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OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA

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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#161 » by Kampuchea » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:37 pm

The leaders of China are acting a bit childish about this, they surely can't expect the NBA to remove freedom of speech from the employees of various teams. The statement was also not made by the NBA or on behalf of the NBA, I suppose I could understand them being annoyed with the Rockets but not sure why the NBA as a whole is targeted.
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#162 » by Marty McFly » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:38 pm

never thought id see the day i'd be stannin Morey. :roll:
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#163 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Oct 8, 2019 9:33 pm

Pleasantly surprised at the following:

Silver issued a new written statement on Tuesday morning which said in part: “It is inevitable that people around the world — including from America and China — will have different viewpoints over different issues. It is not the role of the N.B.A. to adjudicate those differences.”

It continued, “However, the N.B.A. will not put itself in a position of regulating what players, employees and team owners say or will not say on these issues. We simply could not operate that way.”

Silver was more blunt during his news conference: “We will protect our employees’ freedom of speech.”
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#164 » by KnicksGod » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:15 am

Kampuchea wrote:The leaders of China are acting a bit childish about this, they surely can't expect the NBA to remove freedom of speech from the employees of various teams. The statement was also not made by the NBA or on behalf of the NBA, I suppose I could understand them being annoyed with the Rockets but not sure why the NBA as a whole is targeted.


You have to wonder why any leadership would be so concerned with people speaking their mind. That in and of itself is a major problem.
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#165 » by aq_ua » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:26 am

KnicksGod wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:The leaders of China are acting a bit childish about this, they surely can't expect the NBA to remove freedom of speech from the employees of various teams. The statement was also not made by the NBA or on behalf of the NBA, I suppose I could understand them being annoyed with the Rockets but not sure why the NBA as a whole is targeted.


You have to wonder why any leadership would be so concerned with people speaking their mind. That in and of itself is a major problem.

China wrote: Hello!!!??? Have we not met before???? It’s me, freakin’ China!!!This is what China do!!!
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#166 » by KnicksGod » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:47 am

aq_ua wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:The leaders of China are acting a bit childish about this, they surely can't expect the NBA to remove freedom of speech from the employees of various teams. The statement was also not made by the NBA or on behalf of the NBA, I suppose I could understand them being annoyed with the Rockets but not sure why the NBA as a whole is targeted.


You have to wonder why any leadership would be so concerned with people speaking their mind. That in and of itself is a major problem.

China wrote: Hello!!!??? Have we not met before???? It’s me, freakin’ China!!!This is what China do!!!


lol Yes. It's definitely not new. But when a government is that worried about someone giving a conflicting point of view, it is very clearly a sign that they rely on information control and spin. That is a big problem because it means autocracy and lack of accountability.

Things we already knew. But Morey doing it ... thousands of miles away, not a politician, and nothing too extraordinary that he said ... shows how very threatened they are by free thought and a true accounting of the way they conduct their affairs.

Sounds familiar lol.

In all fairness though, the NBA is not a nation state. They don't imprison the Chinese ... it goes without saying. They are merely selling basketball to them. The league could boycott but in further fairness, we have known for a long time that the NBA is selling to China. So while the issue comes out now in a way that is controversial, it's also not something that is new. It's just now in front of people.

I'm not changing my mind on this, I don't like dictatorships or big businesses doing business with dictatorships, but really we haven't learned anything new. Just that the NBA didn't take a stand here. But what's more important ... the years of time that the NBA has been successfully cultivating the Chinese market, or just the current day's news?

I guess my point is -- where was everybody before this? We all knew the NBA was getting big in China. I didn't object. Nobody here did that I can recall. So why now? I get it -- it's news and news cycles -- but really nothing has changed.

Companies that want access to China's huge market have to pass some stringent requirements with that government. So really, all this info was available before the Morey episode.
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#167 » by robillionaire » Wed Oct 9, 2019 2:21 am

KnicksGod wrote:
aq_ua wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
You have to wonder why any leadership would be so concerned with people speaking their mind. That in and of itself is a major problem.

