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Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1201 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:46 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
j4remi wrote:Wow, Barboza and Sandhagen with great wins! I think Dana wanted Moraes to skip past Sterling but now that Sandhagen just didn’t that, no more excuses to cheat Aljo out his title shot. This division is so sick!


So I love me the Korean Zombie as much as the next guy, so I guess the question is, does Ortega have enough power in his hands to put him away? Will ring rust really be a thing for Ortega, because all I can see is him being picked apart by Holloway in that epic beat down. I want Zombie to win, I'd love to see him fight for the belt again even though I don't think he'd win.


I'll give this one a shot.

I don't think we see the same Brian Ortega we saw before this hiatus. He has an entire new training team and he's been working hard. I think Ortega is going to look to use his stand up to get this fight to the ground. I know Zombie has pretty good ground defense too so this should be a great fight.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1202 » by Manhattan Project » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:54 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:I'll give this one a shot.

I don't think we see the same Brian Ortega we saw before this hiatus. He has an entire new training team and he's been working hard. I think Ortega is going to look to use his stand up to get this fight to the ground. I know Zombie has pretty good ground defense too so this should be a great fight.


Yeah that's the thing, even when Zombie loses it's in spectacular fashion as many of them have been fight of the nights. Ortega is similar that his fights tend to be performances or fight of the nights. To beat Jung, you have to beat him, Ortega loves to go for that choke that I just don't see him being able to get off.

Maybe Ortega comes in humbled after the loss to Holloway, perhaps he comes back like Garbrandt and gets back to the basics.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1203 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:00 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:I'll give this one a shot.

I don't think we see the same Brian Ortega we saw before this hiatus. He has an entire new training team and he's been working hard. I think Ortega is going to look to use his stand up to get this fight to the ground. I know Zombie has pretty good ground defense too so this should be a great fight.


Yeah that's the thing, even when Zombie loses it's in spectacular fashion as many of them have been fight of the nights. Ortega is similar that his fights tend to be performances or fight of the nights. To beat Jung, you have to beat him, Ortega loves to go for that choke that I just don't see him being able to get off.

Maybe Ortega comes in humbled after the loss to Holloway, perhaps he comes back like Garbrandt and gets back to the basics.


Oh, I think without a doubt he was humbled. Check out The Weasel's take

;t=545s
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1204 » by Manhattan Project » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:10 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:I'll give this one a shot.

I don't think we see the same Brian Ortega we saw before this hiatus. He has an entire new training team and he's been working hard. I think Ortega is going to look to use his stand up to get this fight to the ground. I know Zombie has pretty good ground defense too so this should be a great fight.


Yeah that's the thing, even when Zombie loses it's in spectacular fashion as many of them have been fight of the nights. Ortega is similar that his fights tend to be performances or fight of the nights. To beat Jung, you have to beat him, Ortega loves to go for that choke that I just don't see him being able to get off.

Maybe Ortega comes in humbled after the loss to Holloway, perhaps he comes back like Garbrandt and gets back to the basics.


Oh, I think without a doubt he was humbled. Check out The Weasel's take

;t=545s


Haha he pretty much echoed my sentiments, it's a lot of unknowns with Ortega. Changing camps/coaches isn't always an immediate path to success, but in his case it has to be better. He can be humbled all he wants, at the end of the day he still has to go out there and prove he has the power. Gardbrandt finally fought smart and used his speed and power and put Assunção to sleep. Ortega needs to come up with something because I just don't see him getting a submission.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1205 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:16 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:
Yeah that's the thing, even when Zombie loses it's in spectacular fashion as many of them have been fight of the nights. Ortega is similar that his fights tend to be performances or fight of the nights. To beat Jung, you have to beat him, Ortega loves to go for that choke that I just don't see him being able to get off.

Maybe Ortega comes in humbled after the loss to Holloway, perhaps he comes back like Garbrandt and gets back to the basics.


Oh, I think without a doubt he was humbled. Check out The Weasel's take

;t=545s


Haha he pretty much echoed my sentiments, it's a lot of unknowns with Ortega. Changing camps/coaches isn't always an immediate path to success, but in his case it has to be better. He can be humbled all he wants, at the end of the day he still has to go out there and prove he has the power. Gardbrandt finally fought smart and used his speed and power and put Assunção to sleep. Ortega needs to come up with something because I just don't see him getting a submission.


