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Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 250 Nunes vs Spencer: top to bottom good fights again

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC still on this weekend, really good card, no crowd 

Post#761 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 5, 2020 5:36 pm

Couldn't agree more with your assessment on Tony vs. Khabib. I really hope they make this one happen.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC still on this weekend, really good card, no crowd 

Post#762 » by Manhattan Project » Fri May 8, 2020 8:14 pm

j4remi wrote:

Great way to capture why I stan the guy. He does things that are completely unorthodox and sometimes plain reckless but there's a method to the madness. Everything, no matter how wild it looks, is done with intention. I also think the notes on his ground game illustrate the main reasons that I feel like he could give Khabib problems. He doesn't rely on the cage for stand-ups; if you hang on to a takedown attempt, he forces you off balance with chokes; and his ability to grapple with his legs should make Khabib's grapevine and wrist control combination more challenging to set up or hold.

I said it on the last podcast I posted, but I actually think Gaethje has a more troublesome skillset for Ferguson's style of fighting than Khabib. The way Khabib imposes his will run head on into Tony's counter tactics and it'll be a lot of fun finding out whose style wins out. Gaethje could be the guy to ruin that because of his combination of cardio, wrestling and power striking...On a style basis, I think Gaethje matches up better with Khabib and Tony than he does a sniping power puncher like Conor or Dustin.


Excuse me sir, can you spare me a podcast/writeup something for my betting itch.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC still on this weekend, really good card, no crowd 

Post#763 » by j4remi » Sat May 9, 2020 3:34 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:
Excuse me sir, can you spare me a podcast/writeup something for my betting itch.


:lol: I got you fam. Honestly, I held off on both due to skepticism that they could get it to the finish line and my biggest fears were realized last night. Jacare Souza, who showed up to weigh ins and all, tested positive for Coronavirus along with two of his trainers. He was one of the few fighters at the weigh in with gloves and a mask on, and he kept his 6 feet of distance from Dana rather than Hall during face off...aka they knew he had been in contact and this might happen, but still had him around. :nonono:

Anyway, the thing about them knowing is that they apparently took extra precautions. They've also conducted 4 tests per person there and FL's athletic commission seems to be cool with still having the event and just pulling Souza vs Hall. So we have some fights to discuss:

The big ones:
Ferguson vs Gaethje: The beauty of this fight is that it's the two most reckless fighters in the division. I've said before that I actually think Gaethje has a more dangerous combination of skills to fight Ferguson than Khabib does. Gaethje has an incredible chin, isn't afraid to take a hit to deliver one and hits harder than damn near anyone in the division (18 KO's in 21 victories). Tony on the other hand, is a cumulative damage fighter. He wears guys down with pace and volume. Ferguson may lack the stopping power to keep Gaethje from swinging through and finding homes for his power strikes and leg kicks.

So what do I envision? I think Tony lands more but Justin lands the bigger blows. Keep an eye out for Ferguson's body work (jabs and push kicks) while Gaethje looks to reach through and land heavier. Ferguson will take his risks by using Justin's aggression to set up elbows but that will put him in the line of fire and I do think that we'll see Gaethje land a few big ones.

When Ferguson gets hurt, and I'm guessing that'll happen at least once or twice; he usually rolls which allows him to force guys to the mat. He typically winds up on his back, fishing for a leg. Gaethje's grappling pace is wild for a 155'er though and if this happens early, he'll be the rare fighter that might be able to avoid danger and do some damage. Tony will land elbows, but this isn't a guy like Khabib who plays position first and THEN brings the hammer down. Gaethje's an All-American who will try not buy time. So it's interesting, edge to Tony as always but not his normal safe space.

So bringing this all home...I'm still edging Tony despite pointing out all of my worries here. Why? Because Gaethje gets sloppy as fights wear on. His pace is steady but he starts to lose discipline. This means that his best window to win is inside of the first two rounds. Tony is notoriously tough and if he can weather that storm, I suspect body work and cardio will help him take this. BUT...Gaethje might be the best leg kicker in mma and Tony isn't too far removed from knee problems. So it's a wild card to watch.

Cruz vs Cejudo: The rest of these'll be shorter I promise. The Cruz/Cejudo match-up is weird in that Cejudo represents all of the things Cruz typically has beaten. Cruz got famous for his rivalry with Team Alpha Male, a collection of shorter wrestlers with explosive striking. This carried over to the more technically sound but also smaller, Demetrius Johnson. Cejudo is the best wrestler Cruz will ever face, but he's still a short wrestler who explodes to strike.