China wrote: Hello!!!??? Have we not met before???? It’s me, freakin’ China!!!This is what China do!!!


lol Yes. It's definitely not new. But when a government is that worried about someone giving a conflicting point of view, it is very clearly a sign that they rely on information control and spin. That is a big problem because it means autocracy and lack of accountability.

Things we already knew. But Morey doing it ... thousands of miles away, not a politician, and nothing too extraordinary that he said ... shows how very threatened they are by free thought and a true accounting of the way they conduct their affairs.

Sounds familiar lol.

In all fairness though, the NBA is not a nation state. They don't imprison the Chinese ... it goes without saying. They are merely selling basketball to them. The league could boycott but in further fairness, we have known for a long time that the NBA is selling to China. So while the issue comes out now in a way that is controversial, it's also not something that is new. It's just now in front of people.

I'm not changing my mind on this, I don't like dictatorships or big businesses doing business with dictatorships, but really we haven't learned anything new. Just that the NBA didn't take a stand here. But what's more important ... the years of time that the NBA has been successfully cultivating the Chinese market, or just the current day's news?

I guess my point is -- where was everybody before this? We all knew the NBA was getting big in China. I didn't object. Nobody here did that I can recall. So why now? I get it -- it's news and news cycles -- but really nothing has changed.

Companies that want access to China's huge market have to pass some stringent requirements with that government. So really, all this info was available before the Morey episode.


The whole notion that the NBA should boycott China is somewhat laughable when you look at how pretty much everything in the US was made in China. Including clothes on most of our backs and whatever device you're using to read this. But the NBA is supposed to boycott them when the country sold out to them for cheap labor and products a long time ago and is up to our necks in debt to them. But for some reason the NBA is supposed to kneecap themselves and not sell their product to China.
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#168 » by KnicksGod » Wed Oct 9, 2019 2:27 am

robillionaire wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
aq_ua wrote:


lol Yes. It's definitely not new. But when a government is that worried about someone giving a conflicting point of view, it is very clearly a sign that they rely on information control and spin. That is a big problem because it means autocracy and lack of accountability.

Things we already knew. But Morey doing it ... thousands of miles away, not a politician, and nothing too extraordinary that he said ... shows how very threatened they are by free thought and a true accounting of the way they conduct their affairs.

Sounds familiar lol.

In all fairness though, the NBA is not a nation state. They don't imprison the Chinese ... it goes without saying. They are merely selling basketball to them. The league could boycott but in further fairness, we have known for a long time that the NBA is selling to China. So while the issue comes out now in a way that is controversial, it's also not something that is new. It's just now in front of people.

I'm not changing my mind on this, I don't like dictatorships or big businesses doing business with dictatorships, but really we haven't learned anything new. Just that the NBA didn't take a stand here. But what's more important ... the years of time that the NBA has been successfully cultivating the Chinese market, or just the current day's news?

I guess my point is -- where was everybody before this? We all knew the NBA was getting big in China. I didn't object. Nobody here did that I can recall. So why now? I get it -- it's news and news cycles -- but really nothing has changed.

Companies that want access to China's huge market have to pass some stringent requirements with that government. So really, all this info was available before the Morey episode.


The whole notion that the NBA should boycott China is somewhat laughable when you look at how pretty much everything in the US was made in China. Including clothes on most of our backs and whatever device you're using to read this. But the NBA is supposed to boycott them when the country sold out to them for cheap labor and products a long time ago and is up to our necks in debt to them. But for some reason the NBA is supposed to kneecap themselves and not sell their product to China.


I mean it’s a fair point.
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#169 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Oct 9, 2019 2:57 am

robillionaire wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
aq_ua wrote:


lol Yes. It's definitely not new. But when a government is that worried about someone giving a conflicting point of view, it is very clearly a sign that they rely on information control and spin. That is a big problem because it means autocracy and lack of accountability.

Things we already knew. But Morey doing it ... thousands of miles away, not a politician, and nothing too extraordinary that he said ... shows how very threatened they are by free thought and a true accounting of the way they conduct their affairs.

