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[The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like?

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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#41 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:36 am

cgmw wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
Stannis wrote:I want Mitch at 30 MPG


I want the NBA to allow 7 fouls per game as well.

Exactly. I’m afraid fans are getting a little too optimistic about a 21 year old with 1 year of organized basketball since HS.

Personally, I’d line to see Taj start at center with Mitch given free reign to jump and foul as much as he pleases off the bench for another half season.


Mitch's minutes rose through last season. I gave you the link to his game stats.

He averaged 32 minutes a game the final 8 games of last season so as far as the minutes notion he finished out the season strong in that category.

His PF average those final 8 games was 3.625 so on average he was not close to fouling out with 5 fouls in only one of those games.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#42 » by HerSports85 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:49 am

I think this is what we will see

DSJR / Payton
RJ / Trier
Morris / Knox
Randle / Taj
Mitch / Portis

Spot mins: Ellington and Dotson

Out of the rotation: Frank, Iggy and Bullock

More I think about it, I’ll prefer we didn’t have Ellington. Let iggy and Frank fight for those mins.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#43 » by Blockwatcher » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:04 pm

This is what I think of this list and the guy who compiled it.



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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#44 » by JXL » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:13 pm

No way Frank is playing this year, especially when they put the flier out there that they want to trade him. I think they want to trot out there Dotson more at the 2 with the bench guys, and see his minutes split with Trier there. I expect to see Knox minutes drop significantly because of the glute of frontcourt players. Here's how I see the minutes split up upon the roster:

Dennis Smith Jr. - 26
Elfrid Payton - 20
RJ Barrett - 26
Allozo Trier - 18
Dameyan Dotson - 14
Marcus Morris - 25
Kevin Knox - 21
Iggy Brezdekis - 12
Julius Randle - 28
Bobby Portis - 19
Mitchell Robinson - 24
Taj Gibson - 17
Wayne Ellington - 10
Reggie Bullock - 0 (cause he's injured)
Frank Ntilikina - 0 (he's getting a lot of DNPs, then traded)
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#45 » by cgmw » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:26 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
cgmw wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
I want the NBA to allow 7 fouls per game as well.

Exactly. I’m afraid fans are getting a little too optimistic about a 21 year old with 1 year of organized basketball since HS.

Personally, I’d line to see Taj start at center with Mitch given free reign to jump and foul as much as he pleases off the bench for another half season.


Mitch's minutes rose through last season. I gave you the link to his game stats.

He averaged 32 minutes a game the final 8 games of last season so as far as the minutes notion he finished out the season strong in that category.

His PF average those final 8 games was 3.625 so on average he was not close to fouling out with 5 fouls in only one of those games.

Encouraging sign for sure but not sufficient to predict an entire 82 game season against opposing starters in games that matter.

I’m just saying everybody is in a rush. It could be best for his development to let him bang against opponents’ second teams while getting mentored by Gibson, at least to begin the season.

Fan expectations seem to be 30 mpg as a f/t starter, but that seems wildly optimistic at this point imo.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#46 » by seren » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:33 pm

I think salaries will be correlated with minutes, at least to start the season. Things will change according to overall record and possible injuries and trades. Here is my expectation:

Payton/DSJr
RJ/Ellington
Morris/Knox
Randle/Portis
Taj/Robinson

I expect Randle/Portis/Morris to average 30 mpg or more. Taj/Ellington/Payton 24 mpg or more. Robinson/DSJr/RJ 20-24 mpg. Knox 15-20 mpg. Everyone else spot up minutes. Again this assumes a healthy roster.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#47 » by cgmw » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:06 pm

seren wrote:I think salaries will be correlated with minutes, at least to start the season. Things will change according to overall record and possible injuries and trades. Here is my expectation:

Payton/DSJr
RJ/Ellington
Morris/Knox
Randle/Portis
Taj/Robinson

I expect Randle/Portis/Morris to average 30 mpg or more. Taj/Ellington/Payton 24 mpg or more. Robinson/DSJr/RJ 20-24 mpg. Knox 15-20 mpg. Everyone else spot up minutes. Again this assumes a healthy roster.

That’s exactly my prediction earlier this offseason and in this thread.

Except I see Trier getting every opportunity to beat out Ellington.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#48 » by Kampuchea » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:15 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
cgmw wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
I want the NBA to allow 7 fouls per game as well.

Exactly. I’m afraid fans are getting a little too optimistic about a 21 year old with 1 year of organized basketball since HS.

Personally, I’d line to see Taj start at center with Mitch given free reign to jump and foul as much as he pleases off the bench for another half season.


Mitch's minutes rose through last season. I gave you the link to his game stats.

He averaged 32 minutes a game the final 8 games of last season so as far as the minutes notion he finished out the season strong in that category.

His PF average those final 8 games was 3.625 so on average he was not close to fouling out with 5 fouls in only one of those games.


