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Plan full rebuild

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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#61 » by br7knicks » Tue May 21, 2019 12:06 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:I wouldn’t mind signing and slightly overpaying for role players who play the right way on both sides of the floor if we strike out in free agency (with the big name free agents). I’m against trading our picks and young players but I believe surrounding them with the right players and putting them in a position to compete every night will help their development, especially now with the flattened lottery odds. I personally don’t believe in Frank and Knox, but DSJ, Mitch and this year’s top 3 pick at the very least need to be put in a position to succeed with the right veteran players around them.

Also, trading down would be a major mistake in my opinion, unless Mills and Perry really believe the BEST player available is projected to be drafted lower in the lottery. But we can’t hedge our bets simply because we don’t trust our ability to pick the right player.


most people don't get this ^^^^^

they think you should just pay any decent player max contracts, and wins will come. i'm pretty sure we've learned that that **** doesn't happen.

not every position needs to have a superstar at it, and you actually need role players. look at philly. there's no reason they shouldn't have made it to the finals. they had so much firepower, in their starters. and had the wrong players not playing to their strengths.


some are so dumb, i don't get it.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#62 » by EricAnderson » Thu May 23, 2019 5:52 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:I wouldn’t mind signing and slightly overpaying for role players who play the right way on both sides of the floor if we strike out in free agency (with the big name free agents). I’m against trading our picks and young players but I believe surrounding them with the right players and putting them in a position to compete every night will help their development, especially now with the flattened lottery odds. I personally don’t believe in Frank and Knox, but DSJ, Mitch and this year’s top 3 pick at the very least need to be put in a position to succeed with the right veteran players around them.

Also, trading down would be a major mistake in my opinion, unless Mills and Perry really believe the BEST player available is projected to be drafted lower in the lottery. But we can’t hedge our bets simply because we don’t trust our ability to pick the right player.


most people don't get this ^^^^^

they think you should just pay any decent player max contracts, and wins will come. i'm pretty sure we've learned that that **** doesn't happen.

not every position needs to have a superstar at it, and you actually need role players. look at philly. there's no reason they shouldn't have made it to the finals. they had so much firepower, in their starters. and had the wrong players not playing to their strengths.


some are so dumb, i don't get it.


Who said to pay any decent player max money? I think the majority of fans are on board that unless it’s a Kd and a Kyrie coming don’t give max money to the Kembas or Jimmy Butlers of the world

As for the Sixers they still have a great young core to build around who have a decade of their prime left legs not act like they’re whole plan is a failure already.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#63 » by SmoothLefty21 » Thu May 23, 2019 6:18 pm

I don't want to tank but I sure as hell don't want to be a treadmill team. Even with the new lottery odds, it's far better to tank than to be a treadmill team. The NBA draft isn't an exact science; there are tons of busts in the top three and always players to be found in the middle and late lottery. I'm fine with playing the kids a ton and if we get a 5-7th pick then so be it. It's not a waste of a season if we're bad and don't get a top three pick. Better that than spending money this summer to build a team that has a ceiling of a 1st round exit. No thanks.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#64 » by Clyde_Style » Thu May 23, 2019 6:28 pm

SmoothLefty21 wrote:I don't want to tank but I sure as hell don't want to be a treadmill team. Even with the new lottery odds, it's far better to tank than to be a treadmill team. The NBA draft isn't an exact science; there are tons of busts in the top three and always players to be found in the middle and late lottery. I'm fine with playing the kids a ton and if we get a 5-7th pick then so be it. It's not a waste of a season if we're bad and don't get a top three pick. Better that than spending money this summer to build a team that has a ceiling of a 1st round exit. No thanks.


Having all that cap space will derange some minds into thinking money can buy them love (or at least a ring). Even when you spend it all you can't shortcut everything that goes with filling out a roster. Nobody goes to the finals and wins without some depth. I know Lebron carried some Cleveland squads to the finals, but even then there were role players in place who knew how to do their jobs. It seems pretty common to see someone post that this or that kind of player is a dime a dozen and we can pick up what we need on the cheap. If that were true then most clubs would be fairly deep with high functioning players from 5-9, but that is not the case. Patience should be a virtue now ESPECIALLY when you have cleared cap space. Too easy to spend yourself into a hole that takes another five years to dig out of.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#65 » by dakomish23 » Thu May 23, 2019 9:39 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:Dont think i can endure another tank year.

Especially with the new lotto system.

I just cant.


If we won, what would have been your stance?
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#66 » by TheGreenArrow » Thu May 23, 2019 10:09 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:Dont think i can endure another tank year.

Especially with the new lotto system.

I just cant.


If we won, what would have been your stance?


Same thing, just seeing those teams in the 6-10 range jump up so easily makes me weary.

Its a total crapshoot now.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#67 » by nedleeds » Thu May 23, 2019 10:15 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:idk....Knox and Frank look somewhat mediocre. DSJR looks like a good offensive player who isnt much of a game changer. Id trade the 3 of them if i could get a really good proven player. We have a chance to get 2 great players in Durant and Kyrie... I dont think we should pass that up either.


