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Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox

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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#601 » by aq_ua » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:23 am

Can we send Knox to that prison Bruce Wayne was sent to in Batman Begins? That seems to work well for mentally weak young boys.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#602 » by Sark » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:57 am

Nazrmohamed wrote:
Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.


Explain to me these statistics youve just posted.


Regularized Adjusted Plus Minus. Basically it's a possession level impact estimator that takes into account teammates, opponents, etc for every minute that a player is on the court.

In all honesty it's not good to look at on a single year basis, but we don't have multi year data to look at for Knox yet. Regardless he was terrible in every other advanced metric as well.

The best thing about his season were those flashes that you see in 5 minute highlight videos. However they don't show you the other 2000 minutes he played where his team got destroyed, that he was largely responsible for.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#603 » by Polk377 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:02 am

Billy Goat wrote:
Sark wrote:Giannis 2014 RAPM: 0.3752, 199 out of 611.

Knox 2019 RAPM: -6.0, 530 out of 530.


They're in completely different ballparks.

And don't say "oh well Kevin's team...", because the Bucks were just as bad. They finished with 15 wins, not 17.


Knox had one of the worst rookie seasons ever recorded if we're being honest. Guy played way too much when he clearly wasnt ready.


They gave Knox a crash course lesson this season. They gave all the minutes he could handle to play out as many situations as possible. Now he knows at what speed he has to play with in this league and where his level of conditioning needs to be. He will go into next season more comfortable and in better physical shape. I expect his efficiency to improve greatly.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#604 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:09 am

Knicks fans: "Knicks never give the young players all teh minutes and just let them make mistakes so they develop"

Knicks give young player all the minutes and just let him make mistakes so he develops

Knicks fans: "THIS GUY SUCKS!!!!!"
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#605 » by Billy Goat » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:14 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks fans: "Knicks never give the young players all teh minutes and just let them make mistakes so they develop"

Knicks give young player all the minutes and just let him make mistakes so he develops

Knicks fans: "THIS GUY SUCKS!!!!!"


This isnt how it works. Players need to earn minutes. Knox was the same player from the beginning of the season to the end. Chucking bad shots with seemingly zero direction. Was taking the same awful shots at an awful rate from November to April. That isnt helping anyone. Obviously the issues stem further than just Knox's performance, but he had no business being on the floor as much as he was last season.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#606 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:00 pm

It's very possible that Knox might bust. The stats back up him being one of the worst players in the league last year. The kid still hasn't even turned 20 yet and we shouldn't give up on him. I mean the kid moves around like he's a baby deer not used to his long arms and legs. Even with that being said it's not going to take much to turn him into an NBA player. He really needs to improve his finishing at the rim and work on his lateral quickness to get around screens better.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#607 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:08 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks fans: "Knicks never give the young players all teh minutes and just let them make mistakes so they develop"

Knicks give young player all the minutes and just let him make mistakes so he develops

Knicks fans: "THIS GUY SUCKS!!!!!"


This isnt how it works. Players need to earn minutes. Knox was the same player from the beginning of the season to the end. Chucking bad shots with seemingly zero direction. Was taking the same awful shots at an awful rate from November to April. That isnt helping anyone. Obviously the issues stem further than just Knox's performance, but he had no business being on the floor as much as he was last season.


Sure it's "how it works". What, he had to beat out Mario?

#1 - the team WANTED to lose games
#2 - the team wanted to force feed Knox time to accelerate development
#3 - the FO views Knox as a player they have hope for.
#4 - I'd agree Knox got too many minutes, maybe, but so what?
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#608 » by KnickFan33 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:48 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks fans: "Knicks never give the young players all teh minutes and just let them make mistakes so they develop"

Knicks give young player all the minutes and just let him make mistakes so he develops

Knicks fans: "THIS GUY SUCKS!!!!!"


This isnt how it works. Players need to earn minutes. Knox was the same player from the beginning of the season to the end. Chucking bad shots with seemingly zero direction. Was taking the same awful shots at an awful rate from November to April. That isnt helping anyone. Obviously the issues stem further than just Knox's performance, but he had no business being on the floor as much as he was last season.


Sure it's "how it works". What, he had to beat out Mario?

#1 - the team WANTED to lose games
#2 - the team wanted to force feed Knox time to accelerate development
#3 - the FO views Knox as a player they have hope for.
#4 - I'd agree Knox got too many minutes, maybe, but so what?


