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Is 3 max spots possible?

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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#41 » by knickstape4ever » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:02 am

2010 wrote:So in other words...NOT REALISTIC (like I said)


It's only unrealistic if you don't think they can get 2 max players. Because if Kyrie and KD come, everyone else is expendable (DSJ, Knox, Frank, Trier, Robison, the first rounder, etc) to get a 3rd star, which I would think would be AD.

If you're the Pelicans what would you rather have?:

Ball
Kuz
Ingram
Zubac,
2019 1st (currently #14)

or

DSJ
Knox
RJ Barrett (if we don't get Zion)
Robinson
Mavs 2021 1st

or

Tatum
Brown
Kings 1st (currently #13)
Clippers 1st (currently #18)
Grizzlies 1st (likely won't convey this year; currently at #6: top 8 protected 2019, top 6 2020, unprotected 2021)

I think it would be close between Knicks and Celtics based on strength of the package (especially since rumor is Pelicans don't want to trade AD to Lakers)
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#42 » by BB_Fan » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:07 am

You trade for AD on draft night with all of knicks and Mavs 1st round picks. You can trade DSJ, Kevin know , wesley mathews to make salaries match. Hope Knicks get 1st pick.

With AD on board you can get KD and Kyrie will follow. Sign DeAndre for Mid Level and you have a championship team.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#43 » by knickstape4ever » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:18 am

BB_Fan wrote:You trade for AD on draft night with all of knicks and Mavs 1st round picks. You can trade DSJ, Kevin know , wesley mathews to make salaries match. Hope Knicks get 1st pick.

With AD on board you can get KD and Kyrie will follow. Sign DeAndre for Mid Level and you have a championship team.


Pretty sure you have to wait and sign KD and Kyrie (or 2 other max's) 1st before trading for AD
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#44 » by drekwins » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:22 am

2010 wrote:Not realistic. Someone would have to take below their max or all 3 take a little less than the max.


Key word = possible

Quick answer, it depends.....It is not possible if they acquire AD first prior to signing KD and Kyrie... This is because KD's max is going to be 35% of the cap since he's a 10 year veteran. If we sign 2 max guys with less than 10 years of experience, it is possible to acquire AD right now and have 2 max contracts left in the summer. No matter what, acquiring AD helps with this conversation because he only makes 27 million. Kawhi, Kyrie, Kemba, Butler, Klay are all set to make 30% of the cap. KD is going to make 35% of the cap.

With that said, there are scenarios that are plausable in which the Knicks could afford 3 of these guys. This is because one nice part of having only good contracts left on the cap are that they're all movable, if necessary. The only cap hit not movable is Noah. So, to start, take the projected salary cap number of $109M, subtract the salary committed to Noah's buyout $6,431,667 and LFT's guarantee of $1,000,000.

Step 1) Assumption: 109M Cap
Step 2) Toal Possible Space before Cap Holds = (109M LESS Noah and LFT) = 101,568,333
Step 3) 9 Cap Holds (Est. $838,464/ea) = 7,546,176
Step 4) Total Space for 3 players = 94,022,157
Step 5)

AD Salary 2019 = 27,093,019
Kyrie Salary 2019 = 32,700,00
KD Salary 2019 = 38,150,000
TOTAL SALARY CAP NEEDED TO ACQUIRE ALL 3 = 97,943,019

THEREFORE....

Scenario 1) If they acquire AD first via trade NOW, it would all comes down to if Kyrie and/or Durant want to give up any money. AD is under contract so he can not give up money even if he wants to.

Scenario 2) If they sign Kyrie and KD outright for $70,850,000 first (or any other 2 max cats), they could then retain the following roster:

1) Kyrie & KD + Noahs Cap Hold + LFT guaranteed = 77,281,667
-PLUS-
3) Knox = 4,380,120
4) Smith Jr = 4,463,640
5) Robinson = 1,559,120
6) Ntilikina = 4,855,800
7) Dotson = 1,618,520
8) Trier = 3,551,100
9) 2019 Number 1 Pick (Highest Salary Scenario) - ($6,804,300)
10) 2nd Rnd Pick = Rookie Minimum (838,464)
11) Min Cap Hold = 838,464
12) Min Cap Hold = 838,464

Total Salary Committed = 108,029,659

We could then use any combination of our roster and future picks to trade for stars... even if it means going over the cap. The salaries that we receive must be within 125% + 100,000 of the outgoing salaries. Therefore, if we can retain any of these guys off their current deals for short-term deals and/or good value deals, it would help to meet future salaries via trade. In other words, we would have to exchange $21,594,416 in salaries to acquire AD.

