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Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1081 » by Stannis » Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:34 pm

j4remi wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:The eye poke was really bad, but his right eye was compromised before it. The ref missed the eye poke for sure, it was weird, I'm not sure if it was meant to be a fake or a feint, but he threw a punch and stopped right before the poke. Oddly enough the ref never had the doctor check his eye throughout the entire fight. It also was odd how DC's corner never listened to what he was saying, can the man get some water on his damn head?

DC is an all-time great no doubt, but he never really was a contender in the heavyweight division. It's such a terrible weight class that his technique was able to allow him to fight the best. DC truly an all time great, look forward to him calling fights again and hope that he doesn't go the Bisping route with his eye.

Regarding the O'Malley fight, I'm curious the official reason why Dean stopped the fight. O'Malley was clearly hurt, but from the punches he was fine. We would've heard O'Malley ask for the fight to be stopped, it's all meaningless because he was hurt but I'd like to hear from Herb.

I guess we're gonna see Jones vs Miocic, Miocic will probably cash in one last time. Jones wins and then there's Ngannou, Jones could potentially clean out two divisions and then be left with no one to fight again.

Oh well, onto Khabib/Gaethje and the Bantamweight division. It's where all the action is.


On DC never really being a contender, I don't think he belonged in the modern HW class but when Cain was ruling the weight class DC had a real argument for number 2 in the division with only JDS close (and DC's camp knowing all of the JDS exploits). The eye poke was pretty egregious in that Stipe landed some hard shots right after that were damaging in a round that was very close. I'd edge it to DC off not counting those strikes but that's not how you're supposed to score it since the ref didn't stop it.

I definitely think DC should retire. There were two dudes last night who fought that I felt would have put on a much different performance in their primes. That was Jim Miller who owned the grappling exchanges in the first round but slowed down and then DC, who was throwing Catch Wrestling monster (and constant threat to fail PED tests at the time) Josh Barnett like it was nothing in prime.

On another eye poke note, after every major eye poke in a fight this meme comes back...PRIDE seemed to have a lot less eye poking issues and their glove design seems like it played a role. So every time we see the comparison of gloves and people ask why the UFC won't mimic the model (PRIDE left, UFC right):
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I didn't hate the O'Malley stoppage basically because of his reaction after the stoppage. He didn't protest at all. Honestly, I got the sense that he was putting everything into the last few rushes he made because he'd plan to bow out if he couldn't finish by the end of the first round. It was definitely an early stoppage, but not unreasonable. It just sucks that this is twice now we've seen O'Mally's foot give out in the middle of a fight; I'm not sure what the solution is to avoid those sorts of injuries besides doing what Jose Aldo did (stop kicking much).



You think those gloves will actually make a difference?

It seems like eye-poking is mostly an issue with certain fighters, imo.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1082 » by j4remi » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:18 pm

Stannis wrote:
j4remi wrote:On another eye poke note, after every major eye poke in a fight this meme comes back...PRIDE seemed to have a lot less eye poking issues and their glove design seems like it played a role. So every time we see the comparison of gloves and people ask why the UFC won't mimic the model (PRIDE left, UFC right):
Image



You think those gloves will actually make a difference?

It seems like eye-poking is mostly an issue with certain fights, imo.


It wouldn't prevent eye pokes all together, but it would reduce them. Those gloves make it a lot harder to get the point of a finger into the eyes and anecdotally it felt helpful during the PRIDE days. I think eye-poking is a legit issue mainly because it happens often enough that we all recognize it, but not often enough that the refs have any semblance of consistency. A dude got 3 eye poke warnings a couple of events back, then a low blow warning and a striking a downed fighter. DC got one poke and immediately was threatened with losing a point...then Stipe tore DC's cornea (I know some heads are saying the eye was already damaged but the difference before and after was dramatic).

