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Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1062 » by islanders11040 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:36 am

Time for the SUGA SHOW. Lets gooo.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1063 » by islanders11040 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:01 am

daaaaamn that sucks for Sean. In fight injuries suck.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1064 » by GONYK » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:08 am

I feel for DC. I didn't think the fight was unanimous, but Stipe was better.

There were parts of that fight when DC had no idea what was happening.

DC lost both the major GOAT sagas of his career. That has to really hurt.

I hope his eye recovers. That was nasty.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1065 » by GONYK » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:11 am

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1066 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:28 am

GONYK wrote:I feel for DC. I didn't think the fight was unanimous, but Stipe was better.

There were parts of that fight when DC had no idea what was happening.

DC lost both the major GOAT sagas of his career. That has to really hurt.

I hope his eye recovers. That was nasty.


Was that injury from an eye poke?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1067 » by GONYK » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:34 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
GONYK wrote:I feel for DC. I didn't think the fight was unanimous, but Stipe was better.

There were parts of that fight when DC had no idea what was happening.

DC lost both the major GOAT sagas of his career. That has to really hurt.

I hope his eye recovers. That was nasty.


Was that injury from an eye poke?
Yup, and the ref missed it.

I'm genuinely wondering what would have happened if the ref caught it.

DC would have gotten his 5 mins, but would he have wanted the fight stopped?

I don't know, but I don't see DC liking that either. I didn't see a guy who wants to go through camp again and do all this over.

Did he want the point deducted from Stipe? I guess, but I don't think that changes the outcome.

It's just a sh*tty thing to have happen, especially when he says he's seeing pitch black out of the eye and had to be hospitalized.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1068 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:10 am

GONYK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
GONYK wrote:I feel for DC. I didn't think the fight was unanimous, but Stipe was better.

There were parts of that fight when DC had no idea what was happening.

DC lost both the major GOAT sagas of his career. That has to really hurt.

I hope his eye recovers. That was nasty.


Was that injury from an eye poke?
Yup, and the ref missed it.

I'm genuinely wondering what would have happened if the ref caught it.

DC would have gotten his 5 mins, but would he have wanted the fight stopped?

I don't know, but I don't see DC liking that either. I didn't see a guy who wants to go through camp again and do all this over.

Did he want the point deducted from Stipe? I guess, but I don't think that changes the outcome.

It's just a sh*tty thing to have happen, especially when he says he's seeing pitch black out of the eye and had to be hospitalized.



Agreed. He’s have to climb back up that ladder because a Stipe rematch with Ngannou has to be next. DC has his third child due soon. Time to hang ‘em up.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1069 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:43 am

GONYK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
GONYK wrote:I feel for DC. I didn't think the fight was unanimous, but Stipe was better.

There were parts of that fight when DC had no idea what was happening.

DC lost both the major GOAT sagas of his career. That has to really hurt.

I hope his eye recovers. That was nasty.


Was that injury from an eye poke?
Yup, and the ref missed it.

I'm genuinely wondering what would have happened if the ref caught it.

DC would have gotten his 5 mins, but would he have wanted the fight stopped?

I don't know, but I don't see DC liking that either. I didn't see a guy who wants to go through camp again and do all this over.

Did he want the point deducted from Stipe? I guess, but I don't think that changes the outcome.

It's just a sh*tty thing to have happen, especially when he says he's seeing pitch black out of the eye and had to be hospitalized.


The eye poke was really bad, but his right eye was compromised before it. The ref missed the eye poke for sure, it was weird, I'm not sure if it was meant to be a fake or a feint, but he threw a punch and stopped right before the poke. Oddly enough the ref never had the doctor check his eye throughout the entire fight. It also was odd how DC's corner never listened to what he was saying, can the man get some water on his damn head?

DC is an all-time great no doubt, but he never really was a contender in the heavyweight division. It's such a terrible weight class that his technique was able to allow him to fight the best. DC truly an all time great, look forward to him calling fights again and hope that he doesn't go the Bisping route with his eye.

Regarding the O'Malley fight, I'm curious the official reason why Dean stopped the fight. O'Malley was clearly hurt, but from the punches he was fine. We would've heard O'Malley ask for the fight to be stopped, it's all meaningless because he was hurt but I'd like to hear from Herb.