Sounds familiar lol.

In all fairness though, the NBA is not a nation state. They don't imprison the Chinese ... it goes without saying. They are merely selling basketball to them. The league could boycott but in further fairness, we have known for a long time that the NBA is selling to China. So while the issue comes out now in a way that is controversial, it's also not something that is new. It's just now in front of people.

I'm not changing my mind on this, I don't like dictatorships or big businesses doing business with dictatorships, but really we haven't learned anything new. Just that the NBA didn't take a stand here. But what's more important ... the years of time that the NBA has been successfully cultivating the Chinese market, or just the current day's news?

I guess my point is -- where was everybody before this? We all knew the NBA was getting big in China. I didn't object. Nobody here did that I can recall. So why now? I get it -- it's news and news cycles -- but really nothing has changed.

Companies that want access to China's huge market have to pass some stringent requirements with that government. So really, all this info was available before the Morey episode.


The whole notion that the NBA should boycott China is somewhat laughable when you look at how pretty much everything in the US was made in China. Including clothes on most of our backs and whatever device you're using to read this. But the NBA is supposed to boycott them when the country sold out to them for cheap labor and products a long time ago and is up to our necks in debt to them. But for some reason the NBA is supposed to kneecap themselves and not sell their product to China.


That is not the point.

The point is China trying to censor our citizens with business blackmail.

That is more having global trade relationships with China.
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#170 » by robillionaire » Wed Oct 9, 2019 4:15 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
lol Yes. It's definitely not new. But when a government is that worried about someone giving a conflicting point of view, it is very clearly a sign that they rely on information control and spin. That is a big problem because it means autocracy and lack of accountability.

Things we already knew. But Morey doing it ... thousands of miles away, not a politician, and nothing too extraordinary that he said ... shows how very threatened they are by free thought and a true accounting of the way they conduct their affairs.

Sounds familiar lol.

In all fairness though, the NBA is not a nation state. They don't imprison the Chinese ... it goes without saying. They are merely selling basketball to them. The league could boycott but in further fairness, we have known for a long time that the NBA is selling to China. So while the issue comes out now in a way that is controversial, it's also not something that is new. It's just now in front of people.

I'm not changing my mind on this, I don't like dictatorships or big businesses doing business with dictatorships, but really we haven't learned anything new. Just that the NBA didn't take a stand here. But what's more important ... the years of time that the NBA has been successfully cultivating the Chinese market, or just the current day's news?

I guess my point is -- where was everybody before this? We all knew the NBA was getting big in China. I didn't object. Nobody here did that I can recall. So why now? I get it -- it's news and news cycles -- but really nothing has changed.

Companies that want access to China's huge market have to pass some stringent requirements with that government. So really, all this info was available before the Morey episode.


The whole notion that the NBA should boycott China is somewhat laughable when you look at how pretty much everything in the US was made in China. Including clothes on most of our backs and whatever device you're using to read this. But the NBA is supposed to boycott them when the country sold out to them for cheap labor and products a long time ago and is up to our necks in debt to them. But for some reason the NBA is supposed to kneecap themselves and not sell their product to China.


That is not the point.

The point is China trying to censor our citizens with business blackmail.

That is more having global trade relationships with China.


Morey is free to say anything he wants, China has absolutely zero power to censor any US citizen. Oh, but it turns out he might just lose his job if he does. Same goes for the rest of us if we accept a job to represent a company and start saying things the boss or the clients don't like. Unfortunately freedom of speech has never meant freedom from consequences. Look at what happened to Kaepernick for exercising his freedom of speech and expression, it cost him his career. This is sometimes the price of taking a principled stand. If I went to work tomorrow and told the boss and clients exactly what I thought about them security would be escorting me out of the building, but I choose to not do that because I need to feed my family. Morey could have stood his ground taken a principled stand, but ultimately he also chose the money. It just demonstrates the limitations of freedom of speech everyone believes they have, but how many of us are willing or able to risk the consequences of using it?
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#171 » by knicksh20b » Wed Oct 9, 2019 4:44 am

1. China doesn't really care about Morey, considering Twitter is blocked in China anyway. But they do want to push their worldview, and they're very good at it, and will use economics to get that done. See how they've isolated Taiwan in the past few years.

