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Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#241 » by j4remi » Fri Sep 6, 2019 12:18 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Yeah, I watched Luke's video on that too. Then I watched The Weasel's video ... and he changed my mind. :lol:

SMESH!


This Jack Slack piece is the one that's got me nervous :lol:

https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/more-sports/mma/ufc-242-khabib-vs-poirier-the-american-must-avoid-the-fence-to-stand-any-chance-1.1249222?fbclid=IwAR06Xs5muJL_1GIxQ7x6LYznUF9N5rcs3NRc9eb0hQZRwBDQKm_L4TLVmWE
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#242 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Sep 6, 2019 9:01 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Yeah, I watched Luke's video on that too. Then I watched The Weasel's video ... and he changed my mind. :lol:

SMESH!


This Jack Slack piece is the one that's got me nervous :lol:

https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/more-sports/mma/ufc-242-khabib-vs-poirier-the-american-must-avoid-the-fence-to-stand-any-chance-1.1249222?fbclid=IwAR06Xs5muJL_1GIxQ7x6LYznUF9N5rcs3NRc9eb0hQZRwBDQKm_L4TLVmWE


I have a question for you. Why is it that when Covington drops down for that single-leg, his opponent doesn't guillotine him?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#243 » by Jscratch1200 » Sat Sep 7, 2019 8:49 pm

Didn't realize this was an afternoon fight. I had planned to watch it. Dang.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#244 » by Stannis » Sat Sep 7, 2019 10:26 pm

Love the sportsmanship by these gentlemen.

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#245 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 7, 2019 10:56 pm

Jscratch1200 wrote:Didn't realize this was an afternoon fight. I had planned to watch it. Dang.


It's on YouTube
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#246 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 7, 2019 10:57 pm

GEOLINK wrote:Hoping Dustin pulls the upset.


1. SMESCH

2. TAP TAP TAP
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#247 » by HighRyzer83 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:46 am

Well there's no stopping that awesome grappling. I thought Dustin would be better in the clinch and at defending the takedown but its alot easier said than done. I still think Dustin should have stepped over during that guillotine when khabib shift to the side to avoid the pressure. Dustin could have let go of that choke, stepped over and took top position. Khabib never fought from the bottom so that would have been interesting.

Having said that there is no way Tony is beating khabib. It probably won't be a sub but he will out score Tony from the top to a 49-46, possibly 50-45 decision. The only way to beat him is by taking away or at least slowing down what he does better than anyone which is wrestling. So the only fighters that have anything beyond than a puncher's chance are GSP and Gregor Gillespie. And anyone who's going on their back against khabib will lose
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#248 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Sep 8, 2019 5:17 am

HighRyzer83 wrote:Well there's no stopping that awesome grappling. I thought Dustin would be better in the clinch and at defending the takedown but its alot easier said than done. I still think Dustin should have stepped over during that guillotine when khabib shift to the side to avoid the pressure. Dustin could have let go of that choke, stepped over and took top position. Khabib never fought from the bottom so that would have been interesting.

Having said that there is no way Tony is beating khabib. It probably won't be a sub but he will out score Tony from the top to a 49-46, possibly 50-45 decision. The only way to beat him is by taking away or at least slowing down what he does better than anyone which is wrestling. So the only fighters that have anything beyond than a puncher's chance are GSP and Gregor Gillespie. And anyone who's going on their back against khabib will lose


Dustin appeared to tired at that point in the fight for he arms to do the job on that guillotine. You could see it in his punches which were loopy and without any real power. And that's not from throwing too many punches, it was from having to carry Khabib's weight for almost all of those three round. Tony isn't beating him either. I'd love to see Nate vs. Khabib at 155 but I don't know that Nate cut that much weight again.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#249 » by waya » Sun Sep 8, 2019 5:57 am

HighRyzer83 wrote:Dustin could have let go of that choke, stepped over and took top position. Khabib never fought from the bottom so that would have been interesting.

Not to be pedantic, but Abel Trujillo had Khabib on his back for a few short spurts (before Khabib went on to throw him around and set the record for takedowns in a fight) and he was extremely active/aggressive:

https://streamable.com/013q3

I agree with your points tho
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#250 » by Cookies4Life » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:03 pm

Terrific win for Khabib, I was thoroughly impressed with how he was able to get out of that guillotine- especially the 2nd time when Dustin really had a tight position on it. Moving from side to side to give himself enough room to breathe while Dustin tired himself out in that position allowed Khabib to get out of that hold and than eventually position himself for the rear naked choke. He also has a very good chin and good recovery skills; he still hasn't been dropped by anyone in his entire MMA career which is quite amazing given the level of strikers he's been in there against.

Since coming back from injuries a few years ago, the only guy I see that can possibly beat him is Tony. Ferguson is a very unusual fighter who fights at unusual angles, throws unusual combinations with both his hands and elbows and he's extremely dangerous on the ground. He also has the best stamina in the entire sport which could trouble Khabib even on the ground. I have no doubt Khabib will take him to the ground whenever he wants (although Tony is no slouch in the wrestling department himself being a 2 time All American in college.) What will be intriguing is what happens when they're on the ground together since Tony is dangerous in every position on the mat. He has a great ground attack game even from the bottom and he's able to put a darce choke on in nearly any position from the ground. He's also a master at the triangle chokes.

