College/Draft #6 - NCAA Finals + Draft Leadup W/ Knicks In The Top Seed!!!

[Buttah304]

Ayton. I am biased though because I love throwback bigs, so I get why people would take Doncic #1. I am taking Zion over all of them though. I think Zion is the best prospect since AD

Agree than Zion is the best big man prospect since AD (probably overall as well). But I’m trying to think of the last wing player that was as dynamic as Luka. His IQ and talent is off the charts.

Are you ignoring his defense tho?

Fair point. While I don’t believe Luka will ever be a + defender I think he can eventually defend his position being average.

[Worst_to_First]

Zion easily cause I still would not take Doncic #1 last year

Who are you drafting over Doncic from last year? He seems like one of the best draft selections in recent memory.

Ayton. I am biased though because I love throwback bigs, so I get why people would take Doncic #1. I am taking Zion over all of them though. I think Zion is the best prospect since AD

Ayton could have used a solid PG. Rubio was a huge factor in Towns’ development.

Part of me hopes that the Suns land Ja Morant in the draft.

[3toheadmelo]

Who are you drafting over Doncic from last year? He seems like one of the best draft selections in recent memory.

Ayton. I am biased though because I love throwback bigs, so I get why people would take Doncic #1. I am taking Zion over all of them though. I think Zion is the best prospect since AD

Ayton could have used a solid PG. Rubio was a huge factor in Towns’ development.

Part of me hopes that the Suns land Ja Morant in the draft.

yeah i hope they get Ja too. Ayton would've averaged 20+ PPG this season if he had a decent point guard for sure.

while they get Ja, I hope we get Zion

[god shammgod]

ayton, ja & booker. mikal better strap in because he's gonna have to d up all 5 spots. lol

[Worst_to_First]

ayton, ja & booker. mikal better strap in because he's gonna have to d up all 5 spots. lol

Suns should consider making a trade for Mike Conley if they fall out of the Top 2.

[robillionaire]

In a redraft I'm taking Mitchell Robinson over Ayton. Don't @ me

[knickstape21]

In a redraft I'm taking Mitchell Robinson over Ayton. Don't @ me

Same. Overall impact is greater and I feel like Ayton is definitely a good player, but a total empty stats type of guy. No real presence defensively.

[awy]

ayton’s defensive motor just isnt consistent. even if he has decent at rim% numbers, he does not deter shots in the paint.

mitch still has so much room to improve on defense, but he does deter teams from ever going to the rim.

ayton stans mostly cite imcomplete numbers to defend him but motor is really hard to see improving from his low level.

[3toheadmelo]

ayton’s defensive motor just isnt consistent. even if he has decent at rim% numbers, he does not deter shots in the paint.

mitch still has so much room to improve on defense, but he does deter teams from ever going to the rim.

ayton stans mostly cite imcomplete numbers to defend him but motor is really hard to see improving from his low level.

Hard to see improving? everyone who has followed the suns knows that he has improved vastly defensively throughout the season. Motor included. Not sure if serious.

[awy]

ayton’s defensive motor just isnt consistent. even if he has decent at rim% numbers, he does not deter shots in the paint.

mitch still has so much room to improve on defense, but he does deter teams from ever going to the rim.

ayton stans mostly cite imcomplete numbers to defend him but motor is really hard to see improving from his low level.

Hard to see improving? everyone who has followed the suns knows that he has improved vastly defensively throughout the season. Motor included. Not sure if serious.

yea instead of standing around 95% of the time he’s only standing around 50% of the time

[3toheadmelo]

ayton’s defensive motor just isnt consistent. even if he has decent at rim% numbers, he does not deter shots in the paint.

mitch still has so much room to improve on defense, but he does deter teams from ever going to the rim.

ayton stans mostly cite imcomplete numbers to defend him but motor is really hard to see improving from his low level.

Hard to see improving? everyone who has followed the suns knows that he has improved vastly defensively throughout the season. Motor included. Not sure if serious.

yea instead of standing around 95% of the time he’s only standing around 50% of the time

So you admitting you have not followed the suns this season. Good to know. Because what you described is how he played in October. Now I see why you think he never improved

[awy]

Hard to see improving? everyone who has followed the suns knows that he has improved vastly defensively throughout the season. Motor included. Not sure if serious.

yea instead of standing around 95% of the time he’s only standing around 50% of the time

So you admitting you have not followed the suns this season. Good to know. Because what you described is how he played in October. Now I see why you think he never improved

i know he has improved but it’s still sporatic. he’s had good 1 on 1 games vs giannis/lebron because of his size and speed are great, but the suns are still very bad with him on the court defensively.

i’ll dig more into it later

[3toheadmelo]

yea instead of standing around 95% of the time he’s only standing around 50% of the time

So you admitting you have not followed the suns this season. Good to know. Because what you described is how he played in October. Now I see why you think he never improved

i know he has improved but it’s still sporatic. he’s had good 1 on 1 games vs giannis/lebron because of his size and speed are great, but the suns are still very bad with him on the court defensively.

i’ll dig more into it later

It’s not sporadic. There has been consistent improvement throughout the season.