2. It's related to their education and political legitimacy. Since childhood, everyone in China believes and is taught that HK and Taiwan are part of China. Letting those two places go is a symbol of weakness, and get the people mad at the party. Also, as long as they remain free, they're a threat to China. That mindset is really hard to let go of.

3. They don't want anyone more influential than Morey getting ideas about supporting Hong Kong.

4. It shores up political support at home. If you can blame the West or other parties for doing things that hurt the country, then people are less likely to get mad at a slowing economy or corruption or widening income inequality.

5. Very tempting to blame the NBA, but we also have a man in office right now that has promised China that he won't bring Hong Kong in the hopes of winning the trade war. The bigger issue is that the government and the world probably should get involved. It's not just HK/Taiwan, but a ton of people are locked in concentration camps in western China right now.
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Re: OT: Time claims Hong Kong as the new West Berlin 

Post#172 » by matchman » Wed Oct 9, 2019 5:42 am

knicksh20b wrote:1. China doesn't really care about Morey, considering Twitter is blocked in China anyway. But they do want to push their worldview, and they're very good at it, and will use economics to get that done. See how they've isolated Taiwan in the past few years.

2. It's related to their education and political legitimacy. Since childhood, everyone in China believes and is taught that HK and Taiwan are part of China. Letting those two places go is a symbol of weakness, and get the people mad at the party. Also, as long as they remain free, they're a threat to China. That mindset is really hard to let go of.

3. They don't want anyone more influential than Morey getting ideas about supporting Hong Kong.

4. It shores up political support at home. If you can blame the West or other parties for doing things that hurt the country, then people are less likely to get mad at a slowing economy or corruption or widening income inequality.

5. Very tempting to blame the NBA, but we also have a man in office right now that has promised China that he won't bring Hong Kong in the hopes of winning the trade war. The bigger issue is that the government and the world probably should get involved. It's not just HK/Taiwan, but a ton of people are locked in concentration camps in western China right now.


I think more and more people, including politicians and businessmen, start to realize the old model to work with PRC does not work well anymore. Or simply put, wrong assumptions.

During the 70s, US treats PRC as a player to backstab Soviet Union and to stir up the pot in the communist universe, and it worked well initially. I think the first big mistake is to relieve the trade embargo after Tiananmen Massacre. Before the "1989.6.4" incident I do get there is a false hope that PRC may become a more open state like that of Vietnam (now), which its country is led by Communist Party but not as totalitarian, but sorry after Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang steps down from power, that ship has gone.

And now Xi, he want to be the Chairman Mao 2.0, which is just madness and the novel "1984" has become his guidebook to rule the country. If the Western countries' leaders fail to recognize this and think it's only Hong Kong, Taiwan, Ugyhur, Tibet suffering, they may need to pay a hefty price for it.
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Re: OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA 

Post#173 » by Dantares » Wed Oct 9, 2019 5:57 am

So I am hearing that Elizabeth Warren as president would be much tougher on China than Trump currently is. Biden is considered soft on china. That quote biden had that China is not competition is going to be used against him during the primaries.

When the public becomes more aware of china's IP theft they will be enraged. Even the koch brothers had to stop their campaign against trump tariffs because it wasnt having an effect, everyone knows China is ripping us off. If Warren wins I hope she has the guts to decouple our econonies. I guarantee you once China sees that we are serious about decoupling other countries will start looking into doing the same thing and china will start playing fair.
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Re: OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA 

Post#174 » by matchman » Wed Oct 9, 2019 7:34 am

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Philadelphia-76ers-Sixers-Fan-Hong-Kong-Protests-Preseason-Game-Signs-562589301.html

As the NBA continues to deal with the fallout from an executive’s controversial tweet, a man says he and his wife were kicked out of a Philadelphia 76ers game after showing their support for protesters in Hong Kong.