This would require something along the lines of:

2019 1st = 6,804,300
Knox = 4,380,120
Ntilikina = 4,855,800
Trier = 3,551,100
Dotson = 1,618,520
2nd Rnd Pick = 838,464
TOTAL SALARY TRADED: 22,048,304

Final Thoughts

1) Durants 35% salary max makes matters a little more difficult. Opting to sign Kawhi or two guys with less than 10 years of experience would ease financial matters considerably and allow us to retain more of our current young core without HAVING to include them just to match salaries.
2) With that said, even if we are fortunate enough to sign Durant, we could then make a trade for AD happen and retain 1 of the following: DSJ, Knox or 2019 1st round pick. We would also be able to retain Robinson or Dotson.
3) I expect LFT to be included in a deal before the deadline to get his $1,000,000 guarantee off the books.

An example of a roster with 3 max guys would look as follows:
C: Robinson
PF: AD
SF: Durant
SG: Minimum/Dotson
PG: Kyrie
6: Knox, DSJ or 2019 1st Rnd Pick
7) Minimum
8) Minimum
9) Minimum

Alternatively, I could see the Knicks try the following:

C: Robinson
PF: AD
SF: Knox
SG: Klay
PG: Kyrie
6: Dotson or Trier
7: Minimum
8: Minimum
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#45 » by knickstape4ever » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:26 am

Call me crazy but I kinda like the idea of Klay as the #2 max FA over Kyrie (tho, there's no way GS would let both he and KD leave)

My dream scenario:
Land #1 pick (draft Zion)
Sign Kawhi and Klay
Trade Zion, Trier, Frank, 2020 Knicks 1st, 2021 Mavs 1st for AD

DSJ
Klay
Kawhi
Knox
AD

Robisnon
Dotson
2019 2nd rounder
Mid-Level Exception
6 vet-minimums

Now thats what I call a team
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#46 » by BB_Fan » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:33 am

AD 2019 salary is - 27,093,019. Hope ours is Top pick in 2019.

I would Trade for AD on draft night for Knox, DSW, Wesley Mathews,Dotson and all of ours (4) and Mavs picks (2) including 2019 1st pick. Wesley Mathews salary is expiring and comes of book on July 1st 2019.

Renounce everybody/Trade except AD on July 1st.
You will have 74 Mil after deducting AD and Noah salary. That should be enough for KD and Kyrie to sign as FA. Use Mid level exception for De Andre Jordan and you have super team in 2019.

Think of this team
C - Jordan
F - AD
SF - KD
SG - ???
PG - kyrie.

You can see the beauty of KP Trade to bring 2020 trophy to new york.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#47 » by dakomish23 » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:35 am

Spree2Houston wrote:3 is possible but then you're basically fielding a team of Kyrie/KD/Davis and all vet. min players. I don't think you can truly win like that. It'll be hard to sustain over time. We really should focus our attention on getting KD and Kawhi and hoping one of Knox, 2019 pick, and DSJ becomes an all-star Caliber player.


It would be tough. Getting some more draft picks will come in handy. That’s why we should flip the expiring deals for players who don’t completely suck for players that do. IE Mario for Jason Smith / filler / 2nd. Or Kanter for ZBo / 2nd.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#48 » by BB_Fan » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:38 am

That is what Miami did in 2010. Good players will sign for Minimum to get a ring. You have to build a super team of AD, Kyrie, KD and Jordan. Other pieces will fall and you will get good players who will sign for Min to win a ring
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#49 » by drekwins » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:41 am

knickstape4ever wrote:Call me crazy but I kinda like the idea of Klay as the #2 max FA over Kyrie (tho, there's no way GS would let both he and KD leave)

My dream scenario:
Land #1 pick (draft Zion)
Sign Kawhi and Klay
Trade Zion, Trier, Frank, 2020 Knicks 1st, 2021 Mavs 1st for AD