The difference for Cejudo is that he explodes like a karate blitz. He can shoot a gap and land combos with crazy speed. Alphamale guys exploded for power moreso than speed (still fast though). Cejudo also has the benefit of Cody's fight tape which showed patience wins out. Cruz throws a ton of feints and angles, but he also relies on volume that means he has to force exchanges. Cody planted, waited and countered. Cejudo could try that, but he's been much better blitzing so I'm not sure he can replicate that.

I still bet Cejudo if I'm forced to though. Cruz hasn't fought in 4 years, his last fight was getting smoked by Cody. Cruz has had a ton of injuries and surgeries over the years too...7 UFC fights his entire time there. So we're seeing Cruz who was probably past his prime the last time we saw him 4 years ago. Cejudo is in his prime and fresh off facing a myriad of styles, including TJ Dillashaw who uses a lot of Cruz-like tactics. That said, if Cruz is his old self, I lean toward Cruz.

Ngannou vs Rozenstruik: This isn't as clear cut as one might think looking at the size comparison. Ngannou is a lot bigger, has fought tougher competition and looked better against their one shared opponent. Rozenstruik is more technically sound, more aggressive and can take a hit. That's the big part, Rozenstruik's aggressive and has a great chin.

If Ngannou can't put Jair down or create space, then this fight has a chance to be an upset. Francis slows down and his inexperience going deep means he can make mistakes. So it's Francis' gas tank vs Rozenstruik's toughness. I have a hard time seeing ANYBODY stand up to Ngannou's power though, so he'd be my bet by KO.

Stephens vs Kattar: Sleeper fight but it loses points after Stephens missed weight by 5 lbs. Kattar is an incredibly sharp boxer who can be elusive. Stephens is a plodding striker with monster power. So this sounds tailor made for Kattar to show out, but Stephens does have an equalizer. Jeremy Stephens leg kicks are slept on and powerful while Kattar relies big time on his in and out movement. If Stephens can slow Kattar down, no one stays on their feet when Stephens lands for power.

I think Stephens is a live bet here. But between missing weight and Kattar still growing as a fighter whenever we see him, it's risky to bet against Kattar.

Hardy vs DeCastro: I think the long and short of this one is that DeCastro has fought at under 200 pounds in the past while Hardy has to cut weight down to 265. Hardy is more athletic in every way; faster, stronger, explosive...all of it. But Hardy's got bad technique and no cardio. Yorgan in what little we've seen, is great at catching counters against bad technique. Yorgan also packs a ton of power for such a small heavyweight. That said, I think Hardy will be too big and fast to time the counter against. I wouldn't be shocked by the upset because I think Hardy looks amateurish at times, but the UFC gave Greg every advantage he could get here.

Pettis vs Cerrone: So Draftkings is throwing a 20% bonus on fight bets and my main pick was Pettis by KO (if yall ain't got accounts, lemme hit you with my link so I can catch a bonus bet :lol: ). Cerrone hasn't looked good at all in his recent fights, the caveat being two of his opponents are the guys fighting in the main event and the third was Conor Mcgregor. Pettis though has been competitive even with elite guys like Poirier and Ferguson. Pettis scored a highlight reel on Cerrone when they fought years ago as well. Cowboy is 1-2 in rematches; Pettis is 1-0.

Werdum vs Oleinik: Every time I think Aleksey Oleinik is finished, he pulls off a big submission win to stay in the mix. But Fabricio Werdum is one of the all time great grapplers at heavyweight and has never been tapped in 32 fights. Werdum is the better striker and all he has really has to do is play it smart to score a win by either KO or decision. Oleinik's chin has deteriorated for sure. But the caveat is Aleksey still has power and Werdum does some wild, reckless lunacy in damn near every fight. It's how he lost the heavyweight title to Stipe but also how he kicked Travis Browne in the face ninja style once.

Money on Werdum for me here.

Esparza vs Waterson: The best of the mid-tier strawweights here. Waterson's wrestling has grown by leaps and bounds, Esparza's striking has come around to respectability. This is more or less a fight where Esparza needs to be able to keep Karate Hottie down and that has been easier said than done throughout Waterson's career. It's a pick 'em for me with the ever so slightest edge to Waterson. I probably won't be betting on this one.

Luque vs Price: Niko Price has crazy KO power, damn near killed a man from his back once. Luque is a much sharper striker but throws technique out the window when a brawl is offered. That said, Luque is just the better fighter and already finished Niko once. The biggest thing to worry here is that Luque had 3 wars in 2019 and eventually guys need to take time to recover.

