Mudiay: Keeper or Nah?

[Jeff Van Gully]

no one would suggest frank single-handedly makes a good defensive team. and i am not suggesting his offensive shortcomings aren't important or siginificant. they most certainly are.

i am speaking to greenie's apparent dismissal of defense to diminish frank.

but to your response... i don't know where you got a miami championship with a 17th-ranked DE. i would love to see it. and talking about today's contemporary offensive explosion, i'm really looking at the past 7 years or so.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/defensive-efficiency?date=2013-06-20

edit: i haven't done all the research, but i'd venture that since 2010 phoenix would be the only outlier to even make a conference finals without a top-10 DE.

Your own chart shows Cleveland last year.

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You beat me, but I didn’t even look at the stats.

Off the top of my head they came to mind. A big story for that team the last few years was their mediocre at best defense.

LeBron stopped playing defense awhile ago.

POR- again, i hadn't looked and was guessing. my original point was champs. but then i widened to conference finalists without looking. and that's still one. (wow. 29. that right there should make the case for lebron GOAT. sheesh.)

it's not my chart. but on that chart the 06 heat team had a top-10 DE too.

edit: as for the one-way player discussion, of course teams need firepower. but there are teams with one-way players in the defensive direction too. such players still have value. and at worst, i believe frank is a one-way defensive player. i think it's way too early to completely close the book on his offensive potential.

but now we've turned a mudiay thread into a frank argument. like we do with everything here.

mudiay is not a keeper in this situation. if we had him on a team ready to compete, i'd consider trying to keep him around on a long-term value deal. he's someone this incarnation of the knicks should deal or renounce, IMO.

[Greenie]

Your own chart shows Cleveland last year.

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You beat me, but I didn’t even look at the stats.

Off the top of my head they came to mind. A big story for that team the last few years was their mediocre at best defense.

LeBron stopped playing defense awhile ago.

POR- again, i hadn't looked and was guessing. my original point was champs. but then i widened to conference finalists without looking. and that's still one. (wow. 29. that right there should make the case for lebron GOAT. sheesh.)

it's not my chart. but on that chart the 06 heat team had a top-10 DE too.

edit: as for the one-way player discussion, of course teams need firepower. but there are teams with one-way players in the defensive direction too. such players still have value. and at worst, i believe frank is a one-way defensive player. i think it's way too early to completely close the book on his offensive potential.

but now we've turned a mudiay thread into a frank argument. like we do with everything here.

mudiay is not a keeper in this situation. if we had him on a team ready to compete, i'd consider trying to keep him around on a long-term value deal. he's someone this incarnation of the knicks should deal or renounce, IMO.

Ok.

Neither are keepers IMO.

We need a PG

[prophet_of_rage]

You beat me, but I didn’t even look at the stats.

Off the top of my head they came to mind. A big story for that team the last few years was their mediocre at best defense.

LeBron stopped playing defense awhile ago.

POR- again, i hadn't looked and was guessing. my original point was champs. but then i widened to conference finalists without looking. and that's still one. (wow. 29. that right there should make the case for lebron GOAT. sheesh.)

it's not my chart. but on that chart the 06 heat team had a top-10 DE too.

edit: as for the one-way player discussion, of course teams need firepower. but there are teams with one-way players in the defensive direction too. such players still have value. and at worst, i believe frank is a one-way defensive player. i think it's way too early to completely close the book on his offensive potential.

but now we've turned a mudiay thread into a frank argument. like we do with everything here.

mudiay is not a keeper in this situation. if we had him on a team ready to compete, i'd consider trying to keep him around on a long-term value deal. he's someone this incarnation of the knicks should deal or renounce, IMO.

Ok.

Neither are keepers IMO.

We need a PG

We need a lot.

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[BKAY]

So Mudiay vs Frank is the Gallo vs Chandler for this season?

[NY 567]

It seems silly to decide his fate, early into this season, coming off a hot streak of games. Jeremy Lin seemed like a keeper off 20 games too, but he's just an NBA journey-man.

Mudiay has quite a few things going for him, but with the unfluid hitch in his shot I don't foresee him sustaining his good shooting.

He does everything else at a decent level, and he is quite young, so he's still very much so worth taking a flyer on. He's also got terrific size for the PG position, and could develop into championship caliber if he gets better at a few more things.

Yeah but for whatever reason Lin was more special in a Knicks Jersey and with Dantoni. That had value.

