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Plan full rebuild

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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#121 » by Billy Goat » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:02 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
just add RJ to the young group of dsj knox mitch trier, frank if the knicks don't get rid of him, and see who sticks, if it's possible to use the cap space to take on an expiring contract to get another pick I'd also do that


Would not draft RJ at 3.


Ok. Well this time next week he'll be on the roster so we won't have to speculate about it anymore. Let's revisit this next friday


Taking Barrett is a Knicks move. That's for sure.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#122 » by dakomish23 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:10 pm

If you’re finally embracing this (they haven’t yet), do it for real.

Play the kids (all of them), live with the results
Assets acquisition
Lottery tickets (this we already do)
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#123 » by robillionaire » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:14 pm

dakomish23 wrote:If you’re finally embracing this (they haven’t yet), do it for real.

Play the kids (all of them), live with the results
Assets acquisition
Lottery tickets (this we already do)


they did all three of those things last year more or less
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#124 » by Cookies4Life » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:18 pm

dakomish23 wrote:If you’re finally embracing this (they haven’t yet), do it for real.

Play the kids (all of them), live with the results
Assets acquisition
Lottery tickets (this we already do)


They could fully embrace the rebuild and still ascertain max level guys this summer. Where I started getting annoyed was the idea that we should trade the farm to get a 3rd player here. Makes no sense.

Not to harp on the Melo trade but if he wasn't hellbent on leaving Denver before his contract ran out, we could've acquired him and kept all our young talent (specifically Chandler, Gallo and our picks.) That team could've been very competitive for a long time.

Obviously AD is a better talent than Anthony but I never wanted to dump our young kids and multiple picks for him. We'd be selling so low on all our young guys; aside from Mitch none of them have great value just yet. Let them play through their mistakes next year and see whose games are evolving. I still want DSJ and Frank here for at least another year.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#125 » by dakomish23 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:19 pm

robillionaire wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:If you’re finally embracing this (they haven’t yet), do it for real.

Play the kids (all of them), live with the results
Assets acquisition
Lottery tickets (this we already do)


they did all three of those things last year more or less


No they didn’t.

They liquidated their best young prospect to get assets. They didn’t take on bad salary to get assets.

They didn’t play all the kids. They even gave our kids DNP CDS.

Lottery tickets they did and I’ve always given credit to Perry for that one small step.




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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#126 » by dakomish23 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:22 pm

Cookies4Life wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:If you’re finally embracing this (they haven’t yet), do it for real.

Play the kids (all of them), live with the results
Assets acquisition
Lottery tickets (this we already do)


They could fully embrace the rebuild and still ascertain max level guys this summer. Where I started getting annoyed was the idea that we should trade the farm to get a 3rd player here. Makes no sense.

Not to harp on the Melo trade but if he wasn't hellbent on leaving Denver before his contract ran out, we could've acquired him and kept all our young talent (specifically Chandler, Gallo and our picks.) That team could've been very competitive for a long time.

Obviously AD is a better talent than Anthony but I never wanted to dump our young kids and multiple picks for him. We'd be selling so low on all your young guys; aside from Mitch none of them have great value just yet. Let them play through their mistakes next year and see whose games are evolving. I still want DSJ and Frank here for at least another year.


Blame the FO for the decisions of the FO. No opposing team player is making the decision - the FO is making the decision.

I was fine with signing AD outright when we had KP. I was fine with not trading for him if we got Zion.

I only want him if we landed a top stud. If we get Kawhi hell yeah I want to trade for another top 5 player b




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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#127 » by robillionaire » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:26 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:If you’re finally embracing this (they haven’t yet), do it for real.

Play the kids (all of them), live with the results
Assets acquisition
Lottery tickets (this we already do)


they did all three of those things last year more or less


No they didn’t.

They liquidated their best young prospect to get assets. They didn’t take on bad salary to get assets.

They didn’t play all the kids. They even gave our kids DNP CDS.