That makes it so that it's not a big enough problem to get dramatic but it's showing up in enough big fights that we really ought to make some attempts to limit the problem and/or have more consistent handling of eye poke situations. It's so damned tricky to judge intent that I think step one is offering gloves that make it impossible to point the fingers straight out.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1083 » by j4remi » Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:04 pm

So the MMA news cycle post 252 is damn near all Heavyweight talk:
- Dana White said that Francis Ngannou has earned his title shot and will get the next shot at Stipe. This is absolutely earned and I'm very excited to see what Francis' growth looks like in the face of a fighter that turned him timid for a couple of fights.

- Jon Jones relinquished his LHW title and tweeted out what looked like a retirement post...before following up that the UFC had called and he is now packing on the weight to move up to HW. I'd guess he's gonna take extra time to stack muscle properly and jump into an immediate fight with the winner of Francis/Stipe. That's mainly because there's no one else with the right risk/reward ratio for Jones. The next names on the list are Rozenstruik and Reem...I don't see it.

- The other two HW's in the title conversation are Curtis Blaydes and Derrick Lewis; those two had a brief back and forth over who was ducking who...and now they'll fight in November. Neither has fought Stipe yet (a rarity for a top tier HW). Blaydes has lost to Ngannou twice, but Derrick Lewis has a win over Francis (albeit in a lackluster decision).

- With Jones' title relinquished we've got some movement at LHW too. Jan Blacowicz vs Dominick Reyes is in the works to decide a new champion. Meanwhile, I'm expecting to see some movement into the division as Jones and Anderson leaving means 2 of the top 5 LHW's just dipped. It was already a light division and some fighters/managers will look to capitalize.

- On that note...Anthony Rumble Johnson re-entered the USADA testing pool officially with his eyes set on LHW. Derek Brunson also tweeted about his interest in potentially moving up (and fresh off a nice win). Add in the improvements from Aleksandar Rakic and addition of Jiri Prochazka for another pair of LHW names to improve the depth. To round that out, Thiago Santos is almost back from his knee injuries as well. The division could look VERY different by this time next year.

- And in less direct news, the new UFC game dropped. I only mention it really because I still don't think we've gotten a great iteration of MMA in sports games. I'm still waiting for a Fight Night level UFC game, but I guess it's just tricky. I'm not sure there will ever be a smooth way to handle the grappling aspects.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1084 » by GONYK » Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:14 pm

j4remi wrote:
- And in less direct news, the new UFC game dropped. I only mention it really because I still don't think we've gotten a great iteration of MMA in sports games. I'm still waiting for a Fight Night level UFC game, but I guess it's just tricky. I'm not sure there will ever be a smooth way to handle the grappling aspects.


Have you played it yet? I've been sitting back waiting for them to patch it up first. I liked 3 after all the patches.

The reviews are solid on 4 though.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1085 » by j4remi » Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:26 pm

GONYK wrote:
j4remi wrote:
- And in less direct news, the new UFC game dropped. I only mention it really because I still don't think we've gotten a great iteration of MMA in sports games. I'm still waiting for a Fight Night level UFC game, but I guess it's just tricky. I'm not sure there will ever be a smooth way to handle the grappling aspects.


Have you played it yet? I've been sitting back waiting for them to patch it up first. I liked 3 after all the patches.

The reviews are solid on 4 though.


I've rocked with for a few; ran a bit of career mode, couch vs mode and then just a couple of online matches. I'd say this is an improvement over 3 but not by a huge margin in terms of actual gameplay. The striking and clinch controls have been simplified a pinch (I'm 90% sure parrying is removed but I'm not very good at UFC games). There are some flaws to the design that I'm not sure a patch would fix...they map two attacks to the same button, a tap might do a normal elbow and holding in the button will do a spinning version and it gets sloppy fast. I'd wait for a discount and at least the first patch tbh.

