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Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#641 » by Cookies4Life » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:56 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:I really wish Frank had strung together a couple weeks of good games in a row. Honestly I don't even really remember him putting good numbers in back to back games. You'd think he'd get hot from the field at least once this season.



A lot of the things that are criticized about his game aren't discussed on this forum as far as the specific issues on why he struggled last year.

He averaged 6.5 shots per game last year. If he hit just ONE FGA attempt more last season, his shooting averages would be around 50%.

That's the main reason why i don't put too much stock into his shooting percentages. Who cares what the shooting numbers look like if you're only taking 5-6 shots per game. Your efficiency is never going to look good if you take such a low amount of shots. I would've loved to seen what he could provide if he decided to shoot like Knox who seemingly believes he has a green light for every attempt he puts up.

He had 8 games last year where he put up 10 or more shots in a game. 4 of those games he eclipsed his career highs from his rookie year. He had 2 16 point games, a 17 point game and his career high of 18 points.

He put together those stat lines in back to back games in October and in late December. There was a big gap there in November/early December where he was accruing a bunch of DNP's for no reason.

He needs to start shooting the ball a lot more and not defer as much. I know that goes against the way he plays the game but obviously the fan base is enamored with how many points you can put up rather than playing the game the right way. It was actually refreshing to see a player trying to get his teammates involved when we had such ridiculous chuckers on this team like Trier, Burke, Hardaway Jr and Knox. I'd rather he continues to keep playing the way he does rather than turn into one of those one dimensional ballhogs.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#642 » by Jeff Van Gully » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:36 pm

Galou wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:Not sure why this thread is still up. Frank doesn’t warrant all this back and forth. Maybe I’m missing something. Maybe I need another tour.

Word yo

It's over.

Frank will be forgotten just like Jerian Grant.

It's time to move on. The kid don't got the juice

NEXT!!!!!


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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#643 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:08 pm

Cookies4Life wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:I really wish Frank had strung together a couple weeks of good games in a row. Honestly I don't even really remember him putting good numbers in back to back games. You'd think he'd get hot from the field at least once this season.



A lot of the things that are criticized about his game aren't discussed on this forum as far as the specific issues on why he struggled last year.

He averaged 6.5 shots per game last year. If he hit just ONE FGA attempt more last season, his shooting averages would be around 50%.

That's the main reason why i don't put too much stock into his shooting percentages. Who cares what the shooting numbers look like if you're only taking 5-6 shots per game. Your efficiency is never going to look good if you take such a low amount of shots. I would've loved to seen what he could provide if he decided to shoot like Knox who seemingly believes he has a green light for every attempt he puts up.

He had 8 games last year where he put up 10 or more shots in a game. 4 of those games he eclipsed his career highs from his rookie year. He had 2 16 point games, a 17 point game and his career high of 18 points.

He put together those stat lines in back to back games in October and in late December. There was a big gap there in November/early December where he was accruing a bunch of DNP's for no reason.

He needs to start shooting the ball a lot more and not defer as much. I know that goes against the way he plays the game but obviously the fan base is enamored with how many points you can put up rather than playing the game the right way. It was actually refreshing to see a player trying to get his teammates involved when we had such ridiculous chuckers on this team like Trier, Burke, Hardaway Jr and Knox. I'd rather he continues to keep playing the way he does rather than turn into one of those one dimensional ballhogs.


Do you have a citation on players taking a low amount of shots= low efficiency. Trier only took a shot and half more than Frank 10% better than Frank from the field and about 12% from 3. I don't think the extra shot would all of sudden jump Frank's efficiency to where as high as Trier's. Lance Thomas took less shots and had a higher TS% than Frank.

I don't like using hypothetical's when it comes to players that don't have a history of success and Frank got worse this year in similar amount of minutes with similar usage. His ORTG and DRTG got worse from last year. So did his TRB%, defensive win shares, defensive plus minus, and TS%. He doesn't rebound only had 4 games with 5+ rebounds. Doesn't really make plays for others averaged less assist from last year too.

It's kinda strange you want him to play the same way when he's one of the worst players in the league.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#644 » by Cookies4Life » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:36 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:I really wish Frank had strung together a couple weeks of good games in a row. Honestly I don't even really remember him putting good numbers in back to back games. You'd think he'd get hot from the field at least once this season.



A lot of the things that are criticized about his game aren't discussed on this forum as far as the specific issues on why he struggled last year.

He averaged 6.5 shots per game last year. If he hit just ONE FGA attempt more last season, his shooting averages would be around 50%.