Frank and Knox are like a year younger than DSJ I'd keep them and ditch Smith ASAP. In fact they should have tried to just flip him in a second trade to Phoenix or Orlando. DSJ looks terrible and is older and a diva ... and injured as mouch as Frank.

Plan full rebuild is the best plan now that we can't get Zion. Zion + 2 max injured old players would have been a fine plan because we'd be grooming Zion while being competitive. The #3 pick isn't going to net a positive NBA player in year one so we should tank again and go for AD next year, Giannis the year after.

KDs feet and calves, Kyries metallic knees on 4 year max deals is **** doomsday.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#68 » by nedleeds » Thu May 23, 2019 10:21 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:Dont think i can endure another tank year.

Especially with the new lotto system.

I just cant.


If we won, what would have been your stance?


To me winning Zion would have made the awful max deals way more palatable. We'd be grooming Zion under KD and Kyries amazing veteran leadership and ball sharing (???). But seriously it would mean instant competitive team assuming Zion is a positive NBA starter in his first year. The 4 pick and KD and Kyrie don't makes us an Eastern finals competitor and we can't really trade our way to a 3rd player and still get 2 free agents. We also have no matching salary because our front office is manned by complete buffoons.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#69 » by Lord Commander » Thu May 23, 2019 10:54 pm

BBALLER4FR wrote:DSJ/Dylan
RJ?/Dylan
Frank/Dylan
Knox/Dylan
Mitch /Dylan

Image


:D
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#70 » by dakomish23 » Thu May 23, 2019 11:14 pm

nedleeds wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:Dont think i can endure another tank year.

Especially with the new lotto system.

I just cant.


If we won, what would have been your stance?


To me winning Zion would have made the awful max deals way more palatable. We'd be grooming Zion under KD and Kyries amazing veteran leadership and ball sharing (???). But seriously it would mean instant competitive team assuming Zion is a positive NBA starter in his first year. The 4 pick and KD and Kyrie don't makes us an Eastern finals competitor and we can't really trade our way to a 3rd player and still get 2 free agents. We also have no matching salary because our front office is manned by complete buffoons.


I think we’ll be an ECF contender if we get KD / Kyrie combo.

They’re buffoonery is temporarily lifted b/c they at least put themselves in the best position possible after creating a terrible situation.




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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#71 » by dakomish23 » Thu May 23, 2019 11:15 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:Dont think i can endure another tank year.

Especially with the new lotto system.

I just cant.


If we won, what would have been your stance?


Same thing, just seeing those teams in the 6-10 range jump up so easily makes me weary.

Its a total crapshoot now.


Idk. I’m still all for PTKLWTR if no one comes. Put yourself in a position to succeed.




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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#72 » by aq_ua » Fri May 24, 2019 1:46 am

If we miss this summer, then we’re really playing for the summer of 2021. Missing this summer means that KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, plus the Kemba and Jimmy types have eaten up a lot of the potentially available cap space over the next few years and puts us in competition with teams like Dallas, Atlanta and the Lakers. Realistically, even the 2021 list starts to look weak when you consider the Blazer backcourt will probably stay so the only real prize is Beal. In all likelihood Beal will be traded before the 2021 trade deadline. That means our best course of action assuming we strike out this summer, is to trade for bad contracts (hopefully with high character veterans) that expire in 2021 and accumulate draft picks and young players in the process. I’m looking at the Hornets (Batum), Wolves (Dieng), Heat (Waiters) as trade partners. In the meantime, continue to develop and give playing time to the young guys and upgrade the talent base step by step as the opportunity arises.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#73 » by blanko » Fri May 24, 2019 8:44 am

dakomish23 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
If we won, what would have been your stance?


Same thing, just seeing those teams in the 6-10 range jump up so easily makes me weary.

Its a total crapshoot now.


Idk. I’m still all for PTKLWTR if no one comes. Put yourself in a position to succeed.



The days of "the process" like tanking are over, which is a good thing. Now you just tank by playing the youth more.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#74 » by dakomish23 » Fri May 24, 2019 12:55 pm

blanko wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
Same thing, just seeing those teams in the 6-10 range jump up so easily makes me weary.

Its a total crapshoot now.


Idk. I’m still all for PTKLWTR if no one comes. Put yourself in a position to succeed.



The days of "the process" like tanking are over, which is a good thing. Now you just tank by playing the youth more.


That’s what I want. Play The Kids Live With The Results.

Use your cap space to gain assets in the meanwhile. It’s what I wanted since Feb 2017.

How was the process much different.




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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#75 » by VCBC » Fri May 24, 2019 2:27 pm

blanko wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
Same thing, just seeing those teams in the 6-10 range jump up so easily makes me weary.

Its a total crapshoot now.


Idk. I’m still all for PTKLWTR if no one comes. Put yourself in a position to succeed.



The days of "the process" like tanking are over, which is a good thing. Now you just tank by playing the youth more.
Traditional tanking is over thanks to new odds.

