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Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC on ESPN 7 + news

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#41 » by Strick » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:23 am

newyorker4ever wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:Great fight card, I was also watching the great Lomachenko dismantle Crolla on ESPN PPV. Loma is some kind of fighter.

I'm shocked to see how small Max looked at 155 lbs; he's a very tall guy for 145 lbs and I thought he'd fill out to being a big, strong lightweight.

he needs to go back down to featherweight and continue carving out his legacy as the best featherweight fighter in UFC history. He needs a "softer" touch for his fight back since he's been taking on killers on a consistent basis.

Props to Dustin, I didn't think he had it in him (I though his win against Max years back was just a fluke between 2 green fighters.) I don't know how he'll do against Khabib but he definitely has earned his shot given his resume for the past 2 years.

Israel and Kevin was one of the best MMA fights I've ever seen and I started watching this back when it was in tournament format with Gracie dominating back in the mid 90's.



I didn't think Max looked all that small. I mean Porier was definitely the bigger guy when we're talking width and bigger chest but even Cormier and Joe were saying when the fight started how Max's back looked really wide and it looked like he put the weight on well. If they fought each other again at 155 it wouldn't surprise me one single bit if Max would win the fight and even win it early by knockout. Max is an absolute beast and how easily he beat some of the guys he's beaten since the loss to McGregor is amazing especially both J.Aldo fights and what he did to B.Ortega. Now i know those fights were at featherweight and he went up to lightweight to fight Porier but i just think it's simply that Porier got the best of him and fought a great fight.

So since you've been watching MMA for as long as i have then you probably appreciated the little tribute they did to Rich Franklin after the Roundtree vs Anders fight for him getting inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I was a big Franklin fan and dude had some great wars in the octagon. I was more of a Dan Severn and Don Frye fan back in the day.

Rich Franklin looked awesome! I wish I would have been around as a viewer back then. I would have probably been a bit too young to appreciate the greatness, but the guy was like the real life vs of the guy from the movie Warrior. Former teacher and just a total f*cking badass.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#42 » by j4remi » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:35 pm

Fam....Fam!!! What a weekend of fights!? The main and co-main obviously stole a lot of the thunder but boxing heads got another example of why I think Lomachenko is the best P4P boxer in the game (and most entertaining too) and the undercard included some standout performances. I want to do a couple of quick hits for highlights from the earlier performances on the card before deep diving into those epic main events at UFC 236.

- Montel Jackson overwhelmed Andre Soukhamthat and that's a bigger accomplishment than it might seem. Andre is tough as nails, knows how to force a dog fight and has shown promise as an exciting fighter. Jackson just was better everywhere and has all of the tools to become a fast riser as he builds experience. I'd love to see him fight a 13-15 ranked opponent like Almeida and then move slowly up the ladder from there, addressing some of the real tests.

- Belal Muhammad is just that dude to me. He's a workhorse, tough as nails and makes solid adjustments to pull of wins. Millender (Turner too actually) was a pretty hot prospect and Muhammad had to weather a storm early to get himself into gear and take over...but he did. Muhammad still looks more like an eventual gatekeeper but the guys that beat him are going to be top 15 level talents imo and he may be able to work within those rankings himself soon.

- On the podcast I mentioned Pantoja vs Reis as potential grappling fun...nope. Pantoja dropped Reis standing and finished on the ground in a fight that saw a top 5 ranked fighter stopped inside of the first. Pantoja is a crisp striker with BJJ accolades and a really great pace to his game. Pantoja should move past Figuieredo and Reis, planting him firmly in the top three with grappling ability to compete with those killers too (Benavidez, Formiga, Cejudo the champ). Formiga should have next title shot, Pantoja vs Benavidez will be fire!

- Krylov tapping OSP was nice. For those unfamiliar, Krylov has always been a joy to watch standing up but guys usually taking him down and finish him there. OSP had already done that inside of 2 minutes in their first bout. This time though, the challenger was prepared and stopped all attempts to get the fight to the ground until it went their on his own terms. If Krylov can become tight with his takedown defense, he can be a prospect that makes noise. That's been his Achilles heel.

