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Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50

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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1761 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Aug 2, 2021 3:11 am

blueNorange wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
blueNorange wrote:no, he’s damaged goods.

and this isn’t tjs related because mets signed jt ginn knowing he was getting tjs

this is like a shoulder related injury.


Do you have a source? I just watched a video with Andy Martino and he says no one is confirming anything.

no, you just have to read the room

- they didn't offer him any contract after reveiwing medicals
- mets doctors are worried
- boras' unnamed doctors says he's fine
- jt ginn was drafted and got overslot money with the mets knowing he needed surgery
- rocker isn't going back to vandy, and isn't going to pitch again.

my guess it's shoulder related, it sucks but now they have 2 first rounders next year.


It ruined our entire draft. Dang. Where does the additional first round pick come in at?

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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1762 » by blueNorange » Mon Aug 2, 2021 3:28 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
blueNorange wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Do you have a source? I just watched a video with Andy Martino and he says no one is confirming anything.

no, you just have to read the room

- they didn't offer him any contract after reveiwing medicals
- mets doctors are worried
- boras' unnamed doctors says he's fine
- jt ginn was drafted and got overslot money with the mets knowing he needed surgery
- rocker isn't going back to vandy, and isn't going to pitch again.

my guess it's shoulder related, it sucks but now they have 2 first rounders next year.


It ruined our entire draft. Dang. Where does the additional first round pick come in at?

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next year, #11.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1763 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Aug 2, 2021 3:29 am

blueNorange wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
blueNorange wrote:no, you just have to read the room

- they didn't offer him any contract after reveiwing medicals
- mets doctors are worried
- boras' unnamed doctors says he's fine
- jt ginn was drafted and got overslot money with the mets knowing he needed surgery
- rocker isn't going back to vandy, and isn't going to pitch again.

my guess it's shoulder related, it sucks but now they have 2 first rounders next year.


It ruined our entire draft. Dang. Where does the additional first round pick come in at?

Image

next year, #11.


Man, that sucks for the team picking no. 12. Interesting how baseball has integrated this rule and basketball hasn't. Do you have any insight into why this is so in baseball in particular?
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1764 » by nykballa2k4 » Tue Aug 3, 2021 5:43 pm

What does this mean for Rockers future? Does that mean any team can sign him for anything?
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1765 » by Luv those Knicks » Sat Aug 7, 2021 11:35 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Man, that sucks for the team picking no. 12. Interesting how baseball has integrated this rule and basketball hasn't. Do you have any insight into why this is so in baseball in particular?


This happens in baseball every couple of years. Something comes up in a physical and a team has 2nd thoughts. It happened with Brady Aiken in 2014 and 2 draftees in 2018. Only first & 2nd round picks get compensated, 1 draft pick later in the following draft and only if the player doesn't take a physical before he's drafted, otherwise the team has to make an offer but there's a fair bit of flexibility in size.

Draft picks in baseball have a certain amount of value, but rarely an immediate impact. Basketball is a little different, the player can have an immediate impact, or might be a bust. I think basketball doesn't want to open that can of worms in negotiating with draft picks or letting teams not sign their guy and slip to the following year. The fixed contract system seems to be working and picks either work out or they don't.

Imagine if you had the #1 overall pick in a week draft class, and you wanted to flip that pick into the #2 pick in a strong draft class. a year later. In baseball, that type of action costs draft money, and classes are hard to assess a year ahead of time. In basketball in theory, a team could screw over a player to get a pick a year later.

Both systems work. In basketball, teams draft the best player they can. In baseball, there's more negotiation and money can be spread out differently, also a longer wait time from draft to helping the team and I would argue, bugger unknowns. Football is like basketball too, where there's no compensation for not signing a player.

Mets will do fine with the #11 pick next year. They blew this year's draft but they'll have more money to spend next year. The only thing it really hurts is if they lose a pick by signing another team's QO player, then they lose their 2nd overall pick which right now might be around 15-18, depending on where they end up. That's a big penalty, so I'm guessing they won't sign another team's QO player next year.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1766 » by Luv those Knicks » Sat Aug 7, 2021 11:38 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:What does this mean for Rockers future? Does that mean any team can sign him for anything?


In theory, any team can sign him for $20,000 which is the maximum offer for undrafted players, but he won't accept that. What it means is he can enters the draft again next year and hopes for a good offer.

Boras (Rocker's agent) guessed the mets would still want him. The mets didn't and Boras' gamble didn't pay off. It's hard to say what Rocker will get offered next year. It'll probably depend on the seriousness of what the mets found in his physical. I'm sure he'll still get an offer of millions, but maybe not 6 million. I'm sure he's still a first round pick next year.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1767 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 8, 2021 2:30 am

Luv those Knicks wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:What does this mean for Rockers future? Does that mean any team can sign him for anything?