Sam Wachs of Chestnut Hill and his wife attended Tuesday night’s preseason game between the Sixers and the Guangzhou Loong-Lions of the Chinese Basketball Association at the Wells Fargo Center.

Wachs told NBC10 he and his wife were holding up “Free Hong Kong” and “Free HK” signs in reference to the ongoing protests in Hong Kong. Wachs said he lived in Hong Kong for two years and supports the protesters’ movement.

“We were just sitting in our seats near the Chinese bench,” Wachs said.

As they were sitting, Wachs said security confiscated their signs. He then said they were kicked out of the game during the second quarter by security after they yelled, “Free Hong Kong.”

“We were saying, ‘Free Hong Kong,’’ Wachs told NBC10. “What’s wrong with that?”

NBC10 reached out to the 76ers for comment. We have not yet heard back from them.


We need more of this. :nod:
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Re: OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA 

Post#175 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Oct 9, 2019 8:41 am

NBA must be really greedy feeling they need to suck the d*ck of the CCP because "China has a big baskeball market".

I mean, it's nice to make money, but it's not like there is another NBA in the world if the Chinese people want to see the highest level basketball. Not to take anything away from leagues in Europe or South America, Mid East etc.

Feels like the NBA should have just a "little" leverage here, if, of course, their main goal wasn't shoveling as much cash as possible into their pockets.

Not unlike how NBA cozied up to organized gambling.

So, lets see....sin of gambling...bowing to authoritarians - A OK! Player gets caught smoking weed? BAD!

Guess some sins are just worse than others.
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Re: OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA 

Post#176 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Oct 9, 2019 8:44 am

Hopefully the Nets oligarch can smooth this all over
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Re: OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA 

Post#177 » by aq_ua » Wed Oct 9, 2019 8:48 am

thebuzzardman wrote:Hopefully the Nets oligarch can smooth this all over

Didn't China cancel the Nets event? Seems China could give two sh*ts about Joe Tsai.
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Re: OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA 

Post#178 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Oct 9, 2019 9:03 am

aq_ua wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Hopefully the Nets oligarch can smooth this all over

Didn't China cancel the Nets event? Seems China could give two sh*ts about Joe Tsai.


We shall see. I'm sure he's eager to make the Nets the #1 team there. Probably was a factor in KD signing there.
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Re: OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA 

Post#179 » by tuna108 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 9:11 am

aq_ua wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Hopefully the Nets oligarch can smooth this all over

Didn't China cancel the Nets event? Seems China could give two sh*ts about Joe Tsai.
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Re: OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA 

Post#180 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:36 pm

matchman wrote:https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Philadelphia-76ers-Sixers-Fan-Hong-Kong-Protests-Preseason-Game-Signs-562589301.html

As the NBA continues to deal with the fallout from an executive’s controversial tweet, a man says he and his wife were kicked out of a Philadelphia 76ers game after showing their support for protesters in Hong Kong.

Sam Wachs of Chestnut Hill and his wife attended Tuesday night’s preseason game between the Sixers and the Guangzhou Loong-Lions of the Chinese Basketball Association at the Wells Fargo Center.

Wachs told NBC10 he and his wife were holding up “Free Hong Kong” and “Free HK” signs in reference to the ongoing protests in Hong Kong. Wachs said he lived in Hong Kong for two years and supports the protesters’ movement.

“We were just sitting in our seats near the Chinese bench,” Wachs said.

As they were sitting, Wachs said security confiscated their signs. He then said they were kicked out of the game during the second quarter by security after they yelled, “Free Hong Kong.”

“We were saying, ‘Free Hong Kong,’’ Wachs told NBC10. “What’s wrong with that?”

NBC10 reached out to the 76ers for comment. We have not yet heard back from them.


We need more of this. :nod:


Yes, if the fans at MSG start chanting Free Hong Kong the NBA's fate will be sealed and China will know it made the wrong move.

Make it happen peeps

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