I knew there was a recent fighter who came back after a long layoff, etc., and it was Garbrandt who went back to the drawing board. Also, Gaethje went with a new training staff and came out much more disciplined against Tony. Sometimes things click with a fighter after they finally come to terms with the weaknesses in their games. At least the good ones do. We'll find out on Saturday .

Btw, I really love watching Zombie fight but I also love a good comeback story.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1206 » by j4remi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:47 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:I'll give this one a shot.

I don't think we see the same Brian Ortega we saw before this hiatus. He has an entire new training team and he's been working hard. I think Ortega is going to look to use his stand up to get this fight to the ground. I know Zombie has pretty good ground defense too so this should be a great fight.


Yeah that's the thing, even when Zombie loses it's in spectacular fashion as many of them have been fight of the nights. Ortega is similar that his fights tend to be performances or fight of the nights. To beat Jung, you have to beat him, Ortega loves to go for that choke that I just don't see him being able to get off.

Maybe Ortega comes in humbled after the loss to Holloway, perhaps he comes back like Garbrandt and gets back to the basics.


Oh, I think without a doubt he was humbled. Check out The Weasel's take

;t=545s


Holy crap! I didn't even realize Gamrot was with the UFC now. When Weasel says KSW is one of the best promotions overseas, he's not kidding. KSW is one of the most entertaining leagues outside of the UFC and without the star power that a One or Bellator has. Mateusz is the TRUTH! I don't know the other fella well enough to comment on but that fight is automatic fun (Gamrot will join Jiri Prochazka as Euro fighters that I massively hype until they force me to stop...Jiri vs Blachowicz is the fight we need but no one knows it yet).

But the main piece of discussion is definitely Ortega/Zombie. I do think he has the requisite power to knock KZ down or off balance, I just don't know if he has the technique necessary. The new camp and training regiment could change things, but he didn't before and he also had an ACL tear last year. So the added variables are new camp and team, potential octagon rust and returning from a bad knee injury. I typically wouldn't expect a guy off a knee injury to focus his training on wrestling that he hasn't done (picture going from ACL surgery to tapping your knee on a single leg entry and driving through, no bueno for the inexperienced).

For me, I always had KZ comfortably taking this as long as he keeps it on the feet. Weasel got at this but I didn't like the examples he gave; Zombie chews up pressure and volume guys. I'm more thinking about how he was walking away with the Yair fight and how he did Hominick though. What has always scared me about this fight though is that Zombie is completely not scared to take whatever an opponent gives him. I've never considered him a tactician, just a guy who is so well-rounded that he capitalizes when a weakness appears. He has fun out there and it cost him the Yair fight and I could completely picture him playing to comfortably in clinch or ground situations. I'm curious myself to see both guys roll but I also think that's the obvious place for Ortega to steal the fight.

I'd take Zombie by decision. I'm expecting a FotN winner built off of Ortega's chin and Zombie's do-it-all style. And I'll do yall one better...I think Zombie has the goods to be a really scary opponent for Volkanovski too (I like the match-up with Volk better than Max for Zombie).

On a side note, it's rare that I don't agree with Zombie but I don't picture Chookagian having a Joanna-lite performance against Andrade. I'm not a fan of Chookagian at all, so it's probably bias. I think Andrade, for as plodding as she is, can find enough leg kicks and hooks to the body where Katlyn will slow down and not be able to avoid the trouble. It's tough to say though because Jessica's been night and day from 135 to 115. Now at 125 and against the rangiest opponent she could ask for, it's kind of the perfect test to see if her strength translates 10 lbs up. I got Andrade with a late stoppage.

Also there's a GREAT boxing match on Saturday. Vasyl Lomachenko aka my favorite fighter to watch vs Teofimo Lopez aka a VERY good fighter with a nice extensive amateur record and who has looked great. Loma has hit a point in his career where my boxing head friends just want to see him get pressed, so I never know if it's a bias thing...but some of my buddies are really gassing Lopez for this one. I don't see it. Always fun to note about my boy Loma, he had almost 400 amateur boxing fights and Lopez had over 150 himself...so these guys bring an OBNOXIOUS amount experience to the ring.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1207 » by bringbackhoffa » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:53 pm

Hopefully a Zombie win locks him in for a title shot next, do not want to see Zabit or Yair sneaking into that shot. Zombie has paid his dues and leaves it all in the cage. Hopefully he can become a bit more active going forward
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1208 » by Manhattan Project » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:14 pm

j4remi wrote:But the main piece of discussion is definitely Ortega/Zombie. I do think he has the requisite power to knock KZ down or off balance, I just don't know if he has the technique necessary. The new camp and training regiment could change things, but he didn't before and he also had an ACL tear last year. So the added variables are new camp and team, potential octagon rust and returning from a bad knee injury. I typically wouldn't expect a guy off a knee injury to focus his training on wrestling that he hasn't done (picture going from ACL surgery to tapping your knee on a single leg entry and driving through, no bueno for the inexperienced).