DSJ
Klay
Kawhi
Knox
AD

Robisnon
Dotson
2019 2nd rounder
Mid-Level Exception
6 vet-minimums

Now thats what I call a team


Cap wise, Kawhi is ideal instead of KD if we're going to get AD as well. However, I don't know if he is well liked by Kyrie and/or AD. Changing out KD with Kawhi saves about $5,450,000 from the books. This could help us to absorb some of AD's salary so we wouldn't have to match within the 125% + 100,000 rule. Assuming AD would come next, I'd rank the FA pairings as follows:

1st Best: KD, Kawhi
2nd Best: Kawhi, Kyrie
3rd Best: KD, Kyrie
4th: Kawhi and Klay or Kemba
5th: KD and Klay or Kemba

With that said, I'm a big fan of Kawhi's game. Others may think KD is worlds better.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#50 » by knickstape4ever » Sat Feb 2, 2019 5:52 am

BB_Fan wrote:AD 2019 salary is - 27,093,019. Hope ours is Top pick in 2019.

I would Trade for AD on draft night for Knox, DSW, Wesley Mathews,Dotson and all of ours (4) and Mavs picks (2) including 2019 1st pick. Wesley Mathews salary is expiring and comes of book on July 1st 2019.

Renounce everybody/Trade except AD on July 1st.
You will have 74 Mil after deducting AD and Noah salary. That should be enough for KD and Kyrie to sign as FA. Use Mid level exception for De Andre Jordan and you have super team in 2019.

Think of this team
C - Jordan
F - AD
SF - KD
SG - ???
PG - kyrie.

You can see the beauty of KP Trade to bring 2020 trophy to new york.


you can't. you have to sign the 2 max FA's 1st.

Amount needed for KD and Kyrie: 70,850,000. With 109M as the salary cap, they need to be at or below $38,150,000 in order to sign 2 Max FA's, however if the trade for AD first, their cap situation would be (assuming everyone is traded):

AD: 27,093,019
Thomas/Noah dead money (7,431,667)
minimum cap holds: 11 x 838,464 = 9,223,104
=43,747,790 which would be roughly 5M too much on the books (have to be at $38,150,000 or below)
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#51 » by drekwins » Sat Feb 2, 2019 6:01 am

knickstape4ever wrote:
BB_Fan wrote:AD 2019 salary is - 27,093,019. Hope ours is Top pick in 2019.

I would Trade for AD on draft night for Knox, DSW, Wesley Mathews,Dotson and all of ours (4) and Mavs picks (2) including 2019 1st pick. Wesley Mathews salary is expiring and comes of book on July 1st 2019.

Renounce everybody/Trade except AD on July 1st.
You will have 74 Mil after deducting AD and Noah salary. That should be enough for KD and Kyrie to sign as FA. Use Mid level exception for De Andre Jordan and you have super team in 2019.

Think of this team
C - Jordan
F - AD
SF - KD
SG - ???
PG - kyrie.

You can see the beauty of KP Trade to bring 2020 trophy to new york.


you can't. you have to sign the 2 max FA's 1st.

Amount needed for KD and Kyrie: 70,850,000. With 109M as the salary cap, they need to be at or below $38,150,000 in order to sign 2 Max FA's, however if the trade for AD first, their cap situation would be (assuming everyone is traded):

AD: 27,093,019
Thomas/Noah dead money (7,431,667)
minimum cap holds: 11 x 838,464 = 9,223,104
=43,747,790 which would be roughly 5M too much on the books (have to be at $38,150,000 or below)


Exactly, then KD and Kyrie would have to split the difference and we wouldn't be able to retain any of our young guys. If we sign them first or forego KD in favor of Kawhi, we could then trade for AD right now and afford 2 max's and retain one young guy. No matter what, the easiest way is to wait on AD but if the opportunity presents itself, it could be easier said than done.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#52 » by BB_Fan » Sat Feb 2, 2019 6:56 am

knickstape4ever wrote:
BB_Fan wrote:You trade for AD on draft night with all of knicks and Mavs 1st round picks. You can trade DSJ, Kevin know , wesley mathews to make salaries match. Hope Knicks get 1st pick.