Edit: I do think the career mode overhaul has improved it a decent amount. It's not a huge change from the formula but everything's been tweaked to move more smoothly. I think they've still only scratched the surface on it though.
PG - Morris/Caruso
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SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1086 » by j4remi » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:04 pm

Well, last night's UFC Munhoz vs Edgar looked like one of the weakest cards of the year on paper. I didn't even bother with a write-up. There were jokes about the fights that had been pulled from the card being better than the ones that stuck...and then it wound up being really really good.

We got multiple come from behind victories, a gang of nice finishes and the main event wound up being an absolute scrap. Daniel Rodriguez and Joe Solecki both look like they could make some noise. Shana Dobson got the biggest upset since Holm beat Rousey (I cashed 15:1 odds on Dobson to win by any stoppage). Then Frankie Edgar fought a hell of a fight to win a major upset (he was a 3:1 dog).

Pedro Munhoz is no joke. Most people had him pegged to finish Frankie. But Frankie went toe to toe with him and outworked him. The result is fully up for debate, but I don't think anyone was really mad at the result. Part of that is because Frankie's just so damned likeable but the other part is how hard he worked and gritted to the dub. It basically came down to the fifth for most people and there was Edgar, aged and fresh off 3 KO losses in 4 fights...throwing all sorts of combinations to land anything he could. Edgar's heart is insane.

In Bellator news, their most overrated fighter lost a title fight. Ryan Bader hadn't defended the LHW title for Bellator in 2 years, instead picking on aged Heavyweights was his path. The overhyping had already started before he left UFC without ever beating a top 3 quality talent imo, but it reached fever pitch after he knocked out Fedor...but we're talking about a very old Fedor. This wasn't even the guy that Big Foot or Werdum beat; let alone the one who fought an epic with Crocop. But Ryan Bader started getting cast as way better then he is...until he fought Vadim Nemkov.

Vadim Nemkov is a protege of Fedor who has grown like CRAZY from when I first saw him at some Rizin cards. He dominated Liam McGeary and then took a tough decision over Phil Davis. His second round KO over Bader was treated like a shock by media, but we should have seen it coming. This kid is the real deal and Coker got Corey Anderson at the perfect time, because Nemkov's already beaten the rest of the crop.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1087 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:49 pm

j4remi wrote:Well, last night's UFC Munhoz vs Edgar looked like one of the weakest cards of the year on paper. I didn't even bother with a write-up. There were jokes about the fights that had been pulled from the card being better than the ones that stuck...and then it wound up being really really good.

We got multiple come from behind victories, a gang of nice finishes and the main event wound up being an absolute scrap. Daniel Rodriguez and Joe Solecki both look like they could make some noise. Shana Dobson got the biggest upset since Holm beat Rousey (I cashed 15:1 odds on Dobson to win by any stoppage). Then Frankie Edgar fought a hell of a fight to win a major upset (he was a 3:1 dog).

Pedro Munhoz is no joke. Most people had him pegged to finish Frankie. But Frankie went toe to toe with him and outworked him. The result is fully up for debate, but I don't think anyone was really mad at the result. Part of that is because Frankie's just so damned likeable but the other part is how hard he worked and gritted to the dub. It basically came down to the fifth for most people and there was Edgar, aged and fresh off 3 KO losses in 4 fights...throwing all sorts of combinations to land anything he could. Edgar's heart is insane.

In Bellator news, their most overrated fighter lost a title fight. Ryan Bader hadn't defended the LHW title for Bellator in 2 years, instead picking on aged Heavyweights was his path. The overhyping had already started before he left UFC without ever beating a top 3 quality talent imo, but it reached fever pitch after he knocked out Fedor...but we're talking about a very old Fedor. This wasn't even the guy that Big Foot or Werdum beat; let alone the one who fought an epic with Crocop. But Ryan Bader started getting cast as way better then he is...until he fought Vadim Nemkov.

Vadim Nemkov is a protege of Fedor who has grown like CRAZY from when I first saw him at some Rizin cards. He dominated Liam McGeary and then took a tough decision over Phil Davis. His second round KO over Bader was treated like a shock by media, but we should have seen it coming. This kid is the real deal and Coker got Corey Anderson at the perfect time, because Nemkov's already beaten the rest of the crop.


