MaseInYourFace wrote:Y’all think he would have did same thing say he didn’t get hurt or the injury wasn’t as bad and he played a significant amount of games this season? I still think we’d be out of the playoffs picture but we wouldn’t be tank status bad.
Definitely would have been forced to keep him, in the NBA you simply can't walk away from his level of talent/potential even if there's a well reasoned argument that says you should.
if - IF - Porzingis was never going to get where he needed to be shooting, rebounding, or stamina-wise, then the ACL was a blessing in disguise because it allowed the uncertainty to creep in far enough to actually be actionable. Otherwise, yeah, he'd be getting $150M from the Knicks this summer even if he hadn't improved much this season.
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:30 pm
by rocarlos24
ppl on here getting crazy emo, lol I’m rolling with dsj and whoever we get... I been rolling why would I jump ship now? Stop crying ijs
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:30 pm
by newyorker4ever
NYKat wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
robillionaire wrote: I have a long list of reasons dating back for years but I’m not going to get into it, let’s just say I’m glad we got him on the phone
It's so sad that the race card gets played so much these days even when it's clearly not warranted.
I mean, There’s validity to it, Mark Cuban has made several comments over the years that could be construed as racist this is not a one off thing
Could be means we're just assuming and assuming something doesn't make it true.
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:32 pm
by Fat
rocarlos24 wrote:Man F that bring Melo back for the min
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:32 pm
by Dirk
Pretty telling that DSJ hasn't made it in the NBA yet when he doesn't even have a topic for him.
This is a good read, back from his college days:
Spoiler:
Raleigh_Legend wrote:Hey Guys!
Just registered for the board. New Mavs fan here! Wanted to chime in because ive seen alot of innuendo and misinformation on DSJ.
Im from North Carolina, life long NC State fan and season ticket holder. I watched all 35 games DSJ played in college, 20 or so in person.
Ill answer some rumors and questions ive seen posed;
1) Did he frequently take games off? Answer No: He took 2 games "off" id say. One regular season game where he seemed disinterested and then his last game in the ACC tournament. I think he was just playing half speed and playing not to get hurt honestly. He brought it every other night. The numbers speak for themselves. He had several triple double and flirted with doing so a few more times.
2) Is he bad at defense? Yet TBD. Our entire team was bad at defense. The coaching staff didnt stress D as much as it should, hence why they got the boot. DSJ showed flashes of being a good to great defender. His steal #'s were actually very good. He can jump up at a moments notice and just pluck the ball out of the air. Very quick hands and anticipation. I think he will be just fine in that dept. Silly knock on him if thats why he "dropped" to 9.
Future outlook from someone who has watched ACC basketball for 40 years and seen every player in the conference in person..
DSJ is one of the top 5 talented guys to come through the ACC IMHO since 1995. He's more talented than Harrison Barnes, Jabari Parker, Loul Deng, Jayson Tatum, Tyus Jones, Marvin Williams, TJ Warren, Brandon Ingram, Hansbrough, Joe Smith, Singler, Derrick Favors, Chris Bosh, Chris Paul, Raymond Felton, Michael Carter Williams, Brogden, JJ Hickson etc. He just is.
Stephon Marbury, Kenny Anderson, Tim Duncan, Vince Carter, Rodney Rogers are the guys that were on his level from a pure talent standpoint.
Ive talked with several people close to the program. Guys that routinely watch practice at NC State and watch summer work outs. NC State has a practice facility called the "Dail Center" during the summer which draws the top hoopers from our State, college , high school and Pro guys (NBA, over seas). John Wall has player in the Dail 30-40 times in these settings since hes from Raleigh. This observer told me before the season that this kid DSJ was better than John Wall. At the same age.
Point being- you got yourself a good one. Be patient. If he stays healthy he will be a 5 year All Star... maybe starting in 3-4 years once he learns the ropes. I would expect a stat sheet stuffer-- 14 pts. 5 asst. 4 rbs. type #'s to start out. He rebounds really well for a guard. Eventually he will be in that flirting with triple double territory again by year 3 or 4. He's a special talent, well spoken kid. Dont let the "gate" fool you. Some people think he's lazy at times because he walks slowly with an "old man" gate. Then he explodes. Its just how he walks. Watching him walk you wouldnt expect what comes next. I understand his dad will be with him in Dallas which will really help. DSJ isnt a party guy, he dated a member of the womens team. Never heard of him getting in any trouble. I hope he keeps his head on straight and doesnt let money and fame knock him off his game. He can be a good one for you guys, and for the league. YOu have a new Mavs fan... heck you probably added a few hundred thousand Mavs fans here in North Carolina.
Sidenote: This will go down as one of the best draft classes in the history of basketball. Lots of studs.
Good luck this season!
