Per Possession on ISO's

[DOT]

If Fiz is saying he's letting Frank show and tell him, then why Frank ain't showing up as a PG.

no wonder we have the lowest assist rate in the league and we probably lead in ISO's as well.

8th in total isos, 12th in percentage of plays are isos

But dead last in points per possession, 5th worst in FG% and eFG%, and also last in score frequency

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=Score&dir=-1

So we do it a lot, though not the most in the league, but we suck at it

[mpharris36]

If Fiz is saying he's letting Frank show and tell him, then why Frank ain't showing up as a PG.

no wonder we have the lowest assist rate in the league and we probably lead in ISO's as well.

We're 8th in the league in total ISO's

Dead last in the league in Points Per Possession on ISO's

were 8th in the league in ISO's with not one player on the roster to warrant an ISO situation....

[HarthorneWingo]

If Fiz is saying he's letting Frank show and tell him, then why Frank ain't showing up as a PG.

You can't start Frank at SF with Trey as the PG and then, "Show me you want to play PG."

Fizzle gave Frank no minutes at PG against Kyrie even though Frank played well at PG against the Nets.

Fizdale can't coach.

[Wolfgang630]

If Fiz is saying he's letting Frank show and tell him, then why Frank ain't showing up as a PG.

You can't start Frank at SF with Trey as the PG and then, "Show me you want to play PG."

Fizzle gave Frank no minutes at PG against Kyrie even though Frank played well at PG against the Nets. Reward?

Then what are we arguing over? Doesn't these decisions come down to coach and player? Coach doesn't see Frank as a PG. So where do we go from here? We have to live with what Fiz wants from Frank and that's him not as the PG.