- Rountree's absolute beauty of a performance is being completely drown out which is a shame. He puzzled, chewed up and dropped Eryk Anders for three rounds in dominant fashion; an accomplishment that's more impressive if you consider the wars he had with Santos(next up for Jon Jones) and Machida (former champ). Rountree went "straight outta Thailand" with the bouncing front leg and stealthy leg kicks that were rapid and still carried big power. That lower body work opened up opportunities with his hands which have always packed big power too. Most importantly, his cardio was VASTLY improved. This is a guy I didn't trust after 3 minutes in a fight and he was dominant through 10 with a dropoff the last 5 that wasn't bad enough to harp on. We just don't know about his grappling which was a major weakness and went untested here.

- Gastelum vs Adesanya is probably the fight of the year even with 8 months left. That was a rare treat that we watch this sport for. Watching Gastelum slide inside of Adesanya's punches to counter fast and strong was eye opening; while watching Adesanya figure things out for 2 rounds before turning it on was ring craft beauty. The head/neck kick from Gastelum in the fourth was completely unexpected and I wonder what happens if Kelvin doesn't let wrestling instincts kick in at that point. For Israel it was the level shift early, going leg and body to keep Gastelum busy guessing...and then crowding him that worked. That's a trip because usually the smaller fighter needs to be inside, but it seemed like Adesanya got a lot done by shortening up the distance when it came to comfortably using his hands. The other eye opener is that Stylebender won the grappling battles for the most part, even chaining submission attempts and using different threats off his back to damn near cinch a triangle. That was great to see!

Keys in all this are:
1. Izzy probably won't see someone with that combination of speed and power again; but Romero can be even more explosive...just not with the consistency of Kelvin. So this may have been the worst of his match-ups but the next guys are even better wrestlers with similar power. So a lot remains to be seen.

2. Gastelum was MUCH shorter and had a lot to deal with. He's kind of just overcoming the size thing so far at 185 and his only stoppage loss came down to size more than anything imo. He'd really do well to cut to 170 where his unique blend of excellent grappling defense and striking acumen could be the perfect counter to the wrestler heavy top five (Usman, Colby and Askren all rely on wrestling to make their striking work or even make up for a lack of it in some cases).

3. The 185 lbs. title fights of the last two years have been some of the best examples of in-fight adjustments, ring craft and gritty performance in all of MMA. Whitaker/Romero I and II, GSP/Bisping, Adesanya/Gastelum...they're all fights where the adjustments between rounds cause momentum shifts and you can see the evolution of this sport. Guys can't get something to work, so they make a change that helps until their opponent adjusts and so on and so forth; all made possible by how well rounded they all are. I really LOVE this division.

- Max vs Dustin was another epic fight. Honestly, it kinda gave me the feel of when Rory/Lawler 2 was followed by Conor vs Mendes (another interim title fight ironically). The energy from the first fight fed into an already great fight and made it that much better. I'm with Dana White in thinking that Max looked a lot more sucked in than I expected. He has a frame to carry more weight and power imo but it wasn't there and that really complicated his exchanges with Poirier. He had to land clean and commit more to his punches in order to just push Diamond backwards and/or hurt him, which led to some of his general combinations being broken when Poirier just power countered through them. It felt like Max would accumulate volume damage for 2 to 3 minutes and Dustin would just time a couple of real power surges that would completely even things out. You can't be a volume puncher against a guy sitting back for counter opportunities if you can't hurt the guy and force reactions.