Lottery tickets they did and I’ve always given credit to Perry for that one small step.


They played the kids a ton. They could have played them a little more, sure, but they definitely played them, and they lived with the results of being the worst team in the nba. They got rid of all the vets on the team. If this is because they didn't play frank enough or someone else as much as you'd have liked I'm sorry but the kids played last year

You didn't specify how they had to get the assets, you said "assets acquisition" and however they did it we now have multiple future first rounders that we didn't have before last season

Maybe they didn't do it exactly how you'd have liked but I feel they definitely made significant progress in these areas unlike at any other point in the past that I can remember
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#128 » by dakomish23 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:34 pm

robillionaire wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
they did all three of those things last year more or less


No they didn’t.

They liquidated their best young prospect to get assets. They didn’t take on bad salary to get assets.

They didn’t play all the kids. They even gave our kids DNP CDS.

Lottery tickets they did and I’ve always given credit to Perry for that one small step.


They played the kids a ton. They could have played them a little more, sure, but they definitely played them, and they definitely lived with the results of being the worst team in the nba. They got rid of all the vets on the team. If this is because they didn't play frank enough or someone else as much as you'd have liked I'm sorry but the kids played last year

You didn't specify how they had to get the assets, you said "assets acquisition" and however they did it we now have multiple future first rounders that we didn't have before last season

Maybe they didn't do it exactly how you'd have liked but I feel they definitely made significant progress in these areas unlike at any other point in the past that I can remember


I didn’t think I had to specify the asset acquisition part.
But I will specify it now. Asset acquisition / prospect acquisition via salary dumps. Liquidating Mitch to get some firsts wouldn’t count.

They were better. They can still take it up a few notches, which I hope will be the case if they go full rebuild.




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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#129 » by robillionaire » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:37 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
No they didn’t.

They liquidated their best young prospect to get assets. They didn’t take on bad salary to get assets.

They didn’t play all the kids. They even gave our kids DNP CDS.

Lottery tickets they did and I’ve always given credit to Perry for that one small step.


They played the kids a ton. They could have played them a little more, sure, but they definitely played them, and they definitely lived with the results of being the worst team in the nba. They got rid of all the vets on the team. If this is because they didn't play frank enough or someone else as much as you'd have liked I'm sorry but the kids played last year

You didn't specify how they had to get the assets, you said "assets acquisition" and however they did it we now have multiple future first rounders that we didn't have before last season

Maybe they didn't do it exactly how you'd have liked but I feel they definitely made significant progress in these areas unlike at any other point in the past that I can remember


I didn’t think I had to specify the asset acquisition part.
But I will specify it now. Asset acquisition / prospect acquisition via salary dumps. Liquidating Mitch to get some firsts wouldn’t count.

They were better. They can still take it up a few notches, which I hope will be the case if they go full rebuild.


Yeah I agree, personally I think there is a good chance that they will acquire even more assets via salary dumps this summer or during next season. This is really their first real opportunity to do so because this is the first offseason we have had real cap space so I don't really criticize them for not having done it just yet. I think what you're asking for is likely going to happen
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#130 » by blueNorange » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:33 pm

i'm ready to throw it all away, lets not make the same mistake over and over again.

roll with team youth.

robinson
barrett
knox
dotson
dsj
---
trier

get a top pick next year.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#131 » by shtolky » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:36 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Would not draft RJ at 3.


Ok. Well this time next week he'll be on the roster so we won't have to speculate about it anymore. Let's revisit this next friday


Taking Barrett is a Knicks move. That's for sure.



How is taking the consensus 3rd best prospect with the 3rd pick a Knicks move?
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#132 » by Papi_swav » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Just keep drafting well and let the youngsters develop. Trade with teams that will give up their 1st round pick for cap space, teams like OKC and Portland etc.. to acquire more picks. Trade for some young guys around the league that haven't got playing time to develop, like what the Knicks did with Dinwiddie, Harris etc.. Whatever you do , just don't blow the cap space on mediocre players.