This is the fight that will make either man the sure shot #1 P4P fighter in the sport IMO (I think at this moment Tony is criminally underrated in the rankings given the torrid stretch he's been on for the last half decade.) They're both sporting a 12 fight win streak in the UFC and IMO if Khabib beats Ferguson he'll cement himself not only as the greatest LW ever in the history of MMA but he'll have to be discussed as a potential GOAT of the sport. Beating Tony Ferguson would have to catapult him in that discussion. Ferguson is the only guy in the 155 lb division that has a credible shot at beating The Eagle.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#251 » by HighRyzer83 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 6:33 pm

Cookies4Life wrote:Terrific win for Khabib, I was thoroughly impressed with how he was able to get out of that guillotine- especially the 2nd time when Dustin really had a tight position on it. Moving from side to side to give himself enough room to breathe while Dustin tired himself out in that position allowed Khabib to get out of that hold and than eventually position himself for the rear naked choke. He also has a very good chin and good recovery skills; he still hasn't been dropped by anyone in his entire MMA career which is quite amazing given the level of strikers he's been in there against.

Since coming back from injuries a few years ago, the only guy I see that can possibly beat him is Tony. Ferguson is a very unusual fighter who fights at unusual angles, throws unusual combinations with both his hands and elbows and he's extremely dangerous on the ground. He also has the best stamina in the entire sport which could trouble Khabib even on the ground. I have no doubt Khabib will take him to the ground whenever he wants (although Tony is no slouch in the wrestling department himself being a 2 time All American in college.) What will be intriguing is what happens when they're on the ground together since Tony is dangerous in every position on the mat. He has a great ground attack game even from the bottom and he's able to put a darce choke on in nearly any position from the ground. He's also a master at the triangle chokes.

This is the fight that will make either man the sure shot #1 P4P fighter in the sport IMO (I think at this moment Tony is criminally underrated in the rankings given the torrid stretch he's been on for the last half decade.) They're both sporting a 12 fight win streak in the UFC and IMO if Khabib beats Ferguson he'll cement himself not only as the greatest LW ever in the history of MMA but he'll have to be discussed as a potential GOAT of the sport. Beating Tony Ferguson would have to catapult him in that discussion. Ferguson is the only guy in the 155 lb division that has a credible shot at beating The Eagle.

I'm with you I like Tony and hope he wins. But fighting from the back against khabib is not going to work. Damian Maia is arguably the best BJJ expert in MMA today, and it was completely nullified by Colby and Usman. Wrestlers have a way of nuetralizing that shyt. It's just physics. Especially when strikes are introduced. It's not going to work against the best wrestler in the division who know how to defend subs well.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#252 » by GEOLINK » Sun Sep 8, 2019 7:05 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
GEOLINK wrote:Hoping Dustin pulls the upset.


1. SMESCH

2. TAP TAP TAP

Khabib is an anomaly. Dude is my size but he has the grips of a God.

Tony is the last hope here as far as people who can possibly beat him. Him or a motivated Conor.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#253 » by GEOLINK » Sun Sep 8, 2019 7:06 pm

Dustin wasn't right mentally in there. Dude kept looking at his corner every time he was stuck on the cage with Khabib asking for directions.

That's not the correct approach if you're confident in who you're fighting.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#254 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Sep 8, 2019 11:49 pm

GEOLINK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
GEOLINK wrote:Hoping Dustin pulls the upset.


1. SMESCH

2. TAP TAP TAP

Khabib is an anomaly. Dude is my size but he has the grips of a God.

Tony is the last hope here as far as people who can possibly beat him. Him or a motivated Conor.


Nobody in that weight class is beating Khabib after what I just saw. Honestly, all pre-fight puffing aside, I really thought it would have been a much closer fight because of Poirier's performances recently and especially against Max. As Khabib striking technique improves (and it's already improved some), the tougher he's going to be.

My question is, does he ever go up to 170? I'd love to see him and Covington go at it.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#255 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Sep 8, 2019 11:52 pm

GEOLINK wrote:Dustin wasn't right mentally in there. Dude kept looking at his corner every time he was stuck on the cage with Khabib asking for directions.

That's not the correct approach if you're confident in who you're fighting.


He wasn't right because Khabib's wrestling/judo gets into opponents' heads. It messes up their game plans just like Colby messed up Lawler's game plan. I'm more and more convinced the wrestling is the foundation for today's great MMA star.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#256 » by HighRyzer83 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 4:06 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
GEOLINK wrote:Dustin wasn't right mentally in there. Dude kept looking at his corner every time he was stuck on the cage with Khabib asking for directions.

That's not the correct approach if you're confident in who you're fighting.


He wasn't right because Khabib's wrestling/judo gets into opponents' heads. It messes up their game plans just like Colby messed up Lawler's game plan. I'm more and more convinced the wrestling is the foundation for today's great MMA star.