This is good info. Not a huge sample size but the improvement through the season is a promising trend.

His fouling was an issue but there is no reason to think it won't be corrected, especially if he was already correcting it by the end of last season.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#49 » by stuporman » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:33 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
stuporman wrote:I see Dot and Frank riding pine for more whole games than people on this forum will be wanting to accept and I'm getting a feeling that Pillz has some 'our guys' mentality and those two are Jax guys.


Dot was the most consistent player for long stretches of last season. He plays defense and hits shots (most of the time). Not sure why you lump him in with Frank and his obstacles to playing time.

It is a numbers game and Dot might not play, but based on performance last season he definitely deserves to.


You don't know why I'd lump those two together? Did you read the full sentence that comprises my whole post? It's right in there, read it again. :lol:
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#50 » by seren » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:49 pm

cgmw wrote:
seren wrote:I think salaries will be correlated with minutes, at least to start the season. Things will change according to overall record and possible injuries and trades. Here is my expectation:

Payton/DSJr
RJ/Ellington
Morris/Knox
Randle/Portis
Taj/Robinson

I expect Randle/Portis/Morris to average 30 mpg or more. Taj/Ellington/Payton 24 mpg or more. Robinson/DSJr/RJ 20-24 mpg. Knox 15-20 mpg. Everyone else spot up minutes. Again this assumes a healthy roster.

That’s exactly my prediction earlier this offseason and in this thread.

Except I see Trier getting every opportunity to beat out Ellington.


I am looking at Trier situation closely. He might be the first Knick in more than two decades to get multi year extension over rookie contract. Or (and this is more likely), he will be in a different uniform next year
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#51 » by br7knicks » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:03 pm

- i figured DSJR would be starting, but i didn't want to believe it. i'm hoping payton outplays him in training camp/pre season.

- don't know why mitch is only at 23 minutes. when he was given 30+. he did fine. i do think he'll be very foul prone in the beginning of the season, though. i'd like to see mitch get 28-30, not 23.

- knox at 20 seems about right. he'll probably get more as the season progresses, as long as he doesn't play like he did last season - the best thing for the knicks was to grab guys who can take minutes from him, so he learns to not play like last year. i predict that, when any number or morris, portis, gibson get traded, he'll take on a few more minutes at PF.

- prediction: payton will end up with more minutes eventually. he's the only true PG (frank hasn't shown much, still), and he'll have good chemistry with randle and morris.

- dotson will gain more minutes like he did last season. he's one of the few guys worth keeping around, as he's defense first, can shoot, and doesn't need the ball to be helpful. plus, he won't be demanding a lot of money next year.

- hopefully trier will be moved to another team, or lose minutes. but 14 sounds about what this team would give him.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#52 » by GONYK » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:20 pm

br7knicks wrote:- i figured DSJR would be starting, but i didn't want to believe it. i'm hoping payton outplays him in training camp/pre season.

- don't know why mitch is only at 23 minutes. when he was given 30+. he did fine. i do think he'll be very foul prone in the beginning of the season, though. i'd like to see mitch get 28-30, not 23.

- knox at 20 seems about right. he'll probably get more as the season progresses, as long as he doesn't play like he did last season - the best thing for the knicks was to grab guys who can take minutes from him, so he learns to not play like last year. i predict that, when any number or morris, portis, gibson get traded, he'll take on a few more minutes at PF.

- prediction: payton will end up with more minutes eventually. he's the only true PG (frank hasn't shown much, still), and he'll have good chemistry with randle and morris.

- dotson will gain more minutes like he did last season. he's one of the few guys worth keeping around, as he's defense first, can shoot, and doesn't need the ball to be helpful. plus, he won't be demanding a lot of money next year.

- hopefully trier will be moved to another team, or lose minutes. but 14 sounds about what this team would give him.


The anticipation here is that Fiz will want to play Randle at the 5 more than people think
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#53 » by br7knicks » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:35 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Yea. He usually plays an 9 man rotation, swapping out 6 guys every 13 days.


it is almost as ridiculous, no doubt about that



I think unless there is an injury to open up major playing time it will be a wild ride. We will probably have a 10-11 man rotation and Frank/Iggy/Dot playing light minutes. Then if someone is struggling or fiz gets tired of that rotation he will probably throw them in for a kick in the pants. I see a lot of movement with rotation throught the year. It's fiz's MO and he has the roster to completely change up from week to week.

As long as RJ and Mitch don't get lost in the shuffle we should be alright. But we should really focus on the players that compliment those two the most. Along with Randle and Morris being big vet contributors.


i think we'll find that, eventually, the best chemistry is going to be

payton
RJ (or ellington, but hopefully not)
morris
randle
mitch
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#54 » by br7knicks » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:35 pm

GONYK wrote:
br7knicks wrote:- i figured DSJR would be starting, but i didn't want to believe it. i'm hoping payton outplays him in training camp/pre season.

