OT: Jimmy Butler to (ruin) the 76ers per Shams

[KnicksGadfly]

if you thought jimmy was jealous of KAT and wiggis wait till he gets into embiid and simmons heads

nah you can't compare KAT and Wiggins with Embiid and Simmons right now. Wiggins doesn't give a **** about the game. KAT needs to figure out defense.

[Dr. Detfink]

Knicks would have definitely have given Tim and a Baker. Knicks definitely could have let him opt out and open up some cap money. This summer its about trading for Anthony Davis and targeting Tobias Harris and Terry Rozier

The Knicks have a reputation of taking stupid deals so why would any NBA franchise do business with them unless it was to screw them over?

This team NEEDS to remain on course. This IS rebuilding. It takes YEARS. But when the Knicks stop punching themselves in the dick with unfulfilled promises, cheating the rebuild by an overpaid FA...then and only then will this team become a championship contender.

[Sark]

I take it you heard this from our great New York media people who never make shyt up right?

I mean they wanted him for the right price. Not sure why that's breaking news for you.

How many teams DON'T want Jimmy Butler? The Knicks and who else?

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/knicks-on-potential-jimmy-butler-trade-we-dont-want-to-jump-at-shiny-things/295356430

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/true-to-their-word-knicks-reportedly-havent-reached-out-to-timberwolves-about-jimmy-butler-trade/297389582

I was looking for the articles that the Knicks wanted to trade for Jimmy but couldn't find anything but i'm not a big internet guy so can you post a link or links for me please so i can see them for myself?

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jimmy-butler-trade-rumors-knicks-vow-not-to-surrender-assets-for-player-we-can-go-get-on-our-own-later/

"What we're not going to do is trade away assets to get a guy that we can go get on our own later," Mills added.

They didn't want to give up assets for a player they could sign a free agent, which is what I originally said. Of course they want him, but not for the price Minnesota wanted. If they were to accept Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas, do you really think Mills would say no? Because that's what you are implying.

[newyorker4ever]

I mean they wanted him for the right price. Not sure why that's breaking news for you.

How many teams DON'T want Jimmy Butler? The Knicks and who else?

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/knicks-on-potential-jimmy-butler-trade-we-dont-want-to-jump-at-shiny-things/295356430

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/true-to-their-word-knicks-reportedly-havent-reached-out-to-timberwolves-about-jimmy-butler-trade/297389582

I was looking for the articles that the Knicks wanted to trade for Jimmy but couldn't find anything but i'm not a big internet guy so can you post a link or links for me please so i can see them for myself?

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jimmy-butler-trade-rumors-knicks-vow-not-to-surrender-assets-for-player-we-can-go-get-on-our-own-later/

"What we're not going to do is trade away assets to get a guy that we can go get on our own later," Mills added.

They didn't want to give up assets for a player they could sign a free agent, which is what I originally said. Of course they want him, but not for the price Minnesota wanted. If they were to accept Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas, do you really think Mills would say no? Because that's what you are implying.

Well you sure did twist that one around on me. You made it sound like the Knicks were trying to trade for Jimmy or wanted to trade for him but that was never true. GEESH

[Sark]

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/knicks-on-potential-jimmy-butler-trade-we-dont-want-to-jump-at-shiny-things/295356430

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/true-to-their-word-knicks-reportedly-havent-reached-out-to-timberwolves-about-jimmy-butler-trade/297389582

I was looking for the articles that the Knicks wanted to trade for Jimmy but couldn't find anything but i'm not a big internet guy so can you post a link or links for me please so i can see them for myself?

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jimmy-butler-trade-rumors-knicks-vow-not-to-surrender-assets-for-player-we-can-go-get-on-our-own-later/

"What we're not going to do is trade away assets to get a guy that we can go get on our own later," Mills added.

They didn't want to give up assets for a player they could sign a free agent, which is what I originally said. Of course they want him, but not for the price Minnesota wanted. If they were to accept Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas, do you really think Mills would say no? Because that's what you are implying.

Well you sure did twist that one around on me. You made it sound like the Knicks were trying to trade for Jimmy or wanted to trade for him but that was never true. GEESH

No I didn't. Go back and read the original post. I never once said the Knicks were making offers for him. But that doesn't mean they didn't want him.

Mills said "What we're not going to do is trade away assets to get a guy that we can go get on our own later,", which has an implication that they want the player, but are unwilling to give up what the other team wants. Not sure if English is your first language or not, but that nuanced implication is in there. He does not need to literally say "we want Butler" or "we don't want Butler" for him to convey his thoughts.