That's not to take away from a beautiful technical performances. Dustin did some Gaethje work, forearms shielding his face while Max's straight clanged off the thick part of his forehead. On top of that, a LOT of body punching just didn't seem to do enough for Max to get those hands to drop. Diamond never let Max get comfortable or build momentum, at times literally just powering through but also using smart craft with some level changes for takedown attempts. Still, both guys were brilliant and Max especially tough in this one. I had it 2-2 going into the 5th and Dustin's last minute takedown attempt killed a last minute push for Max trying to steal the fight. I had it 3-2 for Dustin. Key hot takes:

1. I still have no clue how Diamond deals with Khabib because it'll be his takedown defense that's tested. Max wore him down stamina wise and he had to take breaks or buy time in this fight...but he also had to swing HARD to back Max off and that was consistent. So the energy drain isn't comparable really, but it doesn't bode well. That said, Poirier's wrestling is underrated and his power is LEGIT which makes for an interesting style clash.

2. I'd want Max to take a year off to focus on his body if he decides to stick to 155. His frame can carry more and I think he SHOULD have more power because his boxing is really crisp. I don't think there was too much about his strategy to change for best results, but he'd need more power or an ability to stagger Dustin without throwing 110% behind his strikes to win a clear one. That doesn't bode well for match-ups with guys like Gaethje or Khabib who just have great chins and are fine taking a punch or two if they can land one of their power shots.

3. I still think Tony Ferguson stylistically would beat Dustin Poirier (and Khabib which always gets people mad). I'm also all the more intrigued by Volkanovski and Zabit match-ups for Max. I'd take Max spending another year solidifying his 145 reign; then taking some time off to really focus on his body. Michelle Waterson was a dominant technical 105'er who lost some fights due to power differences and reach changes at 115. She's now knocking on the door of a title shot with a more developed physique behind technical prowess that was never in question. Sometimes that 10 pounds can be a world of a difference, especially if you've been putting off muscular gains for weight cuts. Max being able to get down to 145 probably takes some sacrifice, but if he wants to move up then he'll need to kiss 145 goodbye permanently.

Back to 236....GREAT event. Joubin vs Grant was the only disappointment on the main card and it's a rare case where fights going to decision was actually more spectacular than getting the finishes. I loved it fam! It sucks that my boy Max took the L, but he showed enough that I'd like to see him commit to a single division and I'd expect him to find success. A lot of divisions are getting clearer pictures of where they'll be headed the rest of this year, so we can have some good discussions going forward (plus with anchor, throwing up quick podcast blurbs will be easier).
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein/Gafford

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#43 » by bringbackhoffa » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:31 pm

I really wanted Gastelum to win, but was surprised to learn he was only 27, we will see this matcup again. Only good thing that came about with this loss is that his manager Ali does not have another champ on his roster, really cant stand the guy. it seems like he takes all the credit for his guy efforts. he should be in the backround and not tweeting non stop, and if he wants to stir **** get in the cage.

Max needs to do the GSP thing if he wants to go up in weight. He needs to work on putting on some weight and work on a healthy cut. Porier just looked way bigger, but was very happy for him not sure he would of been able to win a title if he had to go up against the likes of Tony or Khabib or even Ragin Al.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#44 » by tjumper78 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:08 pm

ive been a fan of gastelum since he defeated uriah hall (so much hype at the time) in the tuf finals. my only complaint towards him was that he kept on failing/struggling to make the weight in 170. eventually, he was forced to move up to 185. i dont think he'll ever move back down as he's had some great results in 185.
also, as a fan of poirier, i was really worried about him gassing out after he went crazy in the 1st round. thankfully, his cardio held up for a nice win.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#45 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed May 1, 2019 7:38 am

Lesner's not coming back to the UFC. Stipe vs. DC 2 is now the fight. Fook Brock.

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#46 » by j4remi » Wed May 1, 2019 11:52 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:Lesner's not coming back to the UFC. Stipe vs. DC 2 is now the fight. Fook Brock.



I don't like immediate rematches for champs that get KO'ed early in fights. The UFC almost NEVER gives guys a third shot at the same opponent and typically I think we're better off with a Max/Dustin situation where they show up after years of growth and development...but Stipe's had a lot of down time, so maybe this one plays out different. I was massively hype for the first fight, but I don't care much at all on this one.