That's the main reason why i don't put too much stock into his shooting percentages. Who cares what the shooting numbers look like if you're only taking 5-6 shots per game. Your efficiency is never going to look good if you take such a low amount of shots. I would've loved to seen what he could provide if he decided to shoot like Knox who seemingly believes he has a green light for every attempt he puts up.

He had 8 games last year where he put up 10 or more shots in a game. 4 of those games he eclipsed his career highs from his rookie year. He had 2 16 point games, a 17 point game and his career high of 18 points.

He put together those stat lines in back to back games in October and in late December. There was a big gap there in November/early December where he was accruing a bunch of DNP's for no reason.

He needs to start shooting the ball a lot more and not defer as much. I know that goes against the way he plays the game but obviously the fan base is enamored with how many points you can put up rather than playing the game the right way. It was actually refreshing to see a player trying to get his teammates involved when we had such ridiculous chuckers on this team like Trier, Burke, Hardaway Jr and Knox. I'd rather he continues to keep playing the way he does rather than turn into one of those one dimensional ballhogs.


Do you have a citation on players taking a low amount of shots= low efficiency. Trier only took a shot and half more than Frank 10% better than Frank from the field and about 12% from 3. I don't think the extra shot would all of sudden jump Frank's efficiency to where as high as Trier's. Lance Thomas took less shots and had a higher TS% than Frank.

I don't like using hypothetical's when it comes to players that don't have a history of success and Frank got worse this year in similar amount of minutes with similar usage. His ORTG and DRTG got worse from last year. So did his TRB%, defensive win shares, defensive plus minus, and TS%. He doesn't rebound only had 4 games with 5+ rebounds. Doesn't really make plays for others averaged less assist from last year too.

It's kinda strange you want him to play the same way when he's one of the worst players in the league.


Nice post and sorry in advance for my long response. First and foremost I am quite cognizant that he needs to improve in all facets of his game. Every single one of them. I'm not blind to the idea that he's still very much a project- as he was considered when we drafted him- and would require at least 4+ seasons to see the dividends pay off for drafting him so highly. What I meant in my previous post is at his core, he plays the game the right way. He makes the right reads almost always and that's on both sides of the ball. His ballhandling needs to be sharpened, his passes need to be less telegraphed and he needs to start developing a consistent 3 point shot as well as learning to finish around the rim more effectively. He needs a lot of work but the potential is there.

And I'm not going into advance metrics, I can crunch the numbers and come back to you- but yes Frank averaged a little over 2 FG completions out of 6 FGA's per game. He hits just ONE more shot and you're talking about a guy whose FG% is hovering at .500.

If Frank was hoisting up 15 FGA's like Knox does every night and still had those shooting numbers he exhibited while shooting just 6 times a game than I'd look at it from a more cumbersome light. You can't possibly criticize a 20 year old player this much for his shooting woes when he's only attempting a handful of shots per game. As I stated earlier, he only attempted double digit attempts in 8 games all of last year.

He has tons of potential and I firmly stand behind that remark. Neither coaching staff (although Hornacek proved to be better than Fizdale in how to utilize Frank,) did a good job in developing him- how are you going to take a guy who was drafted as our potential PG of the future and start him at the 3 spot? How do you allow expiring guys like Burke (early in the year) and Emmanuel Mudiay (most of the year) to start at the 1?

What did we get out of Mudiay putting up good numbers for 3 quarters most games and than go into a nosedive in production in most 4th quarters with his terrible shot selection and high turn over rate? Fizdale said he's happy to see that he helped Emmanuel increase his value now this upcoming offseason. how exactly did that benefit this franchise in the long term? This is a throwaway year, the guys who should be getting the majority of minutes are the ones who remain under contract past this season. His rotations were baffling at times, and that's putting it very nicely.

I have no idea why people want him out so badly now. We're not going to get good value trading him, we all knew he was a project that would require a lot of time to develop. It would be really refreshing to see our fanbase actually be patient with some of our lottery guys- I thought that was the whole idea of tanking- getting young guys with potential and giving them several seasons to grow together.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#645 » by spree2kawhi » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:02 pm

Still the eye test reveals Frank couldn't have handled shooting at a higher volume and also isn't a good shooter in general.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#646 » by malik959 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:53 pm

Cookies4Life wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:

A lot of the things that are criticized about his game aren't discussed on this forum as far as the specific issues on why he struggled last year.

He averaged 6.5 shots per game last year. If he hit just ONE FGA attempt more last season, his shooting averages would be around 50%.