I guess we're gonna see Jones vs Miocic, Miocic will probably cash in one last time. Jones wins and then there's Ngannou, Jones could potentially clean out two divisions and then be left with no one to fight again.

Oh well, onto Khabib/Gaethje and the Bantamweight division. It's where all the action is.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1070 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:01 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
GONYK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Was that injury from an eye poke?
Yup, and the ref missed it.

I'm genuinely wondering what would have happened if the ref caught it.

DC would have gotten his 5 mins, but would he have wanted the fight stopped?

I don't know, but I don't see DC liking that either. I didn't see a guy who wants to go through camp again and do all this over.

Did he want the point deducted from Stipe? I guess, but I don't think that changes the outcome.

It's just a sh*tty thing to have happen, especially when he says he's seeing pitch black out of the eye and had to be hospitalized.


The eye poke was really bad, but his right eye was compromised before it. The ref missed the eye poke for sure, it was weird, I'm not sure if it was meant to be a fake or a feint, but he threw a punch and stopped right before the poke. Oddly enough the ref never had the doctor check his eye throughout the entire fight. It also was odd how DC's corner never listened to what he was saying, can the man get some water on his damn head?

DC is an all-time great no doubt, but he never really was a contender in the heavyweight division. It's such a terrible weight class that his technique was able to allow him to fight the best. DC truly an all time great, look forward to him calling fights again and hope that he doesn't go the Bisping route with his eye.

Regarding the O'Malley fight, I'm curious the official reason why Dean stopped the fight. O'Malley was clearly hurt, but from the punches he was fine. We would've heard O'Malley ask for the fight to be stopped, it's all meaningless because he was hurt but I'd like to hear from Herb.

I guess we're gonna see Jones vs Miocic, Miocic will probably cash in one last time. Jones wins and then there's Ngannou, Jones could potentially clean out two divisions and then be left with no one to fight again.

Oh well, onto Khabib/Gaethje and the Bantamweight division. It's where all the action is.


I don’t think Jones should jump Ngannou. At best, Jones gets to fight Francis to see who fights Stipe for the belt. And I think Jones loses that fight.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1071 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:16 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:I don’t think Jones should jump Ngannou. At best, Jones gets to fight Francis to see who fights Stipe for the belt. And I think Jones loses that fight.


It's all about the money, Jones didn't get enough for Ngannou. Imagine selling a PPV with the greatest HW vs LHW and arguably the greatest MMA fighter ever. I don't see how Miocic would even stand a chance in the fight, Jones would literally be better at him at everything and he wouldn't have to cut weight. Are people really excited to see Ngannou vs Miocic again? Miocic doesn't have that many fights left in him, there's no one that's interesting enough at LHW nor presents a challenge that Miocic/Ngannou could potentially offer.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1072 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:28 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:I don’t think Jones should jump Ngannou. At best, Jones gets to fight Francis to see who fights Stipe for the belt. And I think Jones loses that fight.


It's all about the money, Jones didn't get enough for Ngannou. Imagine selling a PPV with the greatest HW vs LHW and arguably the greatest MMA fighter ever. I don't see how Miocic would even stand a chance in the fight, Jones would literally be better at him at everything and he wouldn't have to cut weight. Are people really excited to see Ngannou vs Miocic again? Miocic doesn't have that many fights left in him, there's no one that's interesting enough at LHW nor presents a challenge that Miocic/Ngannou could potentially offer.


Jones arguably lost his last fight to Dominick Reyes while Ngannou has plowed back up the rankings by mauling His last two opponents. Do you really think Jones beats Francis?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1073 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:33 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:I don’t think Jones should jump Ngannou. At best, Jones gets to fight Francis to see who fights Stipe for the belt. And I think Jones loses that fight.


It's all about the money, Jones didn't get enough for Ngannou. Imagine selling a PPV with the greatest HW vs LHW and arguably the greatest MMA fighter ever. I don't see how Miocic would even stand a chance in the fight, Jones would literally be better at him at everything and he wouldn't have to cut weight. Are people really excited to see Ngannou vs Miocic again? Miocic doesn't have that many fights left in him, there's no one that's interesting enough at LHW nor presents a challenge that Miocic/Ngannou could potentially offer.


Jones arguably lost his last fight to Dominick Reyes while Ngannou has plowed back up the rankings by mauling His last two opponents. Do you really think Jones beats Francis?