RL
I'll be following him and hope he solidifies into a good player. While some of the critics are on point, it feels like the epithets of "chucker", "ball hog", "selfish" are exaggerated. You will see many examples displaying good instintcs, vision and passing ability. Of course he is wildly inconsistent and he'll madden you by the tendency to hold the ball up and hesitate at times and his shot is whacky, even when he hits them you are not very confident. He made good strikes on defense this year after being torched by Trier earlier in the year and I have always liked his attitude on the floor. So I'll be rooting for him.
If he doesn't turn into a good player, just ban 3toheadmelo.
newyorker4ever wrote: It's so sad that the race card gets played so much these days even when it's clearly not warranted.
I mean, There’s validity to it, Mark Cuban has made several comments over the years that could be construed as racist this is not a one off thing
Could be means we're just assuming and assuming something doesn't make it true.
You still here bro? Still on this? Oh you big mad ... I’m not may the force be with you
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:34 pm
by newyorker4ever
robillionaire wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
rocarlos24 wrote:
Nah b, it’s warranted.... Marc Cuban is a joke, u don’t understand if u don’t understand u dig
Yeah i'm gonna go ahead and stick with what i said that the race card is played way too much these days when there's absolutely no reason for it to be played.
#truth #YOUDIG
Your feelings have been noted and I’m still going to keep calling it as I see it. Die mad lol
Well if you wanna die mad then that's on you but i'm good...thanks for coming.
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:35 pm
by bringbackhoffa
Stannis wrote:
HerSports85 wrote: 1. We have completely cleared the books while still keeping 4 of our rookies
Not completely. Noah is still stretched and on the books. With my OCD, that just bothers me lol
thats why i dont agree with people saying this trade has been discussed for months/weeks as why would u buyout Noah if you could of just included him in this deal. this simply was dallas saying we will take all of your long term contracts if you give us KP and we will also toss u a couple of picks (that will liekly be late first rounders). No other team that was interested in KP would want to take on additioanl long term salary as they would of wanted to team up KP with one of this offseasons free agents.
MaseInYourFace wrote:I’m not sure about Mathews but I can’t imagine Jordan wants to play here.
It sucks that we get W.Mathews now when we don't need him on the team cause i've always been a fan of him and for years have wanted the Knicks to get him so it's hard for me to say we need to trade or cut him but it's what's best for the team/future.
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:38 pm
by 3toheadmelo
IllmaticHandler wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:DSJ is 6’4 now btw. He said it on media day
Him and You...
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:38 pm
by Clyde_Style
stuporman wrote:Knowing the Knicks....
KP comes back this season saying he was ready to go by now and plays well enough with Doncic that they sneak into the 8th seed.
Then the Knicks wind up with the worst record but get the 5th pick and take a meh 6-5 volume shooting guard.
In FA with dreams of two max superstars fans are slapped awake when the Knicks sign Kemba and Blake to the longest most expensive contracts they can.
Get ready for it kids......you know it's going to go down like this.
The Knicks got laid last night
I suggest you go do the same
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:38 pm
by F N 11
lmao @ Janis. Is he even a lawyer? He is no way qualified to be KP's manager. What a leech.
Feel better about this move. This will be bad for Dallas if KP keeps getting injured.
I don't watch ESPN anymore but I'm surprised, that's good analysis. They should promote these guys over SAS.
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:41 pm
by thebuzzardman
seren wrote:KP will sign the max in Dallas. My guess is this whole thing was as much about the Knicks management not giving him the max last summer when they could. His brother got scared. Look at Embiid. He is 10 times the better player and even his contract is not fully guaranteed. It is possible Knicks FO didn’t want to fully guarantee a max extension to KP.
If so, that's an emotional and short sighted reaction to the basic facts on the ground as relates to the Knicks. I'd expect that KP and Janis would be smart enough to realize the reason for delaying that was to allow room for a shot at a max cat to put along KP (the KD etc scenario). IF they knew that and still got emotional over it and developed bad blood, then the tandem of them sort of needed to go.
Or not. It's going to be difficult to tease out the truth as the spin machines get going on both sides.
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:42 pm
by Zenzibar
Phil: Knick's fandom can appreciate my foresight later.
Feel better about this move. This will be bad for Dallas if KP keeps getting injured.
I don't watch ESPN anymore but I'm surprised, that's good analysis. They should promote these guys over SAS.
They're on Fox Sports1.
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:44 pm
by Black and Blue
This season had a handful of goals at the outset:
1) Tankitty tank tank 2) Clear the books of as many fatty contracts as possible 3) Play the rookies, see who has "it" now and who needs further development. 4) Get a bunch of reclamation projects as lotto tickets to see if one magically turns into a player to keep or has a boosted value for a trade. 5) Hold all draft picks, and if anything get more. 6) Build a "culture" that doesn't cave to me-first players to make it ultra clear to outside free agents that this organization is stable and has a strong plan they don't want to deviate from.