Frankie is the toughest SOB I've ever seen in any combat sport. Guy is a legend. That he is still moving in and out quickly at his age is pretty mind blowing.

Still, I scored Pedro 3-2 over five rounds. I felt he was the pressure fighter who landed more of the big shots including calf strikes, not just head shots. It was close so I don't think it was controversial decision, just not the way I scored it.

I do think Pedro wins if he kept going to Frankie's calves. For some reason he just stopped doing it, but it was clearly what started to turn the fight in his favor and open up Frankie to getting bombed. But he went away from it and it cost him the fight.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1088 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:56 pm

j4remi wrote:Well, last night's UFC Munhoz vs Edgar looked like one of the weakest cards of the year on paper. I didn't even bother with a write-up. There were jokes about the fights that had been pulled from the card being better than the ones that stuck...and then it wound up being really really good.

We got multiple come from behind victories, a gang of nice finishes and the main event wound up being an absolute scrap. Daniel Rodriguez and Joe Solecki both look like they could make some noise. Shana Dobson got the biggest upset since Holm beat Rousey (I cashed 15:1 odds on Dobson to win by any stoppage). Then Frankie Edgar fought a hell of a fight to win a major upset (he was a 3:1 dog).

Pedro Munhoz is no joke. Most people had him pegged to finish Frankie. But Frankie went toe to toe with him and outworked him. The result is fully up for debate, but I don't think anyone was really mad at the result. Part of that is because Frankie's just so damned likeable but the other part is how hard he worked and gritted to the dub. It basically came down to the fifth for most people and there was Edgar, aged and fresh off 3 KO losses in 4 fights...throwing all sorts of combinations to land anything he could. Edgar's heart is insane.

In Bellator news, their most overrated fighter lost a title fight. Ryan Bader hadn't defended the LHW title for Bellator in 2 years, instead picking on aged Heavyweights was his path. The overhyping had already started before he left UFC without ever beating a top 3 quality talent imo, but it reached fever pitch after he knocked out Fedor...but we're talking about a very old Fedor. This wasn't even the guy that Big Foot or Werdum beat; let alone the one who fought an epic with Crocop. But Ryan Bader started getting cast as way better then he is...until he fought Vadim Nemkov.

Vadim Nemkov is a protege of Fedor who has grown like CRAZY from when I first saw him at some Rizin cards. He dominated Liam McGeary and then took a tough decision over Phil Davis. His second round KO over Bader was treated like a shock by media, but we should have seen it coming. This kid is the real deal and Coker got Corey Anderson at the perfect time, because Nemkov's already beaten the rest of the crop.



I was rooting hard for Dobson. Tremendous win for her ... and you! Haha

Edgar-Munoz was a great fight. I rooted for Frankie but thought everything came down to how you scored that first round. That final round was vintage Edgar. I can’t believe he ate all of legs kicks and never switched stances.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1089 » by j4remi » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:58 pm

This is a rarity in MMA...I see a pretty decent majority giving Munhoz the win 3-2 but nobody is actually mad at the decision. It's a uniquely Frankie kinda thing (like I said, I don't know anyone who doesn't like the guy). What's kinda foul is that I'd rather he not fight another top 5 threat right away. Make the Frankie Edgar vs Dominick Cruz super fight ASAP! Cruz is coming off a loss, Edgar off a highly debated decision and they're both not getting any younger. Give us the scrap while they're still able to go in.

Munhoz, I'd want to see fight Jimmie Rivera. Rivera just beat Cody Stamman in a competitive fight so this would be rewarding Munhoz in spite of fighting a lesser rank.