It Always has been my friend. Back in the day it was Coleman and Severn throwing people around. then when BJJ (gracie) was introduced, wrestlers were getting submitted so wrestling quickly evolved to apply but more importantly to defend subs. It was naturally an easy adjustment considering wrestlers already had the leveraging, balance, and positioning down; as well as some native chokes. Of course you cannot be one dimensional in today's MMA but if there's ever a foundation where more of the percentage should be allocated to it's wrestling without a doubt.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#257 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Sep 9, 2019 4:16 am

HighRyzer83 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
GEOLINK wrote:Dustin wasn't right mentally in there. Dude kept looking at his corner every time he was stuck on the cage with Khabib asking for directions.

That's not the correct approach if you're confident in who you're fighting.


He was right because Khabib's wrestling/judo gets into opponents' heads. It messes up their game plans just like Colby messed up Lawler's game plan. I'm more and more convinced the wrestling is the foundation for today's great MMA star.


It Always has been my friend. Back in the day it was Coleman and Severn throwing people around. then when BJJ (gracie) was introduced, wrestlers were getting submitted so wrestling quickly evolved to apply but more importantly to defend subs. It was naturally an easy adjustment considering wrestlers already had the leveraging, balance, and positioning down; as well as some native chokes. Of course you cannot be one dimensional in today's MMA but if there's ever a foundation where more of the percentage should be allocated to it's wrestling without a doubt.


Exactly.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#258 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Sep 9, 2019 4:51 am

I thought the Calderwood-Lee fight was the most interesting one. Jojo has improved.

And Ferreira was very good too.

Khabib is really good, will probably break the consecutive win record
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib 

Post#259 » by j4remi » Mon Sep 9, 2019 12:38 pm

I've never been more frustrated than watching Dustin Poirier's mind melt after the first takedown from Khabib. Dude did not fight up to his potential one bit. He still managed to make things interesting a couple of times and showed flashes of the techniques I thought would make the whole fight a lot more dangerous. He used clever footwork to step in deep and land one of the top two hardest punches Khabib has ever taken. Khabib had to back pedal from that one but Poirier was sloppy and rushed in without the poise that helped him close out a guy like Gaethje. Poirier went for the guillotine early, then tried to hit the switch and I'll say that Khabib's countering the switch and turning it into a back take once and a full mount the second time was mind boggling. But Khabib still got himself into a deep arm in guillotine and Poirier just held on too long instead of looking to use it to sweep or create space and get up. Lastly, Poirier would stall Khabib but then look to his corner for help and while he relaxed, Khabib would throw him off balance. It was just bizarre from a guy who has looked so poised and prepared before, that Khabib was able to completely break that and show Poirier's got some holes still.

I'd like Poirier vs Iaquinta next, gimme two of the best boxers in the division and let them rock out. But I'd also be curious about Charles Oliveira vs Poirier...someone who can be a boa constrictor on the ground. Gillespie is another Khabib and on the rise, so he'd be a big threat too.

But there were enough little things in this fight that it still makes me think Tony Ferguson presents a unique challenge for Khabib. Ferguson won't get lost on the ground, cuts some of the best angles into his attacks in the division and sports unique footwork that tends to keep him near the middle of the cage rather than up against it. This is beginning to feel like Ronda Rousey in that her opponents were so psyched out going into fights that they didn't play to their strengths and that would let Ronda look even more dominant than her superior grappling already made her. Khabib isn't getting away with giving up that guillotine to Tony; at best he gets swept and has a 10th planet black belt on top of him. Plus, I expect Tony to stick to his guns and not lose track of himself...Kevin Lee's blast double couldn't stop Tony from being in his grill on the feet and land a choke from being taken down. So gimme Ferguson with the upset, styles make fights and I've seen flashes of holes in Khabib's game that Tony's uniquely built to take advantage of.

Other than that...JoJo should be fighting for the title. I thought she beat Chookagian and now she took a clear dub over KGB. Islam was a disappointment but if you're winning on the feet, why take a fight where it's more dangerous? Still, off his performance I would NOT offer up Paul Felder or even Barboza the losing fighter. Put him in there with the other guy no one wants to fight Ryan Hall...that should be the punishment for guys avoiding engagement once they're ranked top 15. Plus Islam actually might have answers for Hall's long distance imanari attempts. Felder vs Barboza was so close and good that I'd take a third one. Great fight and both guys are still scary. I'd go Barboza vs Alexander Hernandez (pressure fighter with wrestling) and Felder vs Gaethje (should he beat Cerrone) would just continue to run of Gaethje dream match-ups. Blaydes did as expected with a bit more excitement to boot, he should get the winner of JDS and Volkov next for a title shot after Ngannou/Stipe.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#260 » by Stannis » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:14 pm

GEOLINK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
GEOLINK wrote:Hoping Dustin pulls the upset.


1. SMESCH

2. TAP TAP TAP

Him or a motivated Conor.

Are we saying Conor wasn't motivated in that first fight?

He definitely was. And with all illegal stuff he was getting away with throughout the fight, things couldn't get any better for him.
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