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Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#801 » by K-DOT » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:32 am

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
knicksanity wrote:I'am the only one who thinks Frank has the UPSIDE on any of the Knicks players except for Mitch Rob (of course) or should I pinched myself rn?

:nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway:
*upside* on Frank is crazily better than any of the other Kicks players

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#802 » by knicksanity » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:34 am

K-DOT wrote:
knicksanity wrote:I'am the only one who thinks Frank has the UPSIDE on any of the Knicks players except for Mitch Rob (of course) or should I pinched myself rn?

:nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway:

You might not be the only one

But that's a pretty bad take. I'm a big Frank guy, but I'd put his upside as below Mitch, Knox, and DSJ, plus way below RJ if we draft him Thursday


I have Frank over Knox and DSJ in terms of UPSIDE (don't get me wrong)... Mitch is our STAR, I didn't include Barrett coz he's not yet on our Roster.
My point is Frank has the length, he's defensive IQ is off the charts, the offense is :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I always envisioned him prototype Giannis in a guard body coz of Wingspan and Prototype Kawhi defense
Now, he gains so much weight he's body looks so much different. He's now turning into a Mini french freak
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#803 » by 21 Hussle » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:34 am

For me I just see it as Mitch and then everyone else. Don’t really see how it’s asinine to say one has upside over the other when none of them have done ish.
:meditate: Patience :meditate:
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#804 » by K-DOT » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:47 am

knicksanity wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
knicksanity wrote:I'am the only one who thinks Frank has the UPSIDE on any of the Knicks players except for Mitch Rob (of course) or should I pinched myself rn?

:nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway:

You might not be the only one

But that's a pretty bad take. I'm a big Frank guy, but I'd put his upside as below Mitch, Knox, and DSJ, plus way below RJ if we draft him Thursday


I have Frank over Knox and DSJ in terms of UPSIDE (don't get me wrong)... Mitch is our STAR, I didn't include Barrett coz he's not yet on our Roster.
My point is Frank has the length, he's defensive IQ is off the charts, the offense is :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I always envisioned him prototype Giannis in a guard body coz of Wingspan and Prototype Kawhi defense
Now, he gains so much weight he's body looks so much different. He's now turning into a Mini french freak
Well, you certainly can believe that if you want

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#805 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:51 am

K-DOT wrote:
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
knicksanity wrote:I'am the only one who thinks Frank has the UPSIDE on any of the Knicks players except for Mitch Rob (of course) or should I pinched myself rn?

:nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway: :nod: :noway:
*upside* on Frank is crazily better than any of the other Kicks players

Yep. Again

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote: The *upside* on both Frank and Mitch is crazily better than any of the other Knicks players. For the draftee ... we will see, depending on who it is, ofc.


And if you don't understand that you are even dumber than it previously seemed.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#806 » by K-DOT » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:52 am

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:*upside* on Frank is crazily better than any of the other Kicks players

Yep. Again

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote: The *upside* on both Frank and Mitch is crazily better than any of the other Knicks players. For the draftee ... we will see, depending on who it is, ofc.


And if you don't understand that you are even dumber than it previously seemed.
That's a bold move, Cotton

Let's see how it plays out

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#807 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:57 am

K-DOT wrote:
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
K-DOT wrote:

Yep. Again

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote: The *upside* on both Frank and Mitch is crazily better than any of the other Knicks players. For the draftee ... we will see, depending on who it is, ofc.


And if you don't understand that you are even dumber than it previously seemed.
That's a bold move, Cotton

Let's see how it plays out

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"upside"

"expectation" - mean - think about the variance

"how it plays out" ... ~= "results"

:sigh:
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#808 » by ChaosHamster » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:45 am

DSj will just never become a good defender, small frame and short hands.

So in theory, Frank has more upside because he can become elite at both ends. :lol: :evil:
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#809 » by Infinitimind » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:34 am

ChaosHamster wrote:DSj will just never become a good defender, small frame and short hands.

So in theory, Frank has more upside because he can become elite at both ends. :lol: :evil:


Not sure why smith jr gets so much hate, he is in the 5 percent of athletics in the nba and is good at finishing at the basket. Needs to improve on his jump shot and decision making. But at 21 great upside

Frank on the other hand needs become a knock down shooter , work on his handle and become more aggressive. I hope he takes a big step next year. Seems to be a hard worker and puts the time in the gym.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#810 » by NYKAL » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:50 pm

Infinitimind wrote:
ChaosHamster wrote:DSj will just never become a good defender, small frame and short hands.