Unfortunately, while the rest of the card showed out...I don't think I'd put any of the winners against ranked opposition next. That was what made it such an easy card to sleep on. But it was a hell of a fight night and shows the value of cards where everyone is hungry and fighting with nothing to lose.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1090 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:17 pm

j4remi wrote:This is a rarity in MMA...I see a pretty decent majority giving Munhoz the win 3-2 but nobody is actually mad at the decision. It's a uniquely Frankie kinda thing (like I said, I don't know anyone who doesn't like the guy). What's kinda foul is that I'd rather he not fight another top 5 threat right away. Make the Frankie Edgar vs Dominick Cruz super fight ASAP! Cruz is coming off a loss, Edgar off a highly debated decision and they're both not getting any younger. Give us the scrap while they're still able to go in.

Munhoz, I'd want to see fight Jimmie Rivera. Rivera just beat Cody Stamman in a competitive fight so this would be rewarding Munhoz in spite of fighting a lesser rank.

Unfortunately, while the rest of the card showed out...I don't think I'd put any of the winners against ranked opposition next. That was what made it such an easy card to sleep on. But it was a hell of a fight night and shows the value of cards where everyone is hungry and fighting with nothing to lose.


I was thinking the same about Munoz. You just can't hold this one against him. He doesn't deserve to lose his place for this fight. I like the Frankie vs. Cruz fight a lot. Make it happen.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1091 » by HighRyzer83 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:09 am

Izzy Costa is going to be a hell of a fight. Initially I thought Costa would gas and Izzy would have his way in the latter rounds but looking closely at the Kelvin fight, Izzy does not like to be walked down. Nor is he particularly good at taking hard shots. You can bet Costa will do both considering he walked down Romero and dropped him. Looks like Costa will open a considerable underdog. May be a nice bet. What do you guys think?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1092 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:28 am

HighRyzer83 wrote:Izzy Costa is going to be a hell of a fight. Initially I thought Costa would gas and Izzy would have his way in the latter rounds but looking closely at the Kelvin fight, Izzy does not like to be walked down. Nor is he particularly good at taking hard shots. You can bet Costa will do both considering he walked down Romero and dropped him. Looks like Costa will open a considerable underdog. May be a nice bet. What do you guys think?


I dunno. Costa is ferocious in the first round. Yoel was so amazing in that fight. He has such an ability to move out of the way of, and with, his opponent's punches and then counter. If you're stiff in the ring, Costa will clean your clock. Izzy will have to weather the initial onslaught.

As I understand it, Izzy is, like Yoel, is a counter puncher. I'm sure he's watched plenty of film of Costa's fights and will look for those openings to counter. Has Izzy's chin been tested before?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1093 » by j4remi » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:18 pm

HighRyzer83 wrote:Izzy Costa is going to be a hell of a fight. Initially I thought Costa would gas and Izzy would have his way in the latter rounds but looking closely at the Kelvin fight, Izzy does not like to be walked down. Nor is he particularly good at taking hard shots. You can bet Costa will do both considering he walked down Romero and dropped him. Looks like Costa will open a considerable underdog. May be a nice bet. What do you guys think?


I'm having a hell of a time picking. If the odds are heavy one way or the other, I'd take my chances on the underdog either way.

I've gotta watch it back but I recall Gastelum really throwing off Izzy's ability to read distances by exploding in and out with multi-punch combos. I remember wondering how much of that was speed related though. Costa is explosive and fast, but I view him more in the Yoel Romero realm. Adesanya had to fight Yoel more cautiously but was able to avoid danger for the most part. Costa will always be one strike away from potentially blowing up everything but his gas tank could run out if he forces the issue. I'm leaning slightly to the champ but I could see Costa by stoppage too. It's really tough for me to call.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1094 » by GONYK » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:52 pm

j4remi wrote:
HighRyzer83 wrote:Izzy Costa is going to be a hell of a fight. Initially I thought Costa would gas and Izzy would have his way in the latter rounds but looking closely at the Kelvin fight, Izzy does not like to be walked down. Nor is he particularly good at taking hard shots. You can bet Costa will do both considering he walked down Romero and dropped him. Looks like Costa will open a considerable underdog. May be a nice bet. What do you guys think?