With AD on board you can get KD and Kyrie will follow. Sign DeAndre for Mid Level and you have a championship team.


Pretty sure you have to wait and sign KD and Kyrie (or 2 other max's) 1st before trading for AD


No. You can make a draft night trade for AD and gut the team of everyone. You can do sign and trade with GS / Boston after July 1st where you trade cap space and get a higher salary back. Knicks did it in 2010 for Amare.

This might be Dolan plan to sell knicks after winning a championship. He will pocket 3 - 4 billion
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#53 » by Obi-One » Sat Feb 2, 2019 7:21 am

It is definitely possible, problem is the situation in NO is becoming toxic. AD is publicly saying he wants to leave and is forcing the Laker deal. He will probably be a Laker by the deadline.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#54 » by knickstape4ever » Sat Feb 2, 2019 7:49 am

BB_Fan wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
BB_Fan wrote:You trade for AD on draft night with all of knicks and Mavs 1st round picks. You can trade DSJ, Kevin know , wesley mathews to make salaries match. Hope Knicks get 1st pick.

With AD on board you can get KD and Kyrie will follow. Sign DeAndre for Mid Level and you have a championship team.


Pretty sure you have to wait and sign KD and Kyrie (or 2 other max's) 1st before trading for AD


No. You can make a draft night trade for AD and gut the team of everyone. You can do sign and trade with GS / Boston after July 1st where you trade cap space and get a higher salary back. Knicks did it in 2010 for Amare.

This might be Dolan plan to sell knicks after winning a championship. He will pocket 3 - 4 billion


I highly doubt GS or Boston would help the Knicks steal their stars...
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#55 » by BB_Fan » Sat Feb 2, 2019 7:56 am

knickstape4ever wrote:
BB_Fan wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
Pretty sure you have to wait and sign KD and Kyrie (or 2 other max's) 1st before trading for AD


No. You can make a draft night trade for AD and gut the team of everyone. You can do sign and trade with GS / Boston after July 1st where you trade cap space and get a higher salary back. Knicks did it in 2010 for Amare.

This might be Dolan plan to sell knicks after winning a championship. He will pocket 3 - 4 billion


I highly doubt GS or Boston would help the Knicks steal their stars...


The players are free agents and S/T helps Boston/GS get a Trade exception to get other players. Because Knicks have cap space they can also sign them as free agents. LeBron, Amare , Bosh were signed as S/T in 2010 by knicks & Heat.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#56 » by Bklyn&company » Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:06 am

Also... the Cap may go a million or two up from the projected.. it's possible it happened before
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#57 » by The KnicksFix » Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:08 am

If the pelicans wait until draft day we can get 3, yes
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#58 » by cgmw » Sat Feb 2, 2019 11:20 am

Here’s what everyone seems to be missing about the “3 max” possibilities — the third player doesn’t have to be Anthony Davis.

The Knicks should be able to create a ~$28-30mm matching package strong enough for any of these trades:

Beal
Lillard
Conley
Wall
Jrue
Lowry
Griffin
Aldridge
Love
Wiggins

Anyone in that salary range on a team looking to blow it up with 4 recent lotto picks (Knox, DSJ, Frank, and whomever we take 2019).

This could be a major selling point to whatever buddy-buddy Max combo considering a MSG takeover.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#59 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Feb 2, 2019 12:13 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Garbagelo wrote:I unlike others believe 0 maxes will be in the cards for 2020


I think the next move is to obtain AD. We get AD for Knox, Frank and the Dallas picks (or Dallas 2021 and the next Knicks pick top 2 protected). Very realistic chance that Knicks dip to 3rd or farther. Getting AD gets us star #1. We then are in position to get stars 2 and 3.

If we don't get AD now, it'll be 2 max players (only) going forward.

But...

... then you're not beating Golden State and I doubt KD would leave them in that case. Even if he did, it wouldn't be enough.

It's AD or bust.
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Re: Is 3 max spots possible? 

Post#60 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Feb 2, 2019 12:26 pm

Statrax wrote:It is definitely possible, problem is the situation in NO is becoming toxic. AD is publicly saying he wants to leave and is forcing the Laker deal. He will probably be a Laker by the deadline.

They really don't have what it takes to trade for him. If that happens, I'm done.

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