Lin has been an average starter/good 6th man for the majority of his career. He's averaging 11/3 in only 18 minutes a night shooting 51/41 with a 65TS%. Lin didn't pan out to be a star but he's a very productive player who has had a good career. Don't kid yourself, Mudiay isn't Lin, Mudiay has been an absolute abysmal basketball player up until this point, and even comparing Mudiay's decent play to how Lin played during Linsanity is ludicrious. The hate Lin still gets is baffling.

[Icandoallthings]

I really hope Mudiay is traded before the off-season. He really is the type of guy that Knicks front office has talked themselves into overpaying in the past.

[Jeff Van Gully]

So Mudiay vs Frank is the Gallo vs Chandler for this season?

not even close.

[CharlesOakley]

Mudiay is elite at nothing. I'm not sure if he is even particularly good at anything He is a PG who doesn't pass. Average defender, average playmaker, average is a kind description. Why would we invest in a player who doesn't move the needle? He is a 3rd string PG, maybe 2nd string if his shoot improvements are real.

[Knicksfan1992]

I really hope Mudiay is traded before the off-season. He really is the type of guy that Knicks front office has talked themselves into overpaying in the past.

The Knicks haven't extended a guy on his rookie deal in a very long time.... The fact that we actually have candidates to debate about, in that realm, is actually a step up hahah. It's usually vets from other teams we overpay.

Anyway the dumping on Mudiay, after albeit a decent game against the best defense in the league, is pretty sad to watch unfold on this forum....

[blanko]

I gotta admit... mudiay is playing well . I think this will continue with players takning longer to develop.

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[HarthorneWingo]

Build up Mudiay and Burke for whatever trade value they could have but we have to develop Frank.

[HarthorneWingo]

I really hope Mudiay is traded before the off-season. He really is the type of guy that Knicks front office has talked themselves into overpaying in the past.

The Knicks haven't extended a guy on his rookie deal in a very long time.... The fact that we actually have candidates to debate about, in that realm, is actually a step up hahah. It's usually vets from other teams we overpay.

Anyway the dumping on Mudiay, after albeit a decent game against the best defense in the league, is pretty sad to watch unfold on this forum....

If we bring Mudiay back on a one-year deal as an UFA, then I'm good with it. That means we jettison Trey Burke and start given Frank the other 24-28 mpg at PG.

[Fat]

Back up - yes keeper

Starter long term - no thank you

[HarthorneWingo]

Back up - yes keeper

Starter long term - no thank you

But attempting to retain him at that price next season means holding on to him and then renouncing our rights so that he becomes an UFA which, as you know, means anyone can sign him and we get nothing. Whereas if we continued to build up his (and Burke's?) value, then we can possible move them at the deadline for an asset or two.

[thebuzzardman]

Mudiay sort of sucks. I hope the Knicks resign him for 12 million a year for 3 years.

[FemaleDogPlease]

I'm in agreement with the last few posts. Mudiay is a backup on a good team. Hopefully he agree to a reasonable long term deal.

[Fat Kat]

Mudiay is elite at nothing. I'm not sure if he is even particularly good at anything He is a PG who doesn't pass. Average defender, average playmaker, average is a kind description. Why would we invest in a player who doesn't move the needle? He is a 3rd string PG, maybe 2nd string if his shoot improvements are real.

He’s a Raymond Felton level player IMO.

[thebuzzardman]

Mudiay is elite at nothing. I'm not sure if he is even particularly good at anything He is a PG who doesn't pass. Average defender, average playmaker, average is a kind description. Why would we invest in a player who doesn't move the needle? He is a 3rd string PG, maybe 2nd string if his shoot improvements are real.

He’s a Raymond Felton level player IMO.

I suspect after he gets a 3 year contract, he'll be a Raymond Felton shaped player as well

[RShahNyC89]

While neither may be a long term key piece, at least one is still on his rookie contract in his 2nd year in the NBA.

Mud is average everything except at the rim and 3pt line where he is under average. The two biggest factors in offensive efficiency are being good at the basket and good from 3....soooooooo no. He is not a keeper.

[seren]

I gotta admit... mudiay is playing well . I think this will continue with players takning longer to develop.

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Our standards have been really low. Mudiay is playing better than Frank. He is not playing as good as a starting PG of a playoff team. He is below average. Jarrett Jack was a better point guard last year than Mudiay is this year. Derrick Rose in a Knick uniform was better than Mudiay's season thus far. Our record is 8-18 which I am completely fine with. But let's not make it like any of these players are worth an extension. They are not.