That said...hell yeah, Brock stay retired and let guys that actually deserve title shots fight. Ngannou and JDS should give us a contender in waiting by fight time.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein/Gafford

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#47 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed May 1, 2019 7:34 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Lesner's not coming back to the UFC. Stipe vs. DC 2 is now the fight. Fook Brock.



I don't like immediate rematches for champs that get KO'ed early in fights. The UFC almost NEVER gives guys a third shot at the same opponent and typically I think we're better off with a Max/Dustin situation where they show up after years of growth and development...but Stipe's had a lot of down time, so maybe this one plays out different. I was massively hype for the first fight, but I don't care much at all on this one.

That said...hell yeah, Brock stay retired and let guys that actually deserve title shots fight. Ngannou and JDS should give us a contender in waiting by fight time.


Yeah, Stipe believes he was owed an immediate rematch because of the length of time held the belt (or the number of times he successfully defended it?) but you raise a good point about getting knocked out so quickly. I think most that follow the sport wanted him to get back in there against another opponent to show that he was still that dominant force.

Do you think it would be too soon for Ngannou to get another championship shot? He TKO'd Cain.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#48 » by bringbackhoffa » Thu May 2, 2019 12:19 am

Stipe is an older fighter and there is not anyone you can say deserves a title shot over him

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SF: Taurean Prince (34)/Buddy (10)/ Siakam (4)
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C: JV(32)/JJJ (10)/Bol Bol(6)

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#49 » by j4remi » Thu May 2, 2019 12:36 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Yeah, Stipe believes he was owed an immediate rematch because of the length of time held the belt (or the number of times he successfully defended it?) but you raise a good point about getting knocked out so quickly. I think most that follow the sport wanted him to get back in there against another opponent to show that he was still that dominant force.

Do you think it would be too soon for Ngannou to get another championship shot? He TKO'd Cain.


I'd pick Ngannou or JDS for this opportunity instead of Stipe because I LOATHE watching a fighter sit and do nothing off a loss, but still get a title shot. Let me make the case for both guys over Stipe.

Stipe will be fighting for the belt in August with his last win coming in January of LAST year. It will be more than a year after his last fight which was the first round KO loss to DC. In that span:
- Ngannou has first round KO's over Curtis Blaydes who was and is a firm top 5 Heavyweight and Cain Velasquez, former champion and an All-Time Heavyweight in spite of his fairly brief career.

- JDS has three wins in that span. He beat Blagoy Ivanov who is unknown as a UFC fighter, but was the WSOF champion and also competed at a high level in Bellator. His only losses are JDS and Alexander Volkov; he's legit. Then JDS put a clinic on against Tai Tuivasa who was/is one of the more recognized prospects and KO threats in the division. Both those guys are currently top 15. His third win since Stipe got knocked out and sat at home is over Derrick Lewis; who fought for the HW belt AFTER Stipe lost it and is top five.

So keeping score, Stipe gets DC off a KO loss in the first round and over a year of inactivity. Ngannou has crushed a top five HW and a former champion in that time while JDS beat a top five HW and two more top 15 HW's over that same span. Those guys risked their rankings a combined 5 times against legitimate threats, while Stipe did absolutely nothing.

Don't get me wrong. Stipe has beaten both of those guys in the past and I rate him better than those two. But you should have to EARN your title shot, especially if you just got KO'ed. I didn't like it when JJ got her immediate rematch either and she's probably had the best bounce back from a dominant loss of champions that I can think of off hand. And lest we act like this is some unwritten rule; GSP had to fight Josh Koshchek to get a rematch for his belt when Matt Serra KO'ed him in the first round. So I get the logic on Stipe's rematch but don't agree with it at all and I think it incentivizes champs that lose (and potentially other high profile fighters) to sit around rather than hang on to their place in the rankings. Things can turn when you're risking your ranking, Jacare Souza is a perfect reminder.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein/Gafford

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#50 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu May 2, 2019 9:44 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Yeah, Stipe believes he was owed an immediate rematch because of the length of time held the belt (or the number of times he successfully defended it?) but you raise a good point about getting knocked out so quickly. I think most that follow the sport wanted him to get back in there against another opponent to show that he was still that dominant force.