So in theory, Frank has more upside because he can become elite at both ends. :lol: :evil:


Not sure why smith jr gets so much hate, he is in the 5 percent of athletics in the nba and is good at finishing at the basket. Needs to improve on his jump shot and decision making. But at 21 great upside

Frank on the other hand needs become a knock down shooter , work on his handle and become more aggressive. I hope he takes a big step next year. Seems to be a hard worker and puts the time in the gym.


I agreed with everything you wrote.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#811 » by Fat Kat » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:58 pm

I would be remiss if I did not point out that Dennis had the best defensive real plus-minus on the team last season.

Now feel free to transform from stat nerd, to eye test warrior.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#812 » by K-DOT » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:22 pm

Fat Kat wrote:I would be remiss if I did not point out that Dennis had the best defensive real plus-minus on the team last season.

Now feel free to transform from stat nerd, to eye test warrior.
And I would be remiss if I did not point out that Frank destroys Dennis in individual defensive stats

Stuff like DRPM and Drtg, things that are heavily reliant on team performance, are ballpark numbers. Plus, DRPM takes into account DSJs time with the Mavs, who were better than us defensively as a team, making DSJs season stats better

In 2016, when Kawhi won DPOY, his DRPM was worse than Paul Pierce's.

The problem is people not understanding what stat means what, and making snide comments when pointed out they're wrong

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#813 » by Fat Kat » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:35 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:I would be remiss if I did not point out that Dennis had the best defensive real plus-minus on the team last season.

Now feel free to transform from stat nerd, to eye test warrior.
And I would be remiss if I did not point out that Frank destroys Dennis in individual defensive stats

Stuff like DRPM and Drtg, things that are heavily reliant on team performance, are ballpark numbers. Plus, DRPM takes into account DSJs time with the Mavs, who were better than us defensively as a team, making DSJs season stats better

In 2016, when Kawhi won DPOY, his DRPM was worse than Paul Pierce's.

The problem is people not understanding what stat means what, and making snide comments when pointed out they're wrong

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Wasn’t trying to make this a Frank vs. Dennis thing, just pushing back on the idea that Dennis was a horrible defender. Carry on though.

As far as people not understanding the stat, you’re criticisms should be aimed at the folks selectively using it. There are some that put no value into RPM. There are others that swear by it. Around here it’s mostly used to bolster comparisons.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#814 » by Dantares » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:52 pm

I remember watching videos of shumpert working on his shot in the summer and thinking this is it, he is finally going to become a good shooter. So while Frank shot looks better I won't be anything more than cautiously optimistic.

I hope he shoots the ball well in summer league and the French national team this summer.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#815 » by nedleeds » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:56 pm

Dennis is a bad defender. His time in Dallas showed the same. Frank to me has more potential to be a rotation NBA player than DSJ.

He's turning 21 this Summer and has had awful coaching and sporadic minutes for the most part. I'm all for yanking rookies for lack of effort, but I never saw Frank just die out there and he should have been playing 30+ minutes for the past two years. Playing through tentativeness and mistakes is the most important thing for a young guard. Franks shot isn't totally busted like Lonzo or something, Frank shoots 77% from the line. His 3 point form is great, he just needs to get some reps.

I still think Franks ceiling is something around Jrue Holiday, his floor to me is like Aaron McKie.

All that said I have no faith in the coaching staffs player development ability. The same morons giving minutes to **** Mudiay, Mario and Jordan are still here.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#816 » by K-DOT » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:08 pm

nedleeds wrote:Dennis is a bad defender. His time in Dallas showed the same. Frank to me has more potential to be a rotation NBA player than DSJ.

He's turning 21 this Summer and has had awful coaching and sporadic minutes for the most part. I'm all for yanking rookies for lack of effort, but I never saw Frank just die out there and he should have been playing 30+ minutes for the past two years. Playing through tentativeness and mistakes is the most important thing for a young guard. Franks shot isn't totally busted like Lonzo or something, Frank shoots 77% from the line. His 3 point form is great, he just needs to get some reps.

