Every Analyst saying it smells like 2010

[Greenie]

It is 2010 again.
Been saying it since last year. Just hope we don’t sign STAT.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Yes a lot of similarities for sure.

But the difference is that the trash Jared Jeffries trade, that most of the this board was all in on, took away our safety net of doing a 'proper' rebuild if we struck out in 2010, due to future picks we gave up.

We still have the opportunity to continuing to tank for a core piece (if they play it smart).

[MaseInYourFace]

I’ve actually seen many point out that it’s different from 2010. I’d say a slight majority have pointed it out that it’s a better scenario than 2010.

[duetta]

Unless Durant is taking the same elixir that Lebron evidently takes daily, I'm expecting Durant's productivity to go south within two seasons of his signing here. And as for Irving, in how many years has he not been injured by the playoffs?

[thebuzzardman]

Unless Durant is taking the same elixir that Lebron evidently takes daily, I'm expecting Durant's productivity to go south within two seasons of his signing here. And as for Irving, in how many years has he not been injured by the playoffs?

I'm not necessarily a fan of pairing Kyrie with Durant. However, I'm not sure there is another FA worth signing, that would actually come here. Figuring Kawhi is SoCal bound.

But, assuming it's Durant and Kyrie, or a Kyrie age player, wouldn't two years of prime Durant and two years of...75% Durant, be worth it, if the Knicks retain their young players and picks?

It's similar to if the Knicks had KP, got Durant, did a 4 year run with Durant, won a chip, didn't, whatever, and then Durant gone but most of the team is still anywhere from 23 to 26 years old. Seems like time for another 4 year run with some other player(s) in that slot.

In this version, there's no future cornerstone (unless Zion is drafted), but the team retains a nice base of 23-26 year old players, plus a ton of cap room.

I'm more a fan of the KP + Durant thing, but this seems not so far from it.

[DOT]

Unless Durant is taking the same elixir that Lebron evidently takes daily, I'm expecting Durant's productivity to go south within two seasons of his signing here. And as for Irving, in how many years has he not been injured by the playoffs?

I'm not necessarily a fan of pairing Kyrie with Durant. However, I'm not sure there is another FA worth signing, that would actually come here. Figuring Kawhi is SoCal bound.

But, assuming it's Durant and Kyrie, or a Kyrie age player, wouldn't two years of prime Durant and two years of...75% Durant, be worth it, if the Knicks retain their young players and picks?

It's similar to if the Knicks had KP, got Durant, did a 4 year run with Durant, won a chip, didn't, whatever, and then Durant gone but most of the team is still anywhere from 23 to 26 years old. Seems like time for another 4 year run with some other player(s) in that slot.

In this version, there's no future cornerstone (unless Zion is drafted), but the team retains a nice base of 23-26 year old players, plus a ton of cap room.

I'm more a fan of the KP + Durant thing, but this seems not so far from it.

Honestly, Kawhi + Kyrie would probably be best case scenario for us, even Durant and Kyrie would be great

I'm just not sold on unloading all of our presumed depth to trade for AD in that scenario. I get it, that'd be an amazing trade for us from a raw value point cause nobody on our roster will be as good as AD, but in this day and age you do need competent role players, and just saying "sign some guys for the vet min" isn't a real plan. Vet min guys aren't that good 90% of the time, cause they're old or washed.

But on the flip side, I don't see anyone coming here if we don't trade for AD. Who would seriously want to play with our roster over say, the Nets who could also sign 2 maxes and are already a playoff team, albeit low seeded. We lost our one draw in KP

I just hope that Perry stays true to his word, that if no one wants to come, we just stay the course and try again in a year. Add another top pick, develop some of our players, maybe we're more enticing to FAs then

[MaseInYourFace]

Unless Durant is taking the same elixir that Lebron evidently takes daily, I'm expecting Durant's productivity to go south within two seasons of his signing here. And as for Irving, in how many years has he not been injured by the playoffs?

I'm not necessarily a fan of pairing Kyrie with Durant. However, I'm not sure there is another FA worth signing, that would actually come here. Figuring Kawhi is SoCal bound.

But, assuming it's Durant and Kyrie, or a Kyrie age player, wouldn't two years of prime Durant and two years of...75% Durant, be worth it, if the Knicks retain their young players and picks?

It's similar to if the Knicks had KP, got Durant, did a 4 year run with Durant, won a chip, didn't, whatever, and then Durant gone but most of the team is still anywhere from 23 to 26 years old. Seems like time for another 4 year run with some other player(s) in that slot.

In this version, there's no future cornerstone (unless Zion is drafted), but the team retains a nice base of 23-26 year old players, plus a ton of cap room.