[HarthorneWingo]

Also, I dont see why Minny didn't take Miami's offer

Because Riley hung up on Thibs when Thibs got greedy and wanted a sweetener on top of the icing. Riley schooled Thibs on negotiations. Gotta respect Riley for taking a stand.

[cgmw]

General Q for all you League geeks out there --

For 100 all-star players in a contract year, how many A) re-sign with their original team; B) sign with a new team in free agency; or 3) force a trade in the year preceding FA?

I'm guessing 80/10/10; meaning it's just as important to trade for an AS free agent in the preceding winter as it is to sign one outright in the summer.

[HarthorneWingo]

This dude's the ultimate cancer.

He'll be okay initially but he'll wear on everyone.

I can see him fighting with Embiid for sure.

I think that could be a problem too. If that's the case, then Philly simply won't resign him and will use that cap space for someone else. This is an audition for Butler. If he continues to act like a fool with the Sixers, then not only will he lose out on the extra contract money I assume he would get if he re-signed with Philly but he would also be screwing himself for free agency generally across the league. What team would want to spend beaucoup bucks on a player who now has solidified his reputation in the league as a cancer with three teams in a row?

So he better get his act together. If I'm his agent, I'd read him the riot act. But, as I understand it, Butler - and this is to his credit - survived a very rough childhood to get to where he is today. I have to believe that there are some socialization issues here. I'm just speculating based on that limited info. Many of these guys are very immature. This agent stuff looks glamorous but I wouldn't be caught dead doing that kind of work. These guys would drive me crazy. It's very cut throat. I guess that's why some of them are now making moves to the management side and at a very very steep salary cut.

[HarthorneWingo]

40 million a year for butler at the age of 30 has disaster written all over it

gotta realize too that after this summer philly is gonna pay embiid so this was their summer to spend money. they couldn't afford to not get anyone again. so they do this and still have some money to round out the team.

Yeah, Philly is reaching the point where money doesn't matter and you basically have to make those "disasterous-level" financial commitments or rebuild. All teams on the come-up hit that decision at some point.

I'm not arguing that the back end of the Butler re-up doesn't have a good chance at being awful, just that the money/disaster concern becomes almost irrelevant with a team in their position (already winning, need another lynchpin, young (injury prone) players on the verge of becoming expensive, and cap space available).

If I were the Sixers, I'd let Butler's contract come off the books and go heavy after Middleton. He's be a great fit on that team.

[bleedblue3303]

This is why I think we need to wait another year before looking at big money free agents. We still need 2 very high draft picks. to have cheaper salary rookies to surround around the big money guys. Take on chandler Parsons contract trade THJ and LEe. Let everyone come off the books in 2 years after 2 top 3 picks hopefully.

Then Go hunting

[thebuzzardman]

This is why I think we need to wait another year before looking at big money free agents. We still need 2 very high draft picks. to have cheaper salary rookies to surround around the big money guys. Take on chandler Parsons contract trade THJ and LEe. Let everyone come off the books in 2 years after 2 top 3 picks hopefully.

Then Go hunting

I'd mostly agree with this. I mean, I guess I don't mind they'll have space for next year, just in case. But it can't be a situation like in the past where the team attached an asset to get rid of Jeffries. And now CLee is like Jeffries, meaning, if they do something dumb to move that contract to "get in" on next years FA class. If the Knicks can move his contract and not take back years/$, sure. Otherwise, the plan will have to be two offseasons instead of one.

Agree with you though. Always felt like 2 off seasons away anyway. It's why the losses are so important.

Another tank game coming up today, vs Orlando. Very important. 2 game tank swing. Team has already lost valuable tank ground to Atlanta and Dallas

[Rasho Brezec]

Muscala's family dinners are going to be fun.

[br7knicks]

I'm actually on the other side. for a few month rental of Butler you get 2 nice long term pieces on good contracts.

For what Minnesota wanted (not 4 non lottery 1st rounders spread out). Its not bad return.

Philly seems kinda desperate with this move IMO. And Butler is not easy to get along with.

Minus what he's done the last few weeks, I was a big fan of his - one of the few players I like.

He's defense first, and always plays like he has something to prove, rather than assume he's great and can get away with whatever he wants.

But the last few weeks has made me change my mind. I still like that he's defense first, and he wants to push that on guys. But he doesn't realize the new mentality with players coming up is that defense is no longer a thing. Pride in defense is embarrassing. And to demand that of young players is not okay anymore. He shouldn't be on a young team because butler can't lead, and he'll get frustrated with the young kids' mentalities of defense is overrated.

He'd like guys like frank and Mitchell tho.