New tanking is taking on bad contracts for lightly protected or un FRPs to increase your odds. Look for Perry to do this if Knicks strike out completely.

Regardless, this is the best FA class ever and upcoming are bad so saddle up for a long road if nothing happens.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#76 » by dakomish23 » Fri May 24, 2019 2:34 pm

VCBC wrote:
blanko wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Idk. I’m still all for PTKLWTR if no one comes. Put yourself in a position to succeed.



The days of "the process" like tanking are over, which is a good thing. Now you just tank by playing the youth more.
Traditional tanking is over thanks to new odds.

New tanking is taking on bad contracts for lightly protected or un FRPs to increase your odds. Look for Perry to do this if Knicks strike out completely.

Regardless, this is the best FA class ever and upcoming are bad so saddle up for a long road if nothing happens.


That’s not new tanking. That also was a staple of the process.

These are all things we should have been doing going into 17-18

PTKLWTR
Liquidating the older vets
Using cap space to gain assets
Preserving 2019 cap space

We didn’t do one of those things. We blew a golden opportunity.

Welp.




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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#77 » by VCBC » Fri May 24, 2019 2:45 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
VCBC wrote:
blanko wrote:

The days of "the process" like tanking are over, which is a good thing. Now you just tank by playing the youth more.
Traditional tanking is over thanks to new odds.

New tanking is taking on bad contracts for lightly protected or un FRPs to increase your odds. Look for Perry to do this if Knicks strike out completely.

Regardless, this is the best FA class ever and upcoming are bad so saddle up for a long road if nothing happens.


That’s not new tanking. That also was a staple of the process.

These are all things we should have been doing

PTKLWTR
Using cap space to gain assets
Preserving 2019 cap space

Welp


Hinkie took on how many bad contracts again?

New, old, whatever, it's going to be adopted league wide because Hinkie tanking strat doesn't work anymore with new odds, doesn't take a scientist to figure out that 50% less success of goal (#1 pick) is going to break that. You mitigate it by getting more FRPs with light protection or un to increase your aggregate odds.
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#78 » by DrCoach » Fri May 24, 2019 2:49 pm

Look at all the teams in the finals

All drafted teams and added a Free Agent when they were ready to compete

RJ is gonna be a Lefty Kobe

lets be patient
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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#79 » by dakomish23 » Fri May 24, 2019 3:18 pm

VCBC wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
VCBC wrote:Traditional tanking is over thanks to new odds.

New tanking is taking on bad contracts for lightly protected or un FRPs to increase your odds. Look for Perry to do this if Knicks strike out completely.

Regardless, this is the best FA class ever and upcoming are bad so saddle up for a long road if nothing happens.


That’s not new tanking. That also was a staple of the process.

These are all things we should have been doing

PTKLWTR
Using cap space to gain assets
Preserving 2019 cap space

Welp


Hinkie took on how many bad contracts again?

New, old, whatever, it's going to be adopted league wide because Hinkie tanking strat doesn't work anymore with new odds, doesn't take a scientist to figure out that 50% less success of goal (#1 pick) is going to break that. You mitigate it by getting more FRPs with light protection or un to increase your aggregate odds.


Are you being serious? Hinkie took on plenty of bad contracts.

How did you think they got from 5 to 1 in 2017?

The SAC dump in 2017 gave them swap rights, so they went from 5 to 3.

They added the unprotected SAC 2019 pick they got in the same dump to go from 3 to 1.

Just one example. Here’s a list of all his transactions.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/hinkisa99x.html

What did you think BKN has been doing since the new FO took over? What did CLE do last year? BOS after we beat them in 2013? Presti when he started in OKC???

This is far from a new innovative strategy and has nothing to do with the changing of the odds.




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Re: Plan full rebuild 

Post#80 » by VCBC » Fri May 24, 2019 3:27 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
VCBC wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
That’s not new tanking. That also was a staple of the process.

These are all things we should have been doing

PTKLWTR
Using cap space to gain assets
Preserving 2019 cap space

Welp


Hinkie took on how many bad contracts again?

New, old, whatever, it's going to be adopted league wide because Hinkie tanking strat doesn't work anymore with new odds, doesn't take a scientist to figure out that 50% less success of goal (#1 pick) is going to break that. You mitigate it by getting more FRPs with light protection or un to increase your aggregate odds.


Are you being serious? Hinkie took on plenty of bad contracts.

How did you think they got from 5 to 1 in 2017?

The SAC dump in 2017 gave them swap rights, so they went from 5 to 3.

They added the unprotected SAC 2019 pick they got in the same dump to go from 3 to 1.

Just one example. Here’s a list of all his transactions.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/hinkisa99x.html

What did you think BKN has been doing since the new FO took over? What did CLE do last year? BOS after we beat them in 2013? Presti when he started in OKC???

This is far from a new innovative strategy and has nothing to do with the changing of the odds.
Your example is 1 trade where Kings cleared 13mn between 2 players or essentially 1 Courtney Lee. Think bigger...

Love Hinkie Homers who pretend to know his strat when in actuality don't understand the core principles and his pref.

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