There’s not a person in MMA that I would bet to beat Jones. A motivated Jones? Perhaps a paranormal force, divine intervention or a bear with a chainsaw.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1074 » by j4remi » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:38 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:The eye poke was really bad, but his right eye was compromised before it. The ref missed the eye poke for sure, it was weird, I'm not sure if it was meant to be a fake or a feint, but he threw a punch and stopped right before the poke. Oddly enough the ref never had the doctor check his eye throughout the entire fight. It also was odd how DC's corner never listened to what he was saying, can the man get some water on his damn head?

DC is an all-time great no doubt, but he never really was a contender in the heavyweight division. It's such a terrible weight class that his technique was able to allow him to fight the best. DC truly an all time great, look forward to him calling fights again and hope that he doesn't go the Bisping route with his eye.

Regarding the O'Malley fight, I'm curious the official reason why Dean stopped the fight. O'Malley was clearly hurt, but from the punches he was fine. We would've heard O'Malley ask for the fight to be stopped, it's all meaningless because he was hurt but I'd like to hear from Herb.

I guess we're gonna see Jones vs Miocic, Miocic will probably cash in one last time. Jones wins and then there's Ngannou, Jones could potentially clean out two divisions and then be left with no one to fight again.

Oh well, onto Khabib/Gaethje and the Bantamweight division. It's where all the action is.


On DC never really being a contender, I don't think he belonged in the modern HW class but when Cain was ruling the weight class DC had a real argument for number 2 in the division with only JDS close (and DC's camp knowing all of the JDS exploits). The eye poke was pretty egregious in that Stipe landed some hard shots right after that were damaging in a round that was very close. I'd edge it to DC off not counting those strikes but that's not how you're supposed to score it since the ref didn't stop it.

I definitely think DC should retire. There were two dudes last night who fought that I felt would have put on a much different performance in their primes. That was Jim Miller who owned the grappling exchanges in the first round but slowed down and then DC, who was throwing Catch Wrestling monster (and constant threat to fail PED tests at the time) Josh Barnett like it was nothing in prime.

On another eye poke note, after every major eye poke in a fight this meme comes back...PRIDE seemed to have a lot less eye poking issues and their glove design seems like it played a role. So every time we see the comparison of gloves and people ask why the UFC won't mimic the model (PRIDE left, UFC right):
Image

I didn't hate the O'Malley stoppage basically because of his reaction after the stoppage. He didn't protest at all. Honestly, I got the sense that he was putting everything into the last few rushes he made because he'd plan to bow out if he couldn't finish by the end of the first round. It was definitely an early stoppage, but not unreasonable. It just sucks that this is twice now we've seen O'Mally's foot give out in the middle of a fight; I'm not sure what the solution is to avoid those sorts of injuries besides doing what Jose Aldo did (stop kicking much).
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1075 » by j4remi » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:41 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:I don’t think Jones should jump Ngannou. At best, Jones gets to fight Francis to see who fights Stipe for the belt. And I think Jones loses that fight.


It's all about the money, Jones didn't get enough for Ngannou. Imagine selling a PPV with the greatest HW vs LHW and arguably the greatest MMA fighter ever. I don't see how Miocic would even stand a chance in the fight, Jones would literally be better at him at everything and he wouldn't have to cut weight. Are people really excited to see Ngannou vs Miocic again? Miocic doesn't have that many fights left in him, there's no one that's interesting enough at LHW nor presents a challenge that Miocic/Ngannou could potentially offer.


Jones arguably lost his last fight to Dominick Reyes while Ngannou has plowed back up the rankings by mauling His last two opponents. Do you really think Jones beats Francis?


I need to see Jones at HW to decide on a fight with Francis. I always felt Jones/Rumble was the most interesting fight in the division because we've seen that Jones can be hurt but he'd also have a lot of strengths to survive and win the fight. Francis has a lot of that same explosive power that Rumble offered to make the fight interesting. I'm a bit pissed we don't get a Reyes/Jones 2 or Thiago/Jones 2 but that's moreso because Jones in rematches has been an unstoppable force and I'd love to see if he can adjust to those 2 like he did in his second bouts with DC and Gus.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1076 » by j4remi » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:48 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Who’s next for Weidman? He said he didn’t want to fight Rockhold again who’s now coming out of retirement. What about Jack Hermanson?