That's the main reason why i don't put too much stock into his shooting percentages. Who cares what the shooting numbers look like if you're only taking 5-6 shots per game. Your efficiency is never going to look good if you take such a low amount of shots. I would've loved to seen what he could provide if he decided to shoot like Knox who seemingly believes he has a green light for every attempt he puts up.

He had 8 games last year where he put up 10 or more shots in a game. 4 of those games he eclipsed his career highs from his rookie year. He had 2 16 point games, a 17 point game and his career high of 18 points.

He put together those stat lines in back to back games in October and in late December. There was a big gap there in November/early December where he was accruing a bunch of DNP's for no reason.

He needs to start shooting the ball a lot more and not defer as much. I know that goes against the way he plays the game but obviously the fan base is enamored with how many points you can put up rather than playing the game the right way. It was actually refreshing to see a player trying to get his teammates involved when we had such ridiculous chuckers on this team like Trier, Burke, Hardaway Jr and Knox. I'd rather he continues to keep playing the way he does rather than turn into one of those one dimensional ballhogs.


Do you have a citation on players taking a low amount of shots= low efficiency. Trier only took a shot and half more than Frank 10% better than Frank from the field and about 12% from 3. I don't think the extra shot would all of sudden jump Frank's efficiency to where as high as Trier's. Lance Thomas took less shots and had a higher TS% than Frank.

I don't like using hypothetical's when it comes to players that don't have a history of success and Frank got worse this year in similar amount of minutes with similar usage. His ORTG and DRTG got worse from last year. So did his TRB%, defensive win shares, defensive plus minus, and TS%. He doesn't rebound only had 4 games with 5+ rebounds. Doesn't really make plays for others averaged less assist from last year too.

It's kinda strange you want him to play the same way when he's one of the worst players in the league.


Nice post and sorry in advance for my long response. First and foremost I am quite cognizant that he needs to improve in all facets of his game. Every single one of them. I'm not blind to the idea that he's still very much a project- as he was considered when we drafted him- and would require at least 4+ seasons to see the dividends pay off for drafting him so highly. What I meant in my previous post is at his core, he plays the game the right way. He makes the right reads almost always and that's on both sides of the ball. His ballhandling needs to be sharpened, his passes need to be less telegraphed and he needs to start developing a consistent 3 point shot as well as learning to finish around the rim more effectively. He needs a lot of work but the potential is there.

And I'm not going into advance metrics, I can crunch the numbers and come back to you- but yes Frank averaged a little over 2 FG completions out of 6 FGA's per game. He hits just ONE more shot and you're talking about a guy whose FG% is hovering at .500.

If Frank was hoisting up 15 FGA's like Knox does every night and still had those shooting numbers he exhibited while shooting just 6 times a game than I'd look at it from a more cumbersome light. You can't possibly criticize a 20 year old player this much for his shooting woes when he's only attempting a handful of shots per game. As I stated earlier, he only attempted double digit attempts in 8 games all of last year.

He has tons of potential and I firmly stand behind that remark. Neither coaching staff (although Hornacek proved to be better than Fizdale in how to utilize Frank,) did a good job in developing him- how are you going to take a guy who was drafted as our potential PG of the future and start him at the 3 spot? How do you allow expiring guys like Burke (early in the year) and Emmanuel Mudiay (most of the year) to start at the 1?

What did we get out of Mudiay putting up good numbers for 3 quarters most games and than go into a nosedive in production in most 4th quarters with his terrible shot selection and high turn over rate? Fizdale said he's happy to see that he helped Emmanuel increase his value now this upcoming offseason. how exactly did that benefit this franchise in the long term? This is a throwaway year, the guys who should be getting the majority of minutes are the ones who remain under contract past this season. His rotations were baffling at times, and that's putting it very nicely.

I have no idea why people want him out so badly now. We're not going to get good value trading him, we all knew he was a project that would require a lot of time to develop. It would be really refreshing to see our fanbase actually be patient with some of our lottery guys- I thought that was the whole idea of tanking- getting young guys with potential and giving them several seasons to grow together.


A lot of New Yorkers see today and never tomorrow and believe what you see is what you get as if this "KID" can not improve. He has great form, he's getting stronger, he has great work ethic, coaches love him, other players on other teams see his potential, BUT OF COURSE, our FANS want him gone...... :nonono: I'm still high on Frank and I see his potential. When Frank gets more than 25 minutes on the court he produces and has shown that he can run the team better than any other Pg on the team. In the few minutes he played when he came back he showed that he knew how to get the whole team involved. The ball moves more fluidly, because of course his first option is passing. I loved having both Frank, Thomas, and Mitch on the court at the same time, which was a beautiful sight on defense, would love it that much more with Durant and Zion in place of Thomas.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#647 » by Galou » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:24 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Galou wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:Not sure why this thread is still up. Frank doesn’t warrant all this back and forth. Maybe I’m missing something. Maybe I need another tour.