I'm more a fan of the KP + Durant thing, but this seems not so far from it.

Honestly, Kawhi + Kyrie would probably be best case scenario for us, even Durant and Kyrie would be great

I'm just not sold on unloading all of our presumed depth to trade for AD in that scenario. I get it, that'd be an amazing trade for us from a raw value point cause nobody on our roster will be as good as AD, but in this day and age you do need competent role players, and just saying "sign some guys for the vet min" isn't a real plan. Vet min guys aren't that good 90% of the time, cause they're old or washed.

But on the flip side, I don't see anyone coming here if we don't trade for AD. Who would seriously want to play with our roster over say, the Nets who could also sign 2 maxes and are already a playoff team, albeit low seeded. We lost our one draw in KP

I just hope that Perry stays true to his word, that if no one wants to come, we just stay the course and try again in a year. Add another top pick, develop some of our players, maybe we're more enticing to FAs then

The dream that’s being sold is that assuming KD wins another title he will focus on legacy building and post career which will make playing and hopefully being successful in NYC attractive to him. That’s what’s being hyped out here.

But very few players can do what Lebron does and overachieve with mediocre supporting parts.

[thebuzzardman]

Unless Durant is taking the same elixir that Lebron evidently takes daily, I'm expecting Durant's productivity to go south within two seasons of his signing here. And as for Irving, in how many years has he not been injured by the playoffs?

I'm not necessarily a fan of pairing Kyrie with Durant. However, I'm not sure there is another FA worth signing, that would actually come here. Figuring Kawhi is SoCal bound.

But, assuming it's Durant and Kyrie, or a Kyrie age player, wouldn't two years of prime Durant and two years of...75% Durant, be worth it, if the Knicks retain their young players and picks?

It's similar to if the Knicks had KP, got Durant, did a 4 year run with Durant, won a chip, didn't, whatever, and then Durant gone but most of the team is still anywhere from 23 to 26 years old. Seems like time for another 4 year run with some other player(s) in that slot.

In this version, there's no future cornerstone (unless Zion is drafted), but the team retains a nice base of 23-26 year old players, plus a ton of cap room.

I'm more a fan of the KP + Durant thing, but this seems not so far from it.

Honestly, Kawhi + Kyrie would probably be best case scenario for us, even Durant and Kyrie would be great

I'm just not sold on unloading all of our presumed depth to trade for AD in that scenario. I get it, that'd be an amazing trade for us from a raw value point cause nobody on our roster will be as good as AD, but in this day and age you do need competent role players, and just saying "sign some guys for the vet min" isn't a real plan. Vet min guys aren't that good 90% of the time, cause they're old or washed.

But on the flip side, I don't see anyone coming here if we don't trade for AD. Who would seriously want to play with our roster over say, the Nets who could also sign 2 maxes and are already a playoff team, albeit low seeded. We lost our one draw in KP

I just hope that Perry stays true to his word, that if no one wants to come, we just stay the course and try again in a year. Add another top pick, develop some of our players, maybe we're more enticing to FAs then

True. But as far as the Nets, and I'm not going to make an argument the Knicks are better, but they feel like the slightly better collection of role players the Knicks have.

If their "piece" is DLo, then Knicks have DSJr. I mean, that far apart?
If I were to run down their roster, the Knicks have a similar guy. But I'll grant that either the Nets version is a little better, or it feels like, in most instances is a year or two older, so the Nets basically, again, equal the Knicks, but another year or two into their rebuild.

I mean, that far from sells the Knicks as the destination. A FA could surely say "Well, Nets a little more ready, all things being equal, I'd rather go there"

I'm just not buying there that much further along. Further along, yes? By a lot? No.

I guess that raises the question of, if so, and if no rock solid back channel proof of two guys joining the Knicks, then the Knicks should have waited for a better offer for KP, perhaps in the offseason. If the acknowledgement is the team is a year or two from having the proper talent base, both to surround the stars in FA, but also to facilitate deals after they arrive.

Or, the Knicks had knowledge of KP's mindset in a way they felt there was no better deal in the offseason. Or they thought that way but thought wrong. And so on. Maybe we'll know. I think we'll get pieces of facts and factions will align around the half truths they like.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm not necessarily a fan of pairing Kyrie with Durant. However, I'm not sure there is another FA worth signing, that would actually come here. Figuring Kawhi is SoCal bound.

But, assuming it's Durant and Kyrie, or a Kyrie age player, wouldn't two years of prime Durant and two years of...75% Durant, be worth it, if the Knicks retain their young players and picks?