Do you think it would be too soon for Ngannou to get another championship shot? He TKO'd Cain.


I'd pick Ngannou or JDS for this opportunity instead of Stipe because I LOATHE watching a fighter sit and do nothing off a loss, but still get a title shot. Let me make the case for both guys over Stipe.

Stipe will be fighting for the belt in August with his last win coming in January of LAST year. It will be more than a year after his last fight which was the first round KO loss to DC. In that span:
- Ngannou has first round KO's over Curtis Blaydes who was and is a firm top 5 Heavyweight and Cain Velasquez, former champion and an All-Time Heavyweight in spite of his fairly brief career.

- JDS has three wins in that span. He beat Blagoy Ivanov who is unknown as a UFC fighter, but was the WSOF champion and also competed at a high level in Bellator. His only losses are JDS and Alexander Volkov; he's legit. Then JDS put a clinic on against Tai Tuivasa who was/is one of the more recognized prospects and KO threats in the division. Both those guys are currently top 15. His third win since Stipe got knocked out and sat at home is over Derrick Lewis; who fought for the HW belt AFTER Stipe lost it and is top five.

So keeping score, Stipe gets DC off a KO loss in the first round and over a year of inactivity. Ngannou has crushed a top five HW and a former champion in that time while JDS beat a top five HW and two more top 15 HW's over that same span. Those guys risked their rankings a combined 5 times against legitimate threats, while Stipe did absolutely nothing.

Don't get me wrong. Stipe has beaten both of those guys in the past and I rate him better than those two. But you should have to EARN your title shot, especially if you just got KO'ed. I didn't like it when JJ got her immediate rematch either and she's probably had the best bounce back from a dominant loss of champions that I can think of off hand. And lest we act like this is some unwritten rule; GSP had to fight Josh Koshchek to get a rematch for his belt when Matt Serra KO'ed him in the first round. So I get the logic on Stipe's rematch but don't agree with it at all and I think it incentivizes champs that lose (and potentially other high profile fighters) to sit around rather than hang on to their place in the rankings. Things can turn when you're risking your ranking, Jacare Souza is a perfect reminder.


Yep. And I forgot about JDS. He's also been active and very sharp lately. So when I think about both Ngannou and JDS, it's really clear that one of those two should've gotten it. I'd be much more hyped for one of those two fights than the fight with Stipe. If Stipe gets knocked out in the 1st round again, fans and subscribers and going to be illin. :lol: Why would Dana put himself in that position with better options on the table?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#51 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat May 4, 2019 10:53 pm

Ragin Al vs. Cowboy tonight. Who ya got?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#52 » by j4remi » Mon May 6, 2019 2:40 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Ragin Al vs. Cowboy tonight. Who ya got?


Too late to own my prediction now, but I had Cerrone winning a close fight heading into it (mainly based on how Al struggled with Masvidal's length, kicks and distance). What we got though was a pleasant surprise. The fight was GREAT and Cerrone looks like he's really a force back down at 155. He still has flaws that boxers can take advantage of but his jab is sharper and everything just seems to have more stopping power. More importantly though, he's dealing with pressure a lot better than in the past. Al tried to press him to the cage and let loose, but Cerrone was hip to it and circled really well. The way he was changing levels with his kicks too...just really smart fighting. It was kinda Max-like; where the momentum built and built and built. Props to Al for toughness though, this was a bad match-up for his skillset.

Derek Brunson really showed off that he's more than a one dimensional power guy too. I think people sleep on him a bit because he's had some really poor IQ moments out there but his wrestling with Theodoro was top notch. That also makes the Adesanya performance even more impressive.

Burgos was another dude that really stood out. He went toe to toe with Cub and really dotted him up. Burgos has to get a bit better defensively, because he gives up big punches at times, but his offense is a sight to behold. Dude's got some of my favorite hands of the up and comers.