Mitchell vs Rosa: Bryce Mitchell went viral for a power tool accident and then scored a twister submission on his return. Rosa has fought some really good guys tough, but has never gotten over the hump. Rosa's a +140 right now and I get why Mitchell is favored but I also find Rosa to be one of the most tempting upset picks on the card.

Spann vs Alvey: Alvey's looked done for probably two years now. His left hand is still a killer but it's his only tool. Spann is among the most promising fighters in the division but his toughest opponent so far is Little Nog well past his expiration date for the octagon. Spann's not some green fighter though, I don't see him slipping up against someone limited like Alvey.

And one last bit of fun:
I just want to talk to yall for a second about how the main event is probably the most excited I have ever been to watch a leg kick battle. I'd like to point you toward this 5-minute clip of Yves Edwards discussing his fight with Ferguson. Edwards is an OG, the only guy Masvidal ever admitted to being nervous when he fought against...that's how much of a badass Edwards is.



Now allow me to point you toward this 5-minute highlight reel made up entirely of Justin Gaethje's leg kicks. Gaethje's leg kicks are so nice that people make highlight reels out of them.

PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#764 » by j4remi » Sat May 9, 2020 10:35 pm

https://anchor.fm/TFP%20/episodes/TFP-UFC-248-Review-with-Dane-Guerrero-from-Combat-Fitness-Club-edrclv

Recorded a preview and predictions for the fight with our guys Dane (boxing pedigree) and Jhan boom (here for laughs).
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#765 » by j4remi » Sat May 9, 2020 11:53 pm

Bryce Mitchell is better on the ground than I gave him credit for. This dude almost got a second twister about three different times, just wow!
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#766 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun May 10, 2020 1:04 am

One judge 3-0 Esparza, the other 3-0 for Waterson. WTF? :noway:
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#767 » by Manhattan Project » Sun May 10, 2020 1:07 am

j4remi wrote:Bryce Mitchell is better on the ground than I gave him credit for. This dude almost got a second twister about three different times, just wow!


Put on an absolute clinic he did, I'm not even sure how they managed two 25's he dominated that much.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#768 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun May 10, 2020 2:09 am

I thought Cowboy won that fight. It was very close.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#770 » by Manhattan Project » Sun May 10, 2020 5:19 am

Gaethje finally fought smart and composed, didn’t gas out and looked flat out dominant. Kudos to Ferguson for not going to sleep, but man Justin looks like someone whose finally putting it all together.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#771 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun May 10, 2020 5:30 am

Manhattan Project wrote:Gaethje finally fought smart and composed, didn’t gas out and looked flat out dominant. Kudos to Ferguson for not going to sleep, but man Justin looks like someone whose finally putting it all together.


I love both fighters but I never thought I'd see Tony get his ass kicked. Wow. Gaethje brought his A game.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#772 » by Manhattan Project » Sun May 10, 2020 5:38 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:Gaethje finally fought smart and composed, didn’t gas out and looked flat out dominant. Kudos to Ferguson for not going to sleep, but man Justin looks like someone whose finally putting it all together.


I love both fighters but I never thought I'd see Tony get his ass kicked. Wow. Gaethje brought his A game.


Silva, Machida, Penn etc these guys have a mystique until someone breaks it. Ferguson for almost 8 years had shown signs of being able to be beat, it just never happened. What Gaethje just did was make the Boogie Monster run for his life. Shot after shot, the left hook was art being thrown every time. Ferguson couldn't stop the leg kicks, aside from the end of the second round looked like he never stood a chance.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#773 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun May 10, 2020 5:44 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:Gaethje finally fought smart and composed, didn’t gas out and looked flat out dominant. Kudos to Ferguson for not going to sleep, but man Justin looks like someone whose finally putting it all together.


I love both fighters but I never thought I'd see Tony get his ass kicked. Wow. Gaethje brought his A game.


Silva, Machida, Penn etc these guys have a mystique until someone breaks it. Ferguson for almost 8 years had shown signs of being able to be beat, it just never happened. What Gaethje just did was make the Boogie Monster run for his life. Shot after shot, the left hook was art being thrown every time. Ferguson couldn't stop the leg kicks, aside from the end of the second round looked like he never stood a chance.


Yeah, that left hook and those kicks. But that left hook. And then the right was also finding Tony's face. It was amazing that Tony took all that punishment without going down. I thought of that scene from Raging Bull where LaMotta takes that beating from Sugar Ray Robinson and at the end of the fight he walk over to Sugar Ray with his face looking like it was put in meat grinder and says "You couldn't put me down, Ray. You couldn't knock me down."
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#774 » by blanko » Sun May 10, 2020 12:19 pm

I wonder what the post event texting will be like.
Dana must have made a killing with this event.