I still think Franks ceiling is something around Jrue Holiday, his floor to me is like Aaron McKie.

All that said I have no faith in the coaching staffs player development ability. The same morons giving minutes to **** Mudiay, Mario and Jordan are still here.
Dennis's stats say he's well within average for a defender, and that's what I saw after we traded for him

He's not gonna make an all defensive team or anything, but he isn't terrible

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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#817 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:25 pm

nedleeds wrote:Dennis is a bad defender. His time in Dallas showed the same. Frank to me has more potential to be a rotation NBA player than DSJ.

He's turning 21 this Summer and has had awful coaching and sporadic minutes for the most part. I'm all for yanking rookies for lack of effort, but I never saw Frank just die out there and he should have been playing 30+ minutes for the past two years. Playing through tentativeness and mistakes is the most important thing for a young guard. Franks shot isn't totally busted like Lonzo or something, Frank shoots 77% from the line. His 3 point form is great, he just needs to get some reps.

I still think Franks ceiling is something around Jrue Holiday, his floor to me is like Aaron McKie.

All that said I have no faith in the coaching staffs player development ability. The same morons giving minutes to **** Mudiay, Mario and Jordan are still here.


Mike Miller was truly some kind of development maestro in Westchester and now he's planting his flag at MSG so judging our future ability at player development because Fiz is head coach is probably unwarranted now.

Fiz may still be a crap coach with awful rotations and weird justifications, but I'll give him half a season to prove to us his rationales last season were driven by the order to tank. If Fiz has question marks hanging over his ability to coach then this is the season to prove that he can (unless he is told be be a tank commander again).
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#818 » by BBALLER4FR » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:36 pm

I remember watching Frank work on his dribble in the off season at Melo's spot with THJr. I didn't see much improvement in his ball handling during the season. In fact, I saw very little ball handling and when he did have the rock he either gave it up quickly or stood around waiting for things to happen. I'm keeping expectations low that he'll be a better shooter. He could prove me wrong, but so far he doesn't appear to be a guy with enough heart to quiet skeptics.
Sooooo..ummmm.....we tanking again or what?
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#819 » by MaseInYourFace » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:57 pm

ChaosHamster wrote:DSj will just never become a good defender, small frame and short hands.

So in theory, Frank has more upside because he can become elite at both ends. :lol: :evil:


Frame and body type helps for sure but most of what it takes to be a good defender is IQ and motor.
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Re: Official Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#820 » by nedleeds » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:01 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
nedleeds wrote:Dennis is a bad defender. His time in Dallas showed the same. Frank to me has more potential to be a rotation NBA player than DSJ.

He's turning 21 this Summer and has had awful coaching and sporadic minutes for the most part. I'm all for yanking rookies for lack of effort, but I never saw Frank just die out there and he should have been playing 30+ minutes for the past two years. Playing through tentativeness and mistakes is the most important thing for a young guard. Franks shot isn't totally busted like Lonzo or something, Frank shoots 77% from the line. His 3 point form is great, he just needs to get some reps.

I still think Franks ceiling is something around Jrue Holiday, his floor to me is like Aaron McKie.

All that said I have no faith in the coaching staffs player development ability. The same morons giving minutes to **** Mudiay, Mario and Jordan are still here.


Mike Miller was truly some kind of development maestro in Westchester and now he's planting his flag at MSG so judging our future ability at player development because Fiz is head coach is probably unwarranted now.

Fiz may still be a crap coach with awful rotations and weird justifications, but I'll give him half a season to prove to us his rationales last season were driven by the order to tank. If Fiz has question marks hanging over his ability to coach then this is the season to prove that he can (unless he is told be be a tank commander again).


Oh cool, I just read that he is joining the staff. I agree there is no reason not to keep Fizdale, if only because he seems to get along with his players and I do believe he cares and works. If Miller can help with our players off ball movement, catch and shoot and over all foot work around the perimeter that would be a big boost. Watch Knox and Frank shoot in an empty gym and their shots look great, but in the game Knox would often step out of bounds or not be in the corner ready to shoot. Same with Frank, he has this nice high release, nice arc 3 ball that looks like it should go in. Miller in the last half of his career, when he lost his dunk contest athleticism, was an elite catch and shoot player and had great instincts for getting in position to catch and shoot.

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