- don't know why mitch is only at 23 minutes. when he was given 30+. he did fine. i do think he'll be very foul prone in the beginning of the season, though. i'd like to see mitch get 28-30, not 23.

- knox at 20 seems about right. he'll probably get more as the season progresses, as long as he doesn't play like he did last season - the best thing for the knicks was to grab guys who can take minutes from him, so he learns to not play like last year. i predict that, when any number or morris, portis, gibson get traded, he'll take on a few more minutes at PF.

- prediction: payton will end up with more minutes eventually. he's the only true PG (frank hasn't shown much, still), and he'll have good chemistry with randle and morris.

- dotson will gain more minutes like he did last season. he's one of the few guys worth keeping around, as he's defense first, can shoot, and doesn't need the ball to be helpful. plus, he won't be demanding a lot of money next year.

- hopefully trier will be moved to another team, or lose minutes. but 14 sounds about what this team would give him.


The anticipation here is that Fiz will want to play Randle at the 5 more than people think


that's what he did with gasol, right? having that stretch 5?
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#55 » by shtolky » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:36 pm

Mitch isn't playing just 2 minutes more per game than he did last season.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#56 » by zeke45 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:53 pm

What are the odds one or more of our rotation guys have multi week absences? Very high.

Guys will get their minutes, just maybe not in beginning of the season
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#57 » by Stannis » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:22 pm

Kampuchea wrote:
Stannis wrote:I want Mitch at 30 MPG


I want the NBA to allow 7 fouls per game as well.

If he's in foul trouble, by all means, Taj or Portis gets those minutes.

But he's clearly the best big defender on the team.

I don't think rotation in the OP assumed Mitch was going to be in foul trouble every game hence the low minutes. They merely just took his minutes so they could give them to other players that were signed.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#58 » by br7knicks » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:34 pm

Stannis wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
Stannis wrote:I want Mitch at 30 MPG


I want the NBA to allow 7 fouls per game as well.

If he's in foul trouble, by all means, Taj or Portis gets those minutes.

But he's clearly the best big defender on the team.

I don't think rotation in the OP assumed Mitch was going to be in foul trouble every game hence the low minutes. They merely just took his minutes so they could give them to other players that were signed.


Based on most of last season, and SL, I brought up the concern of Mitch fouling too often. During SL, most of his fouls were straight laziness, and the goaltending was ridiculous.

I raised concern that Mitch would develop bad habits in being allowed to do this, and someone on here scoffed at it. Couldn't believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if Mitch loses minutes quickly in the season because of it.

I hope I'm wrong, but im not sure, not based on his SL play. But he's also good at adapting and changing behaviors
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#59 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:51 pm

cgmw wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
cgmw wrote:Exactly. I’m afraid fans are getting a little too optimistic about a 21 year old with 1 year of organized basketball since HS.

Personally, I’d line to see Taj start at center with Mitch given free reign to jump and foul as much as he pleases off the bench for another half season.


Mitch's minutes rose through last season. I gave you the link to his game stats.

He averaged 32 minutes a game the final 8 games of last season so as far as the minutes notion he finished out the season strong in that category.

His PF average those final 8 games was 3.625 so on average he was not close to fouling out with 5 fouls in only one of those games.

Encouraging sign for sure but not sufficient to predict an entire 82 game season against opposing starters in games that matter.

I’m just saying everybody is in a rush. It could be best for his development to let him bang against opponents’ second teams while getting mentored by Gibson, at least to begin the season.

Fan expectations seem to be 30 mpg as a f/t starter, but that seems wildly optimistic at this point imo.


Well, different interpretation for sure. Saying it is wildly optimistic when there is a very clear trend indicating otherwise is not how I would put it
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#60 » by Stannis » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:53 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
I want the NBA to allow 7 fouls per game as well.

If he's in foul trouble, by all means, Taj or Portis gets those minutes.

But he's clearly the best big defender on the team.

I don't think rotation in the OP assumed Mitch was going to be in foul trouble every game hence the low minutes. They merely just took his minutes so they could give them to other players that were signed.


Based on most of last season, and SL, I brought up the concern of Mitch fouling too often. During SL, most of his fouls were straight laziness, and the goaltending was ridiculous.

I raised concern that Mitch would develop bad habits in being allowed to do this, and someone on here scoffed at it. Couldn't believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if Mitch loses minutes quickly in the season because of it.

I hope I'm wrong, but im not sure, not based on his SL play. But he's also good at adapting and changing behaviors


I mean, if he is only going to play 20 MPG, he sure is gonna maximize his fouls because he can.

But he's proved he can be collective when playing 30 MPG+ from what Clyde's stats shows.

I think if you play him 20 MPG, it will make his bad habits worse. If you play him real starter minutes, it will help him in the long run because it forces him to be smarter.
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