It's similar to if the Knicks had KP, got Durant, did a 4 year run with Durant, won a chip, didn't, whatever, and then Durant gone but most of the team is still anywhere from 23 to 26 years old. Seems like time for another 4 year run with some other player(s) in that slot.

In this version, there's no future cornerstone (unless Zion is drafted), but the team retains a nice base of 23-26 year old players, plus a ton of cap room.

I'm more a fan of the KP + Durant thing, but this seems not so far from it.

Honestly, Kawhi + Kyrie would probably be best case scenario for us, even Durant and Kyrie would be great

I'm just not sold on unloading all of our presumed depth to trade for AD in that scenario. I get it, that'd be an amazing trade for us from a raw value point cause nobody on our roster will be as good as AD, but in this day and age you do need competent role players, and just saying "sign some guys for the vet min" isn't a real plan. Vet min guys aren't that good 90% of the time, cause they're old or washed.

But on the flip side, I don't see anyone coming here if we don't trade for AD. Who would seriously want to play with our roster over say, the Nets who could also sign 2 maxes and are already a playoff team, albeit low seeded. We lost our one draw in KP

I just hope that Perry stays true to his word, that if no one wants to come, we just stay the course and try again in a year. Add another top pick, develop some of our players, maybe we're more enticing to FAs then

The dream that’s being sold is that assuming KD wins another title he will focus on legacy building and post career which will make playing and hopefully being successful in NYC attractive to him. That’s what’s being hyped out here.

But very few players can do what Lebron does and overachieve with mediocre supporting parts.

I'm well aware of the backstory of Durant. I was an early poster pushing why it made sense.

I'm not sure Durant can do what LeBron does. He shows he can absolutely facilitate when not scoring, but, as a loose analogy, he's more Kobe/MJ, while LeBron is more Magic Karl Malone Johnson.

So I guess what you are saying is Durant will need that high quality point guard/other #1 option?

That could very well be. I was just wondering if there was a path that had the othe high quality player not being Kyrie, but someone else, where DSJr brought 50% of Kyrie at 1/5th the price.

It might not be wise. Other than I was just generalizing in picking a name, Kawhi, while bringing the defense and is very good offensive player in his own right, might not bring enough offensive gravity with KD for it to really really work. Is that the point?

Just discussing. I get what you are saying.

[newyorker4ever]

Unless Durant is taking the same elixir that Lebron evidently takes daily, I'm expecting Durant's productivity to go south within two seasons of his signing here. And as for Irving, in how many years has he not been injured by the playoffs?

I'm not necessarily a fan of pairing Kyrie with Durant. However, I'm not sure there is another FA worth signing, that would actually come here. Figuring Kawhi is SoCal bound.

But, assuming it's Durant and Kyrie, or a Kyrie age player, wouldn't two years of prime Durant and two years of...75% Durant, be worth it, if the Knicks retain their young players and picks?

It's similar to if the Knicks had KP, got Durant, did a 4 year run with Durant, won a chip, didn't, whatever, and then Durant gone but most of the team is still anywhere from 23 to 26 years old. Seems like time for another 4 year run with some other player(s) in that slot.

In this version, there's no future cornerstone (unless Zion is drafted), but the team retains a nice base of 23-26 year old players, plus a ton of cap room.

I'm more a fan of the KP + Durant thing, but this seems not so far from it.

Honestly, Kawhi + Kyrie would probably be best case scenario for us, even Durant and Kyrie would be great

I'm just not sold on unloading all of our presumed depth to trade for AD in that scenario. I get it, that'd be an amazing trade for us from a raw value point cause nobody on our roster will be as good as AD, but in this day and age you do need competent role players, and just saying "sign some guys for the vet min" isn't a real plan. Vet min guys aren't that good 90% of the time, cause they're old or washed.

But on the flip side, I don't see anyone coming here if we don't trade for AD. Who would seriously want to play with our roster over say, the Nets who could also sign 2 maxes and are already a playoff team, albeit low seeded. We lost our one draw in KP

I just hope that Perry stays true to his word, that if no one wants to come, we just stay the course and try again in a year. Add another top pick, develop some of our players, maybe we're more enticing to FAs then

We if Perry didn't think KP was worth giving a max contract to then he better not go out and sign a K.Middleton or T.Harris or some others to a max contract cause a healthy KP is worth a max over either of those two. I'm a fan of both of them but those are the guys that are gonna get max contracts but aren't anywhere near the guys like KD, Kawhi and Kyrie type of players that will get max contracts.

[Thugger HBC]

This doesn't feel like 2010 at all. Sorry, it doesn't. Folks just wanna have a reason to **** on the Knicks when this regime has done it differently.