Knicks have a pretty nice young group there. Knox, Ntilikina, DSJ have to get it together and show up. Dotson and Trier are kind of the same player that will give you a spark off the bench. Robinson looks like a starting center and I would try to lock him up soon. Get another top pick next year and if a star level player becomes available then package some young guys plus picks for him. Maybe Beal or CJ McCollum becomes available.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#133 » by Slamm Goodbody » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:43 pm

Oh great, I see we've come full circle on Planet Moron and Knicks fans are complaining about the gift at the third pick which is RJ Barrett, the just-turned 19 year old (happy birthday bro) who was consensus #1 overall before Zion burst onto the scene and lead the ACC in scoring.

Do not trade this pick, do not look past this kid. For once the NBA made it easy for us not to screw it up - make the common sense move and let's keep on with a proper rebuild. Don't prove the media right that we didn't have the stomach to do this the right way for once.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#134 » by EricAnderson » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:37 pm

I only want the top guys (Durant Kawhi or AD) I’m not for sigining the second tier guys.

If we don’t get the top guys im all for tanking. It’s just that we need a few more years worth of high picks to have anything substantial. We don’t have much to currently work with
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#135 » by VCBC » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:37 pm

Papi_swav wrote:Just keep drafting well and let the youngsters develop. Trade with teams that will give up their 1st round pick for cap space, teams like OKC and Portland etc.. to acquire more picks. Trade for some young guys around the league that haven't got playing time to develop, like what the Knicks did with Dinwiddie, Harris etc.. Whatever you do , just don't blow the cap space on mediocre players.

Knicks have a pretty nice young group there. Knox, Ntilikina, DSJ have to get it together and show up. Dotson and Trier are kind of the same player that will give you a spark off the bench. Robinson looks like a starting center and I would try to lock him up soon. Get another top pick next year and if a star level player becomes available then package some young guys plus picks for him. Maybe Beal or CJ McCollum becomes available.

Why do so many posters keep stating this idea of keeping cap flexibility while acquiring assets? Knicks only get assets through taking on bad multi year deals but of course thanks to KD and Klay injuries, the market on cap space just took a nose dive.

Literally, the worst possible scenario just played out over the past week for this summer. Knicks will be forced to sign an injured player, an unworthy max player or be stuck trotting out the same roster with few ways to improve it except for "tanking".

Over 40% of the league is a FA this summer, there's plenty of cap space so toss that strategy right out the window.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#136 » by Papi_swav » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:07 pm

VCBC wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:Just keep drafting well and let the youngsters develop. Trade with teams that will give up their 1st round pick for cap space, teams like OKC and Portland etc.. to acquire more picks. Trade for some young guys around the league that haven't got playing time to develop, like what the Knicks did with Dinwiddie, Harris etc.. Whatever you do , just don't blow the cap space on mediocre players.

Knicks have a pretty nice young group there. Knox, Ntilikina, DSJ have to get it together and show up. Dotson and Trier are kind of the same player that will give you a spark off the bench. Robinson looks like a starting center and I would try to lock him up soon. Get another top pick next year and if a star level player becomes available then package some young guys plus picks for him. Maybe Beal or CJ McCollum becomes available.

Why do so many posters keep stating this idea of keeping cap flexibility while acquiring assets? Knicks only get assets through taking on bad multi year deals but of course thanks to KD and Klay injuries, the market on cap space just took a nose dive.

Literally, the worst possible scenario just played out over the past week for this summer. Knicks will be forced to sign an injured player, an unworthy max player or be stuck trotting out the same roster with few ways to improve it except for "tanking".

Over 40% of the league is a FA this summer, there's plenty of cap space so toss that strategy right out the window.