Word yo

It's over.

Frank will be forgotten just like Jerian Grant.

It's time to move on. The kid don't got the juice

NEXT!!!!!


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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#648 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:24 pm

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#649 » by Tron Carter » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:53 pm

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#650 » by taj2133 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:37 pm

Frank Ntilikina needs to become a better outside shooter. It’s that simple, according to the Knicks brass.

As the team gears up for another draft with a certified top-five pick, Knicks executives still proclaim high hopes for their past two lottery picks: Ntilikina and rookie Kevin Knox.

Judging by the lukewarm praise Wednesday from team president Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry, the Frenchman seems to have a longer way to go. Ntilikina averaged 5.7 points this season on 33.7 percent shooting.

In his second season after former president Phil Jackson took him with the eighth pick, Ntilikina played in just 43 games — just two after Jan. 27 — because of a groin strain. Perry ran the Sacramento draft in 2017 and took budding point guard D’Aaron Fox at No. 5.

“Frank, he was saddled by injury half the season,’’ Perry said in a season-ending state-of-the-Knicks interview with The Post.

“That was unfortunate for him. The kid is highly engaged. This will be a big summer for him. He’s still [20] years old. When you talk about both of them together, it’s such a rush to judgment on young players. I say this all the time. Kevin Knox is 19. We can’t close our eyes, snap our fingers and make him 23. If you can do that, let us know how.’’

Ntilikina will be 21 on July 28 — and if he’s still a Knick on that date is questionable. The Post has reported the Knicks will be active trying to deal him on draft night. They could need some extra salary-cap space, as he stands to make $5 million next season.

“Frank has shown he has ability to be a plus-defender in this league — guard multiple positions,’’ Perry said. “We’ll continue to work on him to develop his confidence to be able to make an open 3-point shot. That’s the goal for him. He’s got to be able to do that — to stand out there and make an open 3-point shot. He knows that. He’ll work toward that this summer and see what happens.”

https://nypost.com/2019/04/18/which-recent-lottery-pick-got-a-better-review-from-knicks-brass/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#651 » by mpharris36 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:36 pm

sounds very much like Frank is a part of the future because knicks brass see's the important of a guard that can play some on the ball and some off while defending multiple positions (in a positionless NBA). Also I agree, he really just needs a consistent 3 ball and he will have a nice roll in the NBA. So I am glad that is what they are stressing him to do.

Again I will reiterate it makes no sense to deal him this offseason coming off a down year and an injury. You would basically be moving him with no value. Bank on him working his ass off and consistently hitting 3's and if he does that he is a very strong piece to put along KD/Kyrie + Top 5 pick.
BAF Spurs:

C - Mo Bamba/Justin Patton
PF - Michael Porter Jr/Johnathan Williams/Kostas Antetokounmpo
SF - Mikal Bridges/Thanasis Antetokounmpo
SG - Luke Kennard/Lonnie Walker/KCP/Theo Pinson
PG - Frank Ntilikina/Elfrid Payton/Brad Wanamaker
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#652 » by Knicks Byke » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:04 pm

he just don't have the juice.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#653 » by mpharris36 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:08 pm

Knicks Byke wrote:he just don't have the juice.


i think a fair question that can be asked is that will his strengths and abilities be heightened with better talent around him? Role players tend to get exposed with there deficiencies if they are asked to do things they aren't capable of doing. If we have multiple go-to scorers on the team and frank settles into his role?

He's only 20...

When the team gets better you don't want a full team of alpha's...need to have some that don't mind fitting into a role.
BAF Spurs:

C - Mo Bamba/Justin Patton
PF - Michael Porter Jr/Johnathan Williams/Kostas Antetokounmpo
SF - Mikal Bridges/Thanasis Antetokounmpo
SG - Luke Kennard/Lonnie Walker/KCP/Theo Pinson
PG - Frank Ntilikina/Elfrid Payton/Brad Wanamaker
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#654 » by Richard4444 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:33 pm

mpharris36 wrote:sounds very much like Frank is a part of the future because knicks brass see's the important of a guard that can play some on the ball and some off while defending multiple positions (in a positionless NBA). Also I agree, he really just needs a consistent 3 ball and he will have a nice roll in the NBA. So I am glad that is what they are stressing him to do.