For me, I always had KZ comfortably taking this as long as he keeps it on the feet. Weasel got at this but I didn't like the examples he gave; Zombie chews up pressure and volume guys. I'm more thinking about how he was walking away with the Yair fight and how he did Hominick though. What has always scared me about this fight though is that Zombie is completely not scared to take whatever an opponent gives him. I've never considered him a tactician, just a guy who is so well-rounded that he capitalizes when a weakness appears. He has fun out there and it cost him the Yair fight and I could completely picture him playing to comfortably in clinch or ground situations. I'm curious myself to see both guys roll but I also think that's the obvious place for Ortega to steal the fight.

I'd take Zombie by decision. I'm expecting a FotN winner built off of Ortega's chin and Zombie's do-it-all style. And I'll do yall one better...I think Zombie has the goods to be a really scary opponent for Volkanovski too (I like the match-up with Volk better than Max for Zombie).

Also there's a GREAT boxing match on Saturday. Vasyl Lomachenko aka my favorite fighter to watch vs Teofimo Lopez aka a VERY good fighter with a nice extensive amateur record and who has looked great. Loma has hit a point in his career where my boxing head friends just want to see him get pressed, so I never know if it's a bias thing...but some of my buddies are really gassing Lopez for this one. I don't see it. Always fun to note about my boy Loma, he had almost 400 amateur boxing fights and Lopez had over 150 himself...so these guys bring an OBNOXIOUS amount experience to the ring.


Yeah I think you nailed KZ for me, he just comes forward and fights taking what his opponent gives him. I think we all expect this one to be a hell of a fight, how could it not with these two guys involved? I guess Ortega's technique will be the main thing I pay attention to him, just pessimistic about him being able to pull that win. I can't even point out the Aldo fight because Zombie got hurt and Aldo capitalized on it.

As far as Lomachenko, he's literally the only boxer I watch these days. A: Because the fights are free and B: He has some if not the best footwork since Roy Jones Jr to me. I'm far from a boxing guy, haven't cared since I paid for a Tyson fight and it was over in two minutes. A lot of talk about Lopez's power and size, but to me Loma is just that rarefied air that I need to see him lose to believe it. I know practically nothing about Lopez aside from the little coverage I've seen on ESPN, but at least they're not ducking each other. Winner walks away with what, 83 belts? Boxing's weight divisions always cracked me up, but it should be fun.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1209 » by j4remi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:42 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:Yeah I think you nailed KZ for me, he just comes forward and fights taking what his opponent gives him. I think we all expect this one to be a hell of a fight, how could it not with these two guys involved? I guess Ortega's technique will be the main thing I pay attention to him, just pessimistic about him being able to pull that win. I can't even point out the Aldo fight because Zombie got hurt and Aldo capitalized on it.

As far as Lomachenko, he's literally the only boxer I watch these days. A: Because the fights are free and B: He has some if not the best footwork since Roy Jones Jr to me. I'm far from a boxing guy, haven't cared since I paid for a Tyson fight and it was over in two minutes. A lot of talk about Lopez's power and size, but to me Loma is just that rarefied air that I need to see him lose to believe it. I know practically nothing about Lopez aside from the little coverage I've seen on ESPN, but at least they're not ducking each other. Winner walks away with what, 83 belts? Boxing's weight divisions always cracked me up, but it should be fun.


Absolutely on keeping an eye out for Ortega's technique. I think the Holloway beating caused people to overblow Ortega's weaknesses a bit; but exaggeration still means there's a problem. T-City's defensive sentimentality has just never really been there (the Moicano fight is a great example). If he uses a better guard and shows some improvement in his footwork, I'll be happy. Ortega can throw a nice boxing combination and he has serious pop. He was working on shoulder rolls which are a fantastic tool...if you actually pull them off and mitigate opponent's force though! Dude's young(ish) though and was developing, so with a more dedicated team we could see real growth.

