ImageImageImageImageImage

Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

Moderators: GONYK, Thugger HBC, Jeff Van Gully, King of Canada, j4remi, Capn'O, mrpoetryNmotion, mpharris36, Deeeez Knicks, NoLayupRule, K-DOT

Infinitimind
Sophomore
Posts: 249
And1: 164
Joined: May 23, 2018
 

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1941 » by Infinitimind » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:58 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
stuporman wrote:I cannot help but be fascinated and intrigued by a back court comprised of 6-7 RJ as primary ball handler/facilitator and 6-7 Frank as the point of attack defender.

The problem would be a lack of shooting but most specifically Frank's 3ball because if he doesn't hit that at a decent clip it won't ever work for extended mins.


No penetration, like those old Cinemax soft cores.


Have you seen rj play before, that his game. He didn’t average 20 plus hitting jump shot. Frank can also get to the paint using pick and roll which he excel in Europe with. We also have randle who can get to the paint.
User avatar
god shammgod
Knicks Forum Crazy Board Uncle
Posts: 94,352
And1: 52,723
Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Location: Never Too Early to Tank

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1942 » by god shammgod » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:09 pm

rj needs minutes no matter what. if they didn't agree they shouldn't have drafted him. forget minutes, i'm gonna be really disappointed if he don't start. hold him accountable by yelling at him a lot if need be.
Image
eagle54
Pro Prospect
Posts: 856
And1: 433
Joined: Sep 09, 2016
Location: France
     

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1943 » by eagle54 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:12 pm

Heurtel is out for the World Cup so now Frank could be starter for the French squad.
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 57,737
And1: 25,500
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1944 » by GONYK » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:33 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:The point is there is different ways to get a point across. What team in their right mind that is in a full rebuild gonna cut minutes from 19 years olds? Hell yeah that is funny as hell to me.


The Knicks. Last year.
taj2133
General Manager
Posts: 7,504
And1: 2,971
Joined: Jun 14, 2009

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1945 » by taj2133 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:59 am

I don't why you guys defend frank to much and its obvious he is not playing well over seas right now and it only 2 game so far. Frank shouldn't get dominated by turkey and tunishia both of those teams don't have nba level guards so frank should dominate but he is not. Frank is shooting 20 percent from field and 16 percent from three while averaging 4.5 points and 5.5 assist not great numbers. If this was rj barret or knox shooting 20 percent you guys would call them out to if there were playing like crap but not frank its kind of a double standard.
User avatar
bearadonisdna
RealGM
Posts: 12,434
And1: 2,076
Joined: Jul 07, 2012

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1946 » by bearadonisdna » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:06 am

taj2133 wrote:I don't why you guys defend frank to much and its obvious he is not playing well over seas right now and it only 2 game so far. Frank shouldn't get dominated by turkey and tunishia both of those teams don't have nba level guards so frank should dominate but he is not. Frank is shooting 20 percent from field and 16 percent from three while averaging 4.5 points and 5.5 assist not great numbers. If this was rj barret or knox shooting 20 percent you guys would call them out to if there were playing like crap but not frank its kind of a double standard.


Maybe it's because Frank plays d.
User avatar
Garbagelo
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,461
And1: 1,461
Joined: Jul 17, 2015

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1947 » by Garbagelo » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:02 am

taj2133 wrote:I don't why you guys defend frank to much and its obvious he is not playing well over seas right now and it only 2 game so far. Frank shouldn't get dominated by turkey and tunishia both of those teams don't have nba level guards so frank should dominate but he is not. Frank is shooting 20 percent from field and 16 percent from three while averaging 4.5 points and 5.5 assist not great numbers. If this was rj barret or knox shooting 20 percent you guys would call them out to if there were playing like crap but not frank its kind of a double standard.


Pot meet kettle, Taj2133, the double standard master. You're really going out of your way (since forever)to put down Frank like he has killed your dog. Frank helps the team and you know it.

bearadonisdna wrote:Maybe it's because Frank plays d.


Elite defense
User avatar
FatboyRealPetty
RealGM
Posts: 23,983
And1: 13,641
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Queens
 

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1948 » by FatboyRealPetty » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:32 am

bearadonisdna wrote:
taj2133 wrote:I don't why you guys defend frank to much and its obvious he is not playing well over seas right now and it only 2 game so far. Frank shouldn't get dominated by turkey and tunishia both of those teams don't have nba level guards so frank should dominate but he is not. Frank is shooting 20 percent from field and 16 percent from three while averaging 4.5 points and 5.5 assist not great numbers. If this was rj barret or knox shooting 20 percent you guys would call them out to if there were playing like crap but not frank its kind of a double standard.