I'm having a hell of a time picking. If the odds are heavy one way or the other, I'd take my chances on the underdog either way.

I've gotta watch it back but I recall Gastelum really throwing off Izzy's ability to read distances by exploding in and out with multi-punch combos. I remember wondering how much of that was speed related though. Costa is explosive and fast, but I view him more in the Yoel Romero realm. Adesanya had to fight Yoel more cautiously but was able to avoid danger for the most part. Costa will always be one strike away from potentially blowing up everything but his gas tank could run out if he forces the issue. I'm leaning slightly to the champ but I could see Costa by stoppage too. It's really tough for me to call.


Yoel refused to move forward though (or do much of anything), that's why Izzy was mostly unscathed. Even then, Adesanya got majorly popped the one time he came into Romero's space.

I don't think Costa will have that same level of timidity.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1095 » by j4remi » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:11 pm

GONYK wrote:
j4remi wrote:
I'm having a hell of a time picking. If the odds are heavy one way or the other, I'd take my chances on the underdog either way.

I've gotta watch it back but I recall Gastelum really throwing off Izzy's ability to read distances by exploding in and out with multi-punch combos. I remember wondering how much of that was speed related though. Costa is explosive and fast, but I view him more in the Yoel Romero realm. Adesanya had to fight Yoel more cautiously but was able to avoid danger for the most part. Costa will always be one strike away from potentially blowing up everything but his gas tank could run out if he forces the issue. I'm leaning slightly to the champ but I could see Costa by stoppage too. It's really tough for me to call.


Yoel refused to move forward though (or do much of anything), that's why Izzy was mostly unscathed. Even then, Adesanya got majorly popped the one time he came into Romero's space.

I don't think Costa will have that same level of timidity.


Yeah, the challenge of evaluating off of Romero was that both fighters played to counter and Izzy found out on his first entry that it wasn't gonna happen with Yoel. But Costa's aggression will play into what is typically Izzy's style which is slipping and countering. Robert Whitaker has thrown off some very talented striking with his versatility and feinting (Yoel included) but he never came close with Adesanya.

This is where I think Costa's pretty interesting though. Generally, I find that he's smarter with his aggression than a typical power striker. He's good in space but he really let's go after he moves guys back to the cage. Izzy is a ring general though, not easy to trap and very aware of the space he has. Costa being aggressive could get him blasted if he's reckless, though I remember watching early fights of his and thinking that he's a smarter striker than typical reckless KO power strikers. Early Costa gave me just has many Shogun Rua vibes (my favorite PRIDE fighter) as he did Vitor Belfort. His more recent efforts haven't showcased the Rua aspect but if that Paulo is fighting than the fight will be decided by patience and how often Paulo can get Izzy's feet behind the black line.
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SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1096 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:25 pm

j4remi wrote:
GONYK wrote:
j4remi wrote:
I'm having a hell of a time picking. If the odds are heavy one way or the other, I'd take my chances on the underdog either way.

I've gotta watch it back but I recall Gastelum really throwing off Izzy's ability to read distances by exploding in and out with multi-punch combos. I remember wondering how much of that was speed related though. Costa is explosive and fast, but I view him more in the Yoel Romero realm. Adesanya had to fight Yoel more cautiously but was able to avoid danger for the most part. Costa will always be one strike away from potentially blowing up everything but his gas tank could run out if he forces the issue. I'm leaning slightly to the champ but I could see Costa by stoppage too. It's really tough for me to call.


Yoel refused to move forward though (or do much of anything), that's why Izzy was mostly unscathed. Even then, Adesanya got majorly popped the one time he came into Romero's space.

I don't think Costa will have that same level of timidity.