In theory, any team can sign him for $20,000 which is the maximum offer for undrafted players, but he won't accept that. What it means is he can enters the draft again next year and hopes for a good offer.

Boras (Rocker's agent) guessed the mets would still want him. The mets didn't and Boras' gamble didn't pay off. It's hard to say what Rocker will get offered next year. It'll probably depend on the seriousness of what the mets found in his physical. I'm sure he'll still get an offer of millions, but maybe not 6 million. I'm sure he's still a first round pick next year.


Did the Mets pull the $6 million off the table or did Rocker walk away from the $6M?
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1768 » by 2010 » Sun Aug 8, 2021 5:54 pm

So are we gonna sit here and act like this collapse isn’t happening?

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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1769 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 8, 2021 6:29 pm

2010 wrote:So are we gonna sit here and act like this collapse isn’t happening?

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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1770 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 8, 2021 6:59 pm

Mets are getting shut out by Zack Wheeler who’s held them to 1 hit 0 BB in 6 innings.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1771 » by Luv those Knicks » Mon Aug 9, 2021 10:44 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Did the Mets pull the $6 million off the table or did Rocker walk away from the $6M?


They pulled the 6 million off the table. Rocker was, earlier in the year, projected to go 1 or 2, then he had a velocity drop mid year, and picked it up a bit towards the end. The Mets didn't expect him to fall to them. He refused to get a physical with any team, and Boras went to the Mets and said he'd sign with them for 6 million. The Mets jumped on the offer, building their whole draft around him.

Then they gave him a physical and pulled the offer because they didn't like what they saw.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1772 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:18 am

Luv those Knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Did the Mets pull the $6 million off the table or did Rocker walk away from the $6M?


They pulled the 6 million off the table. Rocker was, earlier in the year, projected to go 1 or 2, then he had a velocity drop mid year, and picked it up a bit towards the end. The Mets didn't expect him to fall to them. He refused to get a physical with any team, and Boras went to the Mets and said he'd sign with them for 6 million. The Mets jumped on the offer, building their whole draft around him.

Then they gave him a physical and pulled the offer because they didn't like what they saw.


So the Mets made no counter offer? Hmm.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1773 » by mpharris36 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:16 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Luv those Knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Did the Mets pull the $6 million off the table or did Rocker walk away from the $6M?


They pulled the 6 million off the table. Rocker was, earlier in the year, projected to go 1 or 2, then he had a velocity drop mid year, and picked it up a bit towards the end. The Mets didn't expect him to fall to them. He refused to get a physical with any team, and Boras went to the Mets and said he'd sign with them for 6 million. The Mets jumped on the offer, building their whole draft around him.

Then they gave him a physical and pulled the offer because they didn't like what they saw.


So the Mets made no counter offer? Hmm.


there was no offer made from the mets after the reviewed his medicals.

Rocker and Boras wouldn't allow teams to review medicals prior to the draft. Before signing you have to have a physical so the mets finally were able to review his arm/shoulder (the mets knew the $$$ it would take to sign him before picking him so that wasn't an issue).

After they reviewed his medicals they felt the #11 pick next year (they get a compensation pick for not signing your 1st round pick) would give them more value then Rockers arm/shoulder. So I don't think would have signed rocker even for 1 million at that point if Rocker wanted. They don't beleive his arm/shoulder is healthy and completely pulled the offer off the table.

The mistake came from selecting a player who's agent is keeping his medicals away from teams. They never should have taken that risk to begin with. 9 other teams felt not seeing his medicals was important the mets learned the lessen the hard way but at least they didn't double down on the mistake and sign him just to save face when his arm/shoulder probably wont hold up.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1774 » by Luv those Knicks » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:26 am

Yup. What MP said.

A 2nd mistake the Mets made in hindsight was cutting nearly 900K from their picks 2-9 and then having nobody to spend that money on. If they'd taken one high priced high school talent in day 3 they could have signed them as an alternate option. They get the #11 pick next year, but money not spent this year is still lost.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1775 » by mpharris36 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:32 am

Luv those Knicks wrote:Yup. What MP said.

A 2nd mistake the Mets made in hindsight was cutting nearly 900K from their picks 2-9 and then having nobody to spend that money on. If they'd taken one high priced high school talent in day 3 they could have signed them as an alternate option. They get the #11 pick next year, but money not spent this year is still lost.


correct they went completely underslot with all there picks which wasn't smart. They should have planned for the scenario that rockers medicals were bad and they could have at least recouped some value by not signing Rocker by overpaying a mid round pick to go overslot with his money.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1776 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:34 am

mpharris36 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Luv those Knicks wrote:
They pulled the 6 million off the table. Rocker was, earlier in the year, projected to go 1 or 2, then he had a velocity drop mid year, and picked it up a bit towards the end. The Mets didn't expect him to fall to them. He refused to get a physical with any team, and Boras went to the Mets and said he'd sign with them for 6 million. The Mets jumped on the offer, building their whole draft around him.