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#775 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 12, 2020 1:52 am

Remi, you okay? Did you take a beating in Vegas? Whatever you do, don’t jump before doing your review. :D
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#776 » by j4remi » Tue May 12, 2020 2:47 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Remi, you okay? Did you take a beating in Vegas? Whatever you do, don’t jump before doing your review. :D


I lost some house money but nothing too bad :lol: ...I intend to make it up making safer plays tomorrow and Saturday. Thank God for Ngannou and Spann helping me recoup some losses.

What an absolutely great event though...some decisions were sketchy to me (I had Waterson winning), but overall some great fights.

Price vs Luque was absolutely epic.

Gaethje beat Ferguson in a way that I'm not sure anyone else is capable of. The leg kicks and power were rhythm breaking, but I expected them to fade as the fight wore on. That didn't come close to happening and I've gotta say that I LOVED hearing the corner work with Justin. They were constantly keeping him focused and reminding him of the Poirier and Alvarez losses. Tony's corner kinda let me down, just no adjustments besides suggesting an Imanari roll after the third round. Ferguson deserves a long break before he goes back out there, he cut weight twice in a month and then took a beating but never stopped moving forward...incredible.

Ngannou should get a rematch with Stipe. I don't want to see him fight DC because I like both guys too much and also because DC's next fight is his last (according to him). Ngannou's beaten so many top 10 guys at this point in dominant fashion, he's earned a chance to redeem his loss to Stipe. I'd say redemption against Lewis too but that fight was so bad, no one wants a rematch.

Cejudo fought beautifully, but I was down on the match up and still don't really rate it much. Cruz was 4 years removed from the worst loss of his career being his last fight and this was just another ugly loss. Cruz couldn't deal with the leg kicks and couldn't bait Henry, my man loaded up that uppercut for like 10 seconds with pump fakes before he threw it and Henry countered smh. So Cejudo's legacy will include a debatable decision over Mighty Mouse; a KO over TJ Dillashaw fighting 10 lbs. below even his collegiate wrestling weight; and now Cruz 5 years too late for it to hold weight...but history will look at his run as GOAT tier stuff :nonono:

Waterson vs Esparza was weak, Carla looking for late takedowns to steal rounds while Waterson settled for risk-free fighting that cost her a close decision.

How about Calvin Kattar? Stephens came out trying to just bully his way to a win and Kattar opened up with more and more combinations that were just lovely to watch. I was worried that Kattar would get too cute with his footwork, but he sat down on his attacks and the elbow was just perfection. He'd have beaten Zabit with championship rounds too. He's the division darkhorse.

Sidenote: I still really like Spann but he squeezed his arms out and then threw a basic one-two combo with the one being more like a measuring stick than a jab all night. He almost lost because of it. I thought 20 fights into his career, that he'd adjust better but looks like he's relying on the length way too much. I'm hopeful for him to grow though, tons of potential.

And lastly: Greg Hardy doesn't belong on main cards; he hardly belongs on prelims. He's not good and I still don't trust him against actual UFC caliber HW's...nice job checking the leg kick though, even some of my favorite guys have a habit of not properly checking the kicks.

I'm having our in-house Muay Thai expert stop by the studio tomorrow (we're basically sterilizing everything down before and after recordings) to do a recap show. We've been fiending for fights! My phone has been going nuts with the fight fam all dying to discuss what all of this means. My heart breaks for the fight that wasn't though...Khabib vs Tony is never happening and we've been robbed of a special match-up on that one.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#777 » by j4remi » Tue May 12, 2020 3:50 pm

blanko wrote:I wonder what the post event texting will be like.
Dana must have made a killing with this event.

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Early returns are looking STRONG. The preliminary numbers I saw were north of 700K PPV buys and over 1 million ESPN viewers for the prelims. I think a chunk of these guys will be looking to be sure nobody from the event tests positive in the next week or two, but I could definitely picture a lot of guys blowing Dana White's phone up to get a fight. Tony and Gaethje aren't proven draws and those numbers put them looking at a top 30 range for most PPV purchases for an event.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/B Brown/Z.Smith
SF - Culver/Hood/S Brown
PF - Gallo/ Patterson/Niang
C - Gobert/Gafford/Hartenstein



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#778 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 12, 2020 8:04 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Remi, you okay? Did you take a beating in Vegas? Whatever you do, don’t jump before doing your review. :D


I lost some house money but nothing too bad :lol: ...I intend to make it up making safer plays tomorrow and Saturday. Thank God for Ngannou and Spann helping me recoup some losses.