Lol I mean if you want to be stuck in mediocrity then knock yourselves out. Stars win in this league and if you're not getting the top guys then why would you waste it on guys like Middleton and Vucevic? Would you personally max out Middleton ? Just stick to the rebuild, acquire assets and let the young guys develop so when a star level player becomes available via trade then package all them assets for that guy. This is why Knicks are not getting AD, they don't have the assets for him.

Look at the Nets for example, they got good enough assets that stars actually want to come play with them. Warriors are another example, drafted Steph and Klay in the lottery then drafted Dray in the 2nd, then signed KD because he wanted to join a great team. It's the only way to go bro. You want to build a dynasty , not just a playoff team.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#137 » by spree8 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:25 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
spree8 wrote:I pray we just go all in on the rebuild. I’m good on the damaged goods shyt in a contract year... McDyess, Amare, KP. Rather take the loss on the chin and keep it movin. I love KD but it’s common sense.


You have to draft well and make shrewd signings to "rebuild." If the Knicks strike out in FA (likely) why even continue with this? This is currently a bottom 3 roster at best, with no building blocks and no real cohesion. It's a mid 2000's Knicks kind of roster built around shooting without a purpose.

There needs to be changes if Durant and another star dont come because we're wasting our time. Bottoming out for the first pick doesnt work anymore.


just add RJ to the young group of dsj knox mitch trier, frank if the knicks don't get rid of him, and see who sticks, if it's possible to use the cap space to take on an expiring contract to get another pick I'd also do that



Yea at this point I hope Perry is looking more into being a team that’s willing to help facilitate a trade for AD or another big star as a 3rd team who can take on unwanted contracts for picks. Maybe if Boston wanted to dump Hayward while bringing in AD, we could take him for 1 or 2 first rounders this draft.

Tatum to Pels
AD to Boston
Hayward and #14 (or #20 & #22) to us

Possible if Boston wanted to have more room to maybe sign another top FA like Kemba or Butler, or someone else. Kemba, AD, Horford, and Jaylen traded elsewhere for another player... like Beal or someone.

Who knows... there’s a million possibilities. But adding another top 8-10 pick next year, RJ this year, and using cap space to gain more picks is def on the right track.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#138 » by VCBC » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:31 pm

Papi_swav wrote:
VCBC wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:Just keep drafting well and let the youngsters develop. Trade with teams that will give up their 1st round pick for cap space, teams like OKC and Portland etc.. to acquire more picks. Trade for some young guys around the league that haven't got playing time to develop, like what the Knicks did with Dinwiddie, Harris etc.. Whatever you do , just don't blow the cap space on mediocre players.

Knicks have a pretty nice young group there. Knox, Ntilikina, DSJ have to get it together and show up. Dotson and Trier are kind of the same player that will give you a spark off the bench. Robinson looks like a starting center and I would try to lock him up soon. Get another top pick next year and if a star level player becomes available then package some young guys plus picks for him. Maybe Beal or CJ McCollum becomes available.

Why do so many posters keep stating this idea of keeping cap flexibility while acquiring assets? Knicks only get assets through taking on bad multi year deals but of course thanks to KD and Klay injuries, the market on cap space just took a nose dive.

Literally, the worst possible scenario just played out over the past week for this summer. Knicks will be forced to sign an injured player, an unworthy max player or be stuck trotting out the same roster with few ways to improve it except for "tanking".

Over 40% of the league is a FA this summer, there's plenty of cap space so toss that strategy right out the window.

Lol I mean if you want to be stuck in mediocrity then knock yourselves out. Stars win in this league and if you're not getting the top guys then why would you waste it on guys like Middleton and Vucevic? Would you personally max out Middleton ? Just stick to the rebuild, acquire assets and let the young guys develop so when a star level player becomes available via trade then package all them assets for that guy. This is why Knicks are not getting AD, they don't have the assets for him.