Read on Twitter

Suns are a bad defensive team with him or without him so that point is moot. If it was the opposite then the Suns would’ve went on a big winning streak to end the season when Ayton was out with an injury. Nobody is saying Ayton is a great defender but he has shown enough improvement to where you can project him to be an above average defensive anchor in the future. I am not sure why you compared him to Mitch in your previous post when no one thinks he is on the same level as him defensively either. Mitch is a legendary shot blocker/defender in the making while Ayton is not. Ayton is miles ahead on offense tho. That’s the difference between them two. Hoping we get James Wiseman next year since he basically has some traits of Ayton and Mitch together. Wiseman and Mitch is a scary front court

[Knicksfan1992]

Hero staying in:

Read on Twitter

Kinda of a rude tweet the way he worded it. Coulda said some nicer things about the school and his time there.

That said, would still love to have him here.

--Mags

I like Herro a lot too Mags. Potential to be a great shooter with legit wing size. Showed some playmaking chops in high school. Would take a flier in the mid first round if I was a playoff team looking to get some depth with decent upside.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Agree than Zion is the best big man prospect since AD (probably overall as well). But I’m trying to think of the last wing player that was as dynamic as Luka. His IQ and talent is off the charts.

Are you ignoring his defense tho?

Fair point. While I don’t believe Luka will ever be a + defender I think he can eventually defend his position being average.

luka doesn't seem to care about that end of the ball. and his conditioning seems to limit him only to energy exertion on offense, which he enjoys due to his immense talent. i am a fan, but that has always been my area of concern with his game.

[robillionaire]

So you admitting you have not followed the suns this season. Good to know. Because what you described is how he played in October. Now I see why you think he never improved

i know he has improved but it’s still sporatic. he’s had good 1 on 1 games vs giannis/lebron because of his size and speed are great, but the suns are still very bad with him on the court defensively.

i’ll dig more into it later

It’s not sporadic. There has been consistent improvement throughout the season.

Read on Twitter

Suns are a bad defensive team with him or without him so that point is moot. If it was the opposite then the Suns would’ve went on a big winning streak to end the season when Ayton was out with an injury. Nobody is saying Ayton is a great defender but he has shown enough improvement to where you can project him to be an above average defensive anchor in the future. I am not sure why you compared him to Mitch in your previous post when no one thinks he is on the same level as him defensively either. Mitch is a legendary shot blocker/defender in the making while Ayton is not. Ayton is miles ahead on offense tho. That’s the difference between them two. Hoping we get James Wiseman next year since he basically has some traits of Ayton and Mitch together. Wiseman and Mitch is a scary front court

for reference this season Enes Kanter, widely known for being one of the worst defensive centers in the nba held opponents to 64.1% FG percentage less than 5 feet and Ayton held opponents to 65% he's literally worse at defending the rim than Enes Kanter. His improvement is not nearly convincing enough to say he's going to be "an above average defensive anchor" even the few players who allowed a higher than 65% had much smaller sample sizes than Ayton, you could easily say out of players who played significant minutes he was the worst rim protector in the entire NBA this season. I mean it's nice he improved from really really bad to just really bad but nothing about that screams above average defensive anchor

[awy]

So you admitting you have not followed the suns this season. Good to know. Because what you described is how he played in October. Now I see why you think he never improved

i know he has improved but it’s still sporatic. he’s had good 1 on 1 games vs giannis/lebron because of his size and speed are great, but the suns are still very bad with him on the court defensively.

i’ll dig more into it later

It’s not sporadic. There has been consistent improvement throughout the season.

Read on Twitter

Suns are a bad defensive team with him or without him so that point is moot. If it was the opposite then the Suns would’ve went on a big winning streak to end the season when Ayton was out with an injury. Nobody is saying Ayton is a great defender but he has shown enough improvement to where you can project him to be an above average defensive anchor in the future. I am not sure why you compared him to Mitch in your previous post when no one thinks he is on the same level as him defensively either. Mitch is a legendary shot blocker/defender in the making while Ayton is not. Ayton is miles ahead on offense tho. That’s the difference between them two. Hoping we get James Wiseman next year since he basically has some traits of Ayton and Mitch together. Wiseman and Mitch is a scary front court

as i said the problem i have with ayton is deterrence and not just the ability to effectively contest when he gets in position. he often does not get in position to contest. it would be great if his motor is higher or he reacts faster to deter more shots at the rim, but on the season the suns give up the most paint points per game in the league, and the month splits:

dec: 23rd
jan: 20th
feb: 29th
march: 28th


now that i looked at the numbers a bit it's pretty concerning that he's not raising the suns' rebounding rate. suns are bottom of the league in rebound% for basically every month. that doesn't make ayton look good either on another motor dependent aspect of defense.