What an absolutely great event though...some decisions were sketchy to me (I had Waterson winning), but overall some great fights.

Price vs Luque was absolutely epic.

Gaethje beat Ferguson in a way that I'm not sure anyone else is capable of. The leg kicks and power were rhythm breaking, but I expected them to fade as the fight wore on. That didn't come close to happening and I've gotta say that I LOVED hearing the corner work with Justin. They were constantly keeping him focused and reminding him of the Poirier and Alvarez losses. Tony's corner kinda let me down, just no adjustments besides suggesting an Imanari roll after the third round. Ferguson deserves a long break before he goes back out there, he cut weight twice in a month and then took a beating but never stopped moving forward...incredible.

Ngannou should get a rematch with Stipe. I don't want to see him fight DC because I like both guys too much and also because DC's next fight is his last (according to him). Ngannou's beaten so many top 10 guys at this point in dominant fashion, he's earned a chance to redeem his loss to Stipe. I'd say redemption against Lewis too but that fight was so bad, no one wants a rematch.

Cejudo fought beautifully, but I was down on the match up and still don't really rate it much. Cruz was 4 years removed from the worst loss of his career being his last fight and this was just another ugly loss. Cruz couldn't deal with the leg kicks and couldn't bait Henry, my man loaded up that uppercut for like 10 seconds with pump fakes before he threw it and Henry countered smh. So Cejudo's legacy will include a debatable decision over Mighty Mouse; a KO over TJ Dillashaw fighting 10 lbs. below even his collegiate wrestling weight; and now Cruz 5 years too late for it to hold weight...but history will look at his run as GOAT tier stuff :nonono:

Waterson vs Esparza was weak, Carla looking for late takedowns to steal rounds while Waterson settled for risk-free fighting that cost her a close decision.

How about Calvin Kattar? Stephens came out trying to just bully his way to a win and Kattar opened up with more and more combinations that were just lovely to watch. I was worried that Kattar would get too cute with his footwork, but he sat down on his attacks and the elbow was just perfection. He'd have beaten Zabit with championship rounds too. He's the division darkhorse.

Sidenote: I still really like Spann but he squeezed his arms out and then threw a basic one-two combo with the one being more like a measuring stick than a jab all night. He almost lost because of it. I thought 20 fights into his career, that he'd adjust better but looks like he's relying on the length way too much. I'm hopeful for him to grow though, tons of potential.

And lastly: Greg Hardy doesn't belong on main cards; he hardly belongs on prelims. He's not good and I still don't trust him against actual UFC caliber HW's...nice job checking the leg kick though, even some of my favorite guys have a habit of not properly checking the kicks.

I'm having our in-house Muay Thai expert stop by the studio tomorrow (we're basically sterilizing everything down before and after recordings) to do a recap show. We've been fiending for fights! My phone has been going nuts with the fight fam all dying to discuss what all of this means. My heart breaks for the fight that wasn't though...Khabib vs Tony is never happening and we've been robbed of a special match-up on that one.


Just a few points:

1. I also began to wonder about Tony's two weight cuts. I don't know much about how they can debilitate one's body. Did the first cut make it easier for Tony to stay close to that weight for the second cut? Hopefully, you can shed some light on that.

2. I also though Waterson one though it was not a easy fight to judge. But 3-0 and 0-3 just make no sense.

3. On Greg Hardy, he says that he was able to hear DC comment that he wasn't checking them and that, for some reason, gave him the heads up to correct it. Why don't they give him Ben Rothwell next? Or Stefan Struve?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#779 » by GONYK » Tue May 12, 2020 8:18 pm

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 249 happens tn, epic main event, picks and preview up 

Post#780 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 12, 2020 10:11 pm

GONYK wrote:
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Baseball contract? What's that about?

Never level perceived? By whom? Conor? :lol: I think everyone perceived Tony and his 12 fight win streak pretty "levelly."

I wonder whether Dana will make Gaethje fight Conor first in July. He could make that fight and then have the winner fight Khabib in late September/October. While I don't think that's fair to Justin, there are some good reasons to do it. (1) it's a big money fight when the UFC is trying to make money to pay its fighters and keep them training, and (2) It's a big money fight for Goethe, which don't come along that often (everyone wants a Conor fight just for that reason), and (3) I think Justin beats Conor.

On a separate note, what did you guys think of Cowboy's comeback fight against Showtime?
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