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Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox

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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#581 » by Sark » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:18 pm

Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#582 » by Ray Williams » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:22 pm

Cookies4Life wrote:
Fury wrote:
DrCoach wrote:

You.ve missed the point entirely


What's the point? Kevin Knox's numbers are abysmal not just bad.


It's worrisome how his numbers looked last season; pretty much all the advanced metrics paint Knox in a terrible light. It would be one thing if he was just getting spot minutes as an 18 year old rookie but he was a starter for the majority of the season and played heavy minutes, so a lot of those numbers do look appalling.

I also see the other perspective that he's really young, has to fill into his body, work on some actual go-to moves offensively, build on his stamina and conditioning which I hope was the reason his defense was so putrid last season. He also played with arguably the worst starting PG in the league who didn't look like he knew how to orchestrate an offense in Mudiay.

He is really young and hopefully he'll use all that experience from last season and look to improve in pretty much every facet to his game. His physical attributes are impressive and he does seem like he can be a do-it-all type of player on the offensive end since the fundamentals are there. He just needs a LOT of improving in all aspects of his game.


Maybe the fact that he was forced to play heavy minutes as the 2nd youngest player in the league had something to do with how his numbers looked?
Once his body fills out he’ll be able to handle his natural PF position a lot easier. I want him closer to the paint attacking defenders, not standing in the corner being ignored by some of the chuckers we got rid of.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#583 » by DrCoach » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:05 pm

Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.


RAMP is meaningless to evaluate a players impact
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#584 » by Sark » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:19 pm

DrCoach wrote:
Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.


RAMP is meaningless to evaluate a players impact



Maybe RAMP is, but RAPM isn't.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#585 » by K-DOT » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:21 pm

I mean, we all saw it

Knox is an atrocious defender (wouldn't be a stretch to say worst in the league), and while he can hit 3s, he's super inefficient and takes a bunch of shots. It makes sense stats wouldn't like him, he was objectively terrible last year

Doesn't mean he can't improve, or get to the point where he contributes to a team. He's younger than most guys coming out of the draft this year, so I'd give him time

But yeah, he was pretty much hot garbage overall last year
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#586 » by Ris_44 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:18 pm



If you were looking at these highlights from a college prospect, most people here would be drooling and calling for him to be drafted at 3. He also did this against NBA players. He obviously has a lot of things he has to improve, that's a given, but to give up on a kid after one season is just dumb.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#587 » by FlashFlood » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:58 am

Knox has alot of question marks. I'm inclined to also keep him for most of his contract, but with his general body language and disposition, it's hard to have faith. Will he improve on his inefficient scoring and weak defense? I hope he levels up but if not we've got one of Ja Morant or RJ Barrett coming. They will easily pair with Mitchell Robinson.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#588 » by Gravy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:00 am

How does that highlight reel not have my favorite Knox play?

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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#589 » by Hes_On_Fire » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:58 am

Ris_44 wrote:

If you were looking at these highlights from a college prospect, most people here would be drooling and calling for him to be drafted at 3. He also did this against NBA players. He obviously has a lot of things he has to improve, that's a given, but to give up on a kid after one season is just dumb.




Highlight reels are what they are - highly deceptive.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#590 » by NYKnickerbocker » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:41 am

Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.

I mean if Giannis coach at the time told him to go get buckets young man and let him play all game regardless of how ass he was in his rookie year he’d probably be a lot lower tho
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#591 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:41 am

It's almost as if a player picked as a development pick needs more time to develop.

I just want to know when we can start complaining about Mitch's utter lack of a post game and, no close, mid and 3 point jumper.

I mean, he played a season in the NBA. Sure he was a great defender and caught lobs, but what about all the other things that are to be expected from top flight NBA centers? Also, his passing could use work. I didn't see a lot of assists.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#592 » by F N 11 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:38 pm

This thread would be bookmarked. Hype after Summer league dude had a rookie season that wasnt perfect and people are turning.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#593 » by DrCoach » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm

I mean, what ceiling are we putting on him.

For me

Ceiling: Taller tobias Harris/Siakam


Flor: Jeff Green

If he cam become solid 3rd option, Siakam type of player, that would be awesome
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#594 » by Polk377 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:07 pm

DrCoach wrote:I mean, what ceiling are we putting on him.

For me

Ceiling: Taller tobias Harris/Siakam


Flor: Jeff Green

If he cam become solid 3rd option, Siakam type of player, that would be awesome


I think realistically in his prime Knox can be Rashard Lewis. Both the same size, good shooters with quick releases, can put the ball on the floor and get to the basket but lack elite ball-handling and can be solid defenders but not always engaged. 3rd option on a championship team.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#595 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:12 pm

I have confidence he'll come back next season bigger, better and stronger, his father is a coach and these kind of players almost always turn out solid at the very least. Just getting a little stronger and more consistent with his jumper will open up his entire game.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#596 » by Sark » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:22 pm

NYKnickerbocker wrote:
Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.

I mean if Giannis coach at the time told him to go get buckets young man and let him play all game regardless of how ass he was in his rookie year he’d probably be a lot lower tho



Doesn't really work that way. Their minutes for their rookie year weren't that far off.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#597 » by E-Balla » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:37 pm

Sark wrote:
NYKnickerbocker wrote:
Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.

I mean if Giannis coach at the time told him to go get buckets young man and let him play all game regardless of how ass he was in his rookie year he’d probably be a lot lower tho



Doesn't really work that way. Their minutes for their rookie year weren't that far off.

Yep Giannis played 24 mpg and Knox 28.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#598 » by Billy Goat » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:39 am

Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.


Knox had one of the worst rookie seasons ever recorded if we're being honest. Guy played way too much when he clearly wasnt ready.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#599 » by Nazrmohamed » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:07 am

Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.


Explain to me these statistics youve just posted.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#600 » by Nazrmohamed » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:20 am

Hes_On_Fire wrote:
Ris_44 wrote:

If you were looking at these highlights from a college prospect, most people here would be drooling and calling for him to be drafted at 3. He also did this against NBA players. He obviously has a lot of things he has to improve, that's a given, but to give up on a kid after one season is just dumb.




Highlight reels are what they are - highly deceptive.


Well they definitely are deceptive but not in the ways you may think. It's not to say that what you saw isnt what he truly is capable of. That happened, it wasn't a simulation. But what it didn't show you is what he did on all the misses, and I'm not particularly concerned with the misses themselves. You can explain away the percentages with him being to get stronger, play in an actual system or have a pg who looks to get players the ball in the right spots for them. Our pgs all need alot of work themselves let alone have evolved the chemistry to understand where teammates are most effective.

What really kills me as I said before is how he sulks after misses. Doesnt get back on defenses after misses and seemingly isnt involved in plays when he isnt getting the ball. Even a selfish scorer knows how to work to get open or make himself obvious. Far too often Knox is just leisurely hanging out at the 3pt line, not making his defender work and then just chucking the first pass he gets. I'd say hes lazy on defense but hes also lazy on offense. Gotta fix that more than anything else. His ethic

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