KP Trade Discussion Thread (Pt.2)

[Clyde_Style]

ppl on here getting crazy emo, lol I’m rolling with dsj and whoever we get... I been rolling why would I jump ship now? Stop crying ijs

Actually, you just made a very emo post. Most of the posters here are discussing this rationally and calmly. Some needed to get over the shock of a blockbuster move yesterday, but today I see people mostly in discussion mode with only a few mad housewives in the mix.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm still not seeing the light on this trade.

- Dallas was already shopping Dennis Smith. Knicks could have gotten him for a mid to late first rounder.
- 2021 pick will be a late pick
- 2023 pick will be a late pick, it's protected anyway
- No second round picks. Second round picks are another chance to sign somebody like Mitchell Robinson. And you get to fill up roster caps with cheap contracts, which the Knicks will need if they give out two max contracts. You'll need these picks to replace
- THjr should just not have been signed. So you are trading your best asset to clean up a recent mistake.
- CLee was still moveable, imo. But once again, you are still trading your best asset to clean up the mistake of not trading him when his value was highest. Trading your best asset to move CLee was not necessary.
- Mills once again proving he can't think ahead. He stretched Noah so soon when he could have been packaged in this deal.


I'm not saying they should have kept KP and let him be a unrestricted FA, but you could have gotten more picks (I would have been looking for a 2019 pick, 2021 pick, and a 2023 pick swap) and better prospects. Phil Jackson had the right trade idea in mind. Mills was just late to the party.

This is where I'm at too. I understand the decision to trade KP, but this deal is less than the sum of its parts.

Mills being late is funny, since this whole thing is basically his fault.

Devils advocate:
Agree that the deal could have been better but it's not bad.
Forget that Mills got THJr and it's his fault. He was on the team.
It's possible Perry drove this trade more than Mills and was eager to get THJr off the team.
Even if it was Mills, lets not act like teams were lining up to take THJr and send the Knicks cap relief "just because". That was going to cost an asset. A decent one, like a 1st or a player drafted in the first round. This year or even next.
CLee is supposed to be so moveable....but I"m not entirely sure.
Knicks were motivated to move at least one of the two and CLee, it's reasonable to assume, wouldn't be that hard to move, but it's not a given. Then the chance comes up to move both of them at once.

I don't LOVE the trade. I don't hate the trade. But I think the trade is "ok" to decent, once I get over how I felt about KP and wanting him to stay.

Plus, like, it's cool to say this was going to happen for a couple of months, and it did.

[NYKHardKnock]

This deal was an absolute slam dunk and I’ll say it over and over again

[Clyde_Style]

I'm still not seeing the light on this trade.

- Dallas was already shopping Dennis Smith. Knicks could have gotten him for a mid to late first rounder.
- 2021 pick will be a late pick
- 2023 pick will be a late pick, it's protected anyway
- No second round picks. Second round picks are another chance to sign somebody like Mitchell Robinson. And you get to fill up roster caps with cheap contracts, which the Knicks will need if they give out two max contracts. You'll need these picks to replace
- THjr should just not have been signed. So you are trading your best asset to clean up a recent mistake.
- CLee was still moveable, imo. But once again, you are still trading your best asset to clean up the mistake of not trading him when his value was highest. Trading your best asset to move CLee was not necessary.
- Mills once again proving he can't think ahead. He stretched Noah so soon when he could have been packaged in this deal.


I'm not saying they should have kept KP and let him be a unrestricted FA, but you could have gotten more picks (I would have been looking for a 2019 pick, 2021 pick, and a 2023 pick swap) and better prospects. Phil Jackson had the right trade idea in mind. Mills was just late to the party.

This is where I'm at too. I understand the decision to trade KP, but this deal is less than the sum of its parts.

Mills being late is funny, since this whole thing is basically his fault.

Devils advocate:
Agree that the deal could have been better but it's not bad.
Forget that Mills got THJr and it's his fault. He was on the team.
It's possible Perry drove this trade more than Mills and was eager to get THJr off the team.
Even if it was Mills, lets not act like teams were lining up to take THJr and send the Knicks cap relief "just because". That was going to cost an asset. A decent one, like a 1st or a player drafted in the first round. This year or even next.
CLee is supposed to be so moveable....but I"m not entirely sure.
Knicks were motivated to move at least one of the two and CLee, it's reasonable to assume, wouldn't be that hard to move, but it's not a given. Then the chance comes up to move both of them at once.