Maybe it's because Frank plays d.


So? We knew he was a good defender since his rookie season. Don’t get me wrong being a good defender is a positive but that was never the issue with frank he has to make a leap on offense.. at least become a serviceable 3D player the least.


Jarret jack started over you

Trey Burke started over you (he’s barely even in the league right now)

Mudiay acquired, Dennis acquired, Payton acquired

If I was Ntilkina I would be in kill mode every time i stepped on the court...

Stop clanging onto he plays defense. You don’t draft somebody 8th pick and be content with him being just some kind of defensive specialist

Unless dude is about to start pulling in defensive player of the years I’m tired of hearing about how good his defense is. Show me something on offense now... it’s about to be his 3rd year this is the time to start making progress
Your only as real as the company you keep - tsu surf
Dave_R
Ballboy
Posts: 6
And1: 3
Joined: Jul 20, 2019
       

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1949 » by Dave_R » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:42 pm

Ntilikina loses value if he is unable to play point guard. Let him have a chance -- see whether his offense has improved enough to allow his defense to compensate.
User avatar
Fat Kat
RealGM
Posts: 25,452
And1: 14,817
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
     

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1950 » by Fat Kat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:59 pm

This is how he stacked up against the competition last year

Image

Image
All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
User avatar
CharlesOakley
Starter
Posts: 2,195
And1: 1,578
Joined: Jun 27, 2006

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1951 » by CharlesOakley » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:00 pm

Defense is so undervalued by morons.
User avatar
K-DOT
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 10,841
And1: 13,533
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
         

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1952 » by K-DOT » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:26 pm

Fat Kat wrote:This is how he stacked up against the competition last year

Image

Image

So, even by those standards, he's still our best defensive guard. And like, really the only stat there that's useful is dFG%, and even then, it's an incomplete stat. So let's look at some individual defensive metrics.

https://stats.nba.com/players/ball-handler/#!?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TypeGrouping=defensive&CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*ntili

Frank rated above average as a PnR defender last year. While I don't love this stat for a variety of reasons, mostly that a lot of PnR play comes off of secondary actions, and this only accounts for the scoring of guys running PnRs, there is stuff you can glean from it. Mostly that guys turned the ball over 26% of the time against Frank in the PnR. And considering how often PnRs are used, it would be helpful to have a guy defending them who forces a turnover more than a quarter of the time, no? To be fair, Burke actually graded extremely well in the PnR defense last year with us, at around 92nd percentile, but then dropped to 23rd percentile in Dallas, so make of that what you will.


https://stats.nba.com/players/isolation/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TypeGrouping=defensive&CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*ntili

Now, I seem to recall you going on about how we can't play Frank at PG because he can't iso, and isolations are the very most important aspect of guards games, hands down, no contest. So, if we have a guy who makes opponents shoot, say, 30% off of isolations, that would be good for us, right? Frank's so good at defending isolations that he makes opposing players look like Frank when they isolate. Let that sink in for a second. And pretty much everyone agrees he was worse this year than last year, so that means he can get better when he's already better than 95% of the league statistically.

Like, he just turned 21 years old and is already this good defensively. If all he does is get his 3 pointer consistent, he's an extremely valuable piece on any team. Sure, maybe we overrate his defense a bit, but he is legitimately good by most individual metrics. Is he a PG? Probably not in the NBA. Cause you are right, he's not good enough of a creator off the dribble to make it. But he could absolutely play the 2 or 3 if he gets his shot consistent.
BAF Lakers:

Darius Garland/Jalen Lecque
Cam Johnson/Malik Monk
Keita Bates-Diop
Darius Bazley/Juan Hernangomez
Goga Bitadze/Dwight Howard

Reserves: Pat McCaw, Isaac Bonga, Melvin Frazier, Gorgui Dieng
IR: Josh Jackson's contract (rip)
User avatar
Fat Kat
RealGM
Posts: 25,452
And1: 14,817
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
     

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1953 » by Fat Kat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:32 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:This is how he stacked up against the competition last year

Image

Image


Now, I seem to recall you going on about how we can't play Frank at PG because he can't iso, and isolations are the very most important aspect of guards games, hands down, no contest.