Other than that. Firas Zahabi's brother was disappointing, not enough effort to go to his strong point on the ground and he lost. Walt Harris damn near killed a guy. Lastly, Macy Chiasson is interesting as a prospect. She needs seasoning, that opening to a takedown was really bad rushing in but she's vicious and has good length to give women fits. Only 5 pro fights, so she's one of those where we'll get to learn a lot about her because she has plenty of tests to pass and build from.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein/Gafford

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

Ex A. Kaba J. Obiesie

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#53 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon May 6, 2019 5:19 pm

Thanks for the breakdown, remi.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Holloway vs Poirier UFC 236 tn!!! 

Post#54 » by j4remi » Wed May 8, 2019 2:54 pm

This is probably a good time to talk UFC 237, might throw something on Anchor to preview it in listening format too. 237 has some really interesting fights and the Brazilian crowd is always GREAT for energy. It's a home/away type environment but with a hyper passionate fanbase and some all time great talents virtually any time they throw up a PPV.

So the Main Card has two hyper interesting fights.

The main event is Rose Namajunas vs Jessica Andrade and I'm here for all of it. Andrade has dominated every opponent at 115 besides Joanna, who used great footwork and managed to spring right two her feet the few times Andrade did get things to the ground. Andrade's style is predictable; she's a bit plodding but packs a ton of power and I'm not sure I've seen her hurt by anyone in the division yet. Andrade can wrestle too, so when your back hits the cage you have to get out of there QUICKLY and she will throw body punches like Lineker to slow you down when you circle out. All of that said; Andrade has had her biggest difficulties with Joanna and Angela Hill. Hill didn't win, but was elusive and precise with her techniques. Rose has a ton of height and bouncy footwork that helps her manage distance. She's also very gifted on the ground, but that could be a gift and a curse. Where JJ was instantly in stand up mode when her back hit the mat; Rose may try to get to guard and work her way up from there...but Andrade overpowers everyone. I'm leaning toward Rose, but Andrade is one good round away from either stopping Rose or taking a ton of gas out of her tank. I think this could be a GREAT match-up.

Bonus note:
Rose's last tough practice for this camp was with Justin Gaethje as a sparring partner and Brett Okamoto said they sparred virtually non-stop for 40 minutes straight. That's great experience against an overpowering cardio guy.

Then you got Volkanovski vs Aldo. It should be the co-main but Anderson Silva has a GOAT legacy that got him the co-main instead. Anyway Volkanovski is like a modern Chad Mendes (and he KO'ed Mendes to lock that spot up). A stocky, powerful wrestler with really sharp striking behind it. He's one of those guys who is really sharp and when you start to focus on addressing that striking, he can get hands on someone for grappling. Aldo though, has mostly victimized shorter fighters with that piston jab from the lead hand and his ability to punish fighters to the body and legs when they try to push inside. Max is 5'11; Conor is 5'9; Volkanovski is 5'6...same as Frankie and Mendes, who are a combined 0-4 vs Aldo.
Now here's the thing...Mendes vs Aldo 2 is a classic, super tight fight and one of my all time favorites (top 10 seems right without thinking too hard on it). Mendes was able to take Aldo to a war in that fight but Aldo edged him. A superior version of Mendes against an aging Aldo could be a difference maker. It's just hard to see because Aldo has become Goro to Holloway's Shang Tsung.

Bonus Note: Aldo was in the hospital with a bacterial infection in his knee in late March. That seems like it'd interrupt camp but I didn't get deep in the details on it. I probably will if the betting lines look good enough to explore. Aldo was an underdog vs Moicano and I cashed beautifully on that.