I don't LOVE the trade. I don't hate the trade. But I think the trade is "ok" to decent, once I get over how I felt about KP and wanting him to stay.

Plus, like, it's cool to say this was going to happen for a couple of months, and it did.

Quit equivocating MFer!

You wuv this deal and you know it

[GONYK]

I'm still not seeing the light on this trade.

- Dallas was already shopping Dennis Smith. Knicks could have gotten him for a mid to late first rounder.
- 2021 pick will be a late pick
- 2023 pick will be a late pick, it's protected anyway
- No second round picks. Second round picks are another chance to sign somebody like Mitchell Robinson. And you get to fill up roster caps with cheap contracts, which the Knicks will need if they give out two max contracts. You'll need these picks to replace
- THjr should just not have been signed. So you are trading your best asset to clean up a recent mistake.
- CLee was still moveable, imo. But once again, you are still trading your best asset to clean up the mistake of not trading him when his value was highest. Trading your best asset to move CLee was not necessary.
- Mills once again proving he can't think ahead. He stretched Noah so soon when he could have been packaged in this deal.


I'm not saying they should have kept KP and let him be a unrestricted FA, but you could have gotten more picks (I would have been looking for a 2019 pick, 2021 pick, and a 2023 pick swap) and better prospects. Phil Jackson had the right trade idea in mind. Mills was just late to the party.

This is where I'm at too. I understand the decision to trade KP, but this deal is less than the sum of its parts.

Mills being late is funny, since this whole thing is basically his fault.

Devils advocate:
Agree that the deal could have been better but it's not bad.
Forget that Mills got THJr and it's his fault. He was on the team.
It's possible Perry drove this trade more than Mills and was eager to get THJr off the team.
Even if it was Mills, lets not act like teams were lining up to take THJr and send the Knicks cap relief "just because". That was going to cost an asset. A decent one, like a 1st or a player drafted in the first round. This year or even next.
CLee is supposed to be so moveable....but I"m not entirely sure.
Knicks were motivated to move at least one of the two and CLee, it's reasonable to assume, wouldn't be that hard to move, but it's not a given. Then the chance comes up to move both of them at once.

I don't LOVE the trade. I don't hate the trade. But I think the trade is "ok" to decent, once I get over how I felt about KP and wanting him to stay.

Plus, like, it's cool to say this was going to happen for a couple of months, and it did.

I agree. I summed up my thoughts on this trade in a previous post.

Circumstantially, the deal might have been the best we could have gotten. I trust Perry enough to say it probably is.

Is it objectively a good deal for a player like KP at 23? I'm less sure about that.

I'm not hopping mad over the trade or anything. I'm actually firmly on team "F*ck that Diva".

I just don't think it was the best use of KP's value. If we stick the landing with the capspace and picks though, it is very recoverable though.

[rocarlos24]

ppl on here getting crazy emo, lol I’m rolling with dsj and whoever we get... I been rolling why would I jump ship now? Stop crying ijs

Actually, you just made a very emo post. Most of the posters here are discussing this rationally and calmly. Some needed to get over the shock of a blockbuster move yesterday, but today I see people mostly in discussion mode with only a few mad housewives in the mix.

Huh? Their no validity to your post, I been good just commenting on post, if it doesn’t apply let it fly

[thebuzzardman]

Two things about the players who remain:

Aside from Frank being a Phil pick, this pretty much wipes the slate clean for the Perry era to truly begin.

All possible malcontents seem to be gone. It does seem this org will not invite drama into the fold if it can be avoided. And I would not be surprised if Frank does figure into their future plans. If he had been a diva about his playing time, maybe not, but I'm confident Frank is well liked as a person at MSG. And player harmony does matter as long as they also believe in your future potential.

dennis has attitude problems and diva tendencies we need to watch him. playing in new york has a funny way of humbling you.

Definitely worth watching out for, but I'm staying open-minded about him. I never got into the dick swinging contests about him vs. Frank so I have no vested emotions in anything other than his success here. In fact, I'm intrigued by what we could do with a Smith/Frank backcourt. Sounds like it might be viable, but don't know yet.