Look at the Nets for example, they got good enough assets that stars actually want to come play with them. Warriors are another example, drafted Steph and Klay in the lottery then drafted Dray in the 2nd, then signed KD because he wanted to join a great team. It's the only way to go bro. You want to build a dynasty , not just a playoff team.
Unsure if you misread or misquoted but my OP was about using cap space for assets and how it won't work.

Regardless, let's not compare the Nets or Dubs to the Knicks. Dubs & Nets have great FOs who are great evaluators and developers of talent, the Knicks have Perry who sucks at drafting.

Irony is that everyone wants a rebuild when the GM leading that rebuild is a bad evaluator of talent.

Unless Kawhi comes, it's going to be terrible next year and beyond. Perry will get canned after 2 more seasons of top 5 busts and the biggest problem Mills, will still be around because Dolan won't sell.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#139 » by Papi_swav » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:49 am

VCBC wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:
VCBC wrote:Why do so many posters keep stating this idea of keeping cap flexibility while acquiring assets? Knicks only get assets through taking on bad multi year deals but of course thanks to KD and Klay injuries, the market on cap space just took a nose dive.

Literally, the worst possible scenario just played out over the past week for this summer. Knicks will be forced to sign an injured player, an unworthy max player or be stuck trotting out the same roster with few ways to improve it except for "tanking".

Over 40% of the league is a FA this summer, there's plenty of cap space so toss that strategy right out the window.

Lol I mean if you want to be stuck in mediocrity then knock yourselves out. Stars win in this league and if you're not getting the top guys then why would you waste it on guys like Middleton and Vucevic? Would you personally max out Middleton ? Just stick to the rebuild, acquire assets and let the young guys develop so when a star level player becomes available via trade then package all them assets for that guy. This is why Knicks are not getting AD, they don't have the assets for him.

Look at the Nets for example, they got good enough assets that stars actually want to come play with them. Warriors are another example, drafted Steph and Klay in the lottery then drafted Dray in the 2nd, then signed KD because he wanted to join a great team. It's the only way to go bro. You want to build a dynasty , not just a playoff team.
Unsure if you misread or misquoted but my OP was about using cap space for assets and how it won't work.

Regardless, let's not compare the Nets or Dubs to the Knicks. Dubs & Nets have great FOs who are great evaluators and developers of talent, the Knicks have Perry who sucks at drafting.

Irony is that everyone wants a rebuild when the GM leading that rebuild is a bad evaluator of talent.

Unless Kawhi comes, it's going to be terrible next year and beyond. Perry will get canned after 2 more seasons of top 5 busts and the biggest problem Mills, will still be around because Dolan won't sell.

Man that sucks, sounds like the Knicks should be the ones to give Ujiri 10M a year. So how else do you think Knicks should spend the cap space? it wouldn't make sense to spend top dollar if they aren't getting the top stars.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#140 » by DrCoach » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:10 am

Nazrmohamed wrote:
DrCoach wrote:C-Mitch/Kornet
Pf-Vonleh/Hezonja
Sf-Knox/Dotson
Sg-RJ/Trier
Pg-DSJr/Mudiay

Ellenson

#55- pick,


I'm just curious why the love for Vonleh but not Herzonia under this scenario. Neither are hot commodities so I don't expect to have to pay anything significant, maybe 15 mil between both of them. But I feel like Vonleh was hot the first half and then fell off a cliff and for Herz he did nothing and then finished strong. Is it possible to resign them to 1yr deals again, cuz if so then maybe I would raise my price.

I'd be interested though in signing a veteran C again to work with Robinson. Maybe overpay a little on a 1yr mentor deal for Tyson Chandler. I'd also not mind throwing in a high Iq vet like a Jared Dudley to get in our wings ear and help with development. Again maybe overspend a little on a 1yr deal. Make it lucrative for them but short term for us.

But then maybe do what the Hawks just did where we absorb a contract for future draft pick or couple of second rounders.



Added Hezonja
Agreed, I’d sign a couple of Vets

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