On Loma, he's one of the only boxers that I drop everything to watch in this era. I LOVE that Roy Jones comparison because there are only a handful of the absolute elites that I've ever seen go into the ring and just toy with opponents at the top levels. Those 2, Mayweather and in MMA Anderson Silva. Here's a dope mirroring moment. I can't get time stamps to work but

Cut to 1:46 into this clip...Here's Loma against an opponent who is basically shelled up, guard high and won't come forward or open up for anything. So Loma says "Screw it, we'll fight where you can be comfortable." Not at all concerned or worried, just taking a man's heart.


Cut to 5:32 into this clip...Here's Anderson Silva annoyed after half a round of Bonnar trying to smother him to not let Silva open up. Silva basically decides "I'll beat you on your terms" and backs up to the cage, not at all concerned or worried, just taking a man's heart...also Bonnar popped for PED's for this fight too.


It's definitely rare air fam. I stan this stuff!

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1210 » by Manhattan Project » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:53 pm

j4remi wrote:
On Loma, he's one of the only boxers that I drop everything to watch in this era. I LOVE that Roy Jones comparison because there are only a handful of the absolute elites that I've ever seen go into the ring and just toy with opponents at the top levels. Those 2, Mayweather and in MMA Anderson Silva. Here's a dope mirroring moment. I can't get time stamps to work but

Cut to 1:46 into this clip...Here's Loma against an opponent who is basically shelled up, guard high and won't come forward or open up for anything. So Loma says "Screw it, we'll fight where you can be comfortable." Not at all concerned or worried, just taking a man's heart.


Cut to 5:32 into this clip...Here's Anderson Silva annoyed after half a round of Bonnar trying to smother him to not let Silva open up. Silva basically decides "I'll beat you on your terms" and backs up to the cage, not at all concerned or worried, just taking a man's heart...also Bonnar popped for PED's for this fight too.


It's definitely rare air fam. I stan this stuff!

Just for good measure, RJJ's most memorable KO here


Look you can't take anything away from Mayweather, he's one of the greatest of all times regardless of what you feel about him. Just for me, he's a counter puncher, arguably the greatest of all time. I was just never a fan :lol: But yeah, you couldn't hit him so why bother changing it up.

Loma literally recreated the Duran fight and had Rigondeaux saying no mas :lol:
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 253 Adesanya/Costa and the post Jon Jones LHW era begins 

Post#1211 » by j4remi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:58 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:
Look you can't take anything away from Mayweather, he's one of the greatest of all times regardless of what you feel about him. Just for me, he's a counter puncher, arguably the greatest of all time. I was just never a fan :lol: But yeah, you couldn't hit him so why bother changing it up.

Loma literally recreated the Duran fight and had Rigondeaux saying no mas :lol:


I feel you fam. Mayweather is in the GOAT convo, no questions asked. But he's far from my favorite fighter. I take Jones Jr's prime over Mayweather's tbh.

Loma steals guys' confidence. He's lost a step, but that's only closed the gap to him winning clearly instead of absolutely wrecking these days.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1212 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:25 am

Jimmy Crute!
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1213 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:03 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:Jimmy Crute!


Literally just tuned in for the main event, didn't even care about this card. But that Crute KO was impressive.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1214 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:17 am

Gave round 1 to Ortega based on the knock down.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1215 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:22 am

3-0 Ortega
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1216 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:29 am

Well we were watching Ortega's technique tonight, that's been impressive as all hell thus far. Zombie needs a finish to win this one.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1217 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:38 am

Great performance from Ortega. He shut Zombie out. 5-0
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1218 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:42 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:Great performance from Ortega


Yeah as much as I don't like him, he thoroughly just beat down KZ which was surprising. That Ortega easily beats Volkanovski to me and selfishly hopefully that means Holloway still gets a chance at the title after being robbed.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1219 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:49 am

I don't mind Lopez winning, he brought it but those scores made absolutely no sense. Lopez did a great job of taking away Loma's left and well Loma sleep walked through the first few rounds. All the praise to Lopez, he fought a nice fight tonight.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Ortega vs Zombie and Lomachenko vs Lopez next 

Post#1220 » by CjayC » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:10 am

Cards were a bit wide for me, but the right guy won the fight. You can't just barely throw a punch for 6 rounds and expect things to go over well.

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