I have no qualms with 1, 3, nor 4. 2 though... Yes they were trying to accelerate development, but all he developed was bad habits.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#609 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:04 pm

KnickFan33 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
This isnt how it works. Players need to earn minutes. Knox was the same player from the beginning of the season to the end. Chucking bad shots with seemingly zero direction. Was taking the same awful shots at an awful rate from November to April. That isnt helping anyone. Obviously the issues stem further than just Knox's performance, but he had no business being on the floor as much as he was last season.


Sure it's "how it works". What, he had to beat out Mario?

#1 - the team WANTED to lose games
#2 - the team wanted to force feed Knox time to accelerate development
#3 - the FO views Knox as a player they have hope for.
#4 - I'd agree Knox got too many minutes, maybe, but so what?


I have no qualms with 1, 3, nor 4. 2 though... Yes they were trying to accelerate development, but all he developed was bad habits.


Possibly. Trust me, you know I gave Fiz a lot of grief in here during the season. Probably too much.

Only thing I've got as a possible retort, one I can't say I believe, but a possible view of their minds, is that there is something about how Knox profiles, mentality wise, where they feel he needed that sink of swim experience, and that gaining confidence against pros by that was paramount, and that he'd be responsive to undoing bad habits.

Just guessing.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#610 » by blueNorange » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:03 pm

wonder if knox can be a better defender if he added 15-20 pounds and became a power forward.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#611 » by Knicksfan20 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:05 pm

blueNorange wrote:wonder if knox can be a better defender if he added 15-20 pounds and became a power forward.

He seems mentally lost out there on defense. His defensive instincts are non existent
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#612 » by knicksh20b » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:09 am

Knicksfan20 wrote:
blueNorange wrote:wonder if knox can be a better defender if he added 15-20 pounds and became a power forward.

He seems mentally lost out there on defense. His defensive instincts are non existent


He needs to get pissed off when he gets scored on. Take it like a personal challenge (which it probably is, since teams are probably targeting him)
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#613 » by Ray Williams » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:23 am

blueNorange wrote:wonder if knox can be a better defender if he added 15-20 pounds and became a power forward.


I see that as the position he’s going to naturally grow into. His body at 22 is not going to resemble the 18 year old version.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#614 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:29 am

blueNorange wrote:wonder if knox can be a better defender if he added 15-20 pounds and became a power forward.


i think he would defend the 4 muuuuch better
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#615 » by RHODEY » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:04 pm



Knox talk @~2:45
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#616 » by Ray Williams » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:55 pm

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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#617 » by Hes_On_Fire » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:11 pm

Ah yes, the celebrated beach photos like the ones that Trey Burke took last year with Mudiay.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#618 » by Papi_swav » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:59 am

I agree with Calipari .. Knicks have to be patient with Knox, I am a believer in him. He has too much tools and his physical attributes are too good for him not to succeed. I think his floor is Rudy Gay. He won't be great next year but I think by his contract year he should be a major contributer.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#619 » by TBri1974 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:19 am

Papi_swav wrote:I agree with Calipari .. Knicks have to be patient with Knox, I am a believer in him. He has too much tools and his physical attributes are too good for him not to succeed. I think his floor is Rudy Gay. He won't be great next year but I think by his contract year he should be a major contributer.


I think Knox and Frank are a lot better than they've shown. Let's see if they are developed this year. I really believe Frank will be a hybrid of Payton and Butler. Maybe not as good as either, but that type of trajectory. Knox does have all the tools, he just needs to improve his confidence, shot selection, and defensive work.
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Re: Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox 

Post#620 » by Papi_swav » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:24 am

TBri1974 wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:I agree with Calipari .. Knicks have to be patient with Knox, I am a believer in him. He has too much tools and his physical attributes are too good for him not to succeed. I think his floor is Rudy Gay. He won't be great next year but I think by his contract year he should be a major contributer.


I think Knox and Frank are a lot better than they've shown. Let's see if they are developed this year. I really believe Frank will be a hybrid of Payton and Butler. Maybe not as good as either, but that type of trajectory. Knox does have all the tools, he just needs to improve his confidence, shot selection, and defensive work.

Same here but I see Frank as a Doug Christie type player, which will be great.

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