Less hype for me but still must see is Anderson Silva vs Jarred Cannonier. I'm a HUGE Silva fan and he put on an entertaining effort against Israel Adesanya, but he is very far from his prime now. He's 1-5 in his last 6 with a ND against Nick Diaz due to popping for PED's. He simply hasn't been the same since Weidman and even his one win over Brunson was controversial and close. Cannonier is a good comparable to Brunson; bombs in his hands and solid all around game behind those. He looked average at 205, but always showed promise with his boxing. His one fight at 185 is a starching of top 10 MW David Branch. Anderson in his bag gets this fight done, but at this point it's possible Cannonier becomes the closer for a GOAT's career. So my bias toward Silva is why I'm not looking forward to this one.

Bonus Note: If Anderson wins, expect a Conor McGregor callout :banghead: I really hate when fighters look past opponents, it backfires really often.

Then there's some undercard names worth looking out for:
Little Nog is fighting Ryan Spann. Nog has rarely fought recently, but he's still been beating journeymen comfortably while losing to anyone worth ranking. Spann's last win I can remember is over the guy who looked so bad against Greg Hardy that people thought he threw the fight. So if Nog loses, it's more likely to father time.

Bethe Correia is fighting Irene Aldana. Correia has always been overrated to me while Aldana is no pushover but no world beater either. Aldana has given tough fights to women like Chookagian and beaten most of the lower tier opposition. That said, unless the betting line is pretty; I'd avoid this one. Middling fighters in Brazil can struggle even if they're even with competition and Correia has fought legitimate elite women.

Bj Penn is fighting Clay Guida too, Idc about that one...will skip. Penn is cooked and has some awful allegations, Guida is also pretty cooked but should retire if he loses to Penn. Who is 1-8-1 since 2010 :nonono:

Also the early Prelims has one fight I really like. Sergio Moraes vs Warrley Alves. Alves once beat Alan Jouban, Nordine Taleb and Colby Covington in three straight fights. He does have losses to Barbarena and Krause, but I think both guys are underrated (especially Krause). I used to really hype Alves, so I hope he can get it back. Moraes has been around forever and always been a tough out (except against Usman). This could be a legitimate sleeper fam and it's hilariously stuck on Fight Pass which is neglected unless you like the third party orgs.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein/Gafford

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Thug Rose vs Andrade UFC 237 

Post#55 » by Tron Carter » Fri May 10, 2019 10:38 pm

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best news I’ve gotten all year. El Cucuy returns!
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Thug Rose vs Andrade UFC 237 

Post#56 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat May 11, 2019 5:39 am

Tron Carter wrote:
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That's a fairly quick turnaround for Cowboy, no?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Thug Rose vs Andrade UFC 237 

Post#57 » by Tron Carter » Sat May 11, 2019 11:45 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Tron Carter wrote:
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best news I’ve gotten all year. El Cucuy returns!


That's a fairly quick turnaround for Cowboy, no?


less then a month’s notice but you know cowboy. the man is a savage.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Thug Rose vs Andrade UFC 237 

Post#58 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat May 11, 2019 6:04 pm

Tron Carter wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Tron Carter wrote:
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best news I’ve gotten all year. El Cucuy returns!


That's a fairly quick turnaround for Cowboy, no?


less then a month’s notice but you know cowboy. the man is a savage.


... after the first round. :lol: Seriously, Ferguson likes to bring that pressure early. I hope Cerrone is ready when the bell rings. Maybe he should spar one round right before the fight?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Thug Rose vs Andrade UFC 237 

Post#59 » by newyorker4ever » Sun May 12, 2019 12:40 pm

Thug Rose was piecing her up until getting dropped on her head. Rose looked like an absolute beast but that head drop was brutal. A.Silva is almost done. They're supposedly talking with him about a new UFC contract but he still has 3 fights left on his current contract so i wouldn't give him nothing until i see how he loos in his next couple of fights.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: Thug Rose vs Andrade UFC 237 

Post#60 » by j4remi » Mon May 13, 2019 10:10 pm

It was a really weird UFC, but the good news was that Bellator had some really good match-ups for the sleepy parts. The lesson of the weekend was how valuable leg kicks are. All of Andrade, Lima, Volkanovski and Cannonier utilized leg kicks to deal with longer, dangerous strikers. Don't sleep on the lower level work fam, I always complain that the inside leg kick is there for damn near anybody but no one takes it. Not on Saturday. Some recap...