It might be.

Few questions for the board.

How is Smith playing off the ball?
I think letting Frank actually run the point at least half the time maximizes his current version, because otherwise he's a SG that doesn't shoot or drive that well, to be honest.
That said, the reason why I said "half the time" is it would be a mistake to just make Smith the "SG", as he has the ability to break down the D, can pass it some, etc.

A concern:
That Fiz might not be quite bright enough offensive coaching wise or enough of a basketball disciplinarian and DSJr is the full time PG and Frank is parked in the corner waiting to take a 3 every second of every game.

[IllmaticHandler]

Watch on YouTube

[GONYK]

dennis has attitude problems and diva tendencies we need to watch him. playing in new york has a funny way of humbling you.

Definitely worth watching out for, but I'm staying open-minded about him. I never got into the dick swinging contests about him vs. Frank so I have no vested emotions in anything other than his success here. In fact, I'm intrigued by what we could do with a Smith/Frank backcourt. Sounds like it might be viable, but don't know yet.

It might be.

Few questions for the board.

How is Smith playing off the ball?
I think letting Frank actually run the point at least half the time maximizes his current version, because otherwise he's a SG that doesn't shoot or drive that well, to be honest.
That said, the reason why I said "half the time" is it would be a mistake to just make Smith the "SG", as he has the ability to break down the D, can pass it some, etc.

A concern:
That Fiz might not be quite bright enough offensive coaching wise or enough of a basketball disciplinarian and DSJr is the full time PG and Frank is parked in the corner waiting to take a 3 every second of every game.

If the answer was anything but "not good", Dallas would have kept him.

[Stannis]

I just don't think it was the best use of KP's value. If we stick the landing with the capspace and picks though, it is very recoverable though.

That's a very good way to put it. "Recoverable". I agree.

[Clyde_Style]

This is where I'm at too. I understand the decision to trade KP, but this deal is less than the sum of its parts.

Mills being late is funny, since this whole thing is basically his fault.

Devils advocate:
Agree that the deal could have been better but it's not bad.
Forget that Mills got THJr and it's his fault. He was on the team.
It's possible Perry drove this trade more than Mills and was eager to get THJr off the team.
Even if it was Mills, lets not act like teams were lining up to take THJr and send the Knicks cap relief "just because". That was going to cost an asset. A decent one, like a 1st or a player drafted in the first round. This year or even next.
CLee is supposed to be so moveable....but I"m not entirely sure.
Knicks were motivated to move at least one of the two and CLee, it's reasonable to assume, wouldn't be that hard to move, but it's not a given. Then the chance comes up to move both of them at once.

I don't LOVE the trade. I don't hate the trade. But I think the trade is "ok" to decent, once I get over how I felt about KP and wanting him to stay.

Plus, like, it's cool to say this was going to happen for a couple of months, and it did.

I agree. I summed up my thoughts on this trade in a previous post.

Circumstantially, the deal might have been the best we could have gotten. I trust Perry enough to say it probably is.

Is it objectively a good deal for a player like KP at 23? I'm less sure about that.

I'm not hopping mad over the trade or anything. I'm actually firmly on team "F*ck that Diva".

I just don't think it was the best use of KP's value. If we stick the landing with the capspace and picks though, it is very recoverable though.

There was NEVER going to be any way to dump Tim and Lee. NEVER. This was a brilliant move IMO that netted a clean slate, massive cap space, more picks and freedom from doubt going forwards. KP is NOT a franchise player yet. You should know that about a player already entering their 5th season. And he's 7'3" coming off an ACL. That's not likely to end well. When he goes down again you'll be praising this deal to the skies, because there is very little chance KP stays healthy long-term.

[King of Canada]

I just don't think it was the best use of KP's value. If we stick the landing with the capspace and picks though, it is very recoverable though.

That's a very good way to put it. "Recoverable". I agree.

As in, "The ability to walk comfortably again with lower back pain may be recoverable" after the trade

[thebuzzardman]

Just keeping it real. No way Frank will be the on ball guy if they play them together.

Obviously DSJr should have the ball X % of the time.