[br7knicks]

Knicks would have definitely have given Tim and a Baker. Knicks definitely could have let him opt out and open up some cap money. This summer its about trading for Anthony Davis and targeting Tobias Harris and Terry Rozier

The Knicks have a reputation of taking stupid deals so why would any NBA franchise do business with them unless it was to screw them over?

This team NEEDS to remain on course. This IS rebuilding. It takes YEARS. But when the Knicks stop punching themselves in the dick with unfulfilled promises, cheating the rebuild by an overpaid FA...then and only then will this team become a championship contender.

That's why stretching Noah was so perplexing. Wait the 2 years.

This dumb, mother **** franchise, most of the time, leaves me dumbfounded.

2 steps forward, 24 steps back. At least now they only take 18 steps back.

[newyorker4ever]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jimmy-butler-trade-rumors-knicks-vow-not-to-surrender-assets-for-player-we-can-go-get-on-our-own-later/


They didn't want to give up assets for a player they could sign a free agent, which is what I originally said. Of course they want him, but not for the price Minnesota wanted. If they were to accept Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas, do you really think Mills would say no? Because that's what you are implying.

Well you sure did twist that one around on me. You made it sound like the Knicks were trying to trade for Jimmy or wanted to trade for him but that was never true. GEESH

No I didn't. Go back and read the original post. I never once said the Knicks were making offers for him. But that doesn't mean they didn't want him.

Mills said "What we're not going to do is trade away assets to get a guy that we can go get on our own later,", which has an implication that they want the player, but are unwilling to give up what the other team wants. Not sure if English is your first language or not, but that nuanced implication is in there. He does not need to literally say "we want Butler" or "we don't want Butler" for him to convey his thoughts.

Key word is Implication.....i got it now...lol

[HarthorneWingo]

This is why I think we need to wait another year before looking at big money free agents. We still need 2 very high draft picks. to have cheaper salary rookies to surround around the big money guys. Take on chandler Parsons contract trade THJ and LEe. Let everyone come off the books in 2 years after 2 top 3 picks hopefully.

Then Go hunting

I would’ve simply “And1-ed” this comment but this app doesn’t have this feature.

Just because we have some money in our pocket doesn’t mean that we should - or feel compelled to - spend it just yet.

Before we make any decisions about anything, I want to see KP back on the court to evaluate not on his own physical condition in real NBA competition but to see what the chemistry looks like. Only then will we know how to spend our cap space wisely.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Ray Williams]

This is why I think we need to wait another year before looking at big money free agents. We still need 2 very high draft picks. to have cheaper salary rookies to surround around the big money guys. Take on chandler Parsons contract trade THJ and LEe. Let everyone come off the books in 2 years after 2 top 3 picks hopefully.

Then Go hunting

I would’ve simply “And1-ed” this comment but this app doesn’t have this feature.

Just because we have some money in our pocket doesn’t mean that we should - or feel compelled to - spend it just yet.

Before we make any decisions about anything, I want to see KP back on the court to evaluate not on his own physical condition in real NBA competition but to see what the chemistry looks like. Only then will we know how to spend our cap space wisely.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

The problem with waiting 2 years is that KP is going to get that max extension, how much cap will we have left after that? I’m not sure, haven’t done the math.

[thebuzzardman]

Another team in our division has gotten stronger, we coming tho

Knicks building up towards that 4 year run of 8th seed first round exits and 6 years of cap hell after

[HarthorneWingo]

This is why I think we need to wait another year before looking at big money free agents. We still need 2 very high draft picks. to have cheaper salary rookies to surround around the big money guys. Take on chandler Parsons contract trade THJ and LEe. Let everyone come off the books in 2 years after 2 top 3 picks hopefully.

Then Go hunting

I would’ve simply “And1-ed” this comment but this app doesn’t have this feature.

Just because we have some money in our pocket doesn’t mean that we should - or feel compelled to - spend it just yet.

Before we make any decisions about anything, I want to see KP back on the court to evaluate not on his own physical condition in real NBA competition but to see what the chemistry looks like. Only then will we know how to spend our cap space wisely.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

The problem with waiting 2 years is that KP is going to get that max extension, how much cap will we have left after that? I’m not sure, haven’t done the math.

I think the way it goes is that you first sign free agents from other teams and then you can sign your own free agents and there's not luxury tax implications? I'm not really sure. GONYK and others are the "capologists" around here.

[Synciere]

Read on Twitter

But we won’t tank so we can look good to these same FA’s...

I love that Butler is in PHI. Short of a meltdown, they’re throwing him a 5 year deal.

Odds are we flop big time and overpay big time - my guess is for Harris.

Can’t wait

I wouldn’t really be opposed to Harris except we just drafted a Harris in Knox. We need playmaking much more than another scoring forward.