Refresh my memory and quote the post where I said this
All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
Knicks Byke
Analyst
Posts: 3,076
And1: 2,122
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
   

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1954 » by Knicks Byke » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:33 pm

Kid could be so marketable if he wasn't so trash.
User avatar
K-DOT
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 10,841
And1: 13,533
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
         

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1955 » by K-DOT » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
Now, I seem to recall you going on about how we can't play Frank at PG because he can't iso, and isolations are the very most important aspect of guards games, hands down, no contest.


Refresh my memory and quote the post where I said this

Literally a page ago

Now comes the part where you say "but actually, I said..."

Go on. This is what I don't get about you. I know I've given you the same stats over and over, yet you continue to pretend they don't exist for some reason. It's like you don't want to admit Frank's good at defense or something, and use pseudo-analytics as a shield, then get defensive when someone points out the flaws in the stats you use

When you use stats for defense, you have to understand what they actually say. You don't, you just like to find the ones which you think say what you want them to say. When I post stats, I do so with the disclaimer that they're incomplete, cause stats usually only tell you one or two things. Like how you love the DRTG stat that says DSJ was better than Frank. You wanna know why that's incomplete? Cause it's heavily reliant on team play. Frank played roughly half of his minutes with THJ. His DRTG then? 114.7. In the half of his minutes without THJ, his DRTG was 104, a difference of nearly 11.

Which explains why his team defensive stats are dogsh*t, cause he played so many minutes with terrible defensive players. The only exception is Dot, who was also really only effective when paired with Frank

Defensive stats have a very limited scope. You can't just post general stats and say "there it is," you have to know what stat means what
BAF Lakers:

Darius Garland/Jalen Lecque
Cam Johnson/Malik Monk
Keita Bates-Diop
Darius Bazley/Juan Hernangomez
Goga Bitadze/Dwight Howard

Reserves: Pat McCaw, Isaac Bonga, Melvin Frazier, Gorgui Dieng
IR: Josh Jackson's contract (rip)
User avatar
Fat Kat
RealGM
Posts: 25,452
And1: 14,817
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
     

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1956 » by Fat Kat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:07 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
Now, I seem to recall you going on about how we can't play Frank at PG because he can't iso, and isolations are the very most important aspect of guards games, hands down, no contest.


Refresh my memory and quote the post where I said this

Literally a page ago

Now comes the part where you say "but actually, I said..."

Go on. This is what I don't get about you. I know I've given you the same stats over and over, yet you continue to pretend they don't exist for some reason. It's like you don't want to admit Frank's good at defense or something, and use pseudo-analytics as a shield, then get defensive when someone points out the flaws in the stats you use

When you use stats for defense, you have to understand what they actually say. You don't, you just like to find the ones which you think say what you want them to say. When I post stats, I do so with the disclaimer that they're incomplete, cause stats usually only tell you one or two things. Like how you love the DRTG stat that says DSJ was better than Frank. You wanna know why that's incomplete? Cause it's heavily reliant on team play. Frank played roughly half of his minutes with THJ. His DRTG then? 114.7. In the half of his minutes without THJ, his DRTG was 104, a difference of nearly 11.

Which explains why his team defensive stats are dogsh*t, cause he played so many minutes with terrible defensive players. The only exception is Dot, who was also really only effective when paired with Frank

Defensive stats have a very limited scope. You can't just post general stats and say "there it is," you have to know what stat means what


Miss me with your bullchit. If I said it, quote it. Otherwise take your weirdo crap somewhere else. I honestly ignore your post 80% of the time. If you want to discuss guard penetration, do that.
All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
User avatar
K-DOT
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 10,841
And1: 13,533
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
         

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1957 » by K-DOT » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:14 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
Refresh my memory and quote the post where I said this

Literally a page ago

Now comes the part where you say "but actually, I said..."

Go on. This is what I don't get about you. I know I've given you the same stats over and over, yet you continue to pretend they don't exist for some reason. It's like you don't want to admit Frank's good at defense or something, and use pseudo-analytics as a shield, then get defensive when someone points out the flaws in the stats you use

When you use stats for defense, you have to understand what they actually say. You don't, you just like to find the ones which you think say what you want them to say. When I post stats, I do so with the disclaimer that they're incomplete, cause stats usually only tell you one or two things. Like how you love the DRTG stat that says DSJ was better than Frank. You wanna know why that's incomplete? Cause it's heavily reliant on team play. Frank played roughly half of his minutes with THJ. His DRTG then? 114.7. In the half of his minutes without THJ, his DRTG was 104, a difference of nearly 11.