This trade somehow executed on all of those criteria perfectly. Before you can build a solid foundation, you have to knock the existing building to the ground. It's pretty cool that many Knicks fans on this board recognize that.
It also could not be more obvious now that veterans were getting playing time to try to showcase any sort of trade value while being told with the unpredictable lineups, "You are expendable. Don't think you are any more valuable to this team than the rookies".
Feel better about this move. This will be bad for Dallas if KP keeps getting injured.
I don't watch ESPN anymore but I'm surprised, that's good analysis. They should promote these guys over SAS.
SAS actually gave pretty much the same positive spin. Just louder.
Re: KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)
Posted: Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:45 pm
by IllmaticHandler
Im Just Gonna Leave this here....
zshawn10 wrote:Since 2010 30+ nba players that have torn their ACL have never made it to an All Star game according to 105.3 the fan, a dallas sports radio station
This is a ringer article from last year:
And now, after yet another uneven performance against the Bulls—one in which Porzingis logged 44 minutes of playing time—perhaps it’s time to reckon with the question Hall posed a year ago. Since 2015, Porzingis has suffered the following injuries to his right leg: sore hip, sprained ankle, sore foot, and “inflammation to the bone and tendon” of his knee. The list is longer for left-leg injuries: sore Achilles, sore knee, sprained ankle, sore groin, strained quad, and bruised thigh. He’s also battled lower-back tightness and a right-shoulder strain, and he has a right-elbow problem that might require surgery. Porzingis was diagnosed with anemia in 2010. He has missed games in all three NBA seasons for illnesses, including an upper-respiratory infection and three separate stomach flus.
“They call me ‘The Lizard’ because I recover so quickly from things,” Porzingis said in November after suffering a sprained right ankle. It’s true (not the Lizard part; no one calls him that): Despite that daunting list of injuries, Porzingis has missed only 32 games over his career. But on December 14, after he tweaked his left knee, his tone changed. “I did what I could this summer to prepare my body for this [workload],” Porzingis said. “Hopefully I can keep working on my body and strengthen all the ligaments everything and do what I can to avoid these kind of things.” Then on January 3, he admitted that he’s drained. “I’m tired, I’m tired, I’m so tired right now,” Porzingis said. “I have one day to rest my legs and get back and play better and have more energy and try to bring the team’s energy up.”
He’d clarify the comments the very next day. “Every day off helps, especially after a back-to-back that we had,” Porzingis said. “That’s what I meant. I was tired after the back-to-back. A day off always helps.” However he meant it, he still sounded more like an old, grizzled veteran than a rising 22-year-old superstar.
Porzingis is simply facing the cost of doing business as a giant in the NBA. He’s averaging 33 minutes with a 32.4 usage rate, a rarity since 1977-78, the first season usage can be calculated on Basketball-Reference. Only six players listed at 7 feet or taller have averaged 30 or more in both minutes and usage (Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzki, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Shaquille O’Neal). Porzingis is primed to join the ranks. When the minutes and usage thresholds are dropped to 25, we have a sample of 115 such seasons by 7-footers; in 23 of those player seasons, or 20 percent, 7-footers missed over one-fourth of their possible games. By comparison, of 386 player seasons for those between 6-foot-8 and 6-foot-11, only in 14.8 percent of them did players miss one-fourth of their games, which correlates strongly with a 2014 study by FiveThirtyEight that found 7-footers drafted in the lottery this century miss roughly seven more games per season than shorter players.
But even historical precedents don’t fully outline the issues Porzingis is facing. He’s missed “only” 32 of 205 possible games, or 15.6 percent. It’s not just that he’s missing games due to injury, it’s that he’s significantly worse when trying to play through them.
The bigger question than when Porzingis returns is how well he'll play. It's well-established that players perform worse the first season after ACL injuries, attributable in large part to rusty shooting immediately after returning. Less investigated is the long-term impact ACL tears have on how players develop.
After LaVine's injury, I took a look at the development of other 21-year-old players who had suffered ACL tears and found modest decline even two and three years beyond the injury as compared to their projected performance.
Because Porzingis is already 22, let's expand that sample to include players aged 21 through 23 at the time of their ACL tear. As before, I've compared their projected wins above replacement player (WARP) over the following three seasons based on my SCHOENE projections to what they actually accomplished. The results aren't encouraging.
Of the nine players projected to be better than replacement over the next three years, only one (Jamal Crawford) matched or beat his projection. Most fell substantially short, highlighted by Porzingis' former Knicks teammate Derrick Rose, whose decline after tearing his ACL makes him a worst-case scenario.
Looking at performance versus projections on a year-by-year basis shows once again that while the first season after the injury is worst, players continue to lag beyond that point.