Again I will reiterate it makes no sense to deal him this offseason coming off a down year and an injury. You would basically be moving him with no value. Bank on him working his ass off and consistently hitting 3's and if he does that he is a very strong piece to put along KD/Kyrie + Top 5 pick.


1) I think Frank can be very useful in a off ball role if he improves his 3Pt shooting.

2) Frank is many years away of being an impact PG. He currently has not the agressiveness, dribbling, vision, leadership and emotional control to excel in this position.

3) The problem is the cap space. We will probably have to choose among Frank and others players. Frank has the bigger salary (4,9M). And if we opt to bring cheap players instead, we can eliminate two incomplete roster charges of the Cap Space, saving aditional 1,8M. We can bring four 1,5-2M players with Franks salary. We also need salary (and not incomplete roster charges) to trade for another star.

4) KP has lost value because the contusion. But the FO made a good deal. We cant descard the possibility of others teams see great vaue in Frank.

5) If we dont trade Frank in off season. There is a great possibility that he will be included as a salary filler in any trade for another star in the season anyway.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#655 » by Dantares » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:43 pm

Frank shot the 3 ball good in the preseason and all the regular season games in october. he had a really bad november then he shot good again in december. Then it was brutal the rest of the year. What the heck happened to his confidence?
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#656 » by BKAY » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:35 pm

Frank is consistently one of the better +/- players when he's on the court. In the short moments he and Mitch shared the court, they showed good chemistry. His defense is elite at a position that has routinely run wild on us. If he were to just be a consistent 3 threat on top of his game he is top tier role player at worst. And his stroke aint bad. His work ethic is praised by every single player and coach or executive who makes public comments on him. Not sure why so many people are consistently trying to tear this kid down and root for his failure. Some people have their mind made up that he doesnt work hard and doesnt like basketball, so it must be, despite all reports contradicting that.

There is no way we have seen the best version of Frank Ntilikina and imo he is on the precibus of figuring it out and god damn if I wont be mad if he's locking up Kyrie and sinking 3s against us.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#657 » by BKAY » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:46 pm

And if we are getting Kyrie and it comes down to keeping one of DSJ or Frank , you 100% keep Frank. I can already see the headlines if you keep DSJ in February. It starts with "DSJ thinks he's a starter in this league" then "DSJ unhappy with his current situation" then "Kyrie tells DSJ to stay his lane" then "DSJ demands trade" and so on and Knicks get forced into an unhappy player situation or bad trade.

With Frank and his mentality, for better or worse, I do not see scenarios like the above being a problem whatsoever. And you need guys like that with a potential locker room full of monster egos.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#658 » by Buttah304 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:00 am

BKAY wrote:And if we are getting Kyrie and it comes down to keeping one of DSJ or Frank , you 100% keep Frank. I can already see the headlines if you keep DSJ in February. It starts with "DSJ thinks he's a starter in this league" then "DSJ unhappy with his current situation" then "Kyrie tells DSJ to stay his lane" then "DSJ demands trade" and so on and Knicks get forced into an unhappy player situation or bad trade.

With Frank and his mentality, for better or worse, I do not see scenarios like the above being a problem whatsoever. And you need guys like that with a potential locker room full of monster egos.


If we get Kyrie I would LOVE to see DSJ coming off the bench in full attack mode. He can still average about 25-28 minutes per game and would constantly put pressure on seconds units. This seems like a perfect role for him and I simply believe he could be very valuable in that position.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#659 » by Johnny Firpo » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:03 am

I still believe in Frank. He just has too good of a tools/work ethic to not figure it out.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#660 » by NYKnickerbocker » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:37 am

Buttah304 wrote:
BKAY wrote:And if we are getting Kyrie and it comes down to keeping one of DSJ or Frank , you 100% keep Frank. I can already see the headlines if you keep DSJ in February. It starts with "DSJ thinks he's a starter in this league" then "DSJ unhappy with his current situation" then "Kyrie tells DSJ to stay his lane" then "DSJ demands trade" and so on and Knicks get forced into an unhappy player situation or bad trade.

With Frank and his mentality, for better or worse, I do not see scenarios like the above being a problem whatsoever. And you need guys like that with a potential locker room full of monster egos.


If we get Kyrie I would LOVE to see DSJ coming off the bench in full attack mode. He can still average about 25-28 minutes per game and would constantly put pressure on seconds units. This seems like a perfect role for him and I simply believe he could be very valuable in that position.
if he starts pouting like he did in Dallas, it’s not gunna work lol

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