the comparison with mitch is basically a general take on the role of bigs in the nba. offense from big men that takes up time is not that scalable. you really just want lob finisher or spacing threat unless the guy has elite handle and passing abilities to become an offensive hub. the post or near-post offense stuff is just going to be limited, and unless there's a lot of passing acumen does not contribute to raising a team's level of offense.

[3toheadmelo]

i know he has improved but it’s still sporatic. he’s had good 1 on 1 games vs giannis/lebron because of his size and speed are great, but the suns are still very bad with him on the court defensively.

i’ll dig more into it later

It’s not sporadic. There has been consistent improvement throughout the season.

Read on Twitter

Suns are a bad defensive team with him or without him so that point is moot. If it was the opposite then the Suns would’ve went on a big winning streak to end the season when Ayton was out with an injury. Nobody is saying Ayton is a great defender but he has shown enough improvement to where you can project him to be an above average defensive anchor in the future. I am not sure why you compared him to Mitch in your previous post when no one thinks he is on the same level as him defensively either. Mitch is a legendary shot blocker/defender in the making while Ayton is not. Ayton is miles ahead on offense tho. That’s the difference between them two. Hoping we get James Wiseman next year since he basically has some traits of Ayton and Mitch together. Wiseman and Mitch is a scary front court

for reference this season Enes Kanter, widely known for being one of the worst defensive centers in the nba held opponents to 64.1% FG percentage less than 5 feet and Ayton held opponents to 65% he's literally worse at defending the rim than Enes Kanter. His improvement is not nearly convincing enough to say he's going to be "an above average defensive anchor" even the few players who allowed a higher than 65% had much smaller sample sizes than Ayton, you could easily say out of players who played significant minutes he was the worst rim protector in the entire NBA this season. I mean it's nice he improved from really really bad to just really bad but nothing about that screams above average defensive anchor

It’s bad because he started the reason terribly. That was the point of me providing that stat.

And here’s more evidence that he’s not terrible as you say he is.

Read on Twitter

[Orange Mamba]

watching Lillard makes me interested in Garland if worst-case scenario we end up at 4-5

[3toheadmelo]

i know he has improved but it’s still sporatic. he’s had good 1 on 1 games vs giannis/lebron because of his size and speed are great, but the suns are still very bad with him on the court defensively.

i’ll dig more into it later

It’s not sporadic. There has been consistent improvement throughout the season.

Read on Twitter

Suns are a bad defensive team with him or without him so that point is moot. If it was the opposite then the Suns would’ve went on a big winning streak to end the season when Ayton was out with an injury. Nobody is saying Ayton is a great defender but he has shown enough improvement to where you can project him to be an above average defensive anchor in the future. I am not sure why you compared him to Mitch in your previous post when no one thinks he is on the same level as him defensively either. Mitch is a legendary shot blocker/defender in the making while Ayton is not. Ayton is miles ahead on offense tho. That’s the difference between them two. Hoping we get James Wiseman next year since he basically has some traits of Ayton and Mitch together. Wiseman and Mitch is a scary front court

as i said the problem i have with ayton is deterrence and not just the ability to effectively contest when he gets in position. he often does not get in position to contest. it would be great if his motor is higher or he reacts faster to deter more shots at the rim, but on the season the suns give up the most paint points per game in the league, and the month splits:

dec: 23rd
jan: 20th
feb: 29th
march: 28th


now that i looked at the numbers a bit it's pretty concerning that he's not raising the suns' rebounding rate. suns are bottom of the league in rebound% for basically every month. that doesn't make ayton look good either on another motor dependent aspect of defense.

the comparison with mitch is basically a general take on the role of bigs in the nba. offense from big men that takes up time is not that scalable. you really just want lob finisher or spacing threat unless the guy has elite handle and passing abilities to become an offensive hub. the post or near-post offense stuff is just going to be limited, and unless there's a lot of passing acumen does not contribute to raising a team's level of offense.

Putting all of the blame on Ayton for the Suns allowing those points in the paint makes no sense when they have terrible perimeter defense. It goes both ways.

Ayton is like the only guy who can rebound on the Suns so I’m not sure why you’re blaming him for the rebounding rate being bad. Dude averaged 10 rebounds out the gate, how is that bad first time I’ve heard about rebounding rate being used as an argument for bad motor also.