I missed this one. I like the Marvin Vettori call out a lot tbh. Vettori is a climbing prospect at 14th not and I'd still like to see Weidman work his way back up the ranks slowly before they throw him straight into the fire. He was coming off a 1-5 stretch; so I don't think he's earned a shot at a contender with that one win. If they do grant Weidman a higher ranked opponent, I'd go with Uriah Hall at 9th ranked. It'd be a tough but fair test before Weidman starts facing the cream of the crop...Brunson could be fun too actually.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1077 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:53 pm

j4remi wrote:
On DC never really being a contender, I don't think he belonged in the modern HW class but when Cain was ruling the weight class DC had a real argument for number 2 in the division with only JDS close (and DC's camp knowing all of the JDS exploits). The eye poke was pretty egregious in that Stipe landed some hard shots right after that were damaging in a round that was very close. I'd edge it to DC off not counting those strikes but that's not how you're supposed to score it since the ref didn't stop it.

I definitely think DC should retire. There were two dudes last night who fought that I felt would have put on a much different performance in their primes. That was Jim Miller who owned the grappling exchanges in the first round but slowed down and then DC, who was throwing Catch Wrestling monster (and constant threat to fail PED tests at the time) Josh Barnett like it was nothing in prime.

On another eye poke note, after every major eye poke in a fight this meme comes back...PRIDE seemed to have a lot less eye poking issues and their glove design seems like it played a role. So every time we see the comparison of gloves and people ask why the UFC won't mimic the model (PRIDE left, UFC right):
Image

I didn't hate the O'Malley stoppage basically because of his reaction after the stoppage. He didn't protest at all. Honestly, I got the sense that he was putting everything into the last few rushes he made because he'd plan to bow out if he couldn't finish by the end of the first round. It was definitely an early stoppage, but not unreasonable. It just sucks that this is twice now we've seen O'Mally's foot give out in the middle of a fight; I'm not sure what the solution is to avoid those sorts of injuries besides doing what Jose Aldo did (stop kicking much).


In general I never liked the heavyweight division all that much because you either loaded up on power shots or had very little stamina that the fights became comical in rounds two and three. Cormier never really had those impressive wins/KO's to me, not that it's his fault, there really was just never another guy for that to happen. Nelson? Mir? Big Nog? Barnett? Etc.

There was nothing wrong with the O'Malley stoppage at all, he was clearly hurt and was hobbling in the ring. It was just weird that he ate two shots and Herb stopped the fight. No one is going to argue the stoppage because of O'Malley's immediate reaction but optic wise it just looked weird.

Overall a meh card to me, but the expectations were low on this anyway.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1078 » by j4remi » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:02 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:In general I never liked the heavyweight division all that much because you either loaded up on power shots or had very little stamina that the fights became comical in rounds two and three. Cormier never really had those impressive wins/KO's to me, not that it's his fault, there really was just never another guy for that to happen. Nelson? Mir? Big Nog? Barnett? Etc.


Yeah, that's fair. I rate Barnett an all timer though, one of the best catch wrestlers we've seen and a guy who was rocking competitively with the real HW divisions over the 00's (PRIDE with Crocop, Prime Big Nog and of course Fedor Emilianenko). For DC, the only guys he could have fought for a barometer would be Cain who was his boy. I think both Werdum and JDS are criminally underrated though to be fair though and I take Prime DC over those two but it's pure eye test talk.

Manhattan Project wrote:There was nothing wrong with the O'Malley stoppage at all, he was clearly hurt and was hobbling in the ring. It was just weird that he ate two shots and Herb stopped the fight. No one is going to argue the stoppage because of O'Malley's immediate reaction but optic wise it just looked weird.

Overall a meh card to me, but the expectations were low on this anyway.


Yeah, the card was pretty weak especially with the anti-climax of O'Malley's fight and the eye poke controversy of the main event. Good on JDS and Rozenstruik for giving us a hell of a fight and also to Jim Miller and Vinc for one of the better grappling bouts of this entire year. But the rest of the card was really forgettable. UFC 253 needs more fire power too, but I'm guessing they still have a co-main event to either book or announce because I don't see one on the card and they'd be nuts not to capitalize on Izzy/Costa with some additional hype.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1079 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:28 pm

The Weasel with the breakdown of the O'Malley injury. Vera’s leg kick got the peroneal nerve.

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1080 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:38 pm

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