Rose was putting on a consummate performance in the first and really piecing Andrade up. Using the kimura grip to get up off the slams looked really brilliant early on too. Andrade did have some success with leg kicks though, it was all she could land really. But it left Rose's legs red and swelling out of the second and combined with slowing down a pinch, Andrade started to find a couple of things. She landed some body work and got Rose to the cage a couple of times, but it was still Rose's round...until the slam. So basically on Andrade's third slam attempt, she pauses on the lift to break Rose's kimura grip for just long enough to slide her head into better position. Then when Andrade goes for the slam, Rose has to release the grip to avoid getting her head spiked but Rose didn't do that. One misstep led to a KO and we have a new champ.

Cannonier beat Silva on an inside leg kick to a knee that Silva said was damaged throughout his camp. The strategy with Silva is lame but works, you make Silva throw first or fire non-committal strikes that he can't counter. For Cannonier that safe strike was the leg kick to get himself out at a safe distance. I thought Silva looked comfortable though, the body kick was there all day and he started to find it. Silva just didn't protect the leg and eventually one of those low kicks dropped him.

Lastly Volkanovski had a great performance to blank Aldo but it was frustrating for me as well. Volkanovski modeled Max in so much as he threw a barrage of feints before committing to anything. Then he peppered Aldo with leg kicks and jabs mixed into those feints, especially the leg kicks. This really shut Aldo down, Aldo was gun shy most of the fight and couldn't get the read. Volk did a good job of making mini combos out of jabs, straights and leg kicks but none of it was threatening to stop the fight. That's my frustration, it was an army of feints and light safe striking but Aldo was the only one throwing for power. Aldo also may have just been off his game tbh, Volk's feints and work was good but he also managed to pin Aldo against the cage. Aldo is a superb counter wrestler but didn't show any of it and his work rate was way too low to blame on gassing. Bad look for Aldo, title shot for Volk should be next.

On Bellator the big ones were good. AJ Mckee shut down Pat Curran which is a good look for anybody. The smaller Pitbull (better also) KO'ed Michael Chandler on a counter and an early stoppage but 145 Pitbull has been a killer. He also looked better than Benson until an injury not long ago. Dude is slept on.

But the big one was Douglas Lima who had the highlight of the weekend, sleeping MVP Michael Venom Page. Page has been super hyped and actually looked really solid in the first round until he got taken down (and even down there he did a solid job stalling and avoiding damage). But in the second round, Page got a little too aggressive and stepped heavy and far to leap into the pocket. Lima threw a leg kick (there it is again) that knocked Page to the ground and followed the leg kick with a swooping right hook before Page could get up. It's a beautiful sequence, if you haven't seen it google it and if you're a betting man it's hard to pick anyone but Lima to win the Welterweight tournament given how bad Rory has looked his last two fights.

Others stuff - Bethe Correira is well known and did a solid job against Irene Aldana until she made a lazy shot that got her subbed. Aldana is good but needs more seasoning, Bethe is a good test fighter for prospects but her days contending are gone now that the division has depth. BJ Penn got another beating, this time from Clay Guida. He hasn't won since 2010 and has fought at UFC 37, 137 and now 237 also. It's been time to hang 'em up for a long time now and the UFC won't just let him walk to a Bellator where he might get some more reasonable competition. My boy Warrley Alves showed out in the second best fight of the night at UFC 237 (told yall) and other than those.

P.S. oh yeah formerly WWE Jack Swagger submitted an out of shape guy with a choke that he then held on to for too long. That's Jake Hager for those who care and until he faces actual professional talent, I have nothing but that the long hold on the choke was classless. He's Bellator's Greg Hardy; very athletic which is promising but being babied against super light competition. Hager's ground game isn't bad though just like Hardy's hands aren't. Not saying these two are gonna flop, but the hype trains are completely baseless right now based on name recognition from other sports.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein/Gafford

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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