Which explains why his team defensive stats are dogsh*t, cause he played so many minutes with terrible defensive players. The only exception is Dot, who was also really only effective when paired with Frank

Defensive stats have a very limited scope. You can't just post general stats and say "there it is," you have to know what stat means what


Miss me with your bullchit. If I said it, quote it. Otherwise take your weirdo crap somewhere else. I honestly ignore your post 80% of the time. If you want to discuss guard penetration, do that.

Someone's upset they got called out on their bullsh*t lol
BAF Lakers:

Darius Garland/Jalen Lecque
Cam Johnson/Malik Monk
Keita Bates-Diop
Darius Bazley/Juan Hernangomez
Goga Bitadze/Dwight Howard

Reserves: Pat McCaw, Isaac Bonga, Melvin Frazier, Gorgui Dieng
IR: Josh Jackson's contract (rip)
User avatar
Fat Kat
RealGM
Posts: 25,452
And1: 14,817
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
     

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1958 » by Fat Kat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:20 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Literally a page ago

Now comes the part where you say "but actually, I said..."

Go on. This is what I don't get about you. I know I've given you the same stats over and over, yet you continue to pretend they don't exist for some reason. It's like you don't want to admit Frank's good at defense or something, and use pseudo-analytics as a shield, then get defensive when someone points out the flaws in the stats you use

When you use stats for defense, you have to understand what they actually say. You don't, you just like to find the ones which you think say what you want them to say. When I post stats, I do so with the disclaimer that they're incomplete, cause stats usually only tell you one or two things. Like how you love the DRTG stat that says DSJ was better than Frank. You wanna know why that's incomplete? Cause it's heavily reliant on team play. Frank played roughly half of his minutes with THJ. His DRTG then? 114.7. In the half of his minutes without THJ, his DRTG was 104, a difference of nearly 11.

Which explains why his team defensive stats are dogsh*t, cause he played so many minutes with terrible defensive players. The only exception is Dot, who was also really only effective when paired with Frank

Defensive stats have a very limited scope. You can't just post general stats and say "there it is," you have to know what stat means what


Miss me with your bullchit. If I said it, quote it. Otherwise take your weirdo crap somewhere else. I honestly ignore your post 80% of the time. If you want to discuss guard penetration, do that.

Someone's upset they got called out on their bullsh*t lol


Not upset. Just looking for that quote.

Slow down and look at yourself.
All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
User avatar
K-DOT
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 10,841
And1: 13,533
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
         

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1959 » by K-DOT » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:27 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
Miss me with your bullchit. If I said it, quote it. Otherwise take your weirdo crap somewhere else. I honestly ignore your post 80% of the time. If you want to discuss guard penetration, do that.

Someone's upset they got called out on their bullsh*t lol


Not upset. Just looking for that quote.

Slow down and look at yourself.

If you're too lazy to literally look a page earlier, that's on you

Regardless,

Spoiler:
Fat Kat wrote:
This isn’t Hoosiers. Guards need to be able to beat their man one on one. It collapses the defense and creates open shots.



And now comes the part where you pretend like you didn't mean what you said.

Are you also gonna pretend you didn't use DSJ's DRTG being better than Frank's as proof Frank can't be good defensively?

Take my weirdo crap somewhere else lol. So salty because you can't handle being proven wrong.
BAF Lakers:

Darius Garland/Jalen Lecque
Cam Johnson/Malik Monk
Keita Bates-Diop
Darius Bazley/Juan Hernangomez
Goga Bitadze/Dwight Howard

Reserves: Pat McCaw, Isaac Bonga, Melvin Frazier, Gorgui Dieng
IR: Josh Jackson's contract (rip)
Thugger HBC
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 48,349
And1: 17,026
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Defense+efficient offense=titles...what do you have?
       

Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1960 » by Thugger HBC » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:34 pm

So.....how many minutes are we predicting Frank plays next season? He'll definitely have comp at the 1-3 positions. I doubt he starts.

I guess if he truly did get taller perhaps some small ball 4 is in the works for him.
If winning matters, the role shouldn't.....the results should.

The ...02% of the fanbse be like...http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1542565&start=140#start_here

Return to New York Knicks


cron