We traded KP, but gained picks and a ton of cap space, and a young prospect. KP didn't want to stay, asked to be traded and we did, and even with that still got exactly what the team desired. The youth moment can still move forward regardless of what happens in free agency.

I don't think Mills makes this deal either. This was all Perry, imo. If you ask out, Perry will move you out, but on his own terms on what he envisions.

We got picks for Melo, Willy, now KP, all players that wanted out....and no bad contracts.

Now what I can see happening is the team whiffs on all the top free agents. They bring back Mario and Vonleh on huge one year deals, a be players in again in the following years free agency.

That sound nothing like 2010. The Knicks have zero pressure to be desperate.

[Futureisnow]

In 2010 didn’t we give up draft picks for one max contract? This scenario is completely different. Some of you are just as ill informed as the talking heads on tv.

[stuporman]

Or the Knicks will get exactly what they hoped for, Zion, Durant and Kyrie.... but then wind up finishing 4th in the east behind the Raptors, Sixers and Celtics anyway...

[thebuzzardman]

I'm not necessarily a fan of pairing Kyrie with Durant. However, I'm not sure there is another FA worth signing, that would actually come here. Figuring Kawhi is SoCal bound.

But, assuming it's Durant and Kyrie, or a Kyrie age player, wouldn't two years of prime Durant and two years of...75% Durant, be worth it, if the Knicks retain their young players and picks?

It's similar to if the Knicks had KP, got Durant, did a 4 year run with Durant, won a chip, didn't, whatever, and then Durant gone but most of the team is still anywhere from 23 to 26 years old. Seems like time for another 4 year run with some other player(s) in that slot.

In this version, there's no future cornerstone (unless Zion is drafted), but the team retains a nice base of 23-26 year old players, plus a ton of cap room.

I'm more a fan of the KP + Durant thing, but this seems not so far from it.

Honestly, Kawhi + Kyrie would probably be best case scenario for us, even Durant and Kyrie would be great

I'm just not sold on unloading all of our presumed depth to trade for AD in that scenario. I get it, that'd be an amazing trade for us from a raw value point cause nobody on our roster will be as good as AD, but in this day and age you do need competent role players, and just saying "sign some guys for the vet min" isn't a real plan. Vet min guys aren't that good 90% of the time, cause they're old or washed.

But on the flip side, I don't see anyone coming here if we don't trade for AD. Who would seriously want to play with our roster over say, the Nets who could also sign 2 maxes and are already a playoff team, albeit low seeded. We lost our one draw in KP

I just hope that Perry stays true to his word, that if no one wants to come, we just stay the course and try again in a year. Add another top pick, develop some of our players, maybe we're more enticing to FAs then

We if Perry didn't think KP was worth giving a max contract to then he better not go out and sign a K.Middleton or T.Harris or some others to a max contract cause a healthy KP is worth a max over either of those two. I'm a fan of both of them but those are the guys that are gonna get max contracts but aren't anywhere near the guys like KD, Kawhi and Kyrie type of players that will get max contracts.

Absolutely. It sort of puts the Knicks in this scenario, where it HAS to be:

KD + Kyrie
KD + Kawhi
KD + AD (not sure this really makes the team a chip contender even if they didn't have to gut the roster, and they will)

Or

Sign nobody, except another pack of Vonlehs, Marios, Mudiays, to drive another tank conquest.

Anything else is kind of a fail, as Knicks could have had, potentially, KP and KD. Assuming Durant would come to the team as currently constituted.


Last thought.
A lot of times we've said "Why can't the Knicks be the team that cuts bait with a player and get assets" like other teams do.

We all liked KP a lot (or to a degree) and may have viewed him either as "Cornerstone" or "nice piece" but maybe the Knicks saw him as the latter, and didn't want to pay him as the former, and also, just figured there were other headaches (like Alt-Right Janis, lol) who they didn't want to deal with moving forward.

[stuporman]

If it's 2010 all over again then good, I can break up with that crazy woman sooner than I already did and buy lots of bitcoin.

[putiger78]

The league has learned a lot since 2010, if we strike out this offseason we aren't going to sign a bunch of mediocre guys, we will probably hand out some 1-year deals and roll things over. I also think its more likely we sign two or zero maxes than one, both because the candidates know they need another guy, and because it is a bad strategy. If we sign one free agent we might be a 35 -40 win team and al our draft assets are worth less.

Knicks fans are also smarter. Amare, Felton and Mozgov was a disappointment in 2010 but not viewed as a disaster; if we did the same this offseason there would be a revolt. I also think Perry is smarter than that. We'll see.