Then they gave him a physical and pulled the offer because they didn't like what they saw.


So the Mets made no counter offer? Hmm.


there was no offer made from the mets after the reviewed his medicals.

Rocker and Boras wouldn't allow teams to review medicals prior to the draft. Before signing you have to have a physical so the mets finally were able to review his arm/shoulder (the mets knew the $$$ it would take to sign him before picking him so that wasn't an issue).

After they reviewed his medicals they felt the #11 pick next year (they get a compensation pick for not signing your 1st round pick) would give them more value then Rockers arm/shoulder. So I don't think would have signed rocker even for 1 million at that point if Rocker wanted. They don't beleive his arm/shoulder is healthy and completely pulled the offer off the table.

The mistake came from selecting a player who's agent is keeping his medicals away from teams. They never should have taken that risk to begin with. 9 other teams felt not seeing his medicals was important the mets learned the lessen the hard way but at least they didn't double down on the mistake and sign him just to save face when his arm/shoulder probably wont hold up.


No fcking kidding. That's an amateurish mistake.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1777 » by mpharris36 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:40 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
So the Mets made no counter offer? Hmm.


there was no offer made from the mets after the reviewed his medicals.

Rocker and Boras wouldn't allow teams to review medicals prior to the draft. Before signing you have to have a physical so the mets finally were able to review his arm/shoulder (the mets knew the $$$ it would take to sign him before picking him so that wasn't an issue).

After they reviewed his medicals they felt the #11 pick next year (they get a compensation pick for not signing your 1st round pick) would give them more value then Rockers arm/shoulder. So I don't think would have signed rocker even for 1 million at that point if Rocker wanted. They don't beleive his arm/shoulder is healthy and completely pulled the offer off the table.

The mistake came from selecting a player who's agent is keeping his medicals away from teams. They never should have taken that risk to begin with. 9 other teams felt not seeing his medicals was important the mets learned the lessen the hard way but at least they didn't double down on the mistake and sign him just to save face when his arm/shoulder probably wont hold up.


No fcking kidding. That's an amateurish mistake.


I think they fell for the splash pick and getting a guy with top 5 potential that they overlooked being diligent about a prospect.

Boras was clearly keeping his medicals away from teams for a reason.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1778 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:42 am

mpharris36 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
there was no offer made from the mets after the reviewed his medicals.

Rocker and Boras wouldn't allow teams to review medicals prior to the draft. Before signing you have to have a physical so the mets finally were able to review his arm/shoulder (the mets knew the $$$ it would take to sign him before picking him so that wasn't an issue).

After they reviewed his medicals they felt the #11 pick next year (they get a compensation pick for not signing your 1st round pick) would give them more value then Rockers arm/shoulder. So I don't think would have signed rocker even for 1 million at that point if Rocker wanted. They don't beleive his arm/shoulder is healthy and completely pulled the offer off the table.

The mistake came from selecting a player who's agent is keeping his medicals away from teams. They never should have taken that risk to begin with. 9 other teams felt not seeing his medicals was important the mets learned the lessen the hard way but at least they didn't double down on the mistake and sign him just to save face when his arm/shoulder probably wont hold up.


No fcking kidding. That's an amateurish mistake.


I think they fell for the splash pick and getting a guy with top 5 potential that they overlooked being diligent about a prospect.

Boras was clearly keeping his medicals away from teams for a reason.


When Boras, of all people, isn't agreeing to share the pitcher's medicals, then you just have to go with someone else. There should've been a Plan B.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1779 » by Luv those Knicks » Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:22 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
When Boras, of all people, isn't agreeing to share the pitcher's medicals, then you just have to go with someone else. There should've been a Plan B.


Yup. I think somebody gets fired over this. The Mets did really well with the 2019 and 2020 drafts, getting some nice tallent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds with over-slots paid for by later rounds on day 2. They 100% blew it this year.
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Re: Official 2020 Mets Thread, p. 50 

Post#1780 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:44 am

Luv those Knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
When Boras, of all people, isn't agreeing to share the pitcher's medicals, then you just have to go with someone else. There should've been a Plan B.


Yup. I think somebody gets fired over this. The Mets did really well with the 2019 and 2020 drafts, getting some nice tallent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds with over-slots paid for by later rounds on day 2. They 100% blew it this year.


Did you get to hear Gary interview the new GM about a week ago during a broadcast? :noway:

He didn’t exactly inspire confidence.he’s the guy they found after having to fire the first new guy for serial sexual harassment. For fcks sake.

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