I think it would be a mistake for Franks development, but also his short term effectiveness, to have him off the ball 90% of the time. That's my opinion. I think it's valid. It's also fairly likely the Knicks do that very thing.
We'll see.
I'd go 60% DSJr and 40% Frank, IF Smith is good cutting off the ball, which I don't know. And in crunch times when a bucket is needed, DSJr all the way for his ability to create. In fact, would probably run out DSJr and Trier in that instance.

Obviously next year. Don't want to be eking out any wins this year

[thebuzzardman]

Shout-out to Buzzer for calling this, btw

Thank you sir.

It was a combination "gut feeling" and troll job for fun.

But I really did have a sense it could happen, though obviously I thought in a year or whatever the most logical time for KP to become a FA was.

[SARGO127]

What jersey numbers will the newbies wear

[Clyde_Style]

Just keeping it real. No way Frank will be the on ball guy if they play them together.

Obviously DSJr should have the ball X % of the time.

I think it would be a mistake for Franks development, but also his short term effectiveness, to have him off the ball 90% of the time. That's my opinion. I think it's valid. It's also fairly likely the Knicks do that very thing.
We'll see.
I'd go 60% DSJr and 40% Frank, IF Smith is good cutting off the ball, which I don't know. And in crunch times when a bucket is needed, DSJr all the way for his ability to create. In fact, would probably run out DSJr and Trier in that instance.

Obviously next year. Don't want to be eking out any wins this year

This. We'll find out after the trade dead and ASG if Fiz was just fuxxing with us or if he actually can coach and was hiding his candy

[GONYK]

Devils advocate:
Agree that the deal could have been better but it's not bad.
Forget that Mills got THJr and it's his fault. He was on the team.
It's possible Perry drove this trade more than Mills and was eager to get THJr off the team.
Even if it was Mills, lets not act like teams were lining up to take THJr and send the Knicks cap relief "just because". That was going to cost an asset. A decent one, like a 1st or a player drafted in the first round. This year or even next.
CLee is supposed to be so moveable....but I"m not entirely sure.
Knicks were motivated to move at least one of the two and CLee, it's reasonable to assume, wouldn't be that hard to move, but it's not a given. Then the chance comes up to move both of them at once.

I don't LOVE the trade. I don't hate the trade. But I think the trade is "ok" to decent, once I get over how I felt about KP and wanting him to stay.

Plus, like, it's cool to say this was going to happen for a couple of months, and it did.

I agree. I summed up my thoughts on this trade in a previous post.

Circumstantially, the deal might have been the best we could have gotten. I trust Perry enough to say it probably is.

Is it objectively a good deal for a player like KP at 23? I'm less sure about that.

I'm not hopping mad over the trade or anything. I'm actually firmly on team "F*ck that Diva".

I just don't think it was the best use of KP's value. If we stick the landing with the capspace and picks though, it is very recoverable though.

There was NEVER going to be any way to dump Tim and Lee. NEVER. This was a brilliant move IMO that netted a clean slate, massive cap space, more picks and freedom from doubt going forwards. KP is NOT a franchise player yet. You should know that about a player already entering their 5th season. And he's 7'3" coming off an ACL. That's not likely to end well. When he goes down again you'll be praising this deal to the skies, because there is very little chance KP stays healthy long-term.

To me, it is the equivalent of selling my lake front house to get out of debt for a car and boat I overpaid for. Is it good to get a clean slate? Did I make a tiny profit? Yes. Was that the best use of the equity? I don't think so. Plus, I don't have a house now.

Overall, I probably put the deal at a C+ today, with potential to get better depending on how we use the space. I'm extremely underwhelmed by the projected picks at the moment.

[Stannis]

Shout-out to Buzzer for calling this, btw

Thank you sir.

It was a combination "gut feeling" and troll job for fun.

But I really did have a sense it could happen, though obviously I thought in a year or whatever the most logical time for KP to become a FA was.

Call our 2019 FA signings, please

[GONYK]

Shout-out to Buzzer for calling this, btw

Thank you sir.

It was a combination "gut feeling" and troll job for fun.

But I really did have a sense it could happen, though obviously I thought in a year or whatever the most logical time for KP to become a FA was.

Call our 2019 FA signings, please

Did you enjoy how Buzz's first call worked out?

[Triple C]

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