Yeah, the challenge of evaluating off of Romero was that both fighters played to counter and Izzy found out on his first entry that it wasn't gonna happen with Yoel. But Costa's aggression will play into what is typically Izzy's style which is slipping and countering. Robert Whitaker has thrown off some very talented striking with his versatility and feinting (Yoel included) but he never came close with Adesanya.

This is where I think Costa's pretty interesting though. Generally, I find that he's smarter with his aggression than a typical power striker. He's good in space but he really let's go after he moves guys back to the cage. Izzy is a ring general though, not easy to trap and very aware of the space he has. Costa being aggressive could get him blasted if he's reckless, though I remember watching early fights of his and thinking that he's a smarter striker than typical reckless KO power strikers. Early Costa gave me just has many Shogun Rua vibes (my favorite PRIDE fighter) as he did Vitor Belfort. His more recent efforts haven't showcased the Rua aspect but if that Paulo is fighting than the fight will be decided by patience and how often Paulo can get Izzy's feet behind the black line.


You think Costa juices?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1097 » by j4remi » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:28 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
You think Costa juices?


I've come to assume that everyone's chasing an edge. I think post-USADA, it's gotten harder to hide. But I'm generally more indifferent to it unless it appears particularly egregious. Costa might be juicing, but if he's getting away with it than a bunch of other guys are too, so I think the playing field is mostly level. The TRT era was WILD!
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1098 » by Manhattan Project » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:29 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
You think Costa juices?


I've come to assume that everyone's chasing an edge. I think post-USADA, it's gotten harder to hide. But I'm generally more indifferent to it unless it appears particularly egregious. Costa might be juicing, but if he's getting away with it than a bunch of other guys are too, so I think the playing field is mostly level. The TRT era was WILD!


Me and my friend were taking about guys who never got caught but probably were. What do you think about Johny Hendricks?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1099 » by j4remi » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:55 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:
Me and my friend were taking about guys who never got caught but probably were. What do you think about Johny Hendricks?


Hendricks is my FAVORITE example of pre-USADA vs post-USADA collapsing :lol: . From champion pre-USADA that most people think beat one of the top 3 fighters of all time to losing at bare knuckle boxing to a late replacement no name.

I'm skeptical of every fighter that looked like a star pre USADA but crashed hard post.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 252 DC vs Stipe 3 Rubber Match for Best UFC HW all time 

Post#1100 » by HighRyzer83 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:29 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
j4remi wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Yoel refused to move forward though (or do much of anything), that's why Izzy was mostly unscathed. Even then, Adesanya got majorly popped the one time he came into Romero's space.

I don't think Costa will have that same level of timidity.


Yeah, the challenge of evaluating off of Romero was that both fighters played to counter and Izzy found out on his first entry that it wasn't gonna happen with Yoel. But Costa's aggression will play into what is typically Izzy's style which is slipping and countering. Robert Whitaker has thrown off some very talented striking with his versatility and feinting (Yoel included) but he never came close with Adesanya.

This is where I think Costa's pretty interesting though. Generally, I find that he's smarter with his aggression than a typical power striker. He's good in space but he really let's go after he moves guys back to the cage. Izzy is a ring general though, not easy to trap and very aware of the space he has. Costa being aggressive could get him blasted if he's reckless, though I remember watching early fights of his and thinking that he's a smarter striker than typical reckless KO power strikers. Early Costa gave me just has many Shogun Rua vibes (my favorite PRIDE fighter) as he did Vitor Belfort. His more recent efforts haven't showcased the Rua aspect but if that Paulo is fighting than the fight will be decided by patience and how often Paulo can get Izzy's feet behind the black line.


You think Costa juices?

I don't think so. Not only because he was clean on every test (he tied for being the 3rd most tested in 2019 with 14), but also because he gasses rather early. His physique appears to be impossible to some. But they don't train like he does. He lifts literally to the point of tearing his bicep. I believe he is genetically built that way especially mentally. If he was juicing, his cardio would be way better